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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Still slogging through my judging. Amechra, link to the E6 competition?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Troll in the Playground
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    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Still slogging through my judging. Amechra, link to the E6 competition?
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197000

    Thar ya go.

  3. - Top - End - #213
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    In an Octopus's Garden

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    I would love to see the stories for the blood mage, but as Zaq mentioned, the features aren't all that varied.

    I would like to see a chameleon (the RoD PrC) IC build. Originality without hitting power would be most amusing. Or vice versa.
    Chameleon is one of the better PrC's in the game. There are several well known tricks that really maximize it. I doubt we see it at IC anytime soon.
    Dex

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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

    Have a cookie.
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    Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    kestrel404's Avatar

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    Jul 2009

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    I've got 2 done so far. If I can keep up this pace I should be done by the end of the week.

  5. - Top - End - #215
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Dec 2010
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    Where I live.

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Perhaps...

    Fang of Lolth or Arcane Duelist? The capstone for the AD is rather decent, and they do get reverse Power Attack.

    And Fang of Lolth gets... extra limbs and the VERMIN TYPE!, along with some other, semi-lame class features...

    And it requires a rather large number of ranks in UMD to enter, iirc, and a certain magic item (backstory power to the rescue!)

    Though I wouldn't make waves against Rage Mage...
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    If you see me try to discuss the nitty-gritty of D&D 5e, kindly point me to my signature and remind me that I shouldn't. Please and thank you!

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    My judging is done! As a baseline of what I kicked around as my own ideas, here are three builds I tried and abandoned:
    • Azurin Cleric 3/Incarnate 2/Sapphire Hierarch 6/Incandescent Champion 9: the build for my aforementioned Midnight Metamagic shenanigans. Full BAB thanks to Persisted Divine Power, 5th level spells, meldshaping as if 8th level...scrapped because of RAW issues with my main trick and the question "why not take more Sapphire Hierarch?"
    • Dwarf Totemist 3/Paladin 4/Deepwarden 2/Incandescent Champion 10/Ironsoul Forgemaster 1: Built as a CON/CHA shield tank with self healing, high AC, high saves, and resistance to 5 energy types at 5*essentia. Started with 3 levels in Incarnum Blade, which were scrapped for Deepwarden and more paladin. Dropped when I realized he didn't have much else.
    • Duskling Dragon Shaman 8/Incandescent Champion 10/Marshal 2: CHA-focused aura support (still good while incorporeal). A minor marshal aura and a major one at +1, dragon shaman auras at +2. Shape Soulmeld: Apparition Ribbon and Open Greater Chakra (throat) meant plenty of incorporealness, even after Incandescent Transcendence wore off for the day. Dropped because his only offensive option was a 4d8 breath weapon, and he didn't make decent use of any class features besides Incandescent Aura and Incandescent Transcendence.


    Anyway, enough yapping...here are my scores! Each category starts at a perfect score of 5 and is lowered from there, unless otherwise noted. NOTE: Scores have been updated to reflect which items were scoring adjustments and which were simply comments. While some scores may have changed, they remain mostly consistent. I apologize for any confusion my scoring has caused this round.

    SENA: 11 (2.75 average)
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    Originality: 2.5
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    • I expected a whole lot of Oriental Adventures flavor when dealing with Incarnum, and you didn't disappoint. However, it wasn't anything new. [0]
    • I myself toyed with an Incarnum Blade, so I'm cheering you on there. However, I'm docking the originality, as I mentioned I would. [-1]
    • More usage of the Shape Soulmeld feat to gain meldshaping ability. Yay. [-0.5]
    • Rage. Charge. Incarnum. Repeat. [-1]


    Power: 1.5
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    • You claim that, at 7th level, you have 6 bonus damage to each charge attack before factoring in Rage, Power Attack, STR, or weapon damage. However, this is not the case. Your blademeld, Cobalt Charge, Cobalt Power, and Cobalt Rage all provide insight bonuses to damage. Unfortunately, bonuses of the same type like these do not stack. You can max your essentia investment in one of them, then add on a max essentia investment in Incandescent Strike. You're still at a total of +4 bonus damage, but it's unfortunate that you selected so many feats and class features that provide non-stacking bonuses. While it seems like a small difference at level 7, the gap grows as higher levels (when your max essentia investment increases). [-0.5]
    • While you wind up with a respectable +17 BAB (and the all-important 4th attack), you don't actually have a way to utilize those extra attacks. Pounce is mentioned in the adaptation notes, so I won't be taking off as much as I otherwise might, but your focus seems to be on charging for one attack per round. With stacking sources of bonus damage, it's a decent strategy. However, when you sources don't stack, it waters down your power a bit (see above). [-1]
    • While Blink Shirt provides some mobility, the standard action activation means it's best used as a get-out-of-jail free card. If you had a way to bind it to your totem for move action teleportation, or even binding it to your heart for the ability to use blink, it would have been a much stronger option for you. As such, though, it seems like a feat that could have been better spent. [-0.5]
    • The Blink Shirt teleport + Threefold Mask of the Chimera combo as presented doesn't do anything special. Blink Shirt teleports you as a standard action, your turn allows you a move action, and then the crown chakra bind of the Threefold Mask allows you to take an extra move action. Essentially, you've allowed yourself to double-move and teleport 10 feet; unfortunately, a 1st-level conjurer with Abrupt Jaunt has the same ability with much less investment. Granted, you can extend the range of the teleportation with essentia investment. If you had a way to bind the Mask to your soul and Shirt to your totem, you could teleport as a move action, then use two standard actions in the same round. Unfortunately, you'd still be a sitting duck for the next round, with a -5 penalty to attacks and AC. [-1]
    • No reliance on magic items is great, but no source of non-standard movement beside a standard-action teleport isn't the greatest. One offsets the other, so no reduction here. [0]
    • All in all, your divided focus is your undoing in terms of power. You don't have as much oomph as a devoted charger, you don't have save DCs as high as a dedicated fearmonger, and you don't have as many attacks (or as many sources of bonus damage) as a crit fisher. Unfortunately, Sena is a jack of all trades, but a master of none. [-0.5]


    Elegance: 4
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    • I'm not sure what do to with this one point: the Vanara's 3.5 update is technically not allowed in this competition, since it's Dragon Magazine content. I appreciate your short explanation of what you would do if the update wasn't available, so we won't take any points off here unless true_shinken makes me. [0]
    • While I appreciate your Adaptation notes, you'd have to do more than take two flaws to qualify for Shock Trooper. I'm loathe to take off points from a small adaptation note, but feel that I have to for the failure to mention that you'd also need to snag Improved Bull Rush. [-0.5]
    • I wasn't sure whether to dock Power or Elegance for this. When it comes down to it, I chose to dock Elegance. While I understand your reasoning for selecting Open Least Chakra, it comes online WAY late in the game. By this time, and with no additional effort, you could have selected Open Lesser Chakra (for arms, brow, or shoulder binding) or Open Greater Chakra (for throat or waist binding). Granted, neither of the soulmelds you elected would benefit from these chakras, but there are some better ones out there. Overall, I decided to put this under elegance because the build relies on a feat- and action-intensive strategy that fails to pay off. You don't need two feats and a penalty the following round to take an extra move action. [-0.5]


    UoSI: 3
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    • Your Incandescent Aura/Throat Blademeld/Unbearable Countenance combination seems great on the surface--I actually tried to make it work myself--but it's actually rather lackluster. It takes a full round of actions away from you (a move action for Unbearable Countenance, and a standard action for Throat Blademeld). In exchange, it possibly frightens 1 foe for 1 round and deals minimal damage (halved by a low save, since you yourself state that Incandescent Aura is the last priority for your essentia investment). The laughably low DC of both effects coupled with the level the trick comes online means that the combo loses some of its potency. Adding insult to injury, allows two saving throws to negate or lessen, only lasts for one round, and those who save against your unbearable countenance are immune for an hour, meaning you'd need some other move-action demoralization to use for your second attempt. All in all, the reward doesn't outweigh the risks. [-0.5]
    • Your low DEX means that, even with a high BAB, your Incandescent Ray might be missing frequently. Cobalt Power may actually help you here, since its insight bonus applies to "attack rolls," with no stipulation of only melee or ranged attacks. However, your bonuses to damage rolls all stipulate melee damage rolls, meaning that Incandescent Ray won't be doing much damage even when it does hit. [-0.5]
    • You've taken all the levels, and for that I'm glad. However, you don't really attempt to showcase anything (besides the combo mentioned above). Furthermore, as a charger/crit-fisher, the capstone of the SI is at odds with your primary tactic. While fear could still work, you would need some kind of always-on aura like the Dread Necromancer or Dread Witch. Unfortunately, the limitation on activating class features means that, while incorporeal, you can't use the only combos you've shared. [-1]


    USHLAKA: 9.5 (2.375 average)
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    Originality: 2.5
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    • I wasn't expecting a shifter, especially one so dedicated to shifting.[+0.5]
    • More usage of the Shape Soulmeld feat to gain meldshaping ability. Yay.[-0.5]
    • If I was expecting shifters, though, I would have expected weretouched master and bloodclaw master.[-0.5]
    • A barbarian dip for pounce? It's an easy grab, and one I've used myself far too many times (especially considering that you could have grabbed it as a Weretouched Master (granted, at a higher level).[-1]
    • Rage. Charge. Incarnum. Repeat. [-1]


    Power: 3.5
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    • You're assuming a metric crapload of magic items. [-0.5]
    • Three shape soulmeld feats? You might as well have wedged an incarnate dip in the mix. [-1]
    • You mention Blood in the Water would be better for this crit-fisher, but why didn't you take it? You gain scent from Weretouched Master, making Hunter's Sense irrelevant. [0]
    • How did I miss Shifter Savagery before? That's a nice little feat, especially when coupled with a braid of dire shifting. [+0.5]
    • Pouncing charger with 7 attacks (3 BAB, 1 TWF, 2 Dancing Mongoose, 1 Shifting bite) is good, but could have been better. The TWF feat tree is abandoned, and additional natural attacks available via soulmelds are ignored. I won't dock it too hard, since the number of attacks weren't the immediate focus of your build, but a few minor tricks could have made this truly breathtaking. [-0.5]
    • Your bonus damage output is solid, but reliant upon your high STR from Shifting/raging/items. Luckily, you still fare well without these bonuses, due to your balanced stacking of bonus damage from Incandescent Strike and Bluesteel Bracers. It's clear that you were counting on Thunderstep Boots for more bonus damage, but see UoSI. Even if the trick had worked, bonus damage doesn't get multiplied on a crit, so your essentia is probably better invested in the bracers and Strike. Still, solid damage. [+0.5]
    • You don't have any unorthodox mobility. It's good that you've got a way to fly at 21st level, but that needs to be a consideration pre-epic. [-0.5]
    • Improved Grab is a great ability to have, and hardly gets a nod! Though, interestingly enough, choosing the tiger as your ancestor instead of the bear could have given you pounce without the barbarian dip. [0]


    Elegance: 1
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    • Three dips [-4]
    • You don't qualify for Weretouched Master, since you only have 4 ranks in Know: Nature [-1]
    • Shifter savagery isn't listed as an eligible bonus feat for Weretouched Masters in ECS. While I have no problem allowing ANY shifter feat as the bonus feats, I can see some tougher DMs taking issue with that. [0]
    • You get +12 to STR while raging & shifting, rather than +14. The Bloodclaw Master has a sidebar that applies to shifters who take the class, with no mention as to whether or not it is optional, so you don't get the +2 STR bonus from Bloodclaw Master shifting. [0]
    • What KIND of Shifter are you? I'm guessing longtooth from your feat requirements, but it would have been good to state. [0]
    • Nitpick: sometimes spell checkers can "correct" things that aren't wrong to begin with. Because of this, you spend some time talking about investing "essential." Be sure to do your own proofreading. No deduction, just me ranting. [0]

      Note: Minimum score for any category is 1.


    UoSI: 2.5
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    • Bluesteel bracers provide an insight bonus to damage rolls, nice combo w/ Incandescent Strike and multiple attacks. [+0.5]
    • Your incarnum overload trick was a bit of wishful thinking; while some may argue that Pounce works with Thunderstep Boots, the soulmeld specifically states one attack. So you burn one of your daily incarnum overloads, dump all of your essentia for the round into the Boots, and get...8d4 sonic damage. Once. It's still something, but you'd probably be better using it on your bracers or Incandescent Strike before going to town with a full attack. [0]
    • It's there, but I can't applaud you for a synergy you didn't even mention. Frightful Shifting+Unbearable Countenance is a great way to attempt getting foes past shaken without giving up too many actions. Granted, you're probably more concerned with pouncing than the one attack per round that this combo would allow (stupid move action for Unbearable Countenance...) While it suffers from a low save DC and the 24-hour immunity clause, you're basically getting it for free, and it would have been nice for you to mention. [0]
    • Besides Incandescent Strike and incarnum overload, you don't make mention of any other class features acquired. [-3]


    CAMDEN DALE: 10 (2.5 average)
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    Originality: 2

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    • The bardadin is a repeated chassis in this round, and a highly expected one at that. [-3]
    • Oh, another charger? Yawn. [-0.5]
    • Using smite as your primary mechanic, however, was an interesting derivation. [+0.5]


    Power: 3

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    • Avenging Strike was an odd choice, given the "Evil outsiders only" limitation. However, it provides a little extra "oomph" in those cases, and fits the flavor of "Outsider champion of light and justice fights outsider champions of darkness and evil" [-0.5]
    • More bard could have provided you fantastic versatility, along with snagging the much-lauded Alter Self. Incandescent Champion makes you an outsider, so you could laugh all the way to the bank. [-0.5]
    • Sure, you can add your CHA to saves, to hit, and damage. But your problem is that you can't full attack with much of this. The to-hit bonus from smite/charging smite only applies to one attack (which is fine, since you have no way to full attack on a charge). The to-hit bonus from Snowflake Wardance affects all attacks across multiple rounds, and it's really your best bet along with the damage bonus from Divine Might. However, your Slippers only activate when you move, so say goodbye to your full attacks. Also, Avenging Strike takes away your swift action (hope you like your essentia where it is), only applies against evil outsiders (but see above), and only lasts for your next attack. Even if you have a 25 CHA (16+4 levels+...5 inherent from a tome, I'm guessing?), you're looking at one shot to deal about 21 bonus damage per round with a +28 bonus to hit. It seems like great synergy, but it's not really stellar output. When it comes down to it, a duskblade with True Strike can do just about the same without any serious optimization. [-1]


    Elegance: 3
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    • one dip [-2]
    • Don't worry, unless I'm missing something I'm not seeing a CON limit on essentia investment anywhere. [0]


    UoSI: 2
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    • You take every level of the Secret Ingredient, but make limited mention of any class abilities gained from it. None of the abilities are showcased, which leaves me feeling like you only took this class and wedged in the incarnum because you had to. [-3]


    AZUKI SHARASS: 12.5 (3.125 average)
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    Originality: 3.5
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    • While we're looking at another Pouncing Charger, at least this one obtains pounce through a method more jermaine to the Secret Ingredient. However, it's still not an entirely new method. [-1]
    • I applaud your thinking on your use of Action Points to activate class features, but see Elegance. Still, you made me go to the books to check that such a rule even existed, so I'm awarding you for that. [+0.5]
    • I appreciated (but anticipated) the appearance of totemist in this round. [-1]


    Power: 3
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    • Taking Double Chakra (totem) instead of carrying Totemist to 11th level for it was wise. [+0.5]
    • Binding Phase Cloak to your shoulders provides some interesting mobility options, and helps to provide some defenses against attacks of opportunity. However, you have to use a move action to activate it, so it doesn't activate on a charge. [0]
    • Bonus essentia seems like a fine feat, but why not take it at lower level? [-0.5]
    • Nitpick: Skarns only have one natural attack, not two...unless I'm missing something. [0]
    • You claim to need little in the way of items, but you've got quite a lot of GP hanging off of you, including some individual items that are quite expensive on their own. [-1]
    • Your final number of attacks is good, as is your ability to pounce with natural weapons thanks to Sphinx Claws. However, your actual damage output is a little lacking. [-1]
    • You wind up with nearly the same number of chakra binds as a straight totemist, and you have almost as much essentia. When it comes down to it, it seems like a draw between a straight totemist (higher chakra binds and enhanced totem binding) and this build (secret ingredient features). [0]


    Elegance: 3

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    • You're using more than 32 point buy, by my reckoning. Even if you STR is 16 (and your DEX is 12) after your racial modifiers, you're using 38 points (6 each for STR and DEX, 16 for CON, 2 each for INT and WIS, and 6 for CHA). [-1]
    • I see why you took Open Least Chakra (a clever way to bind something to your hands while still leaving your 3 binds from totemist free), but it's not the most elegant solution. You're taking a feat at 6th level which opens a chakra that was already open at 5th level. Also, there are no RAW answers to the question of whether this feat gives you a free chakra bind, or counts against your normal bind limit. [-0.5]
    • While I mentioned your “burn 2 action points to reactivate a class feature” idea, please read carefully on page 46 of the Eberron Campaign Setting; you can only do this to activate bardic music, rage, smite evil, Stunning fist, turn/rebuke undead, or Wild Shape. While a generous DM may extend this to other x/day abilities, it's nowhere in the RAW. [-0.5]
    • How are you investing 7 essentia in Girallon Arms? At 20th level, you've got 4 max. With Expanded Soulmeld Capaity, it's up to 5. With totemist's +1 capacity, that's 6 essentia. Am I missing something? [0]

    UoSI: 3
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    • Incarnum Overload DOES work nicely with Girallon Arms' totem bind, boosting both your to-hit and damage for a maximum return on your investment. [+1]
    • While Incandescent Ray is still far from showcased, I'm glad you gave thought to other ways to obtain ranged attacks and presented a reason why you didn't choose the other option. [+0.5]
    • What can I say? Even though it didn't work, I'm glad you attempted to snag the possibility to recharge your class features via action points. [0]

      Edit: As Incarnum Overload was the only class feature truly showcased, you received a maximum UoSI score of 3.



    SALVAGIO: 15 (3.75 average)
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    Originality:5
    (originally listed as 4 due to bad math)
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    • I was not expecting to see too many rogues this round, especially given how the whole “shining champion of good” image doesn't really mesh with the “stalker in the dark” ambience of the rogue. [+0.5]
    • Psychic rogue, you say? A sneak attacker with craven, you say? These two items have become charop staples for a reason; they're powerful, but they're no longer original. [-1]
    • I do like how you moved into fighter for a +3 BAB and 2 more dice of sneak attack (using the sneak attack variant). While some might not applaud your originality for scooping up levels in fighter, it was a mechanically original way to power up your sneak attack while getting you the BAB needed to enter the secret ingredient. [+0.5]
    • I was hoping someone would make use of Umbral Disciple, while carefully weighing the light effects of Incandescent Champion with the sneakiness of the Umbral Disciple. [0]

    Power: 3.5
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    • FINALLY the Psycarnum Infusion/Psionic Meditation combo makes an appearance. As we've seen with dextercorvia's post, this can be optimized to broken levels. While you haven't sprinkled in that sort of cheese, you've got a reliable way to max out one of your essentia receptacles every round with no investment. However, I can't give full points for this in good conscience; as a two-weapon fighter, any round you spend a move action to regain your focus is a round in which you're not full attacking. If your build relied more on standard actions (like say, a dedicated manifester) this combination would have been much more deadly. [+0.5]
    • As a two-weapon fighter, you miss the all-important point of BAB that would have given you four attacks, and you also abandoned the Two-Weapon Fighting feat tree halfway through. Shame, shame. [-1]
    • You say we're going to see Hide optimization, yet we never do. Sure, Hide in Plain Sight is snagged via Umbral Disciple (and it was clearly your whole reason for entering the class), but Darkstalker doesn't ever show up, so you can easily be detected by means other than sight. Also, your Hide modifier isn't astronomically high. While you have max ranks and a +4 DEX, that's only +27 to Hide. It's possible to get your modifier through the roof without too much effort. [-1]

    Elegance: 2.5
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    • You don't qualify for Umbral Disciple, as you only have 7 ranks in Listen prior to entry. [-1]
    • You don't qualify for Two-Weapon Fighting at the level you've taken it, since you started with a 14 DEX. [-0.5]
    • How are you getting an essentia capacity of 9 at 20th level with Incarnum Overload? There's the 4 base + 4 from your CHA, which is 8. Am I missing something? [0]
    • Reliance on a variant from Unearthed Arcana (sneak attack fighter) sets your maximum Elegance score to 4.

    UoSI: 4
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    • Using Psycarnum Infusion to power up Incandescent Strike before a full attack is a great way to use it regularly without actually investing essentia in it. [+1]
    • Incarnum Overload w/ Indigo Strike would only work for one round's worth of attacks, but you are looking at a possible extra 56 damage for that round, so I guess that's nothing to sneeze at. Incarnum Overload w/ Incandescent Strike, however, does not provide +7 to attack and damage...just damage. [+0.5]
    • You...you made Incandescent Ray do respectable damage! Even without Incarnum Overload, your ability to apply sneak attack and Craven damage means you have a useful ranged attack option. Indigo Strike does pair nicely with this (and I like its "double your money" payout), but unfortunately Incandescent Strike does not, as it only works on melee damage. Still, I have to give you credit for taking Incandescent Ray from a nuisance to a useful tactic. However, some Hide optimization would have really made this trick shine. As is, your +27 Hide drops to +7 when sniping, which is sad at 20th level. [+1]
    • Incarnum Overload + Embrace of Shadow = hilarious. Unfortunately, the hilarity only lasts for one round. I love it still, though. Just for lulz, I would have liked to see you get your CHA up to +6, so you'd have a 10 essentia cap when using Incarnum Overload for 100% miss chance on Embrace of Shadow. If you had coupled that with a way to invest essentia as an immediate action (if such a thing exists), you would have won one internet for creating an incarnum-based "NO!" button. [+1]

      Note: I have to stay consistent with my metric...while you mentioned fast healing, you didn't showcase it, so I have to impose a maximum UoSI of 4.

    SIR KAREL: 12 (3 average)
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    Originality: 2.5
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    • Bardadin is a repeated chassis, and a highly expected one at that [-3]
    • ...but Mythic Exemplar adds a little. It's always nice to see past Secret Ingredients used outside of their particular round; I take it as a shining beacon of hope that maybe that particular class isn't so bad after all. [+1]
    • Lesser Aasimars are frequent charop fare when looking for high CHA. Since we were dealing with high-CHA beings of pure good, I expected quite a few. [-0.5]

    Power: 3
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    • While Snowflake Wardance and Smite Evil provide large bonuses to hit, you're not doing much damage once you do connect, what with that 10 STR and no source of bonus damage besides Smite Evil and Inspire Courage for most of your career. Even once the Secret Ingredient is added to the mix, you're doing a maximum of 13 bonus damage on one attack per round (5 from Incandescent Strike with Divine Soultouch + 5 Smite Evil+3 Inspire Courage w/ Inspirational Boost) before considering Incarnum Overload. [-1]
    • While max ranks in Intimidate are always good, stacking it with Unbearable Countenance takes up a whole round of actions to leave your opponent frightened for 1 round if they fail a save and a check. Also, since you don't get to add your CHA twice (see Elegance, below), your Intimidation check won't be sky-high, though it remains decent. Someone who saves against Unbearable Countenance is immune for an hour, meaning that fear is not a relevant tactic against them for the remainder of that combat. Finally, Imperious Command comes online way too late in the build--it would have been a perfect choice at level 9 if you had another way to gain essentia. As a footnote, how are you getting the +43 Intimidate you claim to have? I'm seeing +23 ranks+6 CHA+2 (via +4 bonus to CHA)=+31. Even if you could add your boosted CHA twice, that's only +39. Where's the final +4 from? The only thing I can think is that you took the +4 bonus to CHA as a +4 bonus to the check itself, forgetting that boosting a stat by 4 only boost your modifier by 2. [-1]
    • With the above in mind, I appreciate your nod to Dreadful Wrath under your variant notes. That little feat doesn't get enough credit. [+0.5]
    • Apprentice: Entertainer isn't really necessary, and basically wastes your first level feat. There are other ways to get Perform as a class skill for your paladin levels. I know you mention Flexible Mind, but I don't feel like I can give back any points for that, since it's Dragon Mag material. [-0.5]
    • I was going to dock you for not optimizing Inspire Courage to its fullest, but I appreciated your notes and equipment suggestions. While I would have docked for class-setting material, you were right to mention Song of the Heart (and could have used it to great effect in this build). I'm ambivalent about Haunting Melody, but I haven't played a bard recently without Song of the Heart. Since Inspire Courage is your main class feature, I wouldn't have minded a little cross-setting splashing around, especially since there are no strong ties to Eberron fluff with those two feats. If you were stomping around Faerun with a dragonmark, that would be a little different. [0]
    • Your high CHA and smart gear suggestions mean that, even on your class features that offer saves, the saves are respectably high. [0]

    Elegance: 2.5
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    • One dip. [sets maximum Elegance of 3]
    • I'm not clear on whether the Archetype Advancement of Mythic Exemplar gives you the ability to use marshal auras if you don't already have the ability. Usually, classes with the "you gain +1 level" language only advance class features you already have, rather than functioning as a grab bag that allows you to pick one. Classes that grant the ability if you don't already have it are usually very specific on that point, containing a sentence that starts "If you don't already have..." or something similar. Because of this, I know that I would rule at my table that you don't spontaneously get marshal auras. I know some DMs might allow that, but plenty would not. Because of this, you don't auto-succeed on wand activation, but you're at a +16, which is pretty darn close. [-0.5]

    UoSI: 4
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    • I llove your idea of using auras along with Incandescent Transcendence (and even tried it myself with a marshal/dragon shaman build). However, since some might argue that you don't have the marshal's auras, your only active auras are your Aura of Resolve (situational at best) and Incandescent Aura. While this is good synergy, it's specifically spelled out in the class description. You can indeed continue singing, and that was a good catch. I was trying to think of class abilities that stay active while transcended, and I thought of auras without considering Inspire Courage. Nice catch, as long as you activate it before going incorporeal. Here it would have payed to be a bardblade; you could have popped Inspire Courage as a swift action via Song of the White Raven and gone transcendent in the same round. As it stands, you have two class features that each take a standard action, so this combo takes two rounds. A generous DM might let you activate your bardic music via the Least Paragon's Gift of Mythic Exemplar, but I know I wouldn't.

      Note: I wanted to give you a 5 for UoSI...I really did, but you just didn't showcase the class features enough for me.


    And now...

    Final Tallies After One Judge (before disputes)
    {table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTAL|AVERAGE
    Salvagio|GOLD|15|3.75
    Azuki Sharass|SILVER|12.5|3.125
    Sir Karel|BRONZE|12|3
    Sena|Fourth|11|2.75
    Camden Dale|Fifth|10|2.5
    Ushlaka|Sixth|9.5|2.375

    [/table]

    For the next special ingredient, I'd like to see a return to Core + Completes, for easy accessibility to all participants. Not everyone decided it was worth the coin to snag Tome of Magic or Magic of Incarnum, you know. There's plenty of bad (but salvageable) classes in the Completes...look at Round IV's Stonelord.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2011-04-29 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Updates to Elegance scores
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    I am.... intrigued by that scoring metric.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I am.... intrigued by that scoring metric.
    Care to elaborate, kind sir? Either publicly or via PM? Come to think of it, I think we may have discussed some of my criteria by PM before.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    One thing that jumps out at me is Salvagio's elegance seems curious. You mention a class, feat, and class feature that he does not qualify for... but gets the +.5 bump? Not saying a 3.5 is or is not warranted, but your notes gave no explanation for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto View Post
    One thing that jumps out at me is Salvagio's elegance seems curious. You mention a class, feat, and class feature that he does not qualify for... but gets the +.5 bump? Not saying a 3.5 is or is not warranted, but your notes gave no explanation for it.
    Starting at a perfect score of 5, I deducted 1 point for the failure to qualify for Umbral Disciple (4), as well as 0.5 for the failure to qualify for TWF (3.5). The point about max essentia investment was, for the time being, a question, as I may have missed something, so no deduction was taken. However, I now realize that Salvagio's elegance should be docked another point, since it relies on the sneak attack fighter variant found in Unearthed Arcana, meaning he starts at an Elegance of 4 before deductions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Starting at a perfect score of 5, I deducted 1 point for the failure to qualify for Umbral Disciple (4), as well as 0.5 for the failure to qualify for TWF (3.5). The point about max essentia investment was, for the time being, a question, as I may have missed something, so no deduction was taken. However, I now realize that Salvagio's elegance should be docked another point, since it relies on the sneak attack fighter variant found in Unearthed Arcana, meaning he starts at an Elegance of 4 before deductions.
    How is it inelegant to use a variant in the allowed sources?
    Last edited by Doc Roc; 2011-04-28 at 03:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    How is it inelegant to use a variant in the allowed sources?
    UA is noted in the rules as being possibly worthy of a small Elegance deduction; OMG's rubric makes this deduction explicit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    UA is noted in the rules as being possibly worthy of a small Elegance deduction; OMG's rubric makes this deduction explicit.
    Actually, they mention that they may mention them. My question, however, stands. Why is it less elegant? What is elegance?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    I don't personally consider it less Elegant. However, I know that for judges in the past, elegance has fallen into three sub-categories:

    • Simplicity: While I don't necessarily agree, some rule that the fewer classes, the better, no matter what. Dips are often penalized under this subcategory, and that is why I make mention of them in my criteria. A sprig of parsely is fine garnish. A sprig of parsely, a twist of lemon, a drizzle of chocolate, and a slice of cucumber is just cumbersome.
    • Liquidity: Easily the most subjective part of Elegance, liquidity measures whether the build "flows." Are classes entered and exited at appropriate levels? Are class features relevant when acquired and at all levels thereafter? Does the same hold for feats?
    • User-friendliness: simply put, "would it fly at most gaming tables?" It is under this category that I impose a maximum elegance of 4 on builds that rely on Unearthed Arcana. While I allow it at my table, plenty of others do not (or only allow specific sections). Because of this, players looking to use an Iron Chef entry in their own games may experience some friction.


    Does this help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Actually, they mention that they may mention them. My question, however, stands. Why is it less elegant? What is elegance?
    Elegance is a concept hard to understand in IC. Basically, it depends on the judge. There are 19 previous Iron Chefs defining what elegance is all about.

    Basically, here, it is less elegant because it is mentioned as a possible deduction in the OP.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Everyone is looking good so far. And OMG_Ponies is a fast judge...

    Still, mine could have done better...
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    All of the entries had their merits, but not one of them used the best trick the class has to offer (though at least Sir Karel managed the second best trick). My judging first, and the trick after.


    Sena
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    Originality - Well, Barbarian/Incarnum Blade is definitely not an expected entry, but you are a charging, fear inducing barbarian. And while Vanara is definitely an under-used race, the fact that a climb speed is basically its only racial trait makes it clear why. Total: 3.5
    Power - You are a barbarian. Your incarnum blade gives you a small amount of versatility as far as combat options. Most of your options come from incandencent champion, but you're not doing a lot with those options. Also, I feel that the Threefold Mask soulmeld is something of a waste - by the time you get it, you can get the effects of both the unflankability (through Incarnum Blade) and extra mobility (through blink shirt) without wasting two feats on it. Total: 1
    Elegance - You used 3 sources. And while one of those sources was Oriental Adventures, you just used that for your race (+2). You used 1 base class and 2 prestige classes, and took all levels of both prestige classes. And while it is questionable whether you can actually make use of the Open Chakra feat, by a pure RAW reading, if you don't have the Chakra Bind class feature, you can bind any chakra that you have the Open Chakra feat for. Total: 5
    Use of Secret Ingredient - Well, while the secret ingredient may be the heart of this character, you seem to be focusing on the least interesting and least powerful class features. The fear power is only useful against weaker enemies, and the extra damage you gain from Incandescent Strike is chump change in comparison to power attack. Total: 1.5
    Total: 11

    Ushlaka
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    Originality - I expected Warblade, and to a lesser degree Ranger, but Shifter is an interesting choice, especially given the Cha penalty. Lion totem barbarian is also over-done, especially as a dip. Total: 2
    Power - Shifter/Barbarian is always nice for serious burst power, especially with Shifter Savagery. And you use a few choice soulmelds, gained through feats, to very nice effect in conjunction with a standard pouncing build. But that's really all you've got going here, and while you do manage some nice bonus damage while shifted/raging, you'd actually be doing more with a greatsword, and an extra +1 BAB would net you a 4th attack at 20th level, making it obvious that trading those levels of bloodclaw master (and probably ranger) for more warblade is a better option if you're focusing on damage dealt. Also, given the need to have a significant Con score as well as the concentration skill for this build, more Diamond Mind maneuvers would have been a good idea. Total: 2
    Elegance - Lots of dips, including Lion totem Barbarian 1. You honestly would have done better with Warblade 5 to start, and the Pouncing Strike maneuver, or focusing on natural attacks with totemist. Also, being dependent on a nearly limitless supply of a specific disposable 100gp magic item for your entire career makes things rather dicey. Total: 2
    Use of the Secret Ingredient - You make good use of Incarnum Overload, with a pouncing build and thunderstep boots (though your Cha bonus is pretty low without magic items), and you use Incandescent strike for simple damage boosting. But you barely even mention the other class features in passing. You could accomplish just as much with more levels of warblade. Total: 1.5
    Total: 7.5

    Camden
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    Originality - Both Paladin and Bard were pretty obvious entries, with their Cha focus. The paladin variants are also quite expected. And with the serious optimization you put into Smite, I would have really liked to see Killoren as the race, or something with a racial Cha bonus. Total: 1
    Power - You are a smiting machine. Whenever you get it off, that smite is just going to blow away whatever you hit with it. But you're also something of a one-trick pony, and if you're going to focus that much on a single trick, you could have done a bit better. Killoren would have gotten you a wider bredth of targets for your smite, and if you'd gone for spirited charge instead of Improved Smite, Martial Study and Avenging Strike (delaying Divine Might until your 18th level feat), you could have been doing 3x damage on a charging smite from the back of a griffon by level 15, getting better mobility and damage more often and more consistently. You've got intimidate and unbearable countenance both, which would work for fear stacking - except that it will take both a move and a standard action to render a single enemy panicked for 1 round, IF they fail their will save. A single feat for haunting melody or some other fear-inducing ability that lasts more than 1 round would have made this a serious strategy. That being said, your focus on being Charisma-SAD and stacking cha to damage & attack multiple times is a good trick. Total: 4
    Elegance - It's a simple build, but lots of ACFs and the bard levels feel like a dip just for snowflake wardance. Could have nearly doubled your total skill points by level 20 if you'd started with bard rather than paladin at a cost of ~3 HP. Total: 3.5
    Use of the Secret Ingredient - At least you've got a plan for using all the class feature here, except the fast healing or the capstone power. But I can't help but feel that you're not really using the class features - yes, the incandescent aura is nice and deals extra damage to your enemies, but you could get as much damage from a mantle of flame or a number of spell effects. Indeed, you could get almost as much from 10 levels of Soulborn, and you could certainly get MORE from 10 levels of totemist. So while you might be using the Incandescent champion class features, they're certainly not integral to the build. Total: 2
    Total: 10.5

    Azuki
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    Originality - Straight Totemist. I expected to see some totemist and incarnate dips, but straight totemist is surprise. Skarn is a nice choice, and not often used, although it seems to be a popular choice for totemist for all the reasons you mentioned. Total: 4
    Power - I'd love to give a high score here as one of the more powerful and versatile builds. Unfortunately, I can't help but see how the secret ingredient is actually less strong for this build than taking more levels of the base class. You make good use of what Incarnate Champion provides, but in the end your build is just a bit less powerful and versatile than a totemist 20. I think that if you'd focused a bit more on the Manticore Belt (a high Cha and Incarnum Overload and might be able to pump all 17 of your essentia into it 3/day). Total: 3.5
    Elegance - I cannot find a flaw in the elegance of this build. It's simply core+incarnum, 1 base class and 1 prestige class, with suggestions from other sources. Total: 5
    Use of the Secret Ingredient - While you may have been better off in some ways without the secret ingredient, you do explain why you took it for both thematic and tactical reasons. You cover all the bases (although some examples of how you'd use the capstone would have been nice) and you have a plan for using the various class features. Total: 3.5
    Total: 16.5

    Salvagio
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    Originality - Azurin is a nice way of getting that point of essentia for entry, but you don't rely on it. And Psychic rogue/SA Fighter is definitely not an expected entry. I also like the implied background from your story. This is a nicely refreshing build. Total: 4
    Power - You're very stealth oriented, despite Incandescent Champ being a thoroughly non-stealthy class. Indeed, half the class feature cause you to glow! Speaking of, why in the world did you take my light? Even from a flavor perspective it makes no sense. Still, you manage versatility, usefullness outside or a pure damage dealing brute, and you have a number of options for what to do with your essentia. There are two things I'd have liked to see in this build that you're missing out on. If you'd tried a bit harder with the psionic aspect of the character, say Psi-rogue 5/Incarnate 2/Soul Manifester 4/Incandescent Champ 9, then you'd have been able to take two feats (midnight augmentation and Expanded Knowledge:Bestow Power) to manage the PP recharge trick. Add another Expanded Knowledge for one of the really useful utility/combat powers like Astral Construct and you would be a really serious force. That said, you get some very nice damage, you've got real uses for all the class features, and you manage your party role nicely. Total: 4
    Elegance - No dips, an obscure but perfectly viable ACF, and a web-based base class. There's nothing wrong with the build elegance wise, but it's definitely something of a mishmash source-wise. Total: 3
    Use of the Secret Ingredient - Simply by mentioning all of the class features in your build, you're doing better than most here. You've also got legitimate uses for all of the class features, although it's kind of shaky for a few of them. But you've got a plan for them and Incandescent Champion is definitely useful to your intended role, perhaps not the single best choice but a definite advantage. Total: 4
    Total: 15

    Sir Karel
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    Originality - Bard/Paladin seems to be popular for the Charisma SAD, especially trading the paladin spells away. Lesser Aasimar is a good choice for race, but also to be expected here. I liked your character's story, though, so I'll give you points for that. And Mythic Exemplar was definitely an interesting twist. Total: 2.5
    Power - Well now, this is pretty good. Where Camden focuses on getting the most bang for his charisma (literally), you're getting quite a lot of versatility out of it, as well as the Incandescent Champion class features. Your extensive use of auras helps you break out of the 'I can only hurt this one guy' rut that most melee characters get into. You do a good job of explaining how and why you chose the feats and feat ordering that you do, but I'd like to point out a few things you may have missed, because they make for truely awesome combos. For one, Imperious Command is the single best feat for an Incarnate Champion (and I'm glad someone took it). With the fearsome armor enhancement from DotU, you can literally fear-lock one guy who's standing next to you (move action, cause someone to cower for a round - that means they CANNOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR DAMAGE AURA) while blasting or smiting someone else! For that reason alone, it's probably worth delaying Mythic Exemplar until after you've got 8 levels of Incandescent Champion. Another thing is that Midnight Dodge is a rather poor feat choice here - you could have done better with several of the Incarnum feats, although since damage-dealing isn't your big schtick like most of the other entries this isn't a terrible issue. The only other thing that would have given you a significant boost is the Harmonious Knight ACF from the Champions of Valor web enhancement - it gives you Inspire Courage paladin level times per day in trade for detect evil. This would have freed up your bard music use for snowflake wardance in the early levels. Overall, though, this is a nicely crafted build in terms of versatility and utility. Total: 4.5
    Elegance - In comparison to some of the other entries, your source list is huge. I'm not going to penalize you for FR specific stuff, since you stuck exclusively to that setting, which means you get a pass on lesser aasimar. But your first level bard dip is obviously just that. Fortunately for you, lesser aasimar have favored class paladin, so no multiclassing issues. Overall, it draws on a lot of sources, but that's to be expected from a highly optimized build. Total: 2
    Use of the Secret Ingredient - Your build is definitely well geared towards using all of the class features. Your extensive use of auras allows you to make good use of the capstone as more than a 1/day bypass wall power, taking Imperious Command makes both the Incandescent Aura and the Unbearable Countenance abilities significantly stronger, and the only trick you missed is one that nobody else used, so I'm not going to penalize you for it. This is definitely the best use of Incandescent Champion here. Total: 5
    Total: 14

    I'm going to recommend Sir Karel as Honorable Mention, because he makes the best use of Incandescent Champion overall.

    As for the trick that everybody missed:
    Incarnum Overload (Ex): At 4th level, you can temporarily
    boost the maximum essentia capacity of any
    soulmeld, incarnum feat, or special ability that allows
    essentia investment. This effect lasts for 1 round, during
    which the essentia capacity of the chosen soulmeld, feat,
    or ability increases by an amount equal to your Charisma
    bonus (minimum +1). This ability is usable once per day
    as a free action.
    Incarnum Feats:
    Incarnum feats are similar to soulmelds in that they allow you
    to invest essentia into them, increasing their power. Unlike
    most other incarnum-based abilities, a character can invest
    essentia into each incarnum feat only once per day.
    For everything else, Incarnum Overload is a burst power. But the essentia put into the incarnum feats is determined once, and then that essentia stays in there for the rest of the day, regardless of whether the capacity goes down the next round or not - there's no disclaimer that if your essentia capacity decreases, the essentia in the feats comes back out or is lost for the day. And this is the only way that using Incarnum Overload would actually WORK when using it on an incarnum feat (except in Salvagio's case with Psicarnum Infusion). So I see this as a valid use by both RAW and RAI. If someone had built a character around sticking 10 essentia into, say, cobalt charge while making a pouncing or supercharging build, it would have been pretty sweet. All of the other class features of Incandescent Champion are available elsewhere in some form or another. Incarnum Overload is the only really unique feature of the class, and I'd have liked to see at least one build focusing on it.

    That said, I enjoyed all the builds and good luck to everyone.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Kestrel, thanks for posting your scores. A tally will be posted shortly. As for your main trick that was missed, one possible competitor PMed me that they tried it, but were told that it did not work by RAW. Perhaps they can post a response here to illuminate the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Just a guess as to why nobody used that particular trick, Kestrel:

    "Obvious" tricks that can be considered somewhat cheesy have historically been penalized - at times heavily - by at least one judge. "Cheese should be kept to a minimum" is in the OP, after all. The thinking may have been that avoiding the 'cheese" of Incarnum Overload-fueled feats was the wisest choice.

    In other words, Lowest Common Denominator thinking has its merits.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    @Kestral: The Totem Rager's Totem Rage class ability has a similar mechanic, but explicitly allows you to allocate extra essentia to the Cobalt Rage feat whenever rage is triggered.

    I could pretty easily see a DM saying no to the Incarnum Overload/Incarnum Feat trick. It seems pretty clear that it's supposed to be a 1 round boost. Were I to adjudicate it, I'd probably just add the rider language similar to what appears in Totem Rage to allow a meldshaper to reallocate essentia to the incarnum feat for one round. The next round, the character can reinvest the essentia into their soulmelds, etc by the normal swift action allocation method. It may just be me, but it seems more balanced than providing a 24 hour capacity boost.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Just a guess as to why nobody used that particular trick, Kestrel:

    "Obvious" tricks that can be considered somewhat cheesy have historically been penalized - at times heavily - by at least one judge. "Cheese should be kept to a minimum" is in the OP, after all. The thinking may have been that avoiding the 'cheese" of Incarnum Overload-fueled feats was the wisest choice.

    In other words, Lowest Common Denominator thinking has its merits.
    There is that. Plus, not as many entrants as usual. But I'd still have liked to see a bit more focus on that class feature. Actually, i'd have liked to see a bit more focus on ALL the class features. The class is a bit wacky, but there are some real hidden gems in there if you look at it right.

    @Forged: That would be an interesting house rule and it would make for a more workable interpretation, but the RAW is actually pretty clear. Yes, the boost to capacity only lasts one round, but you only need one round to set the value for the feat for the rest of the day. And given that the ability actually works on feats explicitly, I see that as a RAI blessing from the author.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel404 View Post
    @Forged: That would be an interesting house rule and it would make for a more workable interpretation, but the RAW is actually pretty clear. Yes, the boost to capacity only lasts one round, but you only need one round to set the value for the feat for the rest of the day. And given that the ability actually works on feats explicitly, I see that as a RAI blessing from the author.
    That's fine, I tend to read the phrase "Maximum Essentia Capacity" literally. I'd be more inclined to believe the author forgot how incarnum feats worked than intended for a character to double, triple, or quadruple the maximum essentia capacity of an incarnum feat for a full day. But, that's the joy of D&D.

    Edit: For clarification, I do agree with you. By RAW, it's there. Since the text of every incarnum feat I've seen ends with: "Once the amount of essentia invested
    is chosen, it cannot be altered and remains invested for
    24 hours." It would seem to make you a bit less versatile, which I think weakens one of the keystones of Incarnum.
    Last edited by Forged Fury; 2011-04-29 at 08:38 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #233
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Standings after Two Judges (before disputes)
    {table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTALS|AVERAGE
    Salvagio|GOLD|30|3.75
    Azuki Sharass|SILVER|28.5|3.5625
    Sir Karel|BRONZE|26|3.25
    Sena|Fourth|22|2.75
    Camden Dale|Fifth|20.5|2.5625
    Ushlaka|Sixth|17|2.125[/table]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  24. - Top - End - #234
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    If all goes well, I plan to be done or nearly done by the end of the weekend.

    I promise nothing, because I make no promises I do not know if I can keep. But that is my plan.

    It is unlikely that anything will get done tonight, but tomorrow's pretty wide open, so that should help.

    As it stands, I've got two builds pretty much done and two more with some bits and pieces in them. (Yes, I occasionally jump around when judging. It happens.)

    Edit: It's 6:40 PM (my time) on Saturday. Three builds are totally done, and the other three have been started. I expect to get at least one more build done tonight, probably two. All three is not out of the question, but don't hold your breath.
    Last edited by Zaq; 2011-04-30 at 08:41 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  25. - Top - End - #235
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    I'm about half finished with the last build, folks. I promise I'll be done tonight. I have to run before I can finish it properly, but watch for it tonight.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  26. - Top - End - #236
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    Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it. I wanted to see what weird things could be done with this cool but amazingly weak class. What did I get? Well, builds that use a cool but amazingly weak class . . . and are therefore rather tricky to judge. However, after the skill-counting nightmare that was Dread Pirate, I found it a relief to rarely deal with vast quantities of skill points per level from many far-flung classes. (Yes, I do count your skill points.)

    Sena

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    Incarnum Blade? That's one way to try to make Incandescent Champion look good, at least in comparison. Pity that it's not actually an incarnum class, huh? I do find it humorous that you pretty much said exactly what the book says about IB (that it's a good way to introduce incarnum to the table without delving too deeply). I'm pretty sure we both know that's a lie (given that it's not an incarnum class.)

    Originality: Again, since it's not an incarnum class (yes, it has some similar names, but look me in the eye and tell me that the Blademeld has anything to do with normal incarnum use) and it's one of the only two PrCs in MoI that's undoubtedly worse than Incandescent Champion, I did not expect to see an Incarnum Blade. (+0.5) Vanara also came totally out of left field; not only are they obscure, but they really don't have much to do with incarnum, at least in my mind. Definitely didn't see that coming. (+0.25) Your battle strategy isn't unbearably hackneyed, but it's nothing earth-shakingly new. (0) Total: 3.75

    Power: This build . . . is different. I don't really see any amazing synergy. You're not bad while you're raging, but you're nothing special. You have an awful lot of incarnum feats . . . which are nice in that they give bonus essentia, but are not so nice in that they lock your essentia away and defeat the entire point. I don't see Cobalt Power on your “typical investments” table anywhere. Why did you take it if you never plan to use it? Bonus Essentia could have gotten you 2 extra essentia (you do have the ability to shape two melds, after all, so it's not even ambiguous). I also really do not see the point of Threefold Mask of the Chimera. The Crown bind of the Threefold Mask is pretty much only useful for desperately running away. It gives you horrific penalties, it eats your full attack next round (and since you have 16 BAB by the time you get it, I imagine you care about that a little bit), and since it specifies that the extra move action happens at the end of your turn, you can't even use it to move into position and make a full attack (with or without the penalties). Just shaping it doesn't seem to offer the kinds of benefits I expect from a feat. I pretty much consider those two feats wasted, and Cobalt Power is nearly so. (–0.25)

    The benefits from Incarnum Blade seem marginal. The extra HP really isn't enough to matter by the time you get the Heart bind (40 HP will only rarely be the difference between living and dying at level 20 . . . CR 15+ foes tend to hit really hard, or else just don't care about HP), and I don't see much of the point of the others. I don't see why you took it, honestly. The Throat bind is elegant (and I gave you points for it there), but it's not at all powerful enough to be worth the levels you spent on it, and it seems to be your primary Blademeld bind. In short, they feel like wasted levels. I don't see how you're better off with 5 levels in Incarnum Blade compared to 5 levels in one of many other melee classes. Yes, you succeeded in using it to make Incandescent Champion look good in comparison, but I ask you, at what cost? (–0.25)

    I will say this: thank you for not just assuming that you can get any damn item you please. This should be the default assumption (rather than something I should call out as praiseworthy), so I won't give you extra points for it, but still, after looking at so many other builds that just bake their items into their baseline assumptions, this is refreshing. (0, but thumbs up) Total: 2.5

    Elegance: OK, so, we kind of had that mini-dispute in the thread itself, but even if you got the order of your feats wrong (thus explaining why you have essentia at first level), you're still double-dipping somewhere. You should have 8 from IC and 1 each from Cobalt Power, Cobalt Charge, and Cobalt Rage, which should result in a total of 11, not 12. It's obvious where the error came from, but it's still a not-exactly-insignificant math error in your favor (there's barely an incarnum-user alive who doesn't want another point of essentia, after all), so there's gotta be some flavor of penalty. (–0.25) I do like the mix of Unbearable Countenance and the throat-bound Blademeld for fear stacking . . . very difficult to get the save DCs up anywhere respectable, of course, and the fact that neither has a duration greater than 1 round makes the usefulness rather sharply limited, but the move action of one and the standard action of the other work well enough together and was pretty clever. (+0.25) Your class progression isn't entirely clear to me. Why break IB after 1 and 3? Breaking IC after 4 I can see, but why after 8? If there's any method in this madness, you didn't make it clear. (–0.25) I find it a little weird that you didn't spend the skill points to become literate . . . I don't disapprove quite strongly enough to mark off for it, but I find it hard to imagine that you'd wait until level 6 to become literate if you were actually playing at the table. (Never becoming literate is fine and dandy, but waiting until level 6? Weird.) Total: 2.75

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You kind of avoid the “not enough essentia to fill an Overloaded receptable” trap that other people fell into, but not if you make heavy use of your incarnum feats. You do at least have the option of keeping your essentia free and useful, so that's better than some other folks. (0) I know that you put IB in here to make IC look good in comparison, but I confess, in some ways, it worked. (+0.25) On some level, this build has to be an Incandescent Champion simply because it isn't anything else. The essentia does build on what you've already got (mostly your incarnum feats, but they complement Barbarian well enough), even if the class features don't seem to be astoundingly useful. I just don't see what else there is to say. Total: 3.25

    Final Comments: Incarnum Blade. Just . . . Incarnum Blade. It was ballsy. I'll give you that. It takes guts to say “you think the SI is a crappy PrC? Ha! Get a load of this!” In the end, I wish I could justify rating you a bit higher, but when everything gets added up, it is what it is. There just isn't a whole lot of meat to the build . . . it seems to have IB just for shock value. It's otherwise just a lackluster melee basher.
    Final Total: 12.25


    Ushlaka

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    Sorry, Shink, but I'm with Ushlaka on this one . . . Shifters get a raw deal among races, especially for Eberron. That doesn't make you a bad character, of course, but we'll see how you do. Also, for the life of me I can't tell what flavor of shifter you are. That's pretty important, no? I guess you're probably a longtooth, since you have Great Bite, but you didn't tell me that, and to be blunt, that's . . . worrisome.

    Originality: I didn't expect a pseudo-Totemist. An actual Totemist, sure, but not, well, this. (+0.5) You made a decent use of the shifter race, which is indeed normally woefully underpowered if they want to actually use their racial abilities. (+0.25) Total: 3.75

    Power: I'll be blunt; I really don't like your reliance on items. While 100 gp a pop for those Braids of Dire Shifting isn't much, I question your ability to get the piles and piles of them you seem to assume you'll have; that should be a footnote at the end, not a baseline assumption. Likewise, I don't like it that you're just slinging around stat tomes and +6 stat boosts. Yes, in a real game you're very likely to have them, but honestly, you really shouldn't assume that, especially the multiple maxed-out tomes. Add in the Necklace of Natural Attacks that you're just assuming in your final damage totals, and I see a build that seems to need items to function. Perhaps it can function on its own, but that's not what you showed me. (–0.75) That said, I do like what you've done with the shifter race. You've got a nice blender effect going, and Weretouched Master is a nice class. (Sure, most of your strength doesn't come from Incandescent Champion, but we'll get to that in UoSI.) (+0.5) Unfortunately, Bluesteel Bracers don't help you out nearly as much as you seem to think they do, since they only affect weapon damage rolls and not natural weapon damage rolls (which seems to be where the real money is, as far as you're concerned). Incandescent Strike is a small damage boost for most of your career, but Thunderstep Boots seem to be your real source of bonus damage (aside from, you know, turning into a bear). Total: 2.75

    Elegance: No sources cited? When I explicitly said that failure to cite sources would result in a loss of points? Bad Ushlaka! Bad! I don't have a spray bottle or a rolled-up newspaper handy, so we'll just have to settle for the loss of a point. (–1) I'm sorely tempted to take off more, since it's taken me way too long to hunt down all your feats, but I'm not going to judge in anger. Also, I will mention that you're wrong about taking Open Soul Chakra (not, by the way, “chackra”) at 21st level, since it requires you to be 24th level first. I won't count off for that, but I will mention it. While I'm nitpicking, my copy of ECS doesn't mention “Weretouched 3” at 5th level of Weretouched Master.

    Anyway, I'm not going to count off for your mishmash of levels before diving into PrCs, because honestly, the progression makes sense to me. You went Barbarbian for Pounce, you went Ranger to get TWF without investing in DEX, and you went Warblade because Warblades are awesome. Personally, I would have gone Ranger first instead of Barbarian (since I value the boost to skill points much more than the boost to HP), but I guess that's a personal preference. Your level breakpoints later on do confuse me. You never made it clear why you break Weretouched Master at 2nd and 4th, for example. If there's a method to the madness, you didn't make it clear to me. I really did mean it when I said that you need to explain your methods to me. (–0.25) I do approve of the way that you use Moment of Perfect Mind to cover for your abysmal Will save, given that you needed the points of Concentration anyway. Sometimes it's the little things that help. (+0.25) I've always found the “Shape Soulmeld lets you satisfy Bonus Essentia's 'if you can shape soulmelds' clause” argument to be highly suspect, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Total: 2 EDIT: After reading through the other judges' comments, I noticed that you don't qualify for Weretouched Master. I'm not going to lower your score (I messed up, so you get the benefit), but I will glare at you and shake my finger in a disapproving manner. Tsk, tsk.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: So, um, why the hell aren't you a Totemist instead? You gain very little from Incandescent Champion other than essentia. You have no CHA (no, I'm not counting your randomly listed +6 item and +2 book . . . first, I don't like that you have to rely on it and that you just assume you get it, and second, it feels like an afterthought), so you can't even use Incarnum Overload, which in my mind is the class's signature ability. You pretty much just use the essentia and the occasional Incandescent Strike, no? You do mention Incandescent Ray in passing, which is at least a small mark in your favor, but really, I don't get the feeling that you needed to be an IC. It feels like you just took it because it was the SI. (–1) Furthermore, only taking 8 levels is going to cost you. While it's true that you certainly wouldn't benefit much from the capstone (since you can't really properly use Overload and you don't have the CHA to use Transcendence very well either), I still think you can do better. (–0.5) Total: 1.5

    Final Comments: I saw a very clear focus from you, and it wasn't Incandescent Champion. If you wanted to be a bestial, natural-weapon-using meldshaper, we already have a class for that. I just feel like the 8 (not 10) levels of IC were wasted. You made one of the nastier shifters I've seen in a while, so kudos for that, but it feels like the SI hindered you as much as it helped you.
    Final Total: 10


    Camden Dale

    Spoiler
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    You know, I like your backstory. The more I judge, the more I come to appreciate a really short and sweet backstory. I get a nice little bite of fluff without having to try to keep your character straight in my head with all the others. Anyway, let's get to your build.

    Originality: Two Bard/Paladins of Freedom? I guess if you're trying to justify packing a character with as much CHA as they can hold, it makes sense. Anyway, I see pretty much everything I'd expect on a character like this (Sapphire Smite, Snowflake Wardance, Divine Soultouch, yada yada yada), so while I won't take off for your classes not being unique, I'm going to take off a little bit for not seeing anything surprising within your class structure. (–0.25) Total: 2.75

    Power: I do not like your assumptions about your magic items. While it is not terribly unreasonable to assume that you will have a basic stat boosting item or two at mid-high levels (so while I'm not thrilled that you need a CON boosting item for essentia investment, I'm not going to punish you for it), the Slippers of Battledancing are a little bit dicey. (Also, they don't stack with Charging Smite . . . they specify a move action, while charging is a full-round.) The build should stand without items. This is hardly the worst offender I've seen, but I don't like that you put the items in your baseline assumptions. If you had talked about what you could do without all your stat boosts and Slippers of Battledancing and whatever could have done for you and then said “oh, and if I get free pick of items by WBL, this goes up even higher, to [blah],” I wouldn't mind, but as it stands? Don't make those kinds of assumptions. (–0.25)

    Your feats are mostly to be expected but are effective nonetheless. Divine Soultouch is a superb feat for this kind of character, and Sapphire Smite means that you might be able to smite often enough that you remember that it exists! Divine Might doesn't suck either. (+0.25)

    Honestly, I don't see much of the value of Bard here. Snowflake Wardance is good CHA synergy, but the fact that you have Power Attack for your entire career makes me wonder if it's truly worth it, since it prevents you from two-handing your sword. With your respectable number of smites per day (woo, Sapphire Smite!) and Charging Smite, this seems . . . suboptimal to me. I don't think that you get much good out of it (meaning the Bard levels or SFWD). Dropping Bard would free up two levels, two feats, and two hands. Yes, I'm aware that you think that you get the Slippers of Battledancing, but frankly, I don't think it's appropriate to base your build around something like that. (–0.25)

    Overall, I see a strong T5 or bottom T4 build here. Your tricks are acceptable, but not amazing. I don't see any kinds of good mobility boosters aside from Charging Smite (which is only a stopgap without Pounce, really), so you're pretty much stuck to fighting things that are no more than 5' away from you if you want to full attack. Is it an improvement over straight Paladin? Yeah, probably. Within your power level, you're not awful. Having a Crusader at the table would probably make you feel permanently upstaged, but you'd look acceptable next to a Ranger. (+0.25) Total: 3

    Elegance: You know, as a weird quirk of RAW, taking Devoted Performer means that you have to be LG, even if you're a PoF, because it explicitly says that you must remain LG to retain your Paladin abilities. RAI is so painfully obvious on this one that I wouldn't dream of taking off for it (and would look askance at anyone who would), but it's a weird quirk. Moving on, you forgot to remove Heal from your skills at first level, but no harm done. (0)

    I hereby declare Martial Study (Shadow Stride) to be my favorite 18th level “eh, now what do I take?” filler feat ever. Sure, it might have nothing to do with the character thematically, but 18th level feats rarely do, and everyone can use a free move-action teleport once per encounter. I always kind of laugh at the 18th level feats in Iron Chef builds, because most of the time, you want to take the really important feats as early as you can . . . so despite it being the last feat you usually get, it rarely ends up being that critical or that amazing. MS(SS) is an excellent choice. (+0.25)

    Technically, your build is illegal for your last three levels. Incandescent Champion does not contain a clause that states that you may return to being a Paladin after taking it. Silly? Yes. Still the rules? Also yes. (–0.25) Total: 3

    Use of Secret Ingredient: As I mention in Sir Karel's build, your CHA is so high and your essentia pool is so small that you rarely have the ability to actually get the maximum benefit from Incarnum Overload. For instance, at ECL 11 (when you get Overload), you have 4 essentia and the ability to put 2 into any given receptacle. If you put your typical 2 points into Sapphire Smite, you gain literally no benefit from Incarnum Overload, because the 2 essentia you have left would fit into any given slot without the boosted cap. Even without Sapphire Smite, you have 16+ CHA at that point, so you can boost any cap up to at least 5 essentia . . . but you only have 4. Divine Soultouch also raises the cap, so that's a wash. This problem never really goes away . . . the numbers go up and down relative to each other, but they never really match up. (–0.25)

    I guess this build was pretty much a miniature Soulborn. You get smites (good ones, with that PHB2 ACF), a little bit of essentia but nowhere spectacular to put it, and . . . yeah, nothing really special. Incandescent Ray makes you slightly less frustrated at enemies that are far away, you get essentia to fuel Sapphire Smite, Incandescent Strike is low but at least relatively consistent damage . . . eh, I really don't see anything to write home about. I don't see anything special about your use of Unbearable Countenance . . . yeah. I got nothing. Total: 2.75

    Final Comments: This build was uninspiring. I didn't see anything really special about it. It would be acceptable at a very low-powered table (the kind that takes Weapon Focus for reasons other than prerequisites), but I didn't see any new tricks, or even really any amazing applications of old tricks. It's not the worst CHA-stacker I've seen, but I just don't see much to it.
    Final Total: 11.5


    Azuki Sharass

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    I've noticed that we get an average of one 10/10 build per Iron Chef. It's always a gutsy move, but we'll see how you do. I find it cute that you included the example NPC in your backstory. Also, aren't azuki red, not blue? We clearly can't allow that in anything incarnum-related.

    Originality: On the one hand, I approve that someone had the guts to go for a full meldshaper and risk the “so why didn't you just keep advancing Totemist?” question that's bound to pop up. (+0.25) On the other hand, while your Totemist strategies are perfectly respectable, they're also pretty textbook. Skarn? Check. Girallon Arms? Check. Pounce? Check. Multiattack? Check. I can't look you in the eye and tell you that it's not a powerful strategy, but you can't look me in the eye and tell me that it's anything we haven't seen before. You're a stock-standard Totemist before you're an IC, and you pretty much keep being one after you enter the SI. While the power impressed me, there was very little here to surprise me. (–0.5) Total: 2.75

    Power: Standard Totemist face-eating and multiattacking is always good fun. Totemist and Incandescent Champion actually sync up pretty well together. Totemists can get by with only a handful of binds if they keep getting essentia, and you're one of the few contestants who really has enough essentia to make proper use of Incarnum Overload. 17 essentia is nothing to sneer at. 6 melds, 17 essentia, 3 binds (plus hands)? Yeah, a smart and creative Totemist can get by with that, since so many of their goodies are tied to the Totem chakra rather than the higher-level ones. In other words, yes, you probably would have been strictly better off with Totemist 20, but Incandescent Champion didn't really cripple you, since you still have all your natural weapons and plenty of nice binds. It's not the world's most original strategy, but dammit, it works. (+1)

    Once again, I'm never happy to see an Iron Chef entrant just assuming that they get full access to whatever items they damn well please. Item suggestions are fine, but I'm not thrilled to see you including your Ring of Freedom of Movement and your Third Eye Conceal in your final stat block, let alone your Belt of Magnificence and your +4 tome. Thankfully, I don't think you really need too many of those items, so I'm not going to dock you too heavily for relying on them, but I think you can do better. (–0.25) Total: 3.75

    Elegance: Whoa. What's up with those stats? If the 16 and 12 are pre-racial, you spent 40 points. If they're post-racial, you spent 38 points. Either way, you're waaaaay over budget. You could keep your (pre-racial) 16 STR, 18 CON, 14 CHA by dropping everything else to (again, pre-racial) 8, but somehow I don't think that's what you meant. This is a pretty major error. Not only is it blatantly illegal, but it also puts me in a bind when it comes to fairly assessing what you can and can't do, since you clearly don't have the stats you wrote down, but I don't know what your actual stats are or should be. Don't do that again. (–1)

    As for your melds of choice, you were put in kind of a hard situation. In my mind, the strength of a meldshaper is in their flexibility, so locking yourself into a certain set of soulmelds every day is counterintuitive. However, in a competition like this, you can't very well list every meld in the book, and saying “oh yeah, I just swap my melds as the campaign requires” is pretty much just a cop-out. However, the fact that you set up a standard list but left one of your two Totem binds squishy really earned you points in my book. You have a core strategy to fall back on, but it's not so rigid that you can't embrace the flexibility that really defines a good meldshaper. It was a little thing, but I liked it. (+0.25)

    As I mentioned with another build, you seem to wait a really long time to become literate. I could totally see someone just never bothering to become literate, but becoming literate at 9th? Eh, it strikes me as weird. Not points-off weird, but weird.

    I really would have liked to have seen a typical essentia investment strategy at more levels than just 20th, but at least with a Totemist it's reasonably clear what's going on. Add in the fact that you don't always have the exact same set of soulmelds shaped, and I understand why you didn't go into more detail. Still a little disappointing, but not enough to warrant a penalty. (0) Total: 2.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You know, this isn't bad. Totemist does do a lot of the heavy lifting, but IC complements it well enough that it doesn't feel like 10 totally wasted levels. I could see someone playing this at the table. It's not as good as Totemist 20, as I said, but I don't get the “you were doing so well! Why did you do that to yourself?!” vibe I might have gotten in another situation. You actually make decent use of the class features—Incandescent Strike is a perfectly acceptable way of getting more damage on each of your many swings, Incandescent Ray does a decent job of covering your ranged weakness, and you arguably make the best use of Incarnum Overload that I've seen in this competition (because you have not only enough essentia to actually use it but also essentia receptacles that are worth supercharging). I won't go so far as to say you turned the class into a strength, but you at least prevented it from being a true liability, and that's about all you can ask from a class like this. (+1) Total: 4

    Final Comments: I was kind of hoping to see someone do something ridiculous with Incarnum Overload and the Manticore Belt (a boring strategy to base your entire character off of, but kind of hilarious to do just once or twice), but overall, I still like what you gave me. This may be one of the least bad ways of using IC.
    Final Total: 12.75


    Salvagio

    Spoiler
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    First, I must say that your backstory (and specifically its talk about “illegal non-Vancian magics”) made me laugh, primarily because I once DM'd a campaign in which it was Vancian magic that was illegal, and the PCs were a special ops unit (which did include an incarnum user and a couple psionics users) who hunted down Vancian casters. Also, one of my favorite (terrible, terrible) stories includes an unfortunate mention of an “illuminated silhouette” (whatever that means), so you talking about “bright shadow” made me think of that. So yeah. Fun. On to the build! (One last thing: your mother's cover-up is that she “drank magic-tainted water when she had you as a child”? Your mother had you as a child? No wonder you turned to a life of crime!)

    Originality: The existence of Psycarnum Infusion (I can never decide if that name is cool or stupid) made me expect at least one psionicist, though the Psychic Rogue caught me off guard (I was expecting an Ardent, since they have the easiest time multiclassing). (+0.25) The whole “glows like Light/Daylight” thing definitely would have discouraged most people from taking the sneaky route, but it looks like you did a good job dealing with that. (+0.25) Your psionic powers are very appropriate thematically, which is nice to see. (+0.25) Total: 3.75

    Power: Your to-hit is pretty low. Medium BAB for almost the whole build, TWF gives you another penalty, 10 STR with no Weapon Finesse (which wouldn't really make an enormous difference for a while, but every point of attack bonus matters at early levels), and nothing that really increases your to-hit in any way (no, Incandescent Strike does not increase your to-hit, only your damage). TWF and ITWF with no Quick Draw makes me believe that you're not attacking at range aside from the occasional ray, so you're not really going to have a very easy time hitting. Hiding is nice, but it only does so much. (–0.5) Control Light is an interesting choice, but kind of a limited one. I don't see any way for you to see through your own darkness (so dropping it to 0% will let you hide, but will kind of strand you as well), and it's important to remember that it only lasts as long as you concentrate on it, so it's not very useful for actually getting a good SA off. You're good at hiding, but you're bad at using that ability to hide to actually do anything (since the inability to see out of the darkness hurts scouting, and the need to concentrate hurts attacking or setting up proper ambushes). My Light is similarly confusing . . . it's canceled by Control Light, and if you're hiding in normal darkness, it'll make you stand out like a beacon. Thematically, it fits very well, but it's nonetheless not actually doing you any good. (–0.25) At higher levels, you're also not amazing at hiding . . . Embrace of Shadow is a really cool ability, but it comes online at ECL 14. At ECL 14, if you don't have Darkstalker, hiding is going to be very difficult indeed. It's great for the miss chance, but you're not really that sneaky. I hate that Darkstalker is such a necessary feat tax, but WotC was so free with blindsense/blindsight/scent/tremorsense that late-game hiding just isn't possible without it. (–0.25) Azure Talent doesn't really seem to be that useful, since you don't have that many uses for your PP, but hey, at least it's a source of essentia.

    It's not all bad, of course. I like that you have TWF and ITWF so that the bonus damage from Incandescent Strike actually applies often enough to notice, and you kept up a respectable (if hardly maxed) level of SA, so if you actually get off a full attack, you'll have a pretty good time of things. I don't see anything that'll help you get into position to do a proper full attack, and your low to-hit bonus hurts, but at least it's there. (+0.25) Between Indigo Strike, SA, Incandescent Strike, and Craven, you've got plenty of bonus damage, so I certainly can't complain there. (+0.25) Basically, your build has a pretty cool trick or two, but it's not very good at getting those tricks to work as smoothly as they might. Total: 2.5

    Elegance: No sources listed? Dammit, I told you about that. Your build was relatively easy to read otherwise, but I penalized everyone else for this, so I have to be fair and penalize you too. (–1) I also only count 7 ranks in Listen (4 at ECL 1, 5 at ECL 2, 6 at ECL 3, 7 at ECL 4, then nothing before taking UD), so you don't actually qualify for Umbral Disciple. It's a minor lack of qualification, but it's still illegal. (–0.25) Also, you take TWF at level 3, but you don't have 15 DEX until level 4, so that's illegal. It doesn't cause your build to crumble (it'd be easy enough to swap Psycarnum Infusion and TWF), but it's illegal nonetheless. (–0.25)

    Your pre-PrC life makes sense to me. PsyRogue gives you skills, SA, and PP, while SA Fighter keeps your SA up while you're getting the BAB necessary to enter Incandescent Champion. Classy. (+0.25) Dimensional Pocket fits your fluff like a glove, since it's perfect for a sneak thief. You're not very good at scouting or at ambushing, but I can easily imagine an early-level version of you sneaking around stealing things. (+0.25) Total: 2

    Use of Secret Ingredient: I feel like you thought that Incandescent Strike increased your to-hit (you do mention it several times), and you seemed to rely on that to make up for your weak overall attack bonus. So, on the one hand, you did rely on the SI a fair bit. On the other hand, it doesn't help you in the way you think it does. I'll call it even. (0) I do feel like you strike a nice balance between hiding and glowing, so it's good that you didn't let the SI become a weakness. (+0.25) It was a little weird to see you basically trying to work around your own abilities, but you managed to do it in a reasonably elegant manner. The mix of Psycarnum Infusion and Incarnum Overload nicely solves the problem of “well, I can put more essentia here, but what do I pull it out of?” that has the potential to pop up. Expected, perhaps, but it's by no means a bad trick. (+0.25) Overall, I didn't see anything too amazing, but you really didn't do anything to be ashamed of. Total: 3.5

    Final Comments: I do love the idea of hiding with Embrace of Shadow but keeping your Aura at Daylight levels. Sure, it'll be easy to figure out where you are, but they still can't see you . . . just your light. Nifty. I was saddened to see that your build was much cooler than it is powerful, but aside from the missed prerequisites, it's still pretty nifty.
    Final Total: 11.75


    Sir Karel of the Five Rivers

    Spoiler
    Show
    Another Bard/Paladin of Freedom? There's always something that we see a few of in every Iron Chef, and I guess that's it this time.

    Originality: It's not very often that you see an older Iron Chef ingredient in a new Iron Chef competition. I really didn't see Mythic Exemplar coming. (+0.5) I was also shocked to not see Sapphire Smite in a build featuring both Paladin and Incandescent Champion. You'll hear about this in Power, but at least you surprised me. (+0.25) Bard/Pally of Freedom wasn't technically unique, but it's still weird enough (at least, I didn't expect it) that I won't count off. Total: 3.75

    Power: Yeah, OK, the loss of Sapphire Smite seems like a real oversight. Yes, it's obvious, but it's one of the nicest incarnum feats there is, and it really goes a long way toward making smite attacks useful. If you hadn't taken Extra Smiting, I probably would have just let it go with a comment, but you obviously care about your ability to smite, and Sapphire Smite is just so appropriate. (Hey, at least it perfectly balances with the bump to Originality.) (–0.25) Your 10 STR just feels out of place. Your BAB isn't bad, but until you get the ability to use Snowflake Wardance more than once per day or get reliable smiting, you don't reliably get to add a stat to your to-hit roll. Since most of your early levels are in a clearly frontline class, this is kind of a problem. I really don't like how long it takes you to get off the ground, so to speak. (–0.25)

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you really go anywhere great, either. I have a hard time thinking of 4d6 (Will 21 half) 1/round as a “superpower” at ECL 18, especially since it triggers at the start of your turn (so if they take a basic 5' step away, they laugh at your aura). Free damage without action expenditure is nice, but it's kind of dated by the time you get it. Please note that I'm not taking off because Aura is weak . . . I'm taking off because you really miss your chance to do anything fun with it. The same goes for Unbearable Countenance as well . . . by the time you get it, the save DC is acceptable but hardly stellar, and a lot of things are just going to be immune to fear. Your absurd CHA and Divine Soultouch would have made these halfway decent, but the level at which you get them just kind of kills their usefulness. (–0.5)

    In short, your build suffers from a case of “that's very nice, but what does it do?” You have a really confusing progression of Inspire Courage, but I don't see anything here to really make it awesome aside from Inspirational Boost. (I respect your decision to not cross setting lines for Song of the Heart, but I still don't see anything special here.) You have some minor fear effects, but the duration is kind of a problem until Imperious Command hits the table: both vanilla Intimidate and Unbearable Countenance have a duration of 1 round, so you really can't take a foe out of the fight with fear for long. None of your tricks really add up to a harmonious whole. (–0.25)

    I will give you some credit for Divine Soultouch alone. It's great for giving yourself a lot of miniature Incarnum Overloads, and you've got the Charisma to use it with reckless abandon. Good show on that front. (+0.25) Overall, though, I guess I just don't see what you're supposed to do. Total: 2

    Elegance: I don't like lesser aasimar, but it beats LA. I'll leave you with a stern look, but no loss of points. (0) Using Mythic Exemplar to get Motivate Charisma is downright sneaky (I had to read it a few times to make sure that it was legit), but so far as I can tell, it seems legal. Quite sneaky, but legal. What's not quite so legal is your use of Intimidate as a Bard. Maddeningly, Bards don't get Intimidate in-class, and while you stayed within the rank limits, you spent too many skill points. So far as I can tell, you only did this once and it really didn't mess anything up, but I still can't condone it. (–0.25) EDIT 10 May 2011: It was pointed out to me that Apprentice gives two extra skill points to spend, so Sir Karel is legit on this front. I hereby restore the 0.25 points.

    Midnight Dodge is interesting. At first I thought it was a really weird choice, but with your loss of armor and shield (Snowflake Wardance = no heavy armor and no shield), I suppose it's not entirely irrelevant. It's still pretty irrelevant, but I can at least see what you were aiming for. (0)

    I reall don't feel like your early build flows. The progression of a single level in Bard (which you don't really get to use until significantly later) into Paladin (on a statblock that's not really good at melee combat) into the PrCs just doesn't feel natural. It's obvious that you used Bard for skills, but its other abilities just kind of sit and moulder until much later. No element of your build feels like a natural choice. (–0.25) Total: 2.5 2.75

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You said it yourself: you get into IC really late. I already covered this in Power, but I'm going to mention it again, even if I'm not going to take off for it.

    Also, your low essentia and propensity for locking up a good chunk of it in Midnight Dodge means that you'll have a hard time actually taking advantage of your increased cap with Incarnum Overload. For example, at ECL 13 (when you get Overload), you have 4 essentia. If even a single point of it is locked into Midnight Dodge, you gain no benefit from Overload (and even if it's not, you don't really get to flex your massive Charisma that much). At ECL 16 (when you get Overload 2/day), if we go by your table and accept that you have 3 essentia in Midnight Dodge, you get the same benefit from Overload as you would if you had 12 CHA. (Even without Midnight Dodge, you never manage to reach the cap.) I'm aware of Divine Soultouch, but it also increases your cap, so that's a wash. (–0.25)

    I do approve of the fact that you gave yourself a pile of abilities that will all work when you're in Transcendence form. That's pretty classy. I can't really reward you in Power (both because it comes online way too late and because it's not that amazingly strong), but it's very classy. I really wish it had come online earlier, but I applaud the effort. (+0.5) Total: 3.25

    Final Comments: Your build felt scattered. Everything was pointed at the Incandescent Champion, but nothing really had much synergy with it. I'm still really not sure why you're a Paladin (yes, smite and BAB while sorta-kinda advancing Bard, but I don't feel it), and I'm just not impressed with any given part of the build.
    Final Total: 11.5 11.75


    So, like usual, I saw some things I didn't expect, I saw some things I did expect, and I didn't see some things that I expected. I would have loved to see a grappler, if for no other reason than that Incandescent Aura requires your foe to be adjacent to you at the start of your turn. I'm surprised that no one took Soulborn, since it seems like a natural choice. I imagine that the lack of Soulborn is about 50% because people wanted to avoid the obvious choices and 50% because the Soulborn's just that bad. I can't prove it, of course, but that's what I'd guess.

    I m the one who requested this PrC in the first place. I've always been intrigued by the fluff and, well, negatively intrigued by the crunch (since it seems to almost go out of its way to not mesh with anything). I wanted to see what the collective minds of the Iron Chefs could come up with. Was there gold waiting beneath the surface? Could we pull strengths out of hidden pockets? In short, can we force it to work? After all this, I still don't know the answer. It doesn't seem like we managed to come up with anything groundbreaking. That's not to cast aspersions on our fine contestants, of course . . . none of you filled me with rage or disappointment the way some of the Dread Pirates did, for instance, and there's only so much you can do to turn a really crappy class into an actual build. It's entirely possible that the class just resists optimization, and that there's no real way to make it worth it. It looks like some of the highest praise I gave out in UoSI was “well, it doesn't hurt you TOO badly” or “it doesn't help you, but at least it doesn't really hinder you.” Again, I think that's the fault of the ingredient, not the fault of the chefs.

    For my own part, I noticed that my scores tended to be a lot closer together than they were for Dread Pirate, and while I'm still kind of the harsh judge, I feel like I was slightly less so than last time. (You may not think so, but at least I think I was even-handed about it). Overall, I had fun. I sincerely applaud everyone who had the guts and the wherewithal to enter. I guess I was hoping against hope that someone would discover some crazy combo with Overload that made the whole thing worthwhile, but in the end, I don't think that this class really has anything to offer us. But hey, at least now we know. Congratulations to all our entrants!
    Last edited by Zaq; 2011-05-10 at 08:11 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

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  27. - Top - End - #237
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Actually, I did find a rather crazy combo...

    a level dip in Soul Manifester allows you to invest essentia into powers, raising their ML and DC by 1 (the maximum amount of essentia you can invest at the 1st level of that PrC). Overload+Infusion results in your ML increasing by 2+cha on a given power, which then is explicitly returned to your pool, depending on whether or not a feat or a class feature counts a more specific.

    I actually was planning on doing a Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior ACF route, with Soul Manifester to make up for the weaknesses in the weapon, but it fell flat.
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  28. - Top - End - #238
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    @kestrel404: Azuki's total is listed as 16.5, but the sum of all the categories is an even 16. Which is correct?

    Tallies After Three Judges (before disputes)

    {table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTAL|AVERAGE*
    Salvagio|GOLD|41.75|3.48
    Azuki Sharass|SILVER|41.25|3.44
    Sir Karel|BRONZE|37.5|3.13
    Sena|Fourth|34.25|2.85
    Camden Dale|Fifth|32|2.67
    Ushlaka|Sixth|27|2.25[/table]

    *Average scores rounded to two decimal places

    So, any disputes before the big reveal, Mr. Shinken?
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2011-05-02 at 06:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Wasn't Private Prinny judging as well?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

    Ah, yes, forgot we managed to get 4 judges this round.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

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