Melee Centric Factotum or a tank build that rocks

[TheFallenSon]

Trying to make a tank that is a bit fun to play. Looking at a number of things, but Factotum has interested me for a while now.

What would be a good set up for a level 6 base? Stats rolled are 18, 17, 17, 16, 14, 13. I have access to Dungeonscape, complete adventurer, warrior, mage, arcane, scoundrel, the PHB2 and UA.

I would like to have something to help support our two weapon fighting half orc in melee. He tends to do huge amounts of damage then gets overwhelmed by multiple enemies. I have thought about using fighter with dungeon crasher and maybe paladin for the divine grace. I'm not to afraid of MAD as this DM is kinda loose with the treasure and GP awarded.

My biggest problem I guess is needing this guy to be capable of surviving as the off tank, or as the primary and pulling attention to himself. Thanks for any help.

[term1nally s1ck]

WHat do you mean by 'Tank'.

Do you want a guy who is beefy, hits hard, and is very very hard to hurt?

Or do you want a guy who can actually prevent his teammates from being hit?

[TheFallenSon]

The beefy one.

I think that is what will benefit the party the most in the end. Currently we have a rogue/cleric/legendary captain, twf fighter, and a Wizard/fighter headed towards arcane archer.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

IMO the most reliable way to prevent enemies from attacking your allies is by going first and killing them.

To that end, if you really want a powerful tank, dump all your feats into font of inspiration. Go Factotum 8/Warblade X. Cast wraithstrike as a swift action, move up to your unfortunate foe, and then pummel him with strike after strike using Cunning Surge to get extra standard actions until you run out of strikes or (more likely) he's dead. Belt of Battle for extra move actions (moving to the next victim) works well here.

Perhaps you want lower optimization. If that's the case I'd drop the FoI; dropping that makes pure Factotum look more appealing (higher level casting). I'd still prep wraithstrike. Using spells for defense is probably your best bet - see Blink, Mirror Image, Invisibility and their Greater counterparts. Try to use your spells on swift/immediate action buffs like you're gish, and probably some utility as well.

[term1nally s1ck]

Ok. Since you're starting at level 6, I'd probably recommend Druid. With Wildshape and an Animal companion, you're gonna be perfectly at home in melee, provide a good source of casting and healing, which you kind of lack atm (all your casters multiclassed), and you can help out your party in a lot of ways.

I'd say go Human for the bonus feat, and grab Extend Spell for buffs, Natural Spell so you can cast while morphed, and Natural Bond so you can take one of the optional companions (with the level penalty) and still get all the bonuses for it.

Here's a handbook, including a list of good spells.

[TheFallenSon]

Thanks for the advice, I hadn't even considered the whole druid thing.

And as for warblade...no ToB the DM is afraid of that particular book.

If I stayed with Factotum, is their a way to make it more fighterish and realitively effective? Like a combat expertise line fighter? Would that be effective?

[Human Paragon 3]

Sure is!

Get Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain and go for a tripping build. Putting all the enemies on their backs will definitely help out your fighter friend. There are many tripping builds around that are easy to find. Get improved trip, combat reflexes and enlarge yourself (Easy for Factotum, just cast Enlarge Person on yourself or take a crafting feat and brew your own potions of it).

Brains over Brawn gives you +Int to all dex and strength checks, including opposed trip checks, and with your stat array (and the enlarge) you will have no trouble putting down most opponents. You will probably go first most of the time too, since initiative is a dex check and with your stats, you will have good dex (and add your Int to it, most likely getting +7 or +8 initiative). Use that first round to enlarge yourself then go to town.

[term1nally s1ck]

Factotum works fine, you could just grab feats and things that improve your melee. Get Knowledge Devotion from CChamp, use a reach weapon, and get Improved Trip, and stuff like Knockdown. A Fighter or Barbarian can do it just as well, though..

The thing is, Factotum is mostly a nova-class. You explode in the first round or two, do a ton of damage, and then don't do that much after. YOu seem to want more of a consistent unstoppable force type of guy.

[Human Paragon 3]

Complete Champ isn't one of the books he listed, but that is a great feat choice.

[Eldariel]

Ok now, let's assess your needs for real. You have

Rogue/Cleric/Legendary Captain

Whatever this provides you is not high level divine casting. The multiclassing means he'll never access those spells though he can use spell completion items. He's also a combat capable character. So basically:
- Divine Spell Completion & Trigger Items Items (potentially also arcane items; Use Magic Device is a class skill)
- Low-Level Cleric Spells
- Skills (potentially Trapfinding too)
- Underlings (that's what Legendary Captain is about; a lot could be outsourced in the future)
- Melee (Rogue gets damage bonus, Cleric is a respectable melee class and so is Legendary Leader)

TWF Fighter

Very clear-cut, this provides you with a burly frontliner that does some damage.
- Melee
- HP Pool (though no healing)

A Wizard/fighter headed towards arcane archer.

Again very clear, this provides you with a Fighter with token Wizard spells. Arcane Archer does not advance spellcasting so don't expect any impressive spells from this.
- Ranged Combat
- Arcane Spell Completion & Trigger Items (Wands, Scrolls)
- Low-Level Arcane spells


It seems very clear to me that what you need is not just another frontliner but a spellcaster who gains access to high level spells (especially keys like Heal, Restoration, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Air Walk/Fly and such). You could really use both. Cleric and Druid are both, out of the box, more than capable of fulfilling both roles fighting just as well as a Fighter (and with spells, probably harder to kill) while also getting access to high level magic.

I would definitely play a straight Druid, as suggested before. It can also cover some of the skills the Rogue misses out on (I don't think anyone else will cover the naturey skills, though Arcane Archer might but they're not class skills until he actually enters Arcane Archer; in any event, Druid has Diplomacy, Knowledges and all the good stuff) and provides you with two meatshields (your animal companion and you yourself) alongside curative magic (Lesser Restoration, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, etc.) and some offensive spells (Sleet Storm, Entangle, Soften Earth and Stone, etc.).

Druid is really sort of a mix between divine and arcane magic (getting a good half of the important divine spells, and some effects with the power level of arcane spells), which is just what you need since otherwise you'll miss out on high level spells from both sides (since both your spellcasters are taking classes that don't advance spellcasting).

So it would cover everything you're missing currently.

[TheFallenSon]

Ya'll make a very good point with the complete lack of caster. Thanks for the advice.

[Zonugal]

An other idea to go along with Eldariel is to play a combat-heavy wizard/sorcerer who uses spells like Fist of Stone and Alter Self (as to get into Dwarven Ancestor; it's online...) to be a force to be reckoned with in the battlefield. As opposed to a Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6 (who is very good at their job), with the wizard build you could literally being magically-creating a mech-suit around you. Walking around with a +18 natural armor bonus, smashing guys to bits and with the proper reserve feats throwing fire bombs 30 ft from you.

[Draz74]

I don't know if it covers your party's needs in composition, but I do like the idea of playing a Factotum with Improved Trip, with those stats.

18 INT, 17 STR, 17 CON, 16 DEX, 14 WIS, 13 CHA ... delicious.