LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

[Astrella]

Hello,

just wanted to drop by and say that I'm probably gonna meet with the social counsellor at my university this week to talk about things and help me find a support group for my gender issues.

[KenderWizard]

What I find most puzzling is the sudden switch from "you couldn't possibly be a girl and feel like a boy" to "if you feel like a boy then you are and shouldn't be in the girls' toilets". They're both quite... if not insulting, then somewhat antagonistic, but from completely opposite ends. So maybe it averages out to acceptable?

I was thinking the same thing! Really, if it had been phrased in a less antagonistic way, the entire episode would have been an uplifting journey of one girl's short, but important, struggle towards understanding of trans issues. Starting out with confusion and questions, and ending deciding it would be more fair for the guy to use the men's bathrooms.

Hello,

just wanted to drop by and say that I'm probably gonna meet with the social counsellor at my university this week to talk about things and help me find a support group for my gender issues.

Support is good! I hope you find a group that you feel welcome and safe in!

[unosarta]

^: apparently the girl phrased it in a sort of antagonistic way (actually, one of the people who works for Out4Good, the LGBT program in my school district, said the exact same thing you said), and it seemed like she wasn't trying to understand this guy's position. :/

Not really. Why would a bisexual want to stay with someone who is homophobic?

He isn't actively homophobic. He doesn't have problems with gay people (although he is still trying to understand trans people), he just uses words like that in the context of meaning "bad" or "dumb." Which is, in and of itself, stupid and hardly understanding, but if I were to not be friends with anyone who said gay in that context, I would have to stop being friends with half of the friends I have who aren't LGBT.

I know what you mean. If I had a child, and that child told me xe was transgender I would be very concerned. Not because it's unnatural or weird or anything like that, but because it's a difficult life.

The only thing I can really do is say "These people are not speaking for me" and offer hugs. Boycott stores that are hostile to LGBTA (very rare in Sweden, fortunately and do what I can on election day...

*hugs*

This girl in specific who left her denomination was Bi, if I recall correctly. But yeah, it was really sad. She had a really cool story of talking to a little girl she knew who went to said denomination whose parents were a little bit... unsavory. The girl came up to her and asked her if she was dating a girl (she was on facebook), and she said, "well... yes, I am."

The little girl said "cool!" and hugged her. It was really sweet, according to this person, and it really seemed like it. But the atmosphere in the place was really toxic, so she felt like she had to leave.

[Lissou]

if I were to not be friends with anyone who said gay in that context, I would have to stop being friends with half of the friends I have who aren't LGBT.

I have a friend(ish. We're not that close) who is gay and uses the word "gay" to mean "stupid" all the time. I told him it bugs me, but he shrugged and said what he meant was obvious, that language evolves and that I was stuck up.

In some way I kinda get it (dumb is an insult now, but we don't take it as insulting mute people even though it mean mute. Same with lame and handicapped people) but on the other hand gay people are still trying to get accepted and it doesn't help to associate them with something negative that's completely unrelated.

[Astrella]

I have a friend(ish. We're not that close) who is gay and uses the word "gay" to mean "stupid" all the time. I told him it bugs me, but he shrugged and said what he meant was obvious, that language evolves and that I was stuck up.

Eh, he can talk about language evolving all he wants, but if you said it bugs you and asked him not to do it, him not stopping is just disrespectful.

[Mina Kobold]

All this tudh meanings of gay is me a tad tallth, but just remember to always be gay and jolly and everything will end up naught but silly.

Silly olde English aside, the reason dumb implies lack of intelligence is because it is used as "Like a mute" which implies that one is not dumb but still acts as if one were.

Thus the insult of gay would mean:

a: To be acting like Pinkie Pie despite being Fluttershy.

or

b: To act like one is attracted to the opposite sex despite being heterosexual.

And thus I can conclude that some people really have a problem with hyperactive ponies. Those poor souls.

[Dire Moose]

The girl came up to her and asked her if she was dating a girl (she was on facebook), and she said, "well... yes, I am."

The little girl said "cool!" and hugged her. It was really sweet, according to this person, and it really seemed like it.

D'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[rayne_dragon]

He isn't actively homophobic. He doesn't have problems with gay people (although he is still trying to understand trans people), he just uses words like that in the context of meaning "bad" or "dumb." Which is, in and of itself, stupid and hardly understanding, but if I were to not be friends with anyone who said gay in that context, I would have to stop being friends with half of the friends I have who aren't LGBT.

I know people like this too. They aren't homophobic at all, but they do tend to misuse words in a way that sometimes (okay, most of the time) makes you want to slap them. Funny thing was one of the people I knew who was most prolific in his misuse of the term had two bisexual roommates.

I don't actually know if that's funny.

Strange... this whole thing has me wondering what Oscar Wilde would think of society these days.

[Serpentine]

"You're all a bunch of limp-wristed pansies. Harden the **** up".

...except 3 times as long and 100 times as classy.

[rayne_dragon]

"...Harden the **** up".

Was the double-entendre intentional? I'm rather amused by the idea of Oscar Wilde walking into a modern gay bar and saying that to some random guy.

[SaintRidley]

Strange... this whole thing has me wondering what Oscar Wilde would think of society these days.

To branch off Serp's idea...


You all carry on like the most delightfully empty-headed young dandies, never sparing a thought for thought's sake; most unfortunately, however, you do so with far less of the simple and beautiful ignorance of our fine friend but with all the brutish expressivity of the lowliest sort of man, one who peddles for money what he could refine into beauty.


I feel like that one goes round about things enough to approach him, anyway.

[Serpentine]

Was the double-entendre intentional?

Works in retrospect, but it's a fairly common phrase 'round these parts. Dunno about elsewhere.

[Coidzor]

Eh, he can talk about language evolving all he wants, but if you said it bugs you and asked him not to do it, him not stopping is just disrespectful.

Well, of course, he dismissed her as being stuck up. Being disrespectful was the entirety of his response to her.

but if I were to not be friends with anyone who said gay in that context, I would have to stop being friends with half of the friends I have who aren't LGBT.

Then why is this kind of story shocking if your friends act the way they do?

I have a friend(ish. We're not that close) who is gay and uses the word "gay" to mean "stupid" all the time. I told him it bugs me, but he shrugged and said what he meant was obvious, that language evolves and that I was stuck up.

Well, no, he's definitely not a friend if he dismisses good points and you by saying you're stuck up. And really doesn't put his best foot forward with that stance anyway. It's the kind of bad habit that is not good for first impressions. Or last ones...

[SMEE]

I posted quite a while ago about coming out of the closet, and then being doubted by everyone I know. I was advised to explain to my friends why that's not okay, and it turns out they had no idea what they were talking about and were willing to get educated. I was happy to oblige them in this by bringing them along to a workshop, and they are accepting me and others now. Thanks to all who helped me. :)

New mail.

[Coidzor]

Glad that your explanations worked and everything seems to be working out well for you on this front. Hope the skies stay clear for you.

[unosarta]

Then why is this kind of story shocking if your friends act the way they do?

Because her boyfriend is doing it, and because she has explained to him that she is bisexual, and he still doesn't seem to be getting it. All of the friends I have who use the term (there aren't altogether that many of them) I am not out to.

[Qaera]

So at the GSA meeting, we looked at a lot of statistics mostly regarding homeless LGBT youth and about 25% of kids that come out to their parents are told they must leave home.
Chances of me coming out in high school dropping.

[unosarta]

Not everyone has that happen to them. My parents are super accepting, and they are completely fine with my sexuality.

I think it depends a lot on your parents themselves, and their views on sexuality/gender/what have you. Just because 25% of high school students who come out to their parents get kicked out (which totally doesn't surprise me; I know several people who would be kicked out if they came out to their parents, and one guy who actually was) doesn't necessarily mean you will be.

[Qaera]

Welp, both of my parents are hyper-religious for different reasons so I would probably be in that percentile. Like, when I joined the GSA my parents just assumed I was the straight part and interested in the anti-bullying bit, which I am, but also it's fun to hang out with birds of a feather and learn about LGBT stuff and such. They didn't even consider the alternative so... Yeah.

[Asta Kask]

Has anybody read Carmilla, about a lesbian vampire and her prey? Is it any good?

[rayne_dragon]

Has anybody read Carmilla, about a lesbian vampire and her prey? Is it any good?

I haven't read it myself, but I do recall hearing lots of good things about it. Which probably doesn't help much, but now that you've mentioned it I kinda want to read it myself.

Welp, both of my parents are hyper-religious for different reasons so I would probably be in that percentile. Like, when I joined the GSA my parents just assumed I was the straight part and interested in the anti-bullying bit, which I am, but also it's fun to hang out with birds of a feather and learn about LGBT stuff and such. They didn't even consider the alternative so... Yeah.

That does sound like there's some possibility of that in your case, but by no means does that mean that their reaction would be garunteed to be kicking you out. High School isn't exactly the best time to come out anyways; most people have some growing up still to do, you're dependant on other people a lot more, you're not old enough to go to any of the fun places, etc. Now I'm not saying that I think people should never come out in high school, just that you're rather limited in options until later in life, anyways.

Works in retrospect, but it's a fairly common phrase 'round these parts. Dunno about elsewhere.

Yeah, fairly common phrase here too, it just startled me by how it sounded given the context.

[Qaera]

That does sound like there's some possibility of that in your case, but by no means does that mean that their reaction would be garunteed to be kicking you out. High School isn't exactly the best time to come out anyways; most people have some growing up still to do, you're dependant on other people a lot more, you're not old enough to go to any of the fun places, etc. Now I'm not saying that I think people should never come out in high school, just that you're rather limited in options until later in life, anyways.

True, GMH, thanks.

[Coidzor]

Because her boyfriend is doing it, and because she has explained to him that she is bisexual, and he still doesn't seem to be getting it. All of the friends I have who use the term (there aren't altogether that many of them) I am not out to.

Still, the point is that these are the people who are high enough quality for you to befriend despite this handicap of them being casually homophobic. To an outside observer such as myself, listening to your description of the people in the place where you live would seem to suggest that the general atmosphere of where you live is not exactly a positive one vis a vis LGBT.

[unosarta]

Still, the point is that these are the people who are high enough quality for you to befriend despite this handicap of them being casually homophobic. To an outside observer such as myself, listening to your description of the people in the place where you live would seem to suggest that the general atmosphere of where you live is not exactly a positive one vis a vis LGBT.

It depends. I don't think any of the schools in my area are really "perfect" in that sense, and my school is certainly the best. However, most of the time I hear comments like that, they are actually not even at my school (at least when the source of such a comment is a friend- I hear it commonly at school, although not altogether that much), but at the location where I fence. I think the largest there is that there isn't a lot of exposure; most of the kids who are at my club go to schools in the suburbs, and although I definitely don't want to stereotype every suburb in my state, they definitely tend to be a lot more homophobic/racist/bigoted in general.

[Peanut Gallery]

I can't even imagine parents that would disown their kid like that. I mean, my parents weren't at all supportive of gay rights at the beginning but I think that's because they didn't know any better. After dealing with me, I like to think they've gotten better. Or they're just too polite to say anything negative within my hearing.

But, geeze, I mean I could try to murder them and they'd still come visit me in jail to tell me they still loved me and that they were trying to get me out so I could take anger management classes or something. Their love is just so unconditional.

[Serpentine]

My mum is very religious, and thinks that according to her religion homosexuality is a sin, but isn't very certain about that and believes that hating them for it and stuff like that is a much bigger sin. Last time I asked she was of the "bisexuals are just greedy" pursuasion, unfortunately...
After my sister and her ex broke up, she had a bit of a thing with another girl. Her ex, apparently believing our mum would be outraged, called her up and dobbed her in for having a lesbian relationship.
Mum's response was to call my sister and tell her that if something's going on in her life, she can tell her.

So yeah. I think my mum might be a bit disappointed if one of us was gay, but that's about it.

edit: Something that kinda tickled my fancy

Spoiler

Show

[celtois]

Hey I though this might tickle your fancy. Here in Albertan high-schools we have a mandatory course called CALM (Career and Life Management) you have to take it to graduate.

Part of its curriculum is informing students about GLBT individuals, promoting their rights and encouraging the students not to be bigoted against member of the GLBT community.

It's little wonder I've never seen a gay kid at my school being bullied. It would interesting to see if this trend holds across the rest of urban Alberta, country schools I'm pretty sure don't have CALM.

[Astrella]

Hello,

just wanted to drop by and say that I'm probably gonna meet with the social counsellor at my university this week to talk about things and help me find a support group for my gender issues.

Urgh, so I'm being a coward and didn't call to make an appointment today. Oh well, I still have tomorrow, hopefully I can bring up the courage then.

[Coidzor]

Urgh, so I'm being a coward and didn't call to make an appointment today. Oh well, I still have tomorrow, hopefully I can bring up the courage then.

DO EET! Can you.

[Astrella]

DO EET! Can you.

Can't see it in my country.