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  1. - Top - End - #301
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Yeah, that sounds about right. I've been out of internet service and I'm currently procrastinating on homework, so I'll get to that later. But yes, I like that idea better than some generic relationship. (haha, oxymoron).
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Taking a short break from both fluff and vestiges, I'm now looking at what subsystems to include support for. I've pretty much decided that Binders are in, but there's more. I'm compiling a whitelist of online ToB disciplines that fit thematically, but there's one that got me thinking. Sleeping Goddess tries to combine Psionics and ToB, which seems interesting. But... we don't have any confirmation on psionics yet.

    What I'm asking you, denizens of the playgound, is whether you believe Psionics, whether in their entirety or just certain classes, should be included in the land of Patria. I'm leaning towards "sort of", but I'd like your thoughts.
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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I shall think and come back to you on it.

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Here's a list of some of the Pros and Cons of psionics, in my opinion, to the extent that they apply to Patria.

    Pros:
    Good Balance,
    Helps cover some archetypes (PsyWar as a monk alternative, creepy little girl who blows stuff up with her mind as a psion, etc.)
    Very, very good system, with augmenting being a solid plus. Intuitive, too.
    Can be fairly easily refluffed.
    Fun? That's about it.

    Cons:
    Psion is fairly high-powered, although maybe not more so than the Mage classes. Definite Tier 1/2.
    Highish-magic/fantasy. Seriously, crystals as a major structural component? leaping through time? Eating brains? Having a pet crystal with little spindly legs that thinks for you? Creating demiplanes? All noes. You'll notice that I removed all the similar wizard spells while making the Mages.
    Very much not in keeping with the flavor, to use the default fluff. Too much astral plane, time-screwing, body-trading nonsense.


    Final Notes: System is good, fluff is not. But I don't want to refluff it... already did that with countless vestiges, and the mages. I'm pretty much tired of changing fluff around to salvage a workable system.

    I might just make a banlist of powers, classes, etc and try to make some sweeping refluffs (dorjes are now able to be made of any material, not just crystal, etc.)
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  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Sorry, was without a computer for a while.

    I'm a fan of the psionics system myself, but I do agree that the fluff doesn't fit well if you run with the default. Mind you, it's fairly easy to make it your own, and The ban-list of powers is a good start. I doubt that there's anything I can suggest that will be of much help with the refluffing.

    Alternately, you could have it so that psionics (or whateveryour world calls it) is more powerful that the widely used magic. However, the only way to gain the fluff-breaking powers, you must burn a feat (and you can't get the 9th level banned powers until you are at least epic levels provided it gets that far.) You don't have to use this, but it's food for thought.

    On that note, I've been working on implementing a new 'magic' system to my game world called allomancy, if you are interested in including that instead of or in addition to anything already existing.
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I'm a fan of the psionics system myself, but I do agree that the fluff doesn't fit well if you run with the default. Mind you, it's fairly easy to make it your own, and The ban-list of powers is a good start. I doubt that there's anything I can suggest that will be of much help with the refluffing.
    I think I'll start with a Ban-List and move on to some ideas for how players can refluff various powers.


    Alternately, you could have it so that psionics (or whatever your world calls it) is more powerful that the widely used magic. However, the only way to gain the fluff-breaking powers, you must burn a feat (and you can't get the 9th level banned powers until you are at least epic levels provided it gets that far.) You don't have to use this, but it's food for thought.
    This, aside from the first sentence, if pretty interesting. Would you suggest having access to each new level of powers require a feat, or what?

    On that note, I've been working on implementing a new 'magic' system to my game world called allomancy, if you are interested in including that instead of or in addition to anything already existing.
    I might be. I'll look at the link in your sig.
    Guess who's good at avatars? Thormag. That's who.

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  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Possibly. My original idea was that you had a list of powers for each level that you always had access to, aka the whitelist. Then, if you want something off the 'ban-list', you have to take a feat. This feat will give you a single power (subject to DMs approval) from the ban-list, up to one level lower than what you can manifest. There then would be an epic version that allowed you to use level 9 ban-list powers. Here's examples of my thought process.

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    Forbidden Knowledge [General, Psionic]
    Months of meditation and self-discovery has uncovered a dire power within you.
    Benefit: You may learn one ban-list power of any level up to one level lower than the highest-level power you can manifest. For example, a 7th-level psion gains either a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd-level ban-list power
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. It's effects stack.

    Epic Forbidden Knowledge [General, Psionic, Epic]
    Years of focusing your power has created a powerful new ability within you.
    Requirements: Manifester level 21
    Benefit: You may learn one ban-list power of any level up to the highest-level power you can cast.
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. It's effects stack.


    Honestly, I haven't posted it in Tallal quite yet since I'm still working on the crunchy bits, but I'll post something about it here in a moment, just for you.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Just got back stateside after a lengthy tour of duty. After flaking out several times, I should be able to contribute once more. Assuming I am still welcome. :p

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Welcome back, Arathnos, good to have you.

    I like those feats, Byzantine, but it feels like the whole point of a banlist is to, y'know, ban things. If I allow people to take a feat to start making demiplanes it kinda ruins the whole "no demiplanes" rule. And I was about to ask about the allomancy thing, so thanks. Can't wait to see it.
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  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I think with refluffing and a ban-list psionics would be completely workable. Sorry about not participating as much as I was, college apps are due very soon and I've been working on those a bunch.

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Yeah, I've been doing the same. I'll finish off the vestiges and then get to that.
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    It's just a thought. I like giving my players options about these sorts of things. Perhaps three lists: THe 'no way in hell' list (banned completely), the 'not in your dreams' list (black list that the feats use) and the 'okay you can have it' list (th white list). That said, I specialize in feats, races and classes, so if you need help with those, I should be able to do it a bit easier than the legends thing. (Oh right, the legends...)

    I've posted a decent deal about allomancy in the Magic thread on my forum, as well as a link to the wiki with the original concept. I'm still working on it, since it's a conversion, but I hope that you'll like what you see.
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  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine View Post
    It's just a thought. I like giving my players options about these sorts of things. Perhaps three lists: THe 'no way in hell' list (banned completely), the 'not in your dreams' list (black list that the feats use) and the 'okay you can have it' list (th white list). That said, I specialize in feats, races and classes, so if you need help with those, I should be able to do it a bit easier than the legends thing. (Oh right, the legends...)
    Yeah, that's probably a better idea than just saying no to everything. Speaking of specializing in races... I've yet to lay out the details of the races. Give me a little bit and I'll do that.

    I've posted a decent deal about allomancy in the Magic thread on my forum, as well as a link to the wiki with the original concept. I'm still working on it, since it's a conversion, but I hope that you'll like what you see.
    Ooooohhhhhh... I like it. Fairly bare-bones in the way of crunch, but it could go a long way. Lots of potential there. I hope you don't mind breaking away from the books canon in the interest of balance.
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  14. - Top - End - #314
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I'll be happy to help out with the races when you are ready. I'm still refining my first race, but that's partly because they're monstrous humanoid with a level adjustment. These shouldn't be nearly as hard.

    The general rule I have about magic in books is that the main characters are heroic, i.e. level 6 and above, where the power level begins really ramping up. In general, it's fairly easy to keep things balanced with allomancy. It's something that already balances out with it's own drawbacks and a reliance on the laws of physics. I'm working on the crunch slowly with a friend of mine, but I'm considering posting something here about it. (In fact, I should go do that now.)

    At the very least, allomancy lacks the ability to alter the world with inexplicable powers from some occult source.
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  15. - Top - End - #315
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Byzantine-Once we get a decent and balanced system playtested, I'll finalize details on Allomancy's in-world support. We can figure out a way to pull this off really smoothly, I can tell. I'm tempted to make it a dwarf thing, but I know that they aren't the Tolkienian miners of every other setting, so it doesn't make much sense. Logically, it makes sense for Allomancy to be centered in areas with mines and other sources of metals, but I haven't really decided where that is yet. Llanca has some (one city in the Dotze Affariata), but that's about it. Oh well.

    Now, the question turns to what support there should be for other subsystems. Psionics are a tentative yes, but I'd still like Eldest and Arathnos to weigh in on this. ToB stuff is in to whatever degree the DM sees fit, including a growing whitelist of homebrewed disciplines (if you know of a good one, hook a worldbuilda up. I might already have checked it out, but maybe not).

    There's some other systems that beg my attention, however. Incarnum is one. It's decently balanced, I guess. Totemist is pure Urgal, and the Lightwood Rangers probably have a couple among them. I suppose the eight-armed beasts are in. Soulborn....I like substantially less. Without any gods (real ones, anyway) or paladins, their whole shtick has no tree to grow off of. Incarnates are in the same boat. Without objective morality to base the entire concept behind the class off of, they're without a paddle. I think I have at least four awful metaphors in that paragraph.

    RE: Binders: See the seven levels of vestiges I've done, and get back to me. (Protip: They're in.)

    Truenamers hold a special place in my heart. I think the fluff is pretty decent, and I love them like I love adopting puppies who were born without any limbs. They're cute, but can't really do a whole lot. If someone wants to play one, sure. I'll even let the Owl Clan and some Dotze Affariata university be their Paragnostic Assembly.

    I think that's all. Feel free to weigh in.
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I'll look through the SRD's list of Psionics powers and see what I think you might consider banning. When I have time. So either Sunday (college app, nvm) or the next week (everyone decided to have tests)...
    Let's just say that's on my to-do list.
    Also, I think you could make something like the Martial Dabbler in spirit, if not in fact. A PRC for fightin' (wo)men to try out TOB.
    I personally like the idea of Incarnum, but I haven't looked at any of the classes in depth.
    For Truenamers, you could probably throw a stone on the homebrewing forum and find three fixes, one of which you might like.

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  17. - Top - End - #317
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    THe allomancy system is coming along nicely, at least with the basic 8 metals. Perhaps gnomes for allomancy? Or perhaps it's a freak mutation among the urgals? Another possibility is that it arose not from one race, but from the union of one or more. Maybe a half-urgal dwarf married a half-elf and the kid was a mistborn? Just tossing out thoughts, though that last one makes me giggle.

    I like psionics myself, but I already put in my two copper, so I'll shut my yap about it now.

    Incarnum is interesting, and no one ever said that you can't cut out the other classes that don't work (even if it only really leaves totemist). Perhaps it would be better if you limit it like this for your world. It gives the urgals a unique culture to bring to the table, a power that no other group is 'primitive' enough to consider.

    I don't know much about the ToB and ToM stuff, and even less that's helpful. I do enjoy the shadow magic stuff from ToM, though.

    They're 3rd edition, but I suggest looking at the Encyclopaedia Arcane. Star Magic is particularly interesting.
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  18. - Top - End - #318
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine View Post
    Incarnum is interesting, and no one ever said that you can't cut out the other classes that don't work (even if it only really leaves totemist). Perhaps it would be better if you limit it like this for your world. It gives the urgals a unique culture to bring to the table, a power that no other group is 'primitive' enough to consider.
    Seconding the "urgals only" thing for totemists. It gives them a nice touch.
    Maybe something similar for other races?

  19. - Top - End - #319
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I do enjoy the shadow magic stuff from ToM, though.

    They're 3rd edition, but I suggest looking at the Encyclopaedia Arcane. Star Magic is particularly interesting.
    I knew I was forgetting something. Shadowcasters can play too, if they're nice, and don't go into the whole "plane of shadow" thing. If they can refluff themselves as fey-based or mist-based, then wonderful. I'm not familiar with the Encyclopaedia Arcane, but I'll look it up. is it 3rd party? Also, I do think the idea about the gnomes being tied to Allomancy is worth considering. They live in a region fairly high in metals, although I was hoping to make them somewhat animistic/shamanistic. Oh well. We have Urgals for that.

    I landed on Kellus's fix for truenamers, which I rather like.

    I think that's all for now. I'll get some non-DnD stuff done, then get the last vestiges up. The end is in sight...
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  20. - Top - End - #320
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Yeah, they're third party. Mongoose Publishing, Encyclopaedia Arcane series. They also have an Encyclopaedia Divine series. Mongoose Publishing has some good books, but mostly, I use them for themes and such. Star Magic - Wisdom of the Magi, for example, I used to define the culture of a race I made that believed that their goddess and the secrets of magic lay within the stars. Some other gems are Nymphology - Blue Magic (snerk), Crossbreeding - Flesh and Blood and Blood Magic - Oaths and Sacrifices.

    On the allomancy-gnome thing, it could still be a animistic/shamanistic society. It could simply be focused on the spirit and element of metal (wu jen anyone?). After all, if contact with metal gives them power, there has to be some sort of power to the metal, right?
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  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyntonian View Post
    I landed on Kellus's fix for truenamers, which I rather like.
    Told you so.

    Also, I do think the idea about the gnomes being tied to Allomancy is worth considering. They live in a region fairly high in metals, although I was hoping to make them somewhat animistic/shamanistic. Oh well. We have Urgals for that.
    What other races would need something that's exclusive for them, then? Or do you not want to do that?

  22. - Top - End - #322
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Well, there's humans and dwarves. Humans have the ability to, y'know, be by far the most dominant species, use the Mage/mageborn classes (although everyone else can, I suppose), not be killed/attacked on sight (Urgals), sold into slavery in two of four countries (Gnomes), or be completely out of place (Dwarves). In general, they just fit, period. That's a benefit right there.

    Dwarves... are harder. To paraphrase a previous post, they're rural, woodsy, hunter-trapper types who distill something that only someone already very drunk would consider to be drinkable alcohol. They have a propensity to use spears for hunting and war (can use spears one-handed), have no natural hair, (see: fur trappers. Let nobody say I assign occupations arbitrarily.) And don't live in under-mountain mine-cities.

    They have rather friendly relationships with gnomes, some of whom escape the slavers to their south and the Urgals to their north to get into the deep backwoods where the Dwarves live. They don't have much of a political structure, mostly because I've yet to give them one.

    Many of them live in 2-5 family settlements, with small fields and gardens and access to trap lines and room for hunting parties, who supply most of their meat. They sell skins and furs to the Vallheim and Soleh, in return for manufactured goods. They rarely need to trade for worked metals, as enough skilled gnomes make it north that they have roughly one or two small families attached to most settlements, usually including a smith. They have pretty powerful prejudices against magic, and have some suspicions that others would see as odd.

    Really....I don't know where to go for them. Truenaming isn't really right, Binding is something everyone has, Totemists are an Urgal thing, they don't like magic-users (Why? I dunno. Good question.) and I can't think of anything to help them be unique.
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  23. - Top - End - #323
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    A divine forest magic person...
    I swear I wrote that without thinking of the druid. REALLY!

  24. - Top - End - #324
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Well, I do have druids, they're just a little nerfed. I've lopped off all the spells from 7th level up and given them the Bard's progression for spells. Wildshape and such are left alone. I imagine them being less "rabid hippie dream-vision quest neutrality god of fleshrakers" and more "Ol' Bill down the way who has a pet bayur. He kin turn inter a bayur too, ohn owkayshun". I made Dwarves into rural southerners from Huck Finn. And I'm ok with it.
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  25. - Top - End - #325
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Update for ya, Wyn: Allomancy is officially ready for playtesting, now that I have completed the Misting template. The Mistborn template will soon follow (it's really not much different, over all), and I think the PrCs can wait for a while while I refine the workings of the system.
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  26. - Top - End - #326
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    YAY! A new system! I'll check it out. Consider it to be tentatively associated with gnomes. I'm really starting to run out of things to nail down before making a legitimate post as a for-realsies setting. Any suggestions?
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Hm... defining the races (racial traits, at least), defining the trade relations, the calander, maybe a few landmarks. Pretty much, if you can pull a concept that you need to nail down from Tallal's data-dump forum, then feel free to bounce things back and forth.

    Also, I'm editing the misting template. I forgot to put in the stuff about determining your maximum allomantic reserve.
    My schedule is fairly irregular, but I tend towards the later hours of the day.

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  28. - Top - End - #328
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Wyntonian's Avatar

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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Wait...I got it. A map. That's what I need. The one I have still uses American geography, which I decided to edit rather thoroughly to make it more better. I still like the concept of the First People, but I'm not married to it. Any other suggestions?
    Guess who's good at avatars? Thormag. That's who.

    A Campaign Setting more than a year in the making, Patria!

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Byzantine's Avatar

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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    Hm... Langauges? After all, language barriers are the best barriers.
    My schedule is fairly irregular, but I tend towards the later hours of the day.

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  30. - Top - End - #330
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

    I do have those. Tala for the Vallheim, based primarily on Icelandic, Sunshani for, you guessed it, Sunshan, something I can't remember the name of for Soleh, which I'm thinking of basing off Latin (as my least-fluffed country, I've been considering making them somewhat Roman. Thoughts?), another language whose name I can't remember for the Dotze Affariata, and a trader's pidgin used up and down the coast. I'll dive into the archive looking for exact names.
    Guess who's good at avatars? Thormag. That's who.

    A Campaign Setting more than a year in the making, Patria!

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