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    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Arse end of nowhere, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default [3.5 Base] Bruce Lee goes D&D PEACH!

    OK, this is version 2.0 of The Open Palm. I've not touched this for ages but it's been pestering me to finish it, so I've given in to the voices and thrown another go at the pesky critter. It's meant to be able to stay unarmed and unarmoured all the way to 20th and stay vaguely effective. I'm hoping for Tier 3 here, but I really need opinions! I think I want more Kata for the list and at some point I will be writing a bonus feat list with a little more flavour. However, the potential for ACFs are great, since new fighting styles are easy enough to create, and the Way of the Open Palm could easily be replaced with a different philosophy, changing the entire outlook and capability of the class, especially with an accompanying adapted Kata list. I like modular ACFs, they make life easier!

    Without further ado, I give you the Open Palm (picture pending):

    Changelog:
    Spoiler
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    • 23/06/12
    • Implemented some tweaks suggested by Waylander X (cheers dude, much appreciated!)

      12/06/12
    • Finished fluff!

      11/06/12
    • Inserted 'Diamond Soul' and 'Timeless Body' at corresponding levels from Monk
    • Added 'Homeostasis' at 9th to cover two Monk abilities and give thematically appropriate extra bonus.
    • Tidied up presentation
    • Added some of the fluff... may actually get it done finally/eventually!

      10/06/12
    • Reworded and mechanically overhauled Kata
    • Added a bunch more Kata (33 now)
    • Added 'Contemplation' & 'Lessons Learned' to the list, because Evasion and Mettle looked so lonely...
    • Added 'Slow Fall' at slightly truncated, but fairly similar progression to Monk.
    • Fighting Styles properly in place and slightly better balanced against each other (I hope!)
    • Random edits and rewordings, mostly minor, as-and-when I saw them. Probably missed a bunch...meh!


    The Fluff!
    Spoiler
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    The Open Palm can best be described as an ascetic aesthetic, to seek beauty and understanding in your surroundings, and learn more of yourself from the ways you feel and interact with the world. The core teaching of the way, 'Open palm, open mind' is a simplification of a slightly deeper knowledge. All Open Palms gain their power from the flow of chi through their body, and the methods by which they apply this energy. This is achieved only with full understanding of one's self, and the place in this world where one flourishes. Whereas this may seem the same as Monks from more traditional monastic settings, the method of learning is very different in many ways (not least of which the constant travel).
    One must seek beauty in all things, and through doing so learn how to recognise the beauty and grace in one's self. To do this, the body and mind must be in harmony, toned and wrought to deal with the extreme places, people and experiences which are out in the world, for these too must have their beauty, and to understand it gives you an understanding of how it also resides in you. Open Palms often seem naive and whimsical as a result, seeing 'only the good of things'. This is untrue, for the Open Palm understands there is also beauty in evil things, in their tenacity, their subtlety, even their brutality. He must recognise these things in himself also, because they too are part of the world, and therefore hold keys to his own understanding. Despite this, Open Palms oppose the evil of the world in one respect or another and are never evil by alignment themselves, since their need for internal harmony cannot be met with a corrupted or selfish point of view.
    Training starts much the same as a normal Monk, your sensei will begin by setting menial tasks, which will continue until he sees you are ready. In this time you are taught to observe all you see and feel around you, and your body is conditioned to be able to cope with the rigorous initial training regime. This almost always takes at least a year. After this point however, the training for a traditional Monk and that of an Open Palm starts to diverge. For the next two years, the Open Palm is taken outside the sensei's domain (usually a barn, or similar structure with a large open dojo at the centre with simple yet comfortable quarters around the edge) and sets off in a random direction by his sensei, whereupon he is to observe everything and find the beauty in it. The initiate is expected to continue his menial tasks whilst following his sensei, but he will also be instructed in the forms, movements and philosophies of the art.
    When the sensei knows his pupil is ready to learn by himself, he will take him back to the dojo for the final and most vital stage of training. The sensei will hand to his pupil a set of scrolls and tell his pupil to study them until he knows them by rote. These scrolls contain the hidden truths and physical secrets to the use of the Kata they have learned, transforming basic movements into inner power and harmony. Once this is done, the pupil creates his own set of scrolls from memory and presents them to his sensei along with a demonstration of the pupil's first true Kata, in a ritual which marks the end of his time as a pupil.
    Open Palms grow and learn from everything they see, feel and do. As their understandings deepen, so too will their abilities, everything a level 20 Open Palm does is directly linked to one of the exercises, tasks or movements which all initiates learn and do. The difference is simply in how far their understanding of the external world and the internal self goes.

    A note on Kata scrolls:
    Spoiler
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    Many Open Palms continue to create copies of these scrolls over the years, to keep the knowledge fresh in their minds. As such, they are not uncommon to find in many places, where the vast majority of people think them nothing more than 'exotic philosophies', which indeed they essentially are. Once in a while, someone will come across a set of these scrolls, and for one reason or another will recognise some of the true significance of the knowledge inside. Such people often end up finding a sensei of their own and training in the ways themselves. It is possible that this is a recruiting tactic of sorts, but this has been neither confirmed nor denied so far.



    Adventures: Most Open Palms relish the very thought of adventuring. Right from the start, they are encouraged to experience new things and savour every detail of the world around them. This helps them understand and unlock their inner potentials through the way they perceive and interact with the outer world, and to train and expand their physical prowess though the most severe and dangerous of conditions. As such, single Open Palms or indeed entire troupes of Open Palms are not uncommon sights in a mage's tower, a city siege, a dragon's lair, or one of a hundred other places where adventurers are likely to be found. Material wealth means little to an Open Palm, it can be a means to an end, but the accumulation of wealth for it's own sake is seen as largely pointless when you could experience so much by spending it all. Curiosity and wonder drives an Open Palm, but never avarice.

    Characteristics: On the surface the way of the Open Palm isn't that dissimilar to the standard PHB Monk with an unarmed and unarmoured approach to combat and unerring physical abilities, but scratch that surface and you'll find a far wider range of capabilities underneath.
    Most notable of these is the use of Kata, a method of training muscle memory and manipulating chi to enhance themselves or hamper most living creatures in one way or another.
    A second obvious difference is the choice of fighting styles later in the class, which allows an Open Palm to further adapt their combat approach, and makes different members of this class far more diverse without the need for prestige classes.

    Alignment: The way of the Open Palm precludes evil alignments, and whereas many Open Palms tend towards neutral good due to the teachings of openness, any non-evil alignment can find common ground with these experience-loving and hard-working individuals.

    Religion: No official religion exists for the Open Palms, their philosophies and teachings are rarely at direct odds with non-evil gods, at least not badly, but many Open Palms feel no need to get closer to a largely abstract and mostly unknown being when there's so much to experience and understand all around them already. That said, a good many Open Palms end up following Fharlanghn to a greater or lesser extent, since there is so much common ground between the philosophy and the faith.

    Background: All Open Palms have been trained for at least 3 years by another Open Palm of at least 3rd Dan, referred to as 'Sensei'. Beyond that, there is often little in common to tie most Open Palms together beyond their curiosity and intense internal journey. Many people argue that the Open Palms are a renegade off-shoot of one of the more 'traditional' monasteries, but this seems more rumour and speculation since no records are known to exist which prove or disprove the theory.

    Races: Many races can get a good deal of benefit from this class, though they are almost exclusively humanoid in shape movement terms. Halflings make especially effective Open Palms for many reasons (Kender are a wonderful fit if you are using them in the campaign), but humans and half-elves make up the bulk of Open Palm numbers.

    Other Classes: Open Palms rarely have conflicts with other classes, they generally adopt a live and let live approach, judging people only by the actions they see, not by the background they come from. Of the other classes, Bards and Monks find the most in common with the Open Palm, but most melee classes can appreciate the skill and determination inherent in the Open Palm's abilities. Spellcasters are often slightly disturbed by the power an Open Palm can muster, especially since many don't understand how it works. Psionic classes identify with Open Palms with regards to their inner strength, and many a friendship has been struck between psionic characters and Open Palms due to this shared understanding.

    Role: Open Palms are largely hit and run combatants with limited battlefield control, although the precise role of any single member of the class varies widely depending on their particular set of Kata and combat style. As such, an Open Palm may be a skirmisher, a fast frontliner, or even a tank, but very rarely will a single individual do more than one or two of these things.
    An Open Palm may also fill the role of scout or party face, and whereas they are not as effective in this capacity as a rogue, bard or scout, they can certainly function well enough in the role. Most Open Palms are also useful for battlefield triage, where they can mix their skills and certain Kata to good effect.


    Game Rule Information
    Open Palms have the following game statistics.

    Abilities: Due to his teachings of flexibility and speed the Open Palm values Dexterity above Strength, deriving many of it's combat bonuses from Dexterity and learning brute force is not the only means to an end. However, the nature of his inner strength and the faith he has in himself means Charisma at least equally important, since it is used for many of the Open Palm's special strikes and perhaps more importantly his Perform (Kata) skill, which is integral to the class.

    Alignment: Any non-evil
    Hit Hie: D8

    THE OPEN PALM
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Dan Bonus|Unarmed Damage

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Improved Unarmed Strike, Like The Willow, Kata|
    +1
    |
    1D4

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Way Of The Open Palm 1st Dan, Trained Responses|
    +1
    |
    1D4

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Evasion, Contemplation|
    +1
    |
    1D4

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 20ft|
    +1
    |
    1D6

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Mettle, Lessons Learned|
    +2
    |
    1D6

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Way of the Open Palm 2nd Dan|
    +2
    |
    1D6

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Fighting Style (1), Slow Fall 40ft|
    +2
    |
    1D6

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Unarmed Strike (Augmented)|
    +2
    |
    1D6

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Fighting Style (2), Homeostasis|
    +3
    |
    1D8

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Way of the Open Palm 3rd Dan|
    +3
    |
    1D8

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Fighting Style (3), Slow Fall 60ft|
    +3
    |
    1D8

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Bonus Feat, Improved Evasion|
    +3
    |
    1D8

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Fighting Style (4), Diamond Soul|
    +4
    |
    1D8

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Way of the Open Palm 4th Dan|
    +4
    |
    1D10

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Fighting Style (5), Slow Fall 80ft|
    +4
    |
    1D10

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |Bonus Feat, Unarmed Strike (Adamantine)|
    +4
    |
    1D10

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |Fighting Style (6), Timeless Body|
    +5
    |
    1D10

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |Way of the Open Palm 5th Dan |
    +5
    |
    1D10

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |Fighting Style (7), Slow Fall any distance|
    +5
    |
    2D6

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |Bonus Feat, Master Sensei |
    +5
    |
    2D6
    [/table]


    Class Skils:Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Heal*, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Anatomy, History, Military & Religion), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand*, Spot, Swim, Tumble
    *5 or more ranks in this skill confers a +2 synergy bonus to Perform (Kata) checks.
    Skill points at 1st level:4x(6+Int)
    Skill points at each additional level:6+Int

    A note on Perform (Kata)
    Spoiler
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    This is a fairly big chunk of the idea and mechanics of the class on two levels. Firstly, it encompasses the 'realism' of the concept nicely as a largely (Ex) powered class, if any of you know much in the way of martial arts, you'll probably understand! For those of you who don't, a kata is a series of movements you learn as you train in a martial art, which strings together the manipulations and strikes you learn to create a single, fluid 'combat dance'.
    Secondly, it's designed as a bona fide performance, something people will gladly spend money to see. For the casual observer, the choreographed movements, precise control and acrobatic nature of many Kata make for spectacular public entertainment, especially when combined with a simple drumming beat. However, it serves as a stark warning to any experienced combatant watching a Perform (Kata) display, as they will surely recognise the martial applications of such refined and fluid movements.
    Anyone could learn the skill, but only Open Palms have the ability to unlock the performance's true purpose.


    Dan Bonus (Ex): The core bonus for the Open Palm class. The Open Palm receives this number as a bonus to AC and may add his Charisma modifier as a class bonus to his AC as long as he remains unarmoured. In addition, he receives double this number as a bonus to all attacks and damage made whilst unarmed.

    Unarmed Strike (Ex):At 1st level the Open Palm gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, except he now deals damage as per the Open Palm table (this is for medium sized creatures, adjust accordingly for smaller or larger Open Palms). The Open Palm's unarmed attacks are always treated as two handed weapons for the purposes of disarming, sundering and tripping.
    Additionally, starting at 8th level all unarmed attacks made by the Open Palm are considered magical for the purposes of defeating damage reduction.
    At 16th level the Open Palm's unarmed strikes are considered adamantine for purposes of defeating damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

    Like The Willow (Ex):The Open Palm has learnt through rigorous training and experience that strength is not important if you learn how to use your enemies against themselves. As long as he wears no armour the Open Palm gains the weapon finesse feat for free. He may also choose to use his Dex or his Str modifier (whichever is higher) for any opposed Str based checks like disarming or tripping.

    Kata (Ex/Sp):Through repetitive movements and refined by years of practice, the Open Palm learns how to manipulate the chi in most living things including himself through atemi strikes, physical manipulation and even the supernatural force of his personality.
    The Open Palm starts play knowing 1 kata (as long as he meets the skill requirement), and learns an additional 1 from the list at every level of Open Palm. At 3rd level, and every odd numbered level thereafter, you may choose to swap a Kata you know for another one on the list which you qualify for. Kata may be used a number of times per encounter equal to half your ranks (rounded down) in Perform (Kata) + Charisma bonus. To begin with, only 1 kata may be used in any one round of combat, but this number increases over time (see Way of The Open Palm). The Open Palm must have sufficient ranks in Perform (Kata) to access each ability. These kata are free actions which are taken as part of another action unless stated otherwise.
    The spell-like Kata are taken individually and have a caster level equal to half your Open Palm level. Spell-like Kata require a standard action but do not provoke attacks of opportunity. All the abilities here which require saves have DCs as follows:
    (DC=10+half class level+Cha)
    Spoiler
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    4 ranks:
    Sensory Strike (Ex). The Open Palm may make any one attack roll a sensory strike. If the attack hits and deals damage then the opponent must succeed a Fort save or be blinded AND deafened for a number of rounds equal to 1+ the Open Palm's dan bonus.
    Stunning Fist (Ex). As per the feat, except where noted for all Kata (uses/encounter and saves).
    Nauseating Strike (Ex). The Open Palm may make any one attack roll a nauseating strike. If the attack hits and deals damage, the opponent must succeed a Fort save or be nauseated, if this save succeeds the opponent is sickened instead. This lasts a number of rounds equal to the Open Palm's dan bonus.

    6 ranks:
    Spell-like Kata (Sp). Choose a spell-like ability from the following list. Each use requires one use of your Kata/encounter.
    Cause Fear, Charm Person, Hypnotism, Remove Fear, Sleep.

    8 ranks:
    Defiant Stand (Ex). As long as he fights defensively, the Open Palm gains DR 10/- until the beginning of his next turn. (This DR stacks with that gained from the Iron Body style.)
    Systemic Purge (Ex). Whenever the Open Palm fails a save for a poison or disease, he may make an immediate Perform (Kata) check with a DC of the disease or poison's DC +10. If he succeeds, the disease or poison is neutralised. This may be used on an ally as long as they are within reach, and requires a touch (as if delivering a touch spell) and an immediate action.
    Metabolic Increase (Ex). The Open Palm gains Fast Healing equal to his Dan bonus, for a number of minutes equal to his Dan bonus. This may be used on an ally as long as they are within reach, and requires a touch (as if delivering a touch spell) and an immediate action.

    10 ranks:
    Spell-like Kata (Sp). Choose a spell-like ability from the following list. Each use requires two uses of your Kata/encounter.
    Blur, Cat's Grace, Delay Poison, Eagle's Splendour, Scare.

    12 ranks:
    Elemental Strike (Ex). Choose cold, fire or lightning as you use this Kata. Your unarmed attacks deal an additional 1D6 damage of the chosen type for a number of rounds equal to your Dan bonus. Multiple uses of this kata do not stack, but do allow you to change energy type.
    Conservation of Movement (Ex). 1/round the Open Palm may gain an additional move action to be taken either at the start or end of his turn (this is in addition to any extra actions granted by feats, spells, equipment, etc). Unlike other Kata, the point spent on Conservation of Movement does not count towards your total allowance of Kata uses in any one round, but still applies to your Kata/encounter.

    14 ranks:
    Spell-like Kata (Sp). Choose a spell-like ability from the following list. Each use requires three uses of your Kata/encounter.
    Dispel Magic (see spoiler below), Fear, Haste, See Invisibility, Slow.
    Spoiler
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    Targeted version only. Instead of a caster level check, you roll a Perform (Kata) check with a -10 penalty.


    16 ranks:
    Flying Fist (Ex). Whenever the Open Palm successfully disarms an opponent, he may spend a Kata use and make an immediate action to throw the weapon at any opponent within range (10' per increment). This attack is made at the same attack bonus as the attack which disarmed the weapon. The weapon does it's usual damage type, but the damage dealt equals your normal unarmed strike damage, if the weapon has any magical enhancements they are applied to this damage also. The Open Palm may apply any one of the following Kata to this thrown attack for free (they do not count towards your Kata uses per round, nor your Kata/encounter); Sensory Strike, Stunning Fist, Nauseating Strike, Elemental Strike (but only for this single attack)
    Abundant Step (Ex). As per the monk ability, except limited to uses/encounter as all other Kata.

    18 ranks:
    Spell-like Kata (Sp). Choose a spell-like ability from the following list. Each use requires four uses of your Kata/encounter.
    Break Enchantment, Hold Monster, Shout.

    20 ranks:
    Quivering Palm (Ex). As per the monk ability, except where noted for all Kata (uses/encounter and saves).
    The River Flows (Ex). Whenever the Open Palm successfully trips or grapples an opponent, he may spend a Kata use and make an immediate action to throw that opponent in any horizontal direction. The Open Palm rolls a Perform (Kata) check and treats the number as a jump check (long jump, running start) for the opponent being thrown, to determine distance. This ability can be used to throw someone over a ledge or into a raging inferno but the victim gets a last-ditch reflex save to avoid such fates. Regardless, the Open Palm rolls damage for an unarmed strike as normal, adding +1D6 for every 5' travelled, and the opponent lands prone.

    22 ranks:
    Spell-like Kata (Sp). Choose a spell-like ability from the following list. Each use requires five uses of your Kata/encounter.
    Greater Dispel Magic (see spoiler below), Mislead, Shadow Walk.
    Spoiler
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    Targeted version only. Instead of a caster level check, you roll a Perform (Kata) check.



    Way of the Open Palm (Ex): As long as the Open Palm is unarmed, wearing no armour and carrying no more than a medium load he gains the following at the levels listed;
    Spoiler
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    1st Dan: The Open Palm may make a disarm, sunder or trip attack as a move action once per round. You may use 2 Kata/round.
    2nd Dan: Whenever the Open Palm is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as grapples, bull rushes, trips, etc) he is treated as one size category larger if doing so is beneficial to him.
    3rd Dan: The Open Palm may take a 5' step between each attack he makes so long as his total movement in that turn doesn't exceed double his base speed. You may use 3 Kata/round.
    4th Dan: Whenever the Open Palm is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as grapples, bull rushes, trips, etc) he is now treated as two size categories larger if doing so is beneficial to him.
    5th Dan: The Open Palm becomes immune to death attacks and petrification, and is treated as being permanently under the Freedom of Movement spell. You may use 4 Kata/round.


    Trained Responses (Su): The Open Palm has such conviction in his training that his muscle memory moves him beyond normal limits. From 2nd level onwards, as part of any attack action (except attacks of opportunity) the Open Palm may take a -2 penalty to hit and damage rolls for that round and gain an extra attack at his full base attack bonus. At 9th level you may opt to take a -4 penalty to hit and damage instead, and gain 2 extra attacks at your full base attack bonus. At 15th level these penalties are halved (-1 for 1 extra attack, -2 for 2 extra attacks)
    This ability counts as Flurry of Blows for the purposes of qualifying for feat and class requirements.

    Evasion: At 3rd level the Open Palm gains evasion. At 12th level he gains Improved Evasion.

    Contemplation: At 3rd level the Open Palm has started to understand the lessons of his seemingly menial training regimes. Choose a number of Open Palm class skills equal to your Intelligence modifier. You gain your Dan bonus as a bonus to those skills.

    Bonus Feat: At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter (up to 20th), the Open Palm may choose a fighter bonus feat. He may substitute his Wisdom score in favour of Charisma regarding feat requirements, but must otherwise meet all the requirements for these feats.

    Slow Fall (Ex): As per the Monk ability of the same name.

    Mettle: At 5th level the Open Palm gains mettle.

    Lessons Learned: At 5th level, the Open Palm discovers a hidden truth of the world and their existence within it. Choose one school of magic, you gain your Dan bonus as a bonus to all saves made against spells of that school.

    Fighting Style (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, the Open Palm starts to focus upon one particular style from the list below. Choose one style, you gain that style's benefits at the indicated levels. Every style grants a bonus feat at first level which is at the core of it's teachings, if you already have the feat you may choose any feat which you qualify for and gain that instead.
    Spoiler
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    Thousand Strikes style.
    Spoiler
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    You gain Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat.
    1. Double Strike. Whenever you make a single attack as a standard action, you gain a second attack at your highest attack bonus, but both attacks suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
    2. Rapid Attack I. Whenever you make a full attack action, you may subtract any number up to your Dan bonus from your damage rolls for that round, and gain that many extra attacks. These attacks are at your highest attack bonus, but all attacks for the round take a -2 penalty to hit. (This essentially replaces Trained Responses, and therefore does not stack with it)
    3. Rapid Attack II. When using rapid attack, you gain 20% concealment against the opponent you are attacking. This bonus lasts until the beginning of your next round.
    4. Violent Reaction. Whenever your opponent misses you with a melee attack by 5 or more, you get an immediate single attack of opportunity against that opponent. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.
    5. Precision Blur. Whenever you use double strike or rapid attack, you take no penalty to the attacks instead of -2. You may choose to do bludgeoning or slashing damage with every unarmed attack, chosen before you roll to hit.
    6. Twisting Attacker. The concealment granted by rapid attack applies to all attacks made against you, from any source.
    7. Rolling Thunder. The concealment from rapid attack increases to 50%. Whenever you spend a Kata use to augment a single strike, all strikes for that round are affected instead.


    Iron Body style.
    Spoiler
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    You gain Combat Expertise as a bonus feat.
    1. Iron Skin I. For as long as you fight defensively or use the Combat Expertise feat, you gain DR (Dan bonus)/Magic.
    2. Iron Fists I. Your unarmed attacks deal twice as many dice of damage, for example a 9th level Open Palm would deal 2D6 unarmed damage instead of 1D6, and at 18th level would deal 4D6. (This does not stack with the Fists of Iron feat, and doesn't increase other sources of damage like sneak attack).
    3. Iron Legs. Whenever you are targetted by a bullrush or overrun you count as 1 size category larger than usual, and gain a bonus on any opposed rolls from these maneuvers equal to your Dan bonus. This effective size increase stacks with those gained from Way of the Open Palm.
    4. Iron Skin II. The DR you gain from iron skin becomes DR (Dan bonus)/-
    5. Iron Fists II. Whenever you successfully hit an opponent who is denied their dexterity to AC, the attack becomes a knockback attack. The opponent makes a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Dan bonus) or is knocked back a number of feet equal to the damage dealt and is dazed until the start of your next turn.
    6. Iron Soul. Whenever you fight defensively or use the Combat Expertise feat, you gain your Dan bonus to all saves versus spells and spell-like abilities.
    7. Iron Clad. You are impervious to all non-lethal damage and fatigue. You gain a spell resistance equal to their Open Palm level + 15 for any spell which would deal damage, ability damage or level drain.


    Twisting Snake style.
    Spoiler
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    You gain Improved Feint as a bonus feat.
    1. Sneaky Snake I. Whenever you successfully feint in combat, your next attack deals 1D6 precision damage. This does not apply to any target immune to critical hits. (If you already have precise strike, sneak attack or any other similar ability, these bonuses stack.)
    2. Slippery Snake I. Feinting in combat becomes a swift action. You gain a bonus to your bluff check to feint equal to 2xDan bonus.
    3. Sneaky Snake II. Your precision damage increases to 3D6.
    4. Slippery Snake II. You may feint as part of an attack of opportunity, even if you have already feinted in that round. Whenever you make a grapple or escape artist check, you gain a bonus equal to 2xDan bonus to that roll.
    5. Sneaky Snake III. Your precision damage increases to 5D6. You may choose to do bludgeoning or piercing damage with every unarmed attack, chosen before you roll to hit.
    6. Slippery Snake III. Whenever you feint in combat, all opponents (including the one you're feinting at) have a 25% chance to miss you with any attack or targeted spell until the beginning of your next turn. This miss chance stacks with the spell-like Kata Blur
    7. Twisted Perfection. Your precision damage increases to 7D6. The miss chance afforded you by Slippery Snake increases to 50%.


    Homeostasis (Ex):
    At level 9 the Open Palm has started unlocking the preternatural potential of his body's inherant capabilities. You gain immunity to all non-magical poisons and diseases. Additionally, you may go twice as long as normal without food, water or air before saves need be made.

    Diamond Soul:
    At level 13 the Open Palm gains Diamond Soul as per the Monk ability of the same name.

    Timeless Body:
    At level 17 the Open Palm gains Timeless Body as per the Monk ability of the same name.

    Master Sensei (Ex/Su): At 20th level the Open Palm has truly mastered himself, and therefore holds great power indeed. He is forevermore treated as an Outsider instead of his previous type (usually humanoid), but may still be raised or resurrected as if he were of his original type (as long as this was initially possible). If he chose Twisting Snake style, he may become ethereal (or rematerialise) at will as a move action. This is a supernatural effect.
    He gains Fast Healing 5 and no longer has a maximum age, as his body now continuously renews itself. If he chose Iron Body style, he gains Fast Healing 10 instead.
    Additionally, he may now make an additional attack at his full base attack bonus with his Trained Responses ability (making 3 extra attacks), and all penalties for doing so are negated. If he chose Thousand Strikes style, he gains an additional attack at his full base attack bonus whenever he uses Double Strike or Rapid Attack (Making 3 extra attacks and 6 extra attacks total, respectively).
    Last edited by Veklim; 2012-06-23 at 10:56 AM. Reason: major rehaul edit!
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Open Palm

    I like it. Bit too complicated though.
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Open Palm

    OK, I need to work on some more stuff for the Kata. Also needs an appropriate capstone, but is still early days yet. Suggestions/critiques?
    Last edited by Veklim; 2011-04-09 at 05:03 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    OK guys, REALLY REALLY need a clue as to the capstone. This is pure prototype, and I know how cliched it is to make a monk fix or the like, but I'm new and I figured I'd get it out of my system!
    Besides, I want a useable class designed to use their hands in a purely martial manner and they seem to be very hard to come by.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    I know that this is just a prototype but this does not look like a "fixed" monk by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it looks far far weaker than the normal monk at the current time.

    1. This open palm has weaker saving throws than the monk (though this guy gets mettle, which really helps, losing improved evasion is a big deal and kind of offsets this bonus unless this is just being used as a 5 level dip, in which case it works).
    2. The open palm has weaker unarmed damage than the monk but is still reliant upon unarmed damage to win fights.
    3. The AC bonus of this class is far lower than that of an average monk (which adds its full Wis bonus to its AC).
    4. This class doesn't actually do anything with its hands that would lessen its reliance on magical items in any way (it still needs them to fly, gain normal immunities, have a chance of hitting opponents, increase AC so you won't die, and so forth).
    5. The mechanics of kata, while interesting, bite into the open palm's limited supply of skill points (especially if you want those synergy bonuses). Furthermore, the two strike abilities seem inferior to a monk's stunning fist (which a monk can use 1/level/day and totally shuts down a creature for a round) while the disarming ability and throwing ability fail against creatures with natural weapons and against larger creatures (the types of enemies that players will likely be facing at high levels).
    6. This class gains flurry of blows incredibly late, the penalty never decreases as it does with the monk class, and it only applies to unarmed strikes (meaning that you can't use enchanted monk weapons to possibly hit something).
    7. Unlike the monk, who at least gains some choice in the matter of bonus feats, all open fists are going to end up exactly the same as each other, making encounters against them rather predictable and taking away most power for a player to personalize their character.
    8. I see a couple dead levels for this class (6 counting levels where only your AC bonus or unarmed damage go up), more than is probably healthy for it to have (and again unlike the monk, which doesn't have any dead levels).

    Instead of altering and adding to the monk class to make it more playable as most monk fixes do, this class gives the impression of a monk that has had things taken away from it until it was focused before being given the kata ability to try to make up for it.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2011-04-10 at 10:15 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    I know that this is just a prototype but this does not look like a "fixed" monk by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it looks far far weaker than the normal monk at the current time.
    Absolutely agreed, Realms.

    While a nice idea for the kata, I'm not seeing anything that makes me want to take this over, say, Monk.

    I think that if you want to make a gear-independent martialist, you need to do the following things:

    1. You need to solve the damage equation. Either get a weapon from your class (Soulknife tried and failed to do this) or do the unarmed thing (Monk tried and failed this one), but you have to have consistent, effective, scaling bonus damage. I used Flowing Strike on my monk to do this (gains a bonus to attacks/damage in that round equal to monk level after moving 10 ft or more). The Scout uses Skirmish. Rogues use Sneak Attack. The Open Palm... stands there.

    2. You need to solve the mobility equation. Things in this game can fly, climb walls, and teleport. You need to, sans gear, compete with those things.

    3. You need to solve the ability score and bonuses equations. Other people are getting magical and miscellaneous bonuses to their stats and ability scores. You need to as well.

    4. Finally, and most critically, you need to have some OPTIONS. Other classes have options. You need options too, but you also need to do everything else listed above at the same time while not sacrificing your options or your other stuff.

    If this looks like a really difficult list of things to do, you're right. It is. The Open Palm doesn't solve ANY of these problems, much less multiples.

    If you want to make a gear-less class (a noble goal, I wish you the best of luck), you need to solve these issues.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    1. This open palm has weaker saving throws than the monk (though this guy gets mettle, which really helps, losing improved evasion is a big deal and kind of offsets this bonus unless this is just being used as a 5 level dip, in which case it works).
    I don't like the whole perfect save progression on monks, especially over all 3 saves. What I've done with mettle is part of the counter-balance for the average progression, and I'm considering adding improved evasion later anyhow (is there an improved mettle btw?). The other part of that balance is with 'Trained Responses', which essentially pumps one of the saves to a similar (if not higher) level than a good save. Reflex will already be high, on account of Dex being vital, so it's a choice between fort and will really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    2. The open palm has weaker unarmed damage than the monk but is still reliant upon unarmed damage to win fights.
    The idea of unarmed damage surpassing that of a greatsword is preposterous imho. Anything above a D10 is over-egging, but I agree they need more damage output to become truly effective. Perhaps a +2/Dan bonus to attack and damage rolls helps level this out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    3. The AC bonus of this class is far lower than that of an average monk (which adds its full Wis bonus to its AC).
    Ooops, accidental omission. Now reads Cha bonus added to Dex for AC as well as stated bonus on table.
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    4. This class doesn't actually do anything with its hands that would lessen its reliance on magical items in any way (it still needs them to fly, gain normal immunities, have a chance of hitting opponents, increase AC so you won't die, and so forth).
    This is where I need feedback, SERIOUSLY considering making Kata obtainable at every odd level (covers the dead levels and gives more options). Main reason for this would be to open up the possibility of using spells (or at least strikes which emulate spells) at certain Kata levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    5. The mechanics of kata, while interesting, bite into the open palm's limited supply of skill points (especially if you want those synergy bonuses). Furthermore, the two strike abilities seem inferior to a monk's stunning fist (which a monk can use 1/level/day and totally shuts down a creature for a round) while the disarming ability and throwing ability fail against creatures with natural weapons and against larger creatures (the types of enemies that players will likely be facing at high levels).
    Perhaps the skills should be at 6+int... Probably adding stunning fist and removing sensory strike (make it a spell-like kata to choose from a list) anyway. 'Flying Fist' and 'The River Flows' may be better suited as feats perhaps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    6. This class gains flurry of blows incredibly late, the penalty never decreases as it does with the monk class, and it only applies to unarmed strikes (meaning that you can't use enchanted monk weapons to possibly hit something).
    I don't want these guys to use weapons, the whole point is that they shun them for preference with their hands. The spell-like Kata should deal with this at least a little though. Flurry was a last minute thing if truth be told, it does need changing, moving or being made an option instead of predetermined. As to which, I'm not sure!
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    7. Unlike the monk, who at least gains some choice in the matter of bonus feats, all open fists are going to end up exactly the same as each other, making encounters against them rather predictable and taking away most power for a player to personalize their character.
    This is an issue, yes. Precisely the reason I need to move on from prototype to full affair. I want to give a set bonus and a choice at each Dan, but I'm not sure how or which would work in the best interests of game balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    8. I see a couple dead levels for this class (6 counting levels where only your AC bonus or unarmed damage go up), more than is probably healthy for it to have (and again unlike the monk, which doesn't have any dead levels).
    Some of these levels gain a Kata ability actually, but they're not listed on the table for ease of reference at this stage. As I said above though, new Kata will likely be gained at every odd level once the critical rebuild occurs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Instead of altering and adding to the monk class to make it more playable as most monk fixes do, this class gives the impression of a monk that has had things taken away from it until it was focused before being given the kata ability to try to make up for it.
    I have stripped back monk a fair bit, yes. Kata isn't 'tacked on' though, or at least it shouldn't be once I'm done. The kata is there to try and add a fully fluid choice of several different combat techniques and abilities inaccessable to other classes. I do need a little inspiration for these though. Spells with the [mind affecting] descriptor may be useful for striking kata and many transmutations would make sense for defensive kata, but a short list needs to be put together.

    Thankyou for the comments btw, I really want to try and make something worthwhile here, but it's a tricky task!
    Last edited by Veklim; 2011-04-11 at 05:51 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    I don't like the whole perfect save progression on monks, especially over all 3 saves. What I've done with mettle is part of the counter-balance for the average progression, and I'm considering adding improved evasion later anyhow (is there an improved mettle btw?). The other part of that balance is with 'Trained Responses', which essentially pumps one of the saves to a similar (if not higher) level than a good save. Reflex will already be high, on account of Dex being vital, so it's a choice between fort and will really.
    The 3 good saving throws on a monk have always made perfect sense to me. Good fortitude because they work to perfect their body, good reflexes as they have to dodge blows against them, and good will as they seek to perfect their mind as well (such as through meditation). When you put them down as all average saving throws, you are making a statement that they aren't all that good at any one area.

    Even with trained responses, powering down the monk is a very unorthodox method (about as unorthodox as average saving throws in general) as it is already viewed as being too weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    The idea of unarmed damage surpassing that of a greatsword is preposterous imho. Anything above a D10 is over-egging, but I agree they need more damage output to become truly effective. Perhaps a +2/Dan bonus to attack and damage rolls helps level this out?
    I hate to break this to you but if you add that +2/Dan bonus, you'd still be doing more damage than a greatsword. It's very difficult to participate meaningfully as a melee character when you can never do more than 1d10+10+Str damage. I know that there's a kata ability that lets you do more damage by throwing foes but it fails against enemies two size categories or larger than yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    Ooops, accidental omission. Now reads Cha bonus added to Dex for AC as well as stated bonus on table.
    Very well

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    This is where I need feedback, SERIOUSLY considering making Kata obtainable at every odd level (covers the dead levels and gives more options). Main reason for this would be to open up the possibility of using spells (or at least strikes which emulate spells) at certain Kata levels.

    Perhaps the skills should be at 6+int... Probably adding stunning fist and removing sensory strike (make it a spell-like kata to choose from a list) anyway. 'Flying Fist' and 'The River Flows' may be better suited as feats perhaps?
    To start with the obvious question, have you considered using the Tome of Battle here? I'm not telling you to use devoted spirit or desert wind (the supernatural disciplines) but a couple of disciplines like setting sun sound like they'd fit right in with this ability.

    Also, are you certain that Kata is a perform skill? Is it reasonable for someone to stand on the side of a road performing kata and get paid donations or to be asked to perform their kata at a social function? Right now, it looks like you are using perform in the sense of Perform (my job properly) rather than the traditional sense of perform in DnD. Perhaps get rid of this skill.

    The 1/day/level line probably needs to be replaced as it means that your kata are pretty useless until you can at least meet the power of a monk's stunning fist and it makes your only real source of power go really quickly (consider that a bard has spells to fall back on when out of bardic music, for example, and that a single use of bardic music can last through an encounter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    I don't want these guys to use weapons, the whole point is that they shun them for preference with their hands. The spell-like Kata should deal with this at least a little though. Flurry was a last minute thing if truth be told, it does need changing, moving or being made an option instead of predetermined. As to which, I'm not sure!
    If you don't want a class to use weapons and you fail to properly compensate them for not using weapons and put them in battle where they have to use their "weapons" to survive and contribute, there is something of a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    This is an issue, yes. Precisely the reason I need to move on from prototype to full affair. I want to give a set bonus and a choice at each Dan, but I'm not sure how or which would work in the best interests of game balance.
    To borrow from an over-used but effective trope, why not utilize fighting styles (or different schools of combat), gaining benefits at each odd level starting at level 7 or something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    Some of these levels gain a Kata ability actually, but they're not listed on the table for ease of reference at this stage. As I said above though, new Kata will likely be gained at every odd level once the critical rebuild occurs.
    I was counting the levels where new kata were gained (still 6 deadish levels) but I'm glad to hear that this is being taken care of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    I have stripped back monk a fair bit, yes. Kata isn't 'tacked on' though, or at least it shouldn't be once I'm done. The kata is there to try and add a fully fluid choice of several different combat techniques and abilities inaccessable to other classes. I do need a little inspiration for these though. Spells with the [mind affecting] descriptor may be useful for striking kata and many transmutations would make sense for defensive kata, but a short list needs to be put together.
    So far, many of your kata abilities are either a bit situational or are somewhat inferior to other means of fighting that others already possess. While adding magical katas to the mix might help this class gain a bit of versatility, the abilities would hardly qualify as otherwise "inaccessable" unless you are ready to create your own magic system from scratch.

    The problem here so far seems to be that you are trying to make a somewhat realistic martial artist. Unfortunately, all forms of martial arts that we have developed (that I'm aware of, at least) were created with the intention of being used against humans. While having unarmed strikes more powerful than a greatsword may sound ridiculous, so does the idea of a martial artist taking on a giant, dragon, beholder, titan, leviathan, or roc and managing to win. At the end of the day, though, that's the type of thing that any DnD class is going to be called on to do.

    This was my attempt to make a martial artist class that uses no weaponry and no magic items (indeed, it can't have any items on its person at all). The first thing that you might note is that the class, while not a spellcaster, practically has magic spilling out of its ears. This is because we have consistently proven time and time again that magic>everything else combined. Creating a self-sufficient character will likely require more magic than you would suspect at first glance.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    OK then, first things first.

    I like the idea of using combat styles, it was my logical first step in v.2 for OP anyway but I'm glad someone else said it first, I don't seem so cheesy now
    So, the way I see it, these would fit into one of 3 categories. Essentially each category is tied to one of the 3 saves. There should be one for strength of body, which would be power attack, cleave, imp. sunder and the like, one for speed of body, which would likely be dodge, mobility, spring attack, and one for mental endurance, which would cause slightly more trouble for my addled mind to sort out on the fly.
    Thing is I don't wanna just give them more feats, that's not the answer. So we look again at special abilities and the like....this will take me a little time!

    Next thing is the spell-like Kata. I'm NOT using ToB if at all possible, nobody in my group uses it and most of them would like to avoid maneuvers like the plague. Combat takes long enough as it is (large group!).

    I'll remove/change the kata uses/day thing as long as I can come up with another way of limiting them at least a little. The perform bit however, I really think should stay. There are plenty of martial arts performance troupes about the place, look some up and watch what they do. Acrobatics, choreographed combat (that is literally what a kata is), feats of seemingly super-human strength or stamina,... the list goes on and it's all applicable as a money-making performance. In fact it makes the most sense for them as a way of life outside of combat anyhow, they are charisma based characters after all.

    I'm thinking of using the Dan level to control a lot of the abilities variable effects. It's a 0-5 value range which is kinda useful, and saves on otherwise abstract or arbitrary values. More coming once I've planned and thought on this...
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    Why not include another column to your class (like the AC bonus) and give this class a "Dan Bonus" that increases over time (+1 at 1st level and +1 every 4 levels afterwards, perhaps)?

    You could add your Dan bonus to unarmed attack and damage rolls, add twice your Dan bonus to AC (capping out at Charisma mod +10 instead of +6), put in an ability at 2nd level to let you add twice your Dan bonus to all opposed checks against opponents other than skill checks (helping you grapple, trip, disarm, and so forth), and so forth.

    Edit: If I understand properly, you need something of a no-muss, no-fuss class that flows nicely without introducing a ton of additional options that slow down combat due to your large group.

    Just letting you know from the start, if I understand correctly, it seems unlikely that this class is going to be "optimal". Most classes that are considered optimal (tier 3 or higher) have a good deal of decision-making that goes into them each day or even each round, allowing them to adapt to various situations. I'll be glad to look at whatever you produce and provide suggestions if needed but this is going to be a very different sort of fix from the norm.

    Incidentally, what do you think of customization gained while growing in level (such as selecting technique abilities from a menu while leveling up)?
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2011-04-12 at 12:13 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    If I understand properly, you need something of a no-muss, no-fuss class that flows nicely without introducing a ton of additional options that slow down combat due to your large group.
    I'd like it to flow in a metaphorical sense, but for the sakes of combat I still have a cuople of mage players who take forever with their turns! What I don't want is a clunking monster from hell which takes forever to do anything.

    I'm avoiding ToB because none of my players have got it or used it before and most don't even know of it in the first place. I only heard about it when I first started reading and posting here and I've never seen it. Add to that the problem of trying to re-mould everything I've created in the game world to take into account a bunch of new stuff, plus some of the players guaranteed won't get it at first...too much fuss for me just now, I got a family and a job Anyone who wishes to take my finished (if that ever happens!) class and adulterate it with ToB mechanics is more than welcome!

    Incidentally, what do you think of customization gained while growing in level (such as selecting technique abilities from a menu while leveling up)?
    I think that's probably the best way forward, shall delve into that in a moment... The kata also needs a new and comprehensive list, including stunning fist at early level. It may include some customisation but it definitely needs more of everything. Perform Kata needs more of a direct mechanical effect on some abilities too, not just to be used as a benchmark for attaining the abilities. Have made it 6+int skills though, point taken!

    Why not include another column to your class (like the AC bonus) and give this class a "Dan Bonus" that increases over time (+1 at 1st level and +1 every 4 levels afterwards, perhaps).
    V. (There's already a Dan progression, just not in a seperate column)

    You could add your Dan bonus to unarmed attack and damage rolls, add twice your Dan bonus to AC (capping out at Charisma mod +10 instead of +6), put in an ability at 2nd level to let you add twice your Dan bonus to all opposed checks against opponents other than skill checks (helping you grapple, trip, disarm, and so forth), and so forth.
    I REALLY like that actually. Makes a lot of what I'm trying to acheive converge into a single streamlined concept, and if it all runs off one sequence then it cuts down on a hell of a lot of superfluous fuss and wording.

    Let's really run with this a moment then (please stop me if I'm running towards imminent death and/or stupidity!). Would it make sense to make this Dan bonus add to saves as well do you reckon? It would solve your current niggle about my average save progression and it would remove the need for trained responses. Perhaps also use Dan to limit the spell level for spell-like kata...

    On a completely different part of this subject (sorry, my thoughts are rarely linear and my posts suffer for it) I'm slightly worried I'm just adding feats for the sake of it with the first 2 Dans atm. All 4 of those feats are perfect for bonus, should they instead be in a list where you can choose 1 feat at each Dan? Perhaps you get a feat at 4th, a special ability and Dan increase at 6th, a feat at 8th, a special ability and Dan increase at 10th, etc, etc. I'd need a feat and ability list and that would add customisation a plenty, as long as enough ideas find their way to my head.
    Odd levels are there to deal with extra kata abilities and evasion/mettle, other stuff of that ilk.

    I think I'll tackle the unarmed damage question once a bit of the above is sorted into coherant tablature!
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    Not quite sure if I captured your idea but are we kind of looking at something like this right now?

    THE OPEN PALM
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Dan Bonus|Unarmed Damage

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |AC Bonus, Improved Unarmed Strike, Like The Willow, Kata|
    +1
    |1d4

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Dan Ability, Trained Responses|
    +1
    |1d4

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Evasion|
    +1
    |1d4

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat|
    +1
    |1d6

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mettle|
    +2
    |1d6

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Dan Ability|
    +2
    |1d6

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Fighting Style|
    +2
    |1d6

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat, Unarmed Strike (Augmented)|
    +2
    |1d6

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Fighting Style|
    +3
    |1d6

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Dan Ability|
    +3
    |1d6

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Fighting Style|
    +3
    |1d6

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat|
    +3
    |1d8

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Fighting Style|
    +4
    |1d8

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Dan Ability|
    +4
    |1d8

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Fighting Style|
    +4
    |1d8

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Bonus Feat, Unarmed Strike (Adamantine)|
    +4
    |1d8

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Fighting Style|
    +5
    |1d8

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Dan Ability|
    +5
    |1d8

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Perfected Style|
    +5
    |1d8

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Bonus Feat, Master Sensei |
    +5
    |1d10[/table]

    I couldn't tell if you wanted to keep the specific levels of dan in place alongside dan bonuses or if you wanted to turn the current abilities gained for increasing your dan into a list of selectable options (akin to a rogue's special abilities) or something but if it was the former, pretend that 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels have Special Ability + Xth Dan.

    Also, if you're considering adding your Dan bonus to all saves anyways, you may wish to consider just giving this class all good saving throws (unless your idea is to give this class better than all good saving throws). Alternately, perhaps change trained responses so that it grants you dan bonus instead of your Cha bonus and let you switch which saving throw is used as a swift (?) action.

    I can understand the hesitation of adding an entirely new magic system that is completely alien to you into any campaign, let alone a campaign with a large party. Even so, there is one small concept from the Tome of Battle that may deserve some careful consideration. Namely, the idea of gaining abilities per encounter rather than per day.

    While giving this class a supply of kata each day allows a player to make tactical choices and "go nova" when needed, giving uses per encounter would allow players to worry less about future encounters (and waste extra time either fighting without their wondrous powers or arguing with themselves about whether it is worth using their wondrous powers) and takes away the nightmarish scenario of ending up in a battle without any uses of your central class feature. There are many ways that structure of how kata/encounter could work (Dan bonus + 1/2 class level per enounter, Dan bonus + Cha bonus per encounter, BAB + cha bonus per encounter, and so forth) and you could keep the 1/round limitation if you still feel that it is necessary.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    That's pretty much it yes, couple of tweaks to do before the values start getting filled in but it's pretty close.

    Shall start on the rebuild after work this afternoon!
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Or, 'How to use your hands')

    Right...the fighting styles have 7 abilities including the perfected style, as per that table there (which is about right, I'll redo the top one once I'm sure what's going in there). The styles need to be different enough from each other to give a feeling of choice without actually differing too greatly in usability so...

    Thousand Strikes style.
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    You gain Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat.
    1. Double Strike. Whenever you make a single attack as a standard action, you gain a second attack at your highest attack bonus, but both attacks suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
    2. Rapid Attack I.Whenever you make a full attack action, you may subtract any number up to your Dan bonus from your damage rolls for that round, and gain that many extra attacks. These attacks are at your highest attack bonus, but all attacks for the round take a -2 penalty to hit. You may not move more than 5ft in any round which you use this ability.
    3. Rapid Attack II.When using rapid attack, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC against the opponent you are attacking. This bonus lasts until the beginning of your next round.
    4. Violent Reaction.Whenever your opponent misses you with a melee attack by 5 or more, you get an immediate single attack of opportunity against that opponent. This counts towards your attacks of opportunity for the round.
    5. Precision Blur.Whenever you use double strike or rapid attack, you take no penalty to the attacks instead of -2. You may choose to do bludgeoning or piercing damage with every unarmed attack, chosen before you roll to hit.
    6. Twisting Attacker.The AC bonus from rapid attack applies to all attacks made against you, from any source.
    7. Rolling Thunder.The movement restriction from rapid attack is removed, and you may now move 5ft between attacks. You may still only move a maximum of your base speed in that round.

    Iron Body style.
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    You gain Combat Expertise as a bonus feat.
    1. Iron Skin I. Whenever you fight defensively or use the Combat Expertise feat, you gain DR (Dan bonus)/Magic until the beginning of your next turn.
    2. Iron Fists I. Your unarmed attacks deal 2 dice of damage instead of one e.g. a 9th level Open Palm would deal 2D6 unarmed damage instead of 1D6. (This does not stack with the Fists of Iron feat).
    3. Iron Legs. Whenever you are targetted by a bullrush, overrun or grapple you count as 1 size category larger than usual, and gain a bonus on any opposed rolls for bullrush, overrun and grapple equal to your Dan bonus.
    4. Iron Skin II. The DR you gain from iron skin becomes DR (Dan bonus)/-
    5. Iron Fists II. Whenever you successfully hit an opponent who is denied their dexterity to AC, the attack becomes a knockback attack. The opponent makes a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Dan bonus) or is knocked back a number of feet equal to the damage dealt and is dazed until the start of your next turn.
    6. Iron Soul. Whenever you fight defensively or use the Combat Expertise feat, you gain your Dan bonus to all saves versus spells and spell-like abilities.
    7. Iron Clad. You are impervious to all non-lethal damage and fatigue. You gain a spell resistance of 15 for any spell which would deal damage, ability damage or level drain.


    Thoughts?

    More in a bit....
    Last edited by Veklim; 2011-04-14 at 08:35 AM.
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    Default [3.5 Base] Bruce Lee goes D&D PEACH!

    OK, Open Palm v.2.0 up and running, a mere year or so later than originally planned....
    Last edited by Veklim; 2012-06-12 at 09:41 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base] Bruce Lee goes D&D PEACH!

    So nobody has anything at all to say...?!
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Critical Rebuild)

    Well hi there, guess I'll be the first in a long time to PEACH this class.

    1st Dan: The Open Palm may make a disarm, sunder or trip attack as a move action once per round. You may use 2 Kata/round.
    2nd Dan: Whenever the Open Palm is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as grapples, bull rushes, trips, etc) he is treated as one size category larger if doing so is beneficial to him. You may use 3 Kata/round.
    3rd Dan: The Open Palm may take a 5' step between each attack he makes so long as his total movement in that turn doesn't exceed double his base speed. You may use 4 Kata/round.
    4th Dan: Whenever the Open Palm is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as grapples, bull rushes, trips, etc) he is now treated as two size categories larger if doing so is beneficial to him. You may use 5 Kata/round.
    5th Dan: The Open Palm becomes immune to death attacks and petrification, and is treated as being permanently under the Freedom of Movement spell. You may use 6 Kata/round.
    I feel that 6 Kata/round is a bit much, also because Kata has charges based per encounter and most Kata last longer then 1 round. From a player point of view, I can understand that it could become a bit much to be able to fire 6 abilities in 1 round. Personally I would change it to a increase to 2/round at 3rd Dan and 3/round at 5th Dan.

    3. Rapid Attack II. When using rapid attack, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC against the opponent you are attacking. This bonus lasts until the beginning of your next round.
    This seems a bit weak for a level 11 feature, why not make it 20% concealment or strengthen it up a bit (to +4 or something)?
    For the Fighting Style 7 you could pick +50% concealment then for example.
    Just my personal opinion though.

    Iron Fists I. Your unarmed attacks deal 2 dice of damage instead of one e.g. a 9th level Open Palm would deal 2D6 unarmed damage instead of 1D6. (This does not stack with the Fists of Iron feat).
    On level 18, you get 2d6, which is already 2 die....How does that work, since it clearly says 2 instead of 1. Maybe change it into "Double" or add a static die.

    Master Sensei (Ex/Su):
    He gains Regeneration 5 and no longer has a maximum age, as his body now continuously renews itself. If he chose Iron Body style, he gains Regeneration 10 instead.
    Regeneration....and immunity for non-lethal.....o dear. Is it like normal regen? If not, it is like a immortal tank. I hit you...nothing happens. Imo, it seems a bit of a overkill combination for this sort of class. At least, my dm went ape**** when a player asked for a Troll-blooded warforged juggernaut. Might depend on the dm though. :P

    Spell-like Kata (Sp)
    Just a small note here, maybe change full level for casterlevel to half lvl.
    Just to keep in line with other "hybrids" and such. And seeing there are a fair amount of buffs and none are blasting spells, this shouldn't be a too big of a nerf.

    Hope I helped a bit with this ^^

    Way
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] PEACH, The Open Palm (Critical Rebuild)

    Quote Originally Posted by WaylanderX View Post
    Well hi there, guess I'll be the first in a long time to PEACH this class.
    Long indeed, 1 prototype and 2 models down the line and I've been starting to think it's been pointless! Thankyou very much for the PEACH, you've highlighted a few good points.


    I feel that 6 Kata/round is a bit much, also because Kata has charges based per encounter and most Kata last longer then 1 round. From a player point of view, I can understand that it could become a bit much to be able to fire 6 abilities in 1 round. Personally I would change it to a increase to 2/round at 3rd Dan and 3/round at 5th Dan.
    Hadn't paid it much thought, originally the kata/round limit applied to an 'effective kata level' which applied to the SpL-Kata. Needless to say that was silly, so v.1 kept the cost the same, but they only count as 1 of your kata/round now. I think I just forgot to re-address the uses/round as a result. Left it topping out at 4/round, mainly because I've deliberately given them a minor-nova option using action economies. This is part of my endeavour to make them kit-light/free throughout their progression!

    This seems a bit weak for a level 11 feature, why not make it 20% concealment or strengthen it up a bit (to +4 or something)?
    For the Fighting Style 7 you could pick +50% concealment then for example.
    Just my personal opinion though.
    Looking back on it, I agree actually. 20/50% concealment it is!

    On level 18, you get 2d6, which is already 2 die....How does that work, since it clearly says 2 instead of 1. Maybe change it into "Double" or add a static die.
    Good catch, fixed. Now reads 'double dice', which is a reasonable compensation for limited flurry and a relatively static fighting style.

    Regeneration....and immunity for non-lethal.....o dear. Is it like normal regen? If not, it is like a immortal tank. I hit you...nothing happens. Imo, it seems a bit of a overkill combination for this sort of class. At least, my dm went ape**** when a player asked for a Troll-blooded warforged juggernaut. Might depend on the dm though. :P
    Oooops.... Should have been Fast Healing (now fixed), I ALWAYS get that wrong when I'm writing stuff up.

    Just a small note here, maybe change full level for casterlevel to half lvl.
    Just to keep in line with other "hybrids" and such. And seeing there are a fair amount of buffs and none are blasting spells, this shouldn't be a too big of a nerf.
    Changed, but as a result have made changes to their caster level checks for the Dispel range in SpL-Kata. They now make a Perform (Kata) check with a -10 penalty instead of a caster level check (no penalty for Greater Dispel). Think that's OK on the balance front? I want it to be an effective option for them, not an incidental '1 in 4'.

    Hope I helped a bit with this ^^

    Way
    You did indeed, at least you didn't take one look, say 'Argh!' and run for the hills (the general reaction from my players, who are wary of my 'brew since they got on the wrong side of my Sagacious Defenders!). Even better you gave feedback! I am happy
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