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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Dec 2013

    Default Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Spoiler: Cached Text
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    Hello!

    Some time ago Mr. Moron posted a good Astromancer homebrew. I read it and was inspired to make changes, and accidentally ended up reworking the entire thing into a gish instead, with a new casting system attached. I asked Mr. Moron if it was alright for me to post it up here for feedback, and I got his blessing.

    So, here goes. Please look at the end of the post for specific feedback questions:

    Spoiler: Old Version - Preserved for reference/posterity
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    Twilight Warrior

    Spoiler: Introduction and Flavor
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    Holding aloft a blade made of sunlight, a human chants an ancient song. A beam of searing flame pours forth from his blade and alights a line of undead wraiths, leaving a wake of flames behind it.

    Wreathed in dark energy, an elf charges toward a lumbering golem. She alights upon him with a blinding flash of her shortword, then vanishes from sight as she steps into the dim light between two buildings.

    After muttering some words to the sky, a cloaked half-orc slides into the shadow of a tower, flitting up the smooth walls of a parapet. He appears behind a guard standing watch over the valley below. Suddenly, an nearby torch is extinguished.

    Twilight warriors mediate between the ancient forces of the sun and the moon, channeling these forces through ancient incantations to the celestial bodies. They combine their mastery of melee combat with powers granted to them by the light and the dark.

    Mediator of Celestial Forces
    Twilight warriors mediate between extremes of sun and moon, light and dark, action and subtlety. Their power comes from the negotiation between two extremes, a philosophy present in both their combat and personalities. Many twilight warriors lead a druid-like existence, in service and communion with the natural world. Others channel celestial energies in service to a deity. To a twilight warrior, connection to the sun and the moon is tied in the natural transformation between extremes.

    Transformative Power
    Twilight is that short moment between light and dark, just before sun perches over the sky or just as it settles behind the horizon. It signals a changing of the guard, a shift between creatures of the day and creatures of the night. Periods of transition are of special interest to twilight warriors, who observe and sometimes take their part in times of change. Perhaps it is to prevent change, when a proper time of transition has not yet arrived. But when that time arrives, sometimes a twilight warrior must interfere in order to hasten natural transition.

    Creating a Twilight Warrior
    When making a twilight warrior, consider how your character connects to the forces of the sun and the moon. Perhaps your character was raised in a druidic culture and was selected to hold this role. Perhaps your character serves a deity that represents the mediation of extremes. Maybe in your training to become a warrior you were trained by one that channeled celestial powers. Or maybe you were born during a celestial convergence, making you particularly sensitive to astral energies.
    Twilight warriors frequently find themselves as adventurers when they cause or prevent transition, or seek to cause more balance in the world.

    Quick Build
    You can make a twilight warrior quickly by following these suggestions. First, Dexterity or Strength should be your highest ability score, followed by Wisdom and Constitution. Second, choose the hermit background.

    Spoiler: Twilight Warrior Class Table
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    Level Proficiency Bonus Features                Celestial Energy Incantations Known Incantation Slots Maximum Energy Cost
    1st +2 Solar Weapon, Lunar Shield 1 - - -
    2nd +2 Astromancy, Celestial Mediation 2 2 1 1
    3rd +2 Twilight Path 2 3 2 1
    4th +2 Ability Score Improvement 2 3 2 1
    5th +3 Extra Attack 3 3 2 2
    6th +3 Twilight Path Feature 3 4 2 2
    7th +3 Bind Fates 3 4 2 2
    8th +3 Ability Score Improvement 3 4 2 2
    9th +4 - 4 5 2 3
    10th +4 Twilight Path Feature 4 5 2 3
    11th +4 Solar Strike 4 5 3 3
    12th +4 Ability Score Improvement 4 5 3 3
    13th +5 - 5 6 3 4
    14th +5 Constant as the Sun 5 6 3 4
    15th +5 Inconstant as the Moon 5 6 3 4
    16th +5 Ability Score Improvement 5 6 3 4
    17th +6 - 6 7 3 5
    18th +6 Twilight Path Feature 6 7 3 5
    19th +6 Ability Score Improvement 6 7 3 5
    20th +6 Equinox 6 7 3 5

    Class Features
    As a Twilight Warrior, you gain the following class features.

    Hit Points
    Hit Points: 1d8 per twilight warrior level
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your constitution modifier
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your constitution modifier per twilight warrior level after this one

    Proficiencies
    Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields
    Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
    Tools: None

    Saving Throws: Strength, Wisdom
    Skills: Choose two from Athletics, Acrobatics, Arcana, Insight, Nature, Religion, or Survival

    Equipment
    You start with the following equipment in addition to the equipment granted by your background
    ē (a) scale mail or (b) leather armor
    ē (a) any simple or martial weapon
    ē (a) a priestís pack or (b) an explorerís pack

    Solar Weapon
    Starting at 1st level you gain the ability to channel the sunís rays into raw physical form. You may summon a shard of radiant power in the form of a weapon you are proficient with as a bonus action. This weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die.

    In order to attack with this weapon you must expend 1 solar energy.

    Lunar Shield
    Starting at 1st level you gain the ability to coalesce moonlight into a physical form. You may summon a shield in your hand as a reaction. This shield disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature to summon a shield again, if you dismiss the shield (no action required), or if you die.

    As a bonus action you may expend 1 Lunar energy to grant +1 AC to a creature within 10 feet. This effect expires at the beginning of your next turn. You cannot cast an incantation in the same turn you use this feature.

    *Sidebar: Binding to Magic Items*
    Identical to Warlock sidebar of the same name

    Astromancy
    Beginning at 2nd level, your connection to the sun and the moon allows you to invoke incantations. Like spells, incantations allow for control of magical forces in the universe. Unlike spells, each incantation represents a suite of similar abilities that can be modified and grows stronger depending on how you cast it.

    Celestial Energy
    You cast incantations using a pool of celestial energy that shifts between two types: solar energy and lunar energy. You can expend this energy to use Incantations or other abilities. Whenever you expend a point of solar energy it becomes a point of lunar energy. Whenever you expend a point of lunar energy it becomes a point of solar energy. Your total celestial energy depends on your twilight warrior level and is shown on the class table above. You may not expend more celestial energy points in a single action than your Maximum Energy Cost, also shown on the class table above. When you gain a new point of celestial energy you choose if it starts as solar or lunar energy.

    Incantation Slots
    The Twilight Warrior table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your incantations.. To cast one of these incantations, you must expend an incantation slot. You regain all expended incantation slots when you finish a long or short rest.

    Incantations Known
    You know two incantations of your choice from the astromancy incantation list.
    The incantations known column of the twilight warrior table shows when you learn more astromancy incantations of your choice.
    Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one incantation you know and replace it with another incantation from the astromancy incantation list.

    Astromancy Ability
    Wisdom is the key ability score for using astromancy, since the power of your magic relies on your connection to the natural bodies of the sun and moon. You use your Wisdom whenever an incantation refers to your incantation ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for an astromancy incantation you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

    Incantation save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
    Incantation attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

    Incantation Focus
    You may use an astral focus as an incantation focus. Alternatively, you may use your solar weapon as a focus for incantations that expend solar energy, and your lunar shield for incantations that expend lunar energy.

    Celestial Mediation
    Starting at 2nd level you can mediate between the powers of the sun and the moon within yourself. As an action you may evenly divide your celestial energy between Solar and Lunar energy. If your total celestial energy is odd, you choose the type for one energy point.

    Twilight Path
    Starting at 3rd level you can call on the unique power that flows between the times when the Sun and the Moon rule the sky. You can choose a single path to follow: The Path of Dusk or the Path of Dawn, both detailed at the end of the class description. Your path grants you benefits at 3rd, 6th, 10th, and 18th levels.

    Extra Attack
    Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

    Bind Fates
    Starting at 7th level, you may expend 1 lunar energy to create a warding bond between yourself and a willing creature within 10 feet as a bonus action. The target gains a +1 bonus to AC and saving throws, and it has resistance to all damage. Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage. This effect expires at the beginning of your next turn. This feature ends if you drop to 0 hit points.

    Solar Strikes
    At 11th level, strikes with your solar weapon are suffused with energy. When you hit a creature with your solar weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.

    Constant as the Sun
    At 14th level, the sun both guides and sustains you. During a forced march you do not gain exhaustion if you are in the sunlight for at least one hour each day. Moreover, in bright light you are not hindered by non-magical terrain.

    Inconstant as the Moon
    Beginning when you reach 15th level, the moon may alter your fate. When you roll a d20, you may choose to roll the die again and use that result before the outcome is determined. You must keep the second result. You canít use this ability again until you complete a short rest.

    Equinox
    At 20th level, your midway path grants you additional power when you need it most. As a bonus action, you may gain a temporary pool of celestial energy points that are the reverse values of your current celestial energy pool. An incantation uses these points before your usual pool, and they are removed when they are expended. This temporary pool lasts for one hour. You canít use this ability again until you complete a long rest.

    Spoiler: Twilight Paths
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    Your twilight path represents your transformative powers between extremes, and your mediation between them Ė light becoming darkness, or darkness becoming light.

    Path of Dusk
    During dusk the day closes and night starts to begin. Dusk is gentle, mysterious, and subtle. Dusk is the time for loverís words, revelry, and the emergence of nocturnal creatures that hide from the sun. As a warrior of the Path of Dusk, you focus your energies on the transformation of light into darkness and the energy of the day as it fades into cool night.

    Rising Moon
    At 3rd level you focus your energies on the transformation from the light of day to the dark of night. Whenever you expend solar energy you may convert one additional point of solar energy into lunar energy.

    Eventide Gifts
    At 3rd level, you gain gifts from the moon to make you more suited for dusk. You gain proficiency in the Stealth skill and darkvision in a 60-foot radius.

    Extinguish
    At 6th level, if you expend lunar energy on an ability that would deal radiant damage you can instead cause that ability to deal necrotic damage.
    Also, as an action you may choose a non-magical flame or source of light that fits within a 5-foot cube and is within 60 feet. The flames or light source within the cube is immediately extinguished.

    Shroud
    At 10th level you may shroud a nearby area from perception. Target a number of objects and creatures that fit within a 10-foot-radius sphere that is within 30 feet. For 10 minutes, when targets are within the sphere they are invisible. This effect ends if a target casts a spell on an unwilling creature, or deals damage. You canít use this ability again until you complete a long rest.

    Mounting Darkness
    At 18th level, you can conjure a region of midnight that travels with your person. This 30-foot-radius sphere darkens to dim light. Enemies with darkvision see this area as dim light, and nonmagical light canít illuminate it. Enemies that enter or start their turn in this area must make a Wisdom saving throw equal to your incantation save DC or are blinded for one round, and allies within this area have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks.

    Path of Dawn
    Each dawn heralds a new day. It is the cleansing of the night and the promise of new things to come. It is sudden, forceful, and illuminating. As a follower of the Path of Dawn, you focus your energies on the coming of light to darkness and the transformation of the world when the day begins.

    Rising Sun
    At 3rd level you learn to focus your energies on the transformation from dark to dawn. Whenever you expend lunar energy you may convert one additional point of lunar energy into solar energy.

    Illumination
    At 3rd level, you gain proficiency in Insight or Perception.

    Searing Radiance
    At 6th level, if you expend solar energy on an ability that would deal radiant damage you can instead cause that ability to deal fire damage. This fire spreads around corners. It ignites flammable objects in the affected area that arenít being worn or carried. If a creature succeeds on a Dexterity saving throw to avoid the fire damage, they take half that damage instead.

    Revelation
    Starting at 10th level, you may reveal lies and deceit. Target a point within 30 feet. In a 15-foot-radius sphere centered on that point a bright light shines. Within the light illusions are suppressed, creatures have disadvantage on Dexterity(Stealth) checks, and creatures cannot lie (as the Zone of Truth spell). You canít use this ability again until you complete a long rest.

    Blazing Dawn
    At 18th level, you can use your action to emanate an aura of sunlight that lasts for one minute or until you dismiss it using an action. You emit true sunlight in a 30 foot radius and dim light shines for 30 feet beyond that. This light banishes magical darkness.
    Whenever a creature strikes you, you may deal damage to that creature equal to 5 + your Wisdom modifier.


    Spoiler: Astromancy Incantation List
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    Casting an Incantation
    When you cast an incantation, you choose one step at which to cast it. The incantation includes that step and all preceding steps unless otherwise noted.

    Additional Effects
    Additional Effects are noted by: Ď+í.
    If the incantation is ongoing, the caster may expend the requisite Celestial Energy to create the additional effect. These additional effects require one action unless otherwise noted.
    If the incantation is instantaneous, the caster may add this additional effect to the incantation at the moment of casting.

    Interaction With Other Effects
    An incantation is considered to be a spell for the purpose of casting and interacting with other effects (see Chapter 10 of the PHB). The number of celestial energy spent on an incantation can be considered to be its spell level.

    Components
    Unless otherwise noted an incantation requires an action to cast, a somatic component, a verbal component, and an incantation focus.

    Brightblade
    Solar Energy
    Range: Touch
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

    (1) Target a non-magical weapon you are touching. For 1 hour the weapon sheds bright light in a 20 foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.
    (2) In addition, the weapon becomes a magic weapon with a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls.
    (3) In addition, the weapon deals an extra 1d4 radiant damage.
    (+2-8) When a creature is hit by this weapon, you may instantly deal 2d8 radiant damage to the target, and 1d8 additional damage for every 2 additional solar energy expended.
    (+2) When a creature is hit by this weapon, you may instantly cause your weapon to flare with fierce light. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be blinded for 1 minute. A creature blinded by this incantation makes another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, it is no longer blinded.

    Celestial Blessing
    Solar or Lunar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: 10 minutes

    (1) Thin and wispy flames wreath your body for the duration. If you spent Solar Energy to cast this incantation, bright light is shed in a 20-foot ra¨¨¨¨dius and dim light for an additional 20 feet. If you spent lunar energy to cast this incantation, you gain 1d4 + 4 temporary hit points. You can end this incantation at any time.
    (2) The flames provide you with resistance to radiant damage. This damage resistance can be altered by your sublcass feature that modifies damage type.
    (4) In addition, when a creature within a 5 feet radius of you hits you with a melee attack you may expend one Celestial Energy. If you do the shield erupts, and the attacker takes 2d8 radiant damage.
    (+2 Solar Energy) For one minute all radius effects of the shield are doubled and magical darkness is banished in that radius.
    (+2 Lunar Energy) For one minute you gain the ability to take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action.

    Celestial Onslaught
    Solar or Lunar Energy
    Range: 1 mile
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (5 Solar and 5 Lunar Energy) Casting of this incantation may exceed your maximum energy cost.
    Blazing orbs of celestial energy plummet to the ground at four different energy points you can see within range. Each creature in a 40-foot-radius centered on each point you choose must make a Dexterity saving throw. The sphere spreads around corners. A creature takes 20d6 fire damage and 20d6 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one. A creature in the area of more than one sphere is affected only once.
    The incantation damages objects in the area and ignites flammable objects that arenít being worn or carried.

    Cleansing Glow
    Solar Energy
    Range: 60 feet
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (2) Choose a creature within range. You can end either one disease or one condition afflicting it. The condition can be blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned.
    (3) Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spellís level. On a successful check, the spell ends.
    (+1) The target for this incantation becomes a point within range, and the area becomes a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on that point.
    (+1-6) For each additional Solar Energy you expend, you automatically end the effects of spells one level higher.

    Conjure Figment
    Lunar Energy
    Range: 30 feet
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

    (1) You shape moonlight into a simple figment, as the Silent Image spell.
    (3) You instead shape moonlight into a more complex figment, as the Major Image spell.
    (4) You shape moonlight in a full figment, as the Hallucinatory Terrain spell.
    (+2) You create a fearsome threat or creature as part of the illusion which attacks a target within 5 feet of the area of this incantation. That creature must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save the target becomes frightened until the start of your next turn and takes 4d10 psychic damage. On a successful save, the incantation ends.

    Ebb and Flow
    Solar Energy
    Range: Self (10-foot-radius)
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

    (6) An immobile, faintly shimmering barrier springs into existence in a 10-foot-radius around you and remains for the duration.
    Any spell of 5th level or lower cast from outside the barrier canít affect creatures or objects within it. Such a spell can target creatures and objects within the barrier, but the spell has no effect on them. Similarly, the area within the barrier is excluded from the areas affected by such spells.
    (8) The area becomes as the Antimagic Field spell.

    Empty Sky
    Lunar Energy
    Range: 60 feet
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (6) You strip a nearby creature of the natural forces of solar and lunar energy that course through every creature, causing it intense pain. The target must make a Constitution saving throw or take 5d8 + 30 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
    A humanoid killed by this spell provides you with 2 temporary solar energy and 2 temporary lunar energy. An incantation uses these points before your usual pool, and they are removed when they are expended. This temporary pool lasts for 10 minutes.
    (+1-3) For each additional lunar energy you expend, this incantation deals 2d8 additional damage.

    Fade
    Lunar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: Instantaneous

    Choose one effect:
    ē (2) You become faded in moonlight and teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.
    ē (4) You teleport yourself from your current location to any spot within 500 feet, as the Dimension Door spell.
    ē (7) You and up to eight willing creatures who link hands are transported to a different plane of existence, as the Plane Shift spell.
    ē (7) You can step into the border regions of the Ethereal Plane, as the Etherealness spell. This lasts up to 8 hours.

    (+1-7) For each additional lunar energy you expend when you cast this spell, you can target an additional willing creature within 10 feet, and this creature travels with you.

    Guiding Light
    Solar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (1) For the next 1 minute you are warded against attack. Any creature who targets you must first make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature must choose a new target or lose the attack or spell. If you make an attack or cast an incantation that affects an enemy creature, this effect ends.
    (3) For the next 10 minutes, you have resistance to one damage type of your choice: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder.
    (4) For the next 1 hour you are unaffected by difficult terrain, and magical effects that cause you to have a slower speed, be restrained, or be paralyzed. You may also expend 5 feet of movement to escape from nonmagical restraints, such as manacles or a creature that has it grappled. Finally, being underwater imposed no penalties on the your movement or attacks.

    Lunacy
    Lunar Energy
    Range: 90 feet
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

    Choose one:
    ē (2) You create violent madness in one humanoid within range. One humanoid of your choice within range must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or must use its action before moving on each of its turns to make a melee attack against a creature other than itself that you mentally choose. The creature can act normally on its turn if you choose no creature or none is within reach. At the end of each of its turns the creature can make a Wisdom saving throw to end the effect.
    ē (2) You spawn indiscriminate delusions in the minds of a creature in range, as the Confusion spell. At the end of each of its turns the creature can make a Wisdom saving throw to end the effect.
    ē (8) You shatter the mind and personality of a creature in range. The target takes 4d6 psychic damage and must make an Intelligence saving throw.
    On a failed save, the creature loses their sense of self, and becomes affected as the Feeblemind spell. This effect does not require concentration and has no duration.
    (+1-7) The target of this spell becomes a point within range, and the area becomes a 5-foot-radius centered on that point. The radius increases by 5 feet for each additional lunar energy you expend.

    Midnight Foretelling
    Lunar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (1) You gain knowledge of your future that is otherwise hidden to you, and determine if there are threats nearby. If there are hostile creatures within 240 feet you are made aware of this fact.
    (2) You are also made aware of the threatsí number, general nature, and direction from you.
    (4) Instead, you extend your foresight further into the future. You may ask a single question concerning a specific goal, event, or activity to occur within the next 7 days. The DM offers a truthful reply. The reply might be a short phrase, a cryptic rhyme, or an omen. The incantation doesnít take into account any possible circumstances that might change the outcome, such as the casting of additional incantations or the loss or gain of a companion.

    If you cast this incantation two or more times before finishing your next long rest, there is a cumulative 25 percent chance for each casting after the first that you get a random reading. The DM makes this roll in secret.

    Nightshade
    Lunar Energy
    Range: 120 feet
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

    While you concentrate on this incantation you may, as an action, cast this incantation again to create an additional Nightshade sphere. You may not create more than three spheres, and can dismiss any sphere as a bonus action.

    (1) You conjure a 15-foot radius sphere of midnight within range that darkens to dim illumination. Nonmagical light canít illuminate it. Looking through this area causes the area behind it to appear as though it is also in dim illumination.
    (3) Creatures that enter or end their turn in this area must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or are slowed per the effects of the Slow spell for 1 round.
    (5) When you cast this incantation, creatures within all Nightshade spheres must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be paralyzed for the duration of this incantation. At the end of each of their turns they may repeat the save to end the effect.
    (+1) As a bonus action, all Nightshade spheres become areas of total darkness and silence (as the Darkness and Silence spells). You may dismiss this effect as a bonus action without expending lunar energy.

    Radiant Charge
    Solar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (1) You may instantly move up to 120 feet and you are not subject to opportunity attacks.
    (+1-8) After moving, you may make a single attack. If it hits, your target takes 2d8 radiant damage for each additional solar energy you expend.
    (+1) Target a creature within 5 feet of you at the end of your movement. That creature must make a Constitution saving throw or be stunned for one round.
    (+2) You may use the movement provided by this incantation to fly.

    Sanctify
    Solar Energy
    Range: Self

    Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes
    (2) You shed dim light in a 5-foot radius. Choose one or more of the following types of creatures: celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, or undead. Creatures of those types have disadvantage on attack rolls against you. You canít be charmed, frightened, or possessed by them. If you become charmed, frightened, or possessed by such a creature, the you have advantage on any new saving throw against the relevant effect.
    (4) For the duration, you have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects. When you succeed on a saving throw made against a spell or magical effect that allows you to make a saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw.
    (+7) For one minute, you have advantage on all saving throws, and all creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against you until the incantation ends. In addition, when a creature hits you with a melee attack the attacker must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the spell ends.
    (+1) As a bonus action, the area of this incantation becomes all creatures within a 15-foot-radius sphere centered on your current location. Chosen creature types canít willingly (choose one: enter or leave) the area by nonmagical means. If the creature attempts to otherwise cross the circle, it must first succeed on a Charisma saving throw.
    (+1) If you are within the area of the incantationís effect, you may use a bonus action to change the area of the effect to Ďselfí.

    Solar Storm
    Solar Energy
    Range: 150 feet
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (6) A storm made of pure solar energy appears in a location you choose within range. The area of the storm consists of up to ten 10-foot-cubes, which you can arrange as you wish. Each cube must have at least one face adjacent to the face of another cube. Each creature in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 6d10 radiant damage on a failed save.
    (+1-3) For each additional solar energy you expend, this incantation deals 1d10 additional damage.

    Searing Beam
    Solar Energy
    Range: 100 feet
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (1) You unleash a beam of radiant energy forming a line 100 feet long and 5 feet wide in a direction you choose. Each creature in the line must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 2d6 radiant damage on a failed save.
    (+2-8) For every 2 additional solar energy you expend, the initial casting of this incantation deals 3d6 additional damage.
    (+2-8) A blaze of solar energy trails in the wake of the beam and lasts for 5 rounds. The wake is 10 feet high and 5 feet wide. When a creature ends its turn within 10 feet of the blaze or enters that area for the first time on a turn, they must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 4d6 radiant damage. This damage increases by 1d6 for each additional solar energy you expend beyond two.

    Shadow Bind
    Lunar Energy
    Range: 60 feet
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
    (2-9) Target a creature within range whose shadow you can see. The target must make a Strength saving throw or be restrained by their shadow. At the end of each of their turns they may attempt a Strength saving throw against your incantation save DC. On a success, it frees itself. For each lunar energy that you expend above 2, you may target an additional creature with this incantation.
    (+1-9) While a target is bound, you can encourage the shadows to become suddenly violent. Bound creatures take 2d8 slashing damage. For each additional lunar energy expended one additional shadow becomes violent and shadows deal an additional 1d8 damage.

    Shadow Shape
    Lunar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

    (1) You have invisibility in areas of dim illumination or darkness. Anything you are wearing or carrying is invisible as long as it is on your person. This incantation ends if you attack or cast an incantation.
    (2) You gain the ability to move up, down, and across vertical surfaces and upside down along ceilings. You also gain a climbing speed equal to your walking speed. You cannot be tracked except by magical means.
    (3) You can pass through small holes, narrow openings, and even mere cracks, although you treat liquids as though they were solid surfaces. You have resistance to nonmagical damage, and advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution saving throws.
    (6) This incantation affects 9 additional targets.
    (+1) As a bonus action, you may teleport to a space of dim illumination or total darkness within 60 feet.
    (+4) For one minute, this incantation does not end if you attack or cast an incantation.

    Slumber
    Lunar Energy
    Range: 60 feet
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

    (1) You cause a nearby creature to fall into a deep magical sleep. The target creature must make a Wisdom saving throw or fall unconscious. A creature that is already sleeping has disadvantage on this saving throw. Undead and creatures immune to being charmed automatically succeed this saving throw. The creature can reattempt this saving throw with advantage when it takes damage.
    (3) You may conjure a nightmare within the targetís dreams, causing the target to take 2d6 psychic damage on each of your turns until this incantation ends. A creature does not reattempt their saving throw due to this damage. You cannot reduce a creature to 0 hit points is this way.
    (4) You also inspire the phantasmal echo of a nightmare that lasts the duration of the targetís sleep. The target creature is prevented from gaining any benefit from that rest.

    Solar Blast
    Solar Energy
    Range: 60 feet
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (1) Choose a point within range. Creatures within a 5-foot radius sphere of that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d6 radiant damage on a failed save.
    (+1) Creatures that fail their saving throw are pushed 10 feet away from the edge of the affected radius.
    (+1) The area of this spell becomes a 5-foot-radius, 100-foot-tall cylinder.
    (+1-8) This incantation deals 3d6 additional damage, and 1d6 for every additional solar energy expended beyond 1.

    Solar Sphere
    Solar Energy
    Range: 60 feet
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

    While you concentrate on this incantation, you may summon an additional sphere for double the energy cost of the original effect. You may not have more than three Solar Spheres, and may dismiss one as a bonus action. This incantation ends if you do not control a solar sphere.

    (1) You conjure a 5-foot diameter sphere of sunlight within range. The globe sheds dim light in a 20-foot radius. As a bonus action, you can move the globe up to 60 feet to a new location within range.
    (2) The sphere ignites in searing radiant energy. Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the sphere or passes through the sphereís space must make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 2d6 radiant damage on a failed save. If you ram the sphere into a creature, that creature must make a saving throw against the sphereís damage, and the sphere stops moving this turn. The sphere sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.
    (+3) You may detonate one sphere for every 3 solar energy you expend, ending its effect. Each creature within a 20-foot radius of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 7d6 radiant damage on a failed save.

    Sunbeam
    Solar Energy
    Range: Varies (see below)
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

    (6) You may cast this incantation as a bonus action. For the duration, a mote of brilliant radiance shines in your hand. It sheds bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. This light is sunlight. Choose an additional effect below and immediately activate it at no cost.
    (+1) A beam of brilliant light flashes out from your hand in a 5-foot-wide, 60-foot-long line. Each creature in the line must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creatures takes 6d8 radiant damage and is blinded until your next turn. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage and isnít blinded by this spell. Undead and oozes have disadvantage on this saving throw.
    (+1) You briefly form the sunbeam into a trailing line of light. Make a melee spell attack against a target within 10 feet. The target takes 4d8 radiant damage on a hit. Also, enemies within 5 feet of the target (including the target) must succeed on a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save they take 4d8 radiant damage and cannot take reactions or bonus actions until your next turn.

    Sunburst
    Solar Energy
    Range: 150 feet
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (6) Brilliant sunlight flashes in a 30-foot radius centered on a point you choose within range. Each creature in that light must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 8d6 radiant damage and is blinded for 3 rounds. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage and isnít blinded by this incantation. Undead and oozes have disadvantage on this save.
    A creature blinded by this spell makes another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns.
    This spell dispels any darkness in its area that was created by a spell.
    (+1) The area of this spell increases by 30 feet.
    (+1) Targets are suffused in radiant energy, and they take 2d6 damage on each of their turns while they are blinded.
    (+1-3) The damage of this incantation increases by 2d6 and targets are blinded for three additional rounds for each additional solar energy you expend.

    Umbral Strike
    Lunar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: Instantaneous

    (1) You may instantly cast this incantation if you have advantage on a melee attack roll, and you hit with that attack. The target takes 1d8 additional radiant damage.
    (+1 or +4) If you expend 1 additional lunar energy, the target humanoid must make a Wisdom saving throw or become paralyzed for 3 rounds. At the end of each of its turns, the target may make another Wisdom saving throw. On a success, the target is no longer paralyzed. If you expend 4 additional lunar energy, this may affect any creature.
    (+1-9) For each point of lunar energy you expend the target takes an additional 2d8 radiant damage

    Witching Sight
    Lunar Energy
    Range: Self
    Duration: 1 hour

    (1) You gain darkvision in a 120 foot radius. Additionally, you may see magic with your sight as the Detect Magic spell.
    (2) You see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent.
    (3)You can see normally in magical darkness.
    (5) You gain truesight.
    (9) You gain a limited ability to see into the immediate future. For the duration, you canít be surprised and have advantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. Additionally, other creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against you for the duration. Your Witching Sight lasts for 8 hours.
    (+4) You extend your sight to your shadow, which can separate from your body. When you do, your body goes into a trance and you may not perform any actions except the movement of your shadow. As an action, you can move your shadow up to 60 feet on any surface. A solid barrier and liquids blocks your movement, but your shadow can pass through an opening as small as 1 inch in diameter. Your shadow has invisibility in areas of dim light and darkness, and advantage on stealth checks. You may end this sight without expending an action.


    Spoiler: Design Notes
    Show
    Here's some notes on my design philosophy:
    Transformation
    The theme is now not only balance, but transformation from dark to light or light to dark. This seemed more specific.
    Celestial Energy
    As noted by Mr. Moron in his original post, celestial energy regulates tempo, not power output. It puts limits on the types of spells that may be cast in a row, but not on the number that can be cast before another short rest.
    Bladelock/Paladin Influence
    I took much of my balancing guidance from the warlock and paladin classes, and this is meant to be approximately on par. Short rest casting, but more blatantly martial than a bladelock encouraged my decisions.
    Incantations
    A new base class brings the possibility of an altered casting system. My hope was to make casting more modular and scale-able with level. An incantation represents a suite of similar spells, which may be altered in power and effect by expending additional celestial energy.
    Incantations allow more energy to be expended than 5. I have also written an Astromancer base class that uses full casting, but I shall post that at a later date.


    Links to Present Versions (PDFs):
    Twilight Warrior
    Astromancy Incantations

    Please give me some general feedback, but here's some specific questions I'd like you to consider:
    1) Does this strike you as unusually overpowered/underpowered compared to PHB classes?
    2) Are any of the features woefully unexciting?
    3) I tinker with a lot of things here - does it make sense, and is it reasonable?

    Thanks!

    An updated version of this homebrew lies in my signature. Let me know if you have any questions!
    Last edited by zeek0; 2017-04-26 at 08:46 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    You have two strong saving throws. Fix that.

    Your class abilities are out of order. You have a 2nd level feature before 1st level features. (Nitpicky, I know, but it's confusing.)

    Solar Weapon should allow for two weapons, in case you want to TWF. Nevermind, this is a Sword and Board class.

    +1 AC is fine, just so long as you can't get Defensive Fighting Style.

    Twilight Paths have you gaining features at the wrong levels.

    Illumination should be one skill or the other, not both.

    Overall... Seems good. I didn't really take a close look at the spell list (I'm not a spell guy) but it seems cool. Nothing too radically new, but feels balanced and thematic.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew and a Patreon for it

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Thanks JNA. I've fixed the formatting issues, and mistakes I made as this went through multiple iterations.

    I've changed the 'and' for Illumination to an 'or'. I suppose that both Insight and Perception are both quality skills, and will be boosted by wisdom already.

    I've also changed the saving throws to str and wis. I can imagine this class being dexterous, but I suppose that no matter what they will have some fighting strength.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    Incantation Focus
    To cast an incantation that requires solar energy you must be wielding your solar weapon. To cast an incantation that requires lunar energy you must be carrying your lunar shield. Both these focuses account for the somatic component of incantations.
    I like it except for this part. Requiring a shield pretty much excludes all use of a two-handed weapon.

    I know AC is really important in the confines of bounded accuracy, but some of us just love our two-handers!!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    I like it except for this part. Requiring a shield pretty much excludes all use of a two-handed weapon.

    I know AC is really important in the confines of bounded accuracy, but some of us just love our two-handers!!
    I never really considered this class not going sword and board... but I do see the value in leaving things open for different styles.

    For now, I'm changing it so that you need an 'astral focus', and your solar weapon counts as such for solar incantations and your lunar shield for lunar incantations.

    Thanks!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    I never really considered this class not going sword and board... but I do see the value in leaving things open for different styles.

    For now, I'm changing it so that you need an 'astral focus', and your solar weapon counts as such for solar incantations and your lunar shield for lunar incantations.

    Thanks!
    Sounds good to me! I like it.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    And, now that I really look at it, nothing I've written precludes using a longbow as your solar weapon...

    I think that I'll leave it as it is. I think that a ranged twilight warrior could be pretty cool.

    I may even add in a part to Solar Weapon that allows for the summoning of arrows...


    See, that's why I post here. I get all these cool new ideas.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    And, now that I really look at it, nothing I've written precludes using a longbow as your solar weapon...

    I think that I'll leave it as it is. I think that a ranged twilight warrior could be pretty cool.

    I may even add in a part to Solar Weapon that allows for the summoning of arrows...


    See, that's why I post here. I get all these cool new ideas.
    Great idea! I totally thought of the movie "Immortals" when I read that. See at 1:08 in the trailer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VdONYkKFmQ

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
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    d20 Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    This is really cool, I like the concept a lot. There is one thing I could use clarification on, maybe if I wasn't so new to 5e I would know already. This incantation system that you use.... "To cast one of these incantations, you must expend an incantation slot. You regain all expended incantation slots when you finish a long or short rest." .... Is that to say that even at level 20, you can only use 3 incantations between rests? That seems like incredibly limited power, especially since the bulk of the rest of the class features also relate to these celestial energy points. Additionally, at a glance the number of celestial energy points seems very limited. At level 20 you start the day with 6 points, and if evenly distributed you have 3 of each type to play with. I can use all of my starting sun points to get:

    Target a non-magical weapon you are touching. For 1 hour the weapon sheds bright light in a 20 foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet. In addition, the weapon becomes a magic weapon with a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls. In addition, the weapon deals an extra 1d4 radiant damage.

    Which for sure is a cool effect. But at level 20, even if all 6 of my points are sun at the time, I'm using HALF of them for that. and expending one of my 3 incantation slots. I dunno. I could be misreading the intent of your words, and be digging a hole for myself. I'm very interested in hearing the clarification though, as I like the concept a lot and would play it if it ends up seeming viable. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Name wise I would change Constant as the Sun and Inconstant as the Moon to Solar Consistency and Lunar Volatility.

    But that is just personal taste.
    I am the have left this site.

    Credits: JNAProductions and AvatarVecna.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Dean:

    This is really cool, I like the concept a lot.
    Thanks for the compliments.

    If you say you are confused, I know as a teacher that most other people are confused but didn't mention it.

    Celestial Energy Pool:
    The celestial energy pool is never spent, it only transforms. If you expend two lunar energy points, they become solar energy points. This means that this mechanic regulates how often you lunar energy spells before you cast a solar energy spell, but not how many you cast.

    Incantation Slots:
    My intention with incantation slots is that this class be a half-caster (like the paladin or ranger), but refresh their slots on a short rest (like a warlock).
    The DMG recommends 2 short rests per day. That means that a level 8 twilight warrior can cast 6 2nd-level spells per day. A paladin can cast 3 2nd-level spells and 4 1st-level spells each day. So they are moderately comparable.

    Formless Entity:
    The names of both features are an oblique and obnoxious reference to Romeo and Juliet.

    Spoiler: Act II, Scene II
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    ROMEO
    Lady, by yonder blessed moon I swear
    That tips with silver all these fruit-tree tops --

    JULIET
    O, swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon,
    That monthly changes in her circled orb,
    Lest that thy love prove likewise variable.


    I hope that answers your questions. If you end up using this homebrew, I'd love to hear how it works in practice.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Hmm. That makes a good deal of sense. The only issue that arises is if you have either a stingy or generous DM as far as short rests go. I personally am a little sketched out by the idea that my power comes from every time I take a short breather. Would it be comparable to make it the same number of them, just on a per day basis instead of a per rest basis? ex at level 8 you just have all 6 slots from the start of the day instead of refreshing after a rest. Does that imbalance the class terribly?

    Either way, I'm pretty set on playing this for our upcoming campaign, I'll be sure to report back on how it performs alongside the other characters.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Great! I'm glad that you intend to try it out.

    The possible problem with allowing 6 max level spells to be cast per day is the same as the warlock - they could blow it all on one climactic combat instead of throughout the adventure. Refreshing after a short rest forces a character to cast spells throughout the adventuring day.

    It comes down to this: how much do you trust your DM to follow, on average, the DMG's recommendation for short rests? It may be worth having a conversation with your DM about it before you play.

    If you would like to convert this into a version that involves long rests, then simply graft a half-caster progression onto it. I find this less aesthetic, but it is just as mechanically sound and balanced.

    Oh, and if you are entertained by this base class, here is it counterpart: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ht=astromancer

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    I understand. I forgot that they're all theoretically max level. The scenario I was thinking of is that maybe sometimes you want to use a low-level effect as a utility, but are afraid to waste one of your precious slots. That said, I guess part of it is just weighing that utility vs what else you could use it for.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    One final question. I'm looking around the player's handbook and can't find the binding to magic items sidebar. Could you clarify what it is you're referring to?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    No problem!

    I don't have access to my book at the moment, but the sidebar I am thinking of is in the warlock class, near the Pact of the Blade option. It describes how you can use a magical weapon as your pact weapon, and shunt it away into an extra dimensional space when you aren't using it. Just replace all references to "pact blade" with "solar weapon or lunar shield".

    Let me if that clears it up, or if you have more questions.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Surprise surprise, it's Dean again. I've played most of a session with a lvl 1 twilight warrior with one group, and 7 hours of a 5th level bladesinging wizard with a diff group. I'm all about gishing, it seems.

    With a little more familiarity under my belt and a reread of the class, I'm still very much excited about exploring this class. The one place I'm most confused now is the number of celestial points an enterprising young warrior has to pull from. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding the intent of your words, but it appears at level 20, for example, one has a total pool of 6 celestial points. Now I'm looking at many of the incantations, and seeing many cost more than 6, or can be made to do so in theory. The only two sources of additional points I see are the capstone and one small boost from a single incantation. Guide me to clarity, oh yee of mighty knowledge!

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Grasshopper, the class was made to be but a half-caster. It is forbidden to expend more celestial energy than is revealed in the class table under the final heading: 'maximum energy cost'.

    --

    When I was making the class, I equated celestial energy expenditure with spell level. So a third level spell is comparable to using 3 celestial energy.

    I also made an Astromancer class, which is pasted in my signature. They are a full caster, and can expend 9 celestial energy points at later levels.

    On another note, I'm fantastically glad you are playing a class I made!

    I hate to bother you overmuch. But I'd love to know your character's back story, and continuing snippets if anything cool happens. And, of course, mechanical concerns. You can PM me so we don't clutter this thread.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Dean here again, this time with no questions and only balance concerns/comments. I hope you really did want feedback . To be clear, I'm giving honest feedback with no intent to make you feel either small or large, simply hoping to help you make this class even better than it already is.

    Ok, so the class is a halfcaster. The ones WotC have released thus far are the paladin and the ranger, and as you yourself have compared this to the paladin, I'll just use that as a bouncing board. I totally understand that they're by no means accomplishing the same goals necessarily, just that they should have similar power distribution in theory, and I'm afeared the TW is underpowered, of all things. So.

    Below are the basics that every class share. Paladin has advantages in most of the categories, but if the power is sufficiently represented elsewhere, not a biggy.
    Spoiler: The Basics Compared
    Show

    Hit die: Paly d10 > TW d8
    Armor: Paly All armor/shields > TW light/medium/shields
    Weaps: Paly simp, mart == TW simp, mart
    Starting Equipment: Paly 4 items > TW 3
    Skills: Paly 2 == TW 2

    Next, the big one for the TW with less of a focus for the paladin- spells. While the paladin does have more castings per day by the mid levels, the TW takes the cake with ease for potential levels out of their spells, with the assumption of 2 short rests. One BIG thing to note is that every paladin can prepare from the entire paladin spell list (45 spells, not including oath spells) and end up having 13 prepared spells at level 20 with a charisma of 16, whereas the TW ends up knowing only 7 from your awesome list of incantations (25, by my count).

    Spoiler: Spells Comparison
    Show

    Spells/day and maximum spell levels (one level 1 spell= 1 level, level 4 worth 4, etc) at each level they get a higher spell/incantation level (assuming 2 short rests, one long rest each day):
    Level 2: Paly 2/day, 2 levels; TW 3/day, 3 levels
    Level 5: Paly 6/day, 8 levels; TW 6/day, 12 levels
    Level 9: Paly 9/day, 16 levels; TW 6/day, 18 levels
    Level 13: Paly 11/day, 23 levels; TW 9/day, 28 levels
    Level 17: Paly 14/day, 36 levels; TW 9/day, 45 levels





    Almost done. The less easily compared items- non-spell class abilities. This is where I'd like to raise my concerns, but lets look at the data first and then I'll say my piece.


    Spoiler: Paladin Class Abilities
    Show

    Paladin:
    Level 1:
    Divine Sense: Minor, detection ability. Helpful, but not direct power
    Lay on Hands: Integral to the class, by 20th level you can heal 100hp to anyone, in addition to end diseases and such. Big money.
    2:
    Fighting Style: Major perk, non class specific but very nice to have
    Divine Smite: Putting those extra spell slots to use in a different way. Medium sized bonus, 5d8 at 17th level is nice but not enough to stop a wizard from yawning.
    3:
    Divine Health: Immune to disease, situational. Might come up a lot depending on the DM, might not.
    Archetype: I'll get to these separately, but it's worth noting the levels are 3/7/15/20, so you get a capstone from your path with paly
    4/8/12/16/19:
    ASI: standard stuff.
    5:
    Extra Attack: enough said.
    6:
    Aura of Protection: Pretty nice, Cha is the prime steak of Paladins mentally, so that's probably at least a +2 or +3 to all saving throws within 10 feet/30 at 18
    10:
    Aura of Courage: No scares within 10ft/30 at 18. Not as good as the last one, I think, but still nice indeed.
    11:
    Improved Divine Smite: good stuff, 1d8 extra in melee same as what you've got at level 11 for TW, which I approve of wholeheartedly.
    14:
    Cleansing Touch: Boy this one's good. number of times/day just "see that spell? yeah, me neither".

    Spoiler: Twilight Warrior Class Abilities
    Show

    Level 1:
    Solar Weapon: Cool thematically, and lets you spend solar energy, but besides giving you a weapon if you're unarmed and act as a focus for solar incs, doesn't DO anything. Which is fine, just worth noting.
    Lunar Shield: Again, cool thematically, and you need it to spend lunar energy, but this is unfortunate for anyone who wants to dual wield, go ranged, or two hand it. UNLESS your intent was to seperate the bonus action from the shield, and that you can ward someone without the shield being out. Then the only problem is a lunar astral focus.
    The bonus action is nice if you have nothing else to spend it on, for sure, except no incantations on the same turn. Bit of a pain, but since you can really only cast at most 3 incantations per encounter, not likely to come up often.
    2:
    Celestial Mediation: Doesn't do anything itself, just helps you to get ready to do something. As an action. That seems like a steep cost to shuffle around the mana system no other base class has to deal with.
    3:
    Archetype: Again, to be mentioned seperately, but the levels are 3,6,10,18. Worth noting.
    5:
    Extra Attack: Same as paly, good stuff to have.
    7:
    Bind Fates: Hmm. Not sure how to feel about this one. On the one hand, the stuff you give your bro is REALLY good, obviously. On the other hand, while the drawback is fair enough, we T-Warriors are squish town. If we had a d10, this would make more sense, but right now we can barely take hits that target us alone, and don't have the advantage of heavy armor to try and ward such attacks off. The tanking aspect of this ability is a little out of place. Risk/reward, fair enough. Just worth thinking about. It is a very unique ability, though.
    11:
    Solar Strikes: same as paly, except the TW version doesn't have to be melee, which is GREAT for flexibility... except for lunar shield biting our ass, unless it doesn't.
    14:
    Constant as the Sun: Mmmmph. I have the same problem with this as I do favored terrain. It's incredibly situational, and very seldom going to come in handy. Even if you can forced march without penalty, what about your group? Do you just leave them in the dust? I'm not sure how much value once can get out of this ability.
    15:
    Inconstant as the Moon: This one, however, is beautiful. A little RNG magic, but not too much so as to be stifling. 3/day is pretty nice, though I might be tempted to make it Wis mod/day (min 1) to give some flexibility, especially since the big focus of the class, spells, is already on the short rest timer. Just my opinion, though.
    20:
    Equinox: Well, I dunno. I'd have to see it in action, but I get the feeling it's going to be underwhelming. As a capstone, you get to feel like a fullcaster for likely just one or maaaaybe two incantations. Ehhhhhhhh. That's what your other class is for.

    I'll include a summary of my concerns at the end as well as in the above comparison.

    Last item on my list, Archetype comparison. The way I see it, archetypes serve one of two functions with rare exception- to specialize the class further into its own role (like a wizard's school, or a cleric's domain) or to diversify the class and allow it to leak into other roles (eldritch knight for fighters, or bladesinging for wizards).

    Spoiler: Archetypes Compared
    Show

    Paladin:
    3: List of spells known, once/rest options
    7:Aura/Minor Mobility
    15:Aura/Once per long rest/new way to attack
    20:damaging auro/paragon of your class in some way(angel, champion, etc) for 1min/1hr

    TW:
    3: skill/darkvision, and either changing points around helps you prepare to do something else but doesn't actually do something itself
    6: change of damage type, one can snuff out small lights
    10:sphere of invis or truth. These are cool.
    18: bigger dark sphere of blinding/damage sphere.



    The concern I'd like to raise here is with the current renditions of Twilight Paths; the TW doesn't have very much change between one or the other, except which kind of spell you can cast more frequently- which again, is already very limited by design. Beyond that, one skill or darkvision, a change in damage type (doesn't add any power, situational in its usefulness, though nice for flavor), and two upper level abilities, which in theory are very nice, and something I'd love to see more of their flavor and flexibility. The problem with the level 10/18 powers for me is that the dusk ones don't feel that different from each other thematically, and both classes are essentially doing the same kind of thing, just with different outcomes. Both get two spheres that do stuff. I'm not that moved in either direction when its put in those terms (obviously they're cooler than that, but there's a point I'm struggling to make).

    For the class as a whole, consider what kind of identity you want the base class (before the archetype choice) to have within a party. What role(s) does it fill? Healer, Tank, Sneaky, Face, Trap-Finder, Brawler, Spellcaster, etc. If the answer is a large number or "player's choice", fine, but I think it could use more guidance from you as the creator. Off-tank melee halfcaster like a melee rogue or a paladin? Bump the hit die to a d10. Squishy damage dealer? d8 is fine, but here comes the next thing.

    As a Twilight Warrior in its current form, you don't do much. At MAX LEVEL you can cast 3 spells in each fight, which over the course of the day is decent. But the rest of the time in combat you're swinging most likely a longsword for 4d8+Dex/Str. The class provides 3 skills(or two with darkvision) so you're not the skills junky, and Cha isn't important so unless you're multiclassing or really need a face, CHA is probably the dumpstat, so you're not the party face, and you're not likely even the utility spells guy for outside of combat, as you're real nervous about taking away such a big portion of your power to, say, create a minor image, or gain darkvision, instead of using it in combat. Not to mention, a lot of the really clutch incantations are out of your reach in this class, and it leaves it feeling a little mundane in the place where your design prowess shines brightest. The incantations are CRAZY COOL. The fact that they're modular and scalable really add to the experience, like you're building on knowledge you've already accumulated as a TW is neat as sheet. Its a shame to see them all go to your other class at the 6+ cost, and I think that's an area you could explore in theoretically modifying this class, if that's where you feel its power should come from. The capstone has the right idea, but IMHO not the right balance of power given after all that effort to get max level.


    TLDR
    -I love this class as an idea, and come bearing words of peace and harmony and suggestion.
    -The Twilight Warrior feels underwhelming at times, which is heartbreaking because there's so much potential.
    -If you change absolutely nothing, I would at least recommend considering upping it to a d10 hit die. If you do increase power elsewhere, don't have to bother, but right now it's a squishy front liner with occasional damage.
    -The paladin has one more class feature than the twilight warrior, at level 3 (divine health). Worth noting.
    -Twilight Paths should feel more distinct, both from each other and in their own right.
    -A number of features don't do anything themselves, just help you do something else. I'm a little wary of that. Solar Weapon, Celestial Mediation, the archetypes swapping around points.
    -A BUNCH of the features are about the incantations or celestial points WITHOUT adding power or diversity in play to the class. Thematically pleasing, less pleasing on my char sheet. To fix this, I would personally love to see either more options outside of incantations, especially more that utilize the celestial points. Options are really satisfying to make you feel like you're building your own character, rather than playing someone else's. I could easily see this class fitting into the Path of War maneuvers kind of mentality from 3.5, which is a big compliment from me, I loved those disciplines. This is a place where the Archetypes feeling different from e/o could be fleshed out.
    -Learn more incantations plz.
    -Either you have a spell, or you have like, zero spells. That's a bad feeling when almost every other class feature revolves around the incantations/celestial points. Perhaps allow the player more incantations as they scale in level, something like "at level X, the twilight warrior can cast incantations of level 1 without taking from their pool of incantations for the rest. At level Y, they can do the same with level 2 incantations, etc etc", OR perhaps "the twilight warrior can save unspent incantations between rests, up to her wisdom modifier at a time" or something.
    -To me, the Max cost and the number of max incantation points really don't need to be different. Further, if you decide not to expand the number of incantations, I might suggest increasing the scaling of power up to 6 cost instead of 5; but either way it seems kind of superfluous to have more than you can spend in one blow.
    -Clarify the Lunar shield ability at level 1. Can I spend a bonus action to spend one lunar point to do that thing without the shield out? I'd vote for yes, if its not this already.
    -Constant as the Sun is underwhelming in the extreme.
    -Capstone seems like it's a moment of power (like, 6 seconds) and gone. Meanwhile, Barbs are getting fat money to their STR and CON, Paladins are becoming Angels, Fighters have 4 attacks per turn. I like what it's trying to do for sure though.



    I may end up having more to say, but I'd like to reiterate for the final time on this post that I love what you've already done and only seek to help it reach the stars. I mean only the best and have more good in my head to say than bad about the class. Disclaimer disclaimer TM

    EDIT: Didn't want to double post, but really I could see this being essentially an incantation based spellslinger. Full spell progression, leave the d8, take away medium armor but leave shields, and.... you'd still be missing cantrips, which is something that probably also wounds your Astromancer, unless I missed the replacement somewhere. I saw the solar shard too late, my bad
    Last edited by DeanHavok; 2016-08-07 at 09:37 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Dean Ė Thanks for the feedback based on your play experience- I am grateful that you are giving me empiric feedback!

    Your direct comparisons to the Paladin are rather insightful. I think that when I imagined this class I had a specific idea in mind of a warrior, namely a lithe dexterous rapier/buckler warrior. But your feedback (especially so long after I first made the class) has caused me to reconsider this, or at least allow other imaginings to be possible by a player.

    Because of your commentary I have realized that there should be many ideas of this class available to the player, and that a frontline fighter should have d10 hit dice. I will change it to be so. This will mean that the TW is tougher than a warlock, but not as well armored as a paladin/fighter. Iím willing to listen to arguments that I should allow heavy armor as well.
    I have changed the incantation system to be more in line with the paladin; more on this below.

    Hereís my commentary on your commentary of the features:
    Spoiler: Commentary on feature commentary
    Show
    Lunar Shield: Iíve changed it so it explicitly mentions that you can use the +1 AC part of the feature without the shield Ė as intended. Iíve also increased the time that the shield is active; my hope is that this will allow 1) clever people to place it on the right person before combat, and 2) TWF to be far more viable.

    Celestial Mediation: What I donít want is the resource system to be made irrelevant by making this feature a bonus action. This feature is more meant to a) be flavorful and b) allow the TW some measurement of control over their energy pool out of combat. It is also worth noting that the TW gains incantations at this level, a mechanical boost.
    Bind Fates: Adjustment to d10 hit dice will make this a better feature.

    Constant as the Sun: This is meant to be a flavor/ribbon feature, like some ranger or monk features at this level range. I can improve it however Ė it now provides sustenance for the day.

    Inconstant as the Moon: Iíve become a fan of tying arbitrary numbers in classes to attributes, but I also think that I donít want such a broad feature to be able to used three times in a row (either mechanically or flavorfully).

    Equinox: I loathe making capstone features, because they are supposed to be powerful and symbolically represent the class. I have buffed this ability so that it provides more temporary celestial energy, enough so that it is possible for a TW to cast the equivalent of 9th level spells Ė nothing to scoff at for a half-caster. However, Iím open to other suggestions.


    On your commentary of the archetypes:
    Spoiler: Commentary on archetype commentary
    Show
    I think that what can separate the two subclasses here is the heavy practical and symbolic distinction between lunar and solar incantations. Thematically, they represent of the transition of light to darkness, or darkness to light.

    The intention of the Rising Moon / Rising Sun features is to be the mechanical application of that transformative theme. Mechanically, it makes it easier for the character to acquire an energy type. The energy can be used to more easily access the casting of certain incantations, or fuel the additional effects of certain ongoing incantations (e.g., brightblade).

    Now, I recognize possible problems with this. The TW doesnít cast incantations terribly often, which means that the management of the energy pool may not be as important. I could make their respective features cost celestial energy, but that seems like a tax.
    Alternatively, I could make the additional energy type transformation give a mechanical benefit as a symbol of that additional cost. I have thought for some time about this, but Iím uncertain what it might be.

    Or I could leave it as is. I think that the features provide sufficient resource management and utility. Iíd be open to a conversations on this topic in particular.


    Commentary on some TLDR points:
    Spoiler: Commentary on TLDR points
    Show
    • This class is like the warlock in that they need to strategically determine how to use incantation slots or be without the utility/power they provide. But my hope is that the spell-like features provided fill that gap when incantation slots are used up.
    • I balanced the incantations around spells, under the assumption that this class shouldnít have more spellcasting power at any level than the classes in the PHB. Iíd also like to keep this class as a half-caster, so I donít think that raising the max energy use should be above 5.
    • Iíve replaced the final feature of the Path of Dusk archetype. It is nigh-exactly copied from the UA Sorcerous Dusk Sorcerous Origin. I hope it is reasonable.
    • To minimize bookkeeping, I have made it so that there is no maximum energy cost, only the size of your energy pool. Question for you: do you believe that the reduction of the pool by one will reduce the power of the class noticeably?
    • Iíve changed astromancy to be more similar to a paladin, where you know all the incantations on the list but only prepare a limited amount. Compared to the paladin, the TW will prepare less incantations than the paladinís spells, but I believe that their access to different types of spells is comparable.
    • Now, the TW has to 20 incantations available (6 require too much celestial energy). Compared to the ~45 that a paladin has access to, I feel alright with this decision.




    Spoiler: Commentary on your EDIT
    Show
    I do think that a melee caster sort of class would be possible with the incantation system, but I think that Iíd like to keep this one as a half-caster warrior for now. But in the future I will be imagining how to transform all the other spells into incantations, so perhaps I will tackle that archetype in the future.

    (Oh, and I have added cantrips to the Astromancer class. You can see the updated version in my signature.)


    At this point, I have two points that Iíd like to discuss further:
    a) the viability of the capstone feature, and
    b) determine if Rising Sun/Moon are quality features and if not, what can replace them

    Thanks for all the help youíve given me to imagine the class. Iíve made many changes based on your suggestions; let me know if any of them are unreasonable.

    Also, I've put the information into nicely formatted PDFs. You can download them above.
    Last edited by zeek0; 2016-08-08 at 03:11 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Zeek0! So glad you enjoyed my feedback, I'm glad it didn't come off as negative- hopefully it's clear that wasn't my intent. You've made some big changes, and I think I love all of them. Just to review a few:

    The d10 I think was called for, but I don't think heavy armor is necessary. Like you said, this class has a lithe warrior thing going on, and while I think it's reasonable to give it a d10 to help you be the off-tank if you so choose, heavy armor is moving into the on-tank territory, if you will, which I think you and I both believe the TW really isn't, unless one prioritizes CON.

    The lunar shield update is perfect- one thing I would clarify is that you can only have this +1 AC active on a single target at any given time, unless that's not your intent. As written, I can currently spam it out every turn on whomever within 15ft as long as I've got lunar energy. Other than that, spot on.

    Celestial Meditation/Rising Sun/Moon: Celestial Meditation as written is fine, your point is reasonable and I've no complaint. One way that you might flesh out Rising Sun/Moon with it is that depending on which Path you take you can also use the CM action to convert all your points to your chosen energy type. Just a thought, do with it as you will. More on the Rising's below.

    Constant/Inconstant: Constant got better in the exact right way- its like a ranger's minor feature now, which is totally in line with the power scale I believe you were going for. Inconstant is fine as it is now, was just thinking aloud mostly.

    Equinox: Capstones are hard to make for sure. I think with the extra points this should probably suffice, now you can either do one huge blowout sale or two decently phat hits instead.

    To minimize bookkeeping, I have made it so that there is no maximum energy cost, only the size of your energy pool. Question for you: do you believe that the reduction of the pool by one will reduce the power of the class noticeably?
    Nah, I think it unlikely. If you have 6 points but can only spend 5 at a time, I don't think it matters much. The only time it would make a difference is when the cap on # you can spend is removed, which I think is only the case when you use Equinox, but with the increased number of temp points, I think it's probably fine. Looking again at the incantations, I think it might have more of an effect than I first realized, but like you said there's a lot of bookkeeping involved already, and since 3/4th casters aren't a thing in 5e, you probably don't want to boost your points pool max up to 6 at 20th level still, understandably. Not sure what the fix is.

    I LOVE the change to preparing a select number of incantations without limiting the number known, that's perfect. Gives you the freedom of flexing your muscles and seeing what happens, and if it doesn't go the way you wanted you just try again tomorrow with a new set. Major props for you, great idea.



    So the change for the Dusk path 18th level ability is definitely on point. As I noted above, one way to flesh out Celestial is to give each Path the ability to change all their points as that action to their chosen type. This may seem like a big swing, but keep in mind most spell casting classes don't have to worry about an additional resource management, and an action is a tough thing to give up in the first place. Another thought is to instead of the above, potentially give some sort of passive bonus when you have the majority of your celestial points in your chosen path's type of energy. Then again, that doesn't solve the main concern I had, which was that when your spells have run out, you don't have a whole lot of unique options. I realize this is kind of the half-caster's dilemma; besides spells, its often a lot of passive buffs to one thing or another, and for some reason halfers don't get cantrips while 1/3 casters do.... what? That's pretty bizarre.

    My thought is this, now that I've seen that you have actually made cantrips for your astromancer, which is baller. Give each path the relevant half of your cantrips. Dusk warriors can cast Shadow Messenger, Lunar Aura, Extinguish (which would remove the relevancy of the tail-end of the level 6 ability, I realize), and Conjure Darkness. Dawn warriors can cast Conjure Light, Resistance, Ignite, and Solar Shard. This is a happy medium between "I have a spell handy" and "I'll swing my sword again", but doesn't radically change the power level AND helps diversify the classes a little in playstyle- Lunar gets a little more shielding, and a little more sneaky, Solar gets a little bit burstier, and grabs some utility in providing light/saving throw buffs. I mean really, how much more half caster does it get?

    But that's just a thought, I'd love to hear what you have to say on the matter. This is 100% your class, I'm just spitballing. You've already made some tremendous changes that I think will be very healthy for the class on the whole, and no matter what I'm excited to continue playing as a TW. Thanks for your gracious replies and excellent conversation! Cheers
    Last edited by DeanHavok; 2016-08-10 at 02:51 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Dean - thanks for the further comments.

    Lunar Shield: I've fixed lunar shield so that it operates as intended. I've also reduced the duration of the feature back to the original value (1 turn). Originally, I intended a TW to use both their solar weapon and lunar shield ability each turn - thereby creating no net gain in Celestial Energy. With increased duration, it is too easy to gain lunar energy (via your solar weapon), and simply leave the lunar shield effect where it is. But to allow for TWF, I made this not require any action to perform.

    [Also, something I just considered: what if you summon a celestial weapon and shield, and they can be whichever you want? This would allow for solar shields and lunar weapons, or solar/lunar weapons... I'll think on this more.]

    Rising Sun/Moon: I also considered allowing these features to change the entire pool. But I ran into one major problem: if this is true, certain incantations are too powerful. Take brightblade or solar sphere, which allow you to use additional energy while you concentrate on the effect to create more damage. If you gain 3 or 4 solar energy every other turn, you can add additional effects more often than I intended.

    I think that I'll keep the maximum energy cost removal as-is. I think that the removal is a small detriment to the class mechanically, but would simplify gameplay and bookeeping, making it more enjoyable.

    nother thought is to instead of the above, potentially give some sort of passive bonus when you have the majority of your celestial points in your chosen path's type of energy.
    I don't like this option for a few reasons. If you are a dusk TW, it encourages you to keep your energy toward lunar energy. So you are hesitant to spend it, as you will lose whatever bonus it is. You are also encouraged to keep your energy pool in a place so that you are more able to perform solar incantations, which is against the theme of the class in more than one way.

    Give each path the relevant half of your cantrips.
    Alright, here's my solution: I've changed celestial mediation so that when you have more solar energy, you have solar cantrips; when you have more lunar energy, you have lunar cantrips. This means that wherever you are, using that kind of cantrip will transform your energy pool back to center (or only slightly off-center if it was even). But it won't allow a player to spam "conjure light" to get a bunch of lunar energy. This is in line with the class's themes. It has the same mechanical effect as the old celstial mediation, but it is now represented by our TW expending their lunar energy as bursts of conjured darkness.

    Now, I do recognize as you did that I'll have to change the bonus that is on the Extinguish feature. I'm welcome to suggestions, or I'll come up with one before I post again.

    Also, thanks for the good critique and respectful conversation. You give advice so that it is taken well and you respond directly to what I say, instead of talking around it. More thoughts/critiques are, of course, welcome.

    (I shan't be changing the PDF document until I walk to the sector office sometime this week, where they have wi-fi. But know that the changes have been made.)

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Zeek0, so good to hear back from you. Your points are spot on, and I agree with your reasoning. I think with this addition of the cantrips, which you cleaned up to perfection, the class will be in a very healthy place. I will be happy to playtest these changes and report back when I can.

    The note on allowing for mixing and matching sun/moon weapons/shield is intriguing- suddenly you're gaining solar for attacking and lunar for shielding someone, or if you're duel wielding you would gain one solar and lunar for swinging with both weapons, cancelling each other out unless you use your path's ability to convert an additional point.... plus one more point for shielding. Hmm. Suddenly this would make the point conversion of each path REALLY relevant, as if you can attack and shield to gain points with the same type of celestial energy, you can swing your points total by 3/round in your chosen direction. An unintended benefit of such a change, maybe, but worth exploring further, for sure.

    One final note just for clarity, I assume that when one has an even number of points they can cast both kinds of cantrips, but either way that's something to make sure to include your ruling on when updating the pdf. This does have the odd effect of making the class more versatile on levels where it has 2 and 4 celestial points, but ah well.

    The pleasure has been mine, I'm almost sad to see the class reach such a nice balance point, as that means I don't get to discuss and research the matter as much. I've been raving to all sorts of people, including non-players, about how cool the class is both thematically and mechanically. Been fun for sure.
    Last edited by DeanHavok; 2016-08-21 at 06:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Hello again,

    I've looked into allowing lunar weapons and solar shields... and I think that it won't work, in part for the reasons you specified. Also, I think that thematically a solar weapon/lunar shield is powerful, and it gets awfully diluted if I allow superfluous options.

    I do see that the class becomes more versatile when one has two or four celestial points. I'd like to smooth this over, but I'll need to think more on how it works. Although, if a lunar-energy-sided TW wanted to cast light, they would only need to locate the moon for a moment.

    Thanks again for being my play tester. I'd like you to keep something specific in mind: how do the cantrips feel?

    I think that the half-casters we have in existence now have a good reason for not including cantrips: it changes the feeling of the class. A ranger that can cast thorn whip or a paladin that can cast produce flame feels different from a ranger that only uses ranged attacks or a paladin that only strikes with their blade.

    My concern is that the addition of cantrips is mechanically balanced and thematically sound, but changes the class into a sometime blaster, or blurs their party role too much. For a class that focuses symbolically around summoned weapons, it may be a problem. Let me know if my concerns are founded in actual play.

    The pleasure has been mine, I'm almost sad to see the class reach such a nice balance point, as that means I don't get to discuss and research the matter as much. I've been raving to all sorts of people, including non-players, about how cool the class is both thematically and mechanically. Been fun for sure.
    You say the sweetest things.

    I'll be making more homebrew in the future, so you can keep an eye out. I've looked for homebrew by yourself, and I don't see any - if you put something out I'll try to be as kind and effective as you were for me. Thanks Dean.

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Hey zeek0,
    I stumbled upon this earlier today and I gotta say I absolutely love the concept. The astral theme and the energy toggling mechanic are just plain awesome.
    I realize I'm not looking at the most updated version, but I'm still gonna give some feedback in no particular order. I apologize if this feels all over the place, or too critical. My intention is to be constructive.
    Also I apologize for the incoming wall of text. The TLDR would be I agree with Dean in that it's a tad weak, the wonderful flavor and mechanics could be amped up, and I'm spoiled and can't wait for things.

    So I'm a fan of the Energy toggling mechanic. I like that the class is a half-caster, it feels perfect for a class whose theme is heavy on halves and balance. However I feel it is used perhaps too sparingly. Sure, it interacts with your spell-casting, determining which spells you can cast at any given time and forcing you to plan ahead by converting energy, but besides casting there's little that interacts with Energy. There's the two first level features I'll talk about later, and the 7th level (Lunar) feature. That's it. I feel this is a missed opportunity.
    Since the class is partly modeled after the Warlock, I'd like to point out that in order to compensate for their limited amount of available slots, Warlocks have a fair amount of good at-will options: EB, Invocations, and pretty much all their patron features are either passive or 1/short rest.
    I'm intrigued to see what you do with the cantrips, as this might already address this, but I think having more (non-Incantation) options that interact with Energy would be beneficial not only mechanically, but to truly highlight it's theme of balancing extremes.

    Besides the awesome energy toggling mechanic, there's something odd about the TW casting. You want it to be a half-caster, but with the resource management of a warlock, where they regain slots per short rest. I won't get into the debate of table dependency, party makeup, etc, and will assume that the principles the PHB is designed around are the goal we are trying to achieve for balancing this class.
    With this in mind, and just as a baseline comparison, the TW should have 1 slot from levels 2-6, 2 slots from levels 7-16, and 3 slots from levels 17-20. I can show you the math (couldn't figure out how to make a nice table here) but basically what I did was, at any given level, convert the Ranger/Paladin's slots into spell-points, then divided that by the spell-point cost of their highest available slot, and divide that by 3 (since 2 short rest per day). This should give you the number of equivalent warlock slots.

    Now there's a couple problems with this. First and foremost is that the TW doesn't quite function the same as a Warlock: they don't automatically cast a spell at their highest available level. They certainly could but they have the additional requirement of needing to use all their Energy (and thus needing it to all be of the same type). And of course having a single slot until level 7 just isn't fun.
    I'm honestly not sure how to go about this and would suggest you rethink this (or explain it so I understand your intent), as it feels rather awkward giving it almost identical slot progression as the Warlock, while having the option to 'waste' a whole slot by using only 1 point instead of 5, and being a half-caster.

    I had a question regarding Celestial Energy. It says that whenever you gain a point you decide if it starts Solar or Lunar. Does this mean that if say I choose 2 Lunar, 3 Solar, they reset to this configuration at the end of a Long Rest? Do they reset at all? Or is it only at the very start of a level and then they just toggle as they're used?

    Solar Weapon just doesn't seem to do anything, in fact it seems to be a tax, forcing an Energy toggle every time you want to attack... When you want to toggle it then it's certainly very nice and convenient, but when you want to build up your Solar Energy then you're forced to either forego attacking, or use a plain old iron-and-wood weapon. Neither of these options seem very cool to me to be honest... Besides that, the only benefit is the BA summoning and free ammo.. it doesn't bypass resistances or anything... heck it doesn't even glow...

    In contrast, Lunar Shield seems quite strong. It allows you to don a shield as a Reaction as opposed to an Action, doff it for free, and gain +1 AC or give it to an ally as a bonus action. Since you can't do this and do an Incantation, and this is one of the class' two Bonus Actions, it means you'll want to spam this whenever you would take the Attack action.
    As you pointed out, using this and Attacking leaves your Energy pool the same. This means you can't reliably accrue Solar Energy. Unless this is your intention (or your intention is to rely on the Path feature to gain energy), I would strongly suggest changing this.
    Spending a point for Lunar Shield is an "optional" beneficial feature. You gain something when you use it, but you don't need to use it. And even if you don't spend it, you still gain the benefit of an action-economy breaking shield, which is great.
    Solar Weapon is not. You lose something if you don't use it.

    I would suggest adding a similar "optional" beneficial feature to Solar Weapon. Something that you want to use every turn because it's cool, but you can forego for the sake of Energy management and not feel like you're getting shimmed. I propose something like dealing an extra 1d4 fire damage when you spend a point.

    This makes the class fairly front loaded though, as I think each feature is a little better than a fighting style (so in a way you get Defense, Protection, and Dueling) which would probably be a problem for multiclassing, especially since they'd stack... I personally don't care much about this for the same reason I don't care much about capstone features. I never play at level 20 and if I'm gonna play a homebrew class is because it fits a concept better than any of the standard options, not to game the system with unintended interactions. But it's worth mentioning I suppose.

    I know this is most often a handwaved requirement, but an hour to prepare a new list of incantations? All other classes spend 1 minute per spell level, having only 7 incantations of maximum fifth level would mean 35 minutes if you were to swap them all...

    In all honesty I'm not a big fan of the paths, I like them in concept but in application they're rather underwhelming. They're too similar and their features are very minor. The 3rd level feature of converting more Energy is nice (and might be better if you add additional features that interact with Energy), but the 6th level one is very weak. Radiant is one of the best damage types, I don't see many situations why you would change it to necrotic let alone fire. I suggest changing them (preferably for something that interacts with Energy)
    Path of Dusk grants Stealth and Darkvision, while Path of Dawn only grants one Proficiency. Also Path of Dusk should probably stipulate what happens if you already have Darkvision (ie. "If you already have Darkvision, its range is extended by 30 feet" or something of the sort)
    The Sphere skills are ok, and the level 18 abilities are from other classes at a similar level so they should be fine. I wanna point out you took the Reaction cost off the monk's ability, I don't know if intended or not.

    Oh also I'd suggest having the range (and wording of the +1 AC) of Lunar Shield and Binding Fates be the same just for consistency and ease of remembering but it doesn't have to be.

    I confess I haven't read through the Incantations in great detail, as at first I was confused as to why some had costs higher than the TW can afford (thought they needed to be updated, I saw now you're using them for your Astromancer too). I'll read them again and provide feedback tomorrow. I admit some of what I have said might change once I have a better picture of the incantations.

    Finally I got annoyed at not having the latest version, and since I've been curious about checking out the Homebrewery, I went ahead and transcribed your class there :P (Except all the Incantations)
    I'll DM you the edit link. I also made some minor edits while I was at it. Hope you find it useful, but no hard feelings if not.
    Last edited by Ze_Azrael; 2016-08-23 at 08:41 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Ze_Azrael,

    First of all, thanks for all the work you've put in to critique my work; I certainly do appreciate it. You raise many good points.

    I'd also like to thank you for creating a homebrewery listing for my homebrew - that is, ideally, how I would post my homebrew. However, I live in a village in Rwanda, and the best internet I get at home is from tethering my phone to my laptop. The sector office has wifi, but I only bring my laptop into town about once a week or two. Y'all will just have to be patient with me I think - I expect to walk into town tomorrow afternoon.

    As for the content critique:

    So I'm a fan of the Energy toggling mechanic. ... However I feel it is used perhaps too sparingly.
    I see how the energy mechanic is used too sparingly; I'll be replacing the 6th level twilight path features with something more suitable that will use celestial energy more often.

    I'd like your feedback on the addition of cantrips to this class; you can see my concerns in my above post.

    You want it to be a half-caster, but with the resource management of a warlock, where they regain slots per short rest.
    Yes, I did model this class off of the warlock/paladin. However, I think I had good reason for allowing more spell slots. As you mentioned, when you cast an incantation you may not cast it at full strength. In order to cast an incantation at full strength, one must manipulate their energy pool to allow it. More spell slots compensates for this.

    I had a question regarding Celestial Energy.
    My intent was to address what would happen when you gained a new celestial energy point in your pool (such as when you become level 5). I have clarified the language, and made it so it starts as solar energy.

    Solar Weapon just doesn't seem to do anything, in fact it seems to be a tax...
    Agreed. I have changed it so that when you spend 1 solar energy the weapon is magical (like the warlock weapon), and gains +1 to attack and damage rolls. This may be too strong.

    (As a side note, I've made it so when you dismiss the lunar shield, it requires an action. This is to prevent you from using your bastard sword as a two-hander on your turn, and summoning the shield every time you are attacked.)

    It is indeed my intention that when you use both their solar and lunar weapon features their celestial energy pool remains stable. The change to the solar weapon should ameliorate your concerns.

    I know this is most often a handwaved requirement, but an hour to prepare a new list of incantations?
    I'll keep the 1 hour requirement. As you say, it is usually handwaved, and I don't want to put too much math into this (multiply the size of your celestial energy pool by the number of slots you are exchanging...).

    Radiant is one of the best damage types,
    I had not realized how powerful an energy type radiant was... Only angels are resistant to it. Anyhow, I'll be changing this 6th level feature.

    Path of Dusk grants Stealth and Darkvision, while Path of Dawn only grants one Proficiency.
    I've changed the Illumination feature so that, in addition, you are immune to the blinded condition. I might change this so that it actually makes sense (what happens if you have a blindfold on?), but for now I'll just be considering it.

    Oh also I'd suggest having the range (and wording of the +1 AC) of Lunar Shield and Binding Fates be the same just for consistency and ease of remembering but it doesn't have to be.
    Done. The range of both is now 15 feet.

    I'll read them [incantations] again and provide feedback tomorrow.
    Your assessment of the incantations is certainly welcome, as I think they are the most interesting part of the class. Let me know what you think!

    Tomorrow, I'll try to update the document above. I may cannibalize some features from the astromancer; we'll see. Thanks again for your impressive feedback.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Oct 2015

    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    EDIT: This is what I get for not refreshing the page before posting, just noticed your reply. This post I wrote before that so I'll read it and reply to it after this post.

    Hey again, just realized I didn't provide many suggestions with my feedback, so it doesn't come off as constructive as I intended haha.

    As I mentioned, I think more ways for the TW to use Energy would be cool.

    Some things that I though of:
    Bonus/advantage on Intelligence checks (Moon), bonus/advantage on Charisma checks (Sun).
    Increased physical prowess for the Sun (things like increased jump distance for example).
    Understanding Writing / Languages for the Moon.
    Disguise Self for the Moon
    Druidcraft-like plant blossoming for the Sun.
    Playing with gravity could be fun... Pull a creature towards you for Sun, get pulled towards a creature for Moon. Maybe a tether ability similar to the Crown Paladin where you and a creature(s) can't willingly move more than X feet apart.


    Thematic ribbon effects I thought of were knowing the time of day, north, etc. I now see the Locate Sun/Moon cantrip could fill this space. Perhaps expand it to tell you the time of day for the Sun, or the time of month (date) for the Moon?

    I'm not a fan of the 7th level feature interacting only with Lunar Energy. Perhaps if you use Solar Energy the bound target has advantage on all saving throws, but if they fail you're subjected to the consequences of failure as well?

    I also thought of a cool ability, of course you don't have to include it or anything, I just thought it was cool so I'm mentioning it lol.
    Eclipse - Convert all your Celestial Energy to a single type. For a duration (a couple rounds, maybe equal to the amount of Energy converted), whenever you spend Celestial Energy you are healed for a small amount and the Energy Type isn't converted. 1/long rest
    I like this because it helps a front-line with some minor sustain (maybe WIS mod, or amount of Energy spent... It could also provide temp HP at the beginning of rounds instead), and allows for a brief window where you can unload a particular type of Energy. I also think it's very thematic.


    As for the Incantations, I've read them over and here's some thoughts.

    I would say an Incantation requires an Action, Verbal Components, and a Focus, be it the Astral (symbol, works for both), or the Weapon / Shield. No Somatic, no Materials or component pouches. You can always summon your Weapon / Shield so...

    There are a couple editing mistakes (frequently an Incantation says "It" when the target is only Self) I'd be willing to help with if I transcribe them to homebrewery.
    Somewhat related, I like the "Choose one" text, it is very clear in that an Incantation isn't progressive. I suggest making it standard (Conjure Figment for example is written differently)

    The steps stack, so casting for example at (4) means I get the effects of (1) and (3) as well, right? However some are a bit strange... For instance Conjure Figment says that by spending (+2) as a bonus action [...] Does this mean that if I spend 3 Energy I can cast a Bonus Action Silent Image that frightens and deals damage for two turns?
    I guess I'm a bit confused with Incantations that have the Bonus Action cast time in one of the steps.

    Conversely, there is no way to suppress a previous effect, right? If I want a +1 Magic Weapon I'm stuck with a glowing one?

    Guiding Light's Sanctuary effect is contradictory to the underwater restriction of attacks. Also if I use 3 Energy, do I lose my resistance when I attack? I assume the steps also increase the duration, right? So using 4 Energy gives me Sanctuary, Resistance from Elements, and Freedom of Movement for 1 hour, right?

    I don't like that Infusion cures conditions as well as Cleansing Glow. I think it would be more thematic if only one was focused on this, curing more conditions at higher steps, while the other remains a healing Incantation. Incidentally, what spell did you use for each of them? Calm emotions suppresses charmed or frightened (but doesn't end them), the Restoration spells have a couple of conditions but they're split between your Incantations. Also Cleansing Glow, if at 3 Energy I target someone that is Poisoned and Paralyzed (Hold Person), can I end both?

    I like that there's a divination Lunar Incantation, thematic.

    Do the additional castings of Nightshade (or Solar Sphere) also cost an Incantation Slot? I really like the flavor of this one by the way.
    If it doesn't require additional slots Solar Sphere is strong though, 3 radiant flaming spheres for the price of one, that can also be detonated like fireballs is amazing.

    Sanctify's last benefit is weird, it doesn't seem to apply. Also, Protection from Evil, Evasion and advantage on all saving throws as a 4th level spell seems pretty good. I can't seem to recall right now, is there an existing spell that does the Evasion + advantage on saves thing?

    Searing Beam's wall effect is very strong. Better than a Wall of Fire at one less level. I know it can't be shaped and must be a line, but is wider and longer (covers a 25x100 ft rectangle), requires no concentration, and is radiant damage

    I'm also confused by the (+X) of some Incantations... It seems that they want to fill both the role of increasing a spell's level (Infusion's extra healing), and also function as bonus effects you can take without expending an Incantation Slot (Brightblade's smite effect or Shadow Bind).

    I noticed a few of the Incantations were similar to some Invocations (except they now incur a slot cost). This, and after going through them and seeing the ones where options are exclusive and some cost, say, 2 Energy makes me think the slot problem I mentioned in my previous post is more apparent. Since Energy is 'free' but slots aren't, it likely would feel like a waste spending 2 Energy when you could've spent 5... The first thing that came to mind was something along the lines of spending less than half your pool on an incantation only uses half a slot? It's dirty though... I'm not sure to be honest, giving them more at will Invocation-like abilities might be enough...

    This is getting very long again... I'm sorry
    Last edited by Ze_Azrael; 2016-08-23 at 12:39 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Oct 2015

    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    Ze_Azrael,

    First of all, thanks for all the work you've put in to critique my work; I certainly do appreciate it. You raise many good points.
    My pleasure :) I know I ramble often and my posts end up longer than I expected so thanks for taking the time to read them!

    No worries on the homebrewery, in a big part I did it to learn about it. I'm still willing to transcribe your final doc there so it looks nicer as well as do an editing pass if you wish, but I can see how keeping track of two docs might be a hassle. Thanks for explaining your situation, I'll try to be patient haha.

    I see how the energy mechanic is used too sparingly; I'll be replacing the 6th level twilight path features with something more suitable that will use celestial energy more often.

    I'd like your feedback on the addition of cantrips to this class; you can see my concerns in my above post.
    I'm excited to check it out. Now that I've read through the Incantations, I can say that they are very flavorful and thematic. The first 3 are thematic (though overlap a fair amount). Locate Sun/Moon is also really flavorful and I mentioned it on my previous post.
    Shadow Messenger is a neat one, we've used Message a fair amount in my campaigns so this one's definitely useful and I like the extra flavor.
    Resistance is a weird one... on paper it looks good but it takes your Concentration and you need to correctly foresee the target needing this, plus be next to them. I personally haven't seen any cleric use this ever. On the other hand this does in a thematic way overlap with my suggestion for Bind Fates so it's nice to see we're on a similar page lol.
    I dislike Solar Shard, it competes with the flexibility and cool factor of your morphing weapon (why change it to a bow/javelin when I can just shoot a better firebolt instead?)
    Lunar Aura is interesting... It's like Armor of Agathys lite. I would word it so the porcupine damage happens immediately after the target is hit instead of at any point before your next turn. Seems more reactive. Also the way you have it it currently works for ranged attacks as well, not a complain, just want to clarify that's the intention. Besides that I think it scales far too well. AoA is already an awesome spell, making it a cantrip is bonkers. I would either scale it down or make it an Incantation (and bump it up slightly). As a side note, if Cantrips don't count as Incantations, you can use your Lunar Shield and this on the same turn to be a pretty effective 'protector'.

    As for how you're gonna implement the mechanic, my guess is that if you have more Solar Energy, you can use a Solar Cantrip and balance your Energy pool. If this is the case I can imagine that you'll be forced to give the TW cantrips in pairs (at level 2, they know 1 Solar / 1 Lunar, increased to 2/2 then maybe 3/3?) since otherwise they can only use the feature one way. Given there's only 8 cantrips (2 that aren't tied to either sun or moon) I can see them having some issues where they either basically know all of them, or know too few.


    In order to cast an incantation at full strength, one must manipulate their energy pool to allow it. More spell slots compensates for this.
    Fair enough, I commented on this again on my previous post. I'm glad to see you're aware of it and what your measure is to address it. I suppose I'm ok with it as is then. I wish I could test it myself but since Dean's the one that has been playing a TW and hasn't mentioned this as a glaring issue, I'll take his word on it.


    My intent was to address what would happen when you gained a new celestial energy point in your pool (such as when you become level 5). I have clarified the language, and made it so it starts as solar energy.
    Oh ok I get it then. Having it Solar is indeed simpler and also thematic.


    Agreed. I have changed it so that when you spend 1 solar energy the weapon is magical (like the warlock weapon), and gains +1 to attack and damage rolls. This may be too strong.
    I think this may be too strong as well. It is also worth considering what happens when you bind to a magic weapon. Could you have a +4 weapon? Or a +1 to a strong weapon that doesn't have it by the book? Also how does this interact with Brightblade? It specifies a non-magical weapon, and it adds additional +1... Personally I think something like a simple 1d4 fire damage is a good enough incentive. It helps in getting past weapon resistance and doesn't break bounded accuracy. Plus when you use Brightblade you can be dealing 1d4 fire and 1d4 radiant damage, which seems pretty sunny to me :P

    (As a side note, I've made it so when you dismiss the lunar shield, it requires an action. This is to prevent you from using your bastard sword as a two-hander on your turn, and summoning the shield every time you are attacked.)
    Nice catch. The shield was too good in the action economy department, yeah.

    It is indeed my intention that when you use both their solar and lunar weapon features their celestial energy pool remains stable. The change to the solar weapon should ameliorate your concerns.


    I'll keep the 1 hour requirement. As you say, it is usually handwaved, and I don't want to put too much math into this (multiply the size of your celestial energy pool by the number of slots you are exchanging...).
    Fair enough, my only concern is that most likely you won't typically be changing your entire list, and this is 1 hour from level 1 through 20. So if you wanna change one Incantation at level 3 your group has to wait an hour for you. I personally don't care since my table handwaves this, but others might. Maybe 10 minutes per Incantation? Keeps it close to an hour if you want to swap your entire list at high levels, and it's long enough you don't need to worry about equivalence to spell levels that other classes have...



    I had not realized how powerful an energy type radiant was... Only angels are resistant to it. Anyhow, I'll be changing this 6th level feature.
    Yeah Radiant is a great damage type. For Incantations there are several instances where you take a fire damage spell and change it to radiant. I didn't mention it earlier because I think it's fine considering it's casting system restrictions.


    I've changed the Illumination feature so that, in addition, you are immune to the blinded condition. I might change this so that it actually makes sense (what happens if you have a blindfold on?), but for now I'll just be considering it.
    Interesting idea. It's fairly niche (certainly way less applicable than Darkvision), and as you pointed out can have weird interactions, but it's for sure an interesting idea.


    Your assessment of the incantations is certainly welcome, as I think they are the most interesting part of the class. Let me know what you think!
    Done!

    Tomorrow, I'll try to update the document above. I may cannibalize some features from the astromancer; we'll see. Thanks again for your impressive feedback.
    I'll be sure to check it out! and thank you for making inspiring homebrew.
    Last edited by Ze_Azrael; 2016-08-23 at 04:36 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    I just had a random thought. Have you seen the star warlock from UA? I believe its official name was the Seeker. It has some abilities that can serve as good inspiration. Specifically I was thinking about the day-night cycle and time, and remembered they have an ability that allows them to gain a "fast short rest". This is obviously big for warlocks as they're short rest reliant. The TW is pretty short rest reliant as well, and manipulating the energies responsible for this time cycle fits the theme.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    There are two things I'd like to see for this:
    1. More uses for each individual type of energy, and
    2. A subclass focused on balance, rather than absolutes.

    Otherwise, it's a pretty neat class.

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