Portal 2: The Cake Is Still A Lie

[Mc. Lovin']

Hey guys, does anyone here have the 360 version and want to do some co-op? I'd really like to get the 75Gs acheivement for completing co-op and playing with someone who hasn't done it yet. My gamertag's B1G B1RD B4G3L if anyone's up for it

[Mando Knight]

The Third (Adventure) Core is amusing, too. Manliest idiot AI ever.

[Kyouhen]

So I want to play some co-op with one of my friends, but she hasn't finished the singleplayer campaign yet. Can anyone tell me how bad the spoilers in co-op are before she learns things she probably shouldn't know yet?

[Bayar]

So I want to play some co-op with one of my friends, but she hasn't finished the singleplayer campaign yet. Can anyone tell me how bad the spoilers in co-op are before she learns things she probably shouldn't know yet?

Preety bad. She must at least reach chapter 6 as to not spoil too much, but better finish the game first just to be sure.

[littlebottom]

So I want to play some co-op with one of my friends, but she hasn't finished the singleplayer campaign yet. Can anyone tell me how bad the spoilers in co-op are before she learns things she probably shouldn't know yet?

yes im in the same position. im playing the co-op with someone who isnt finished with the single player, we stopped at area 5, to be honest, i saw no real spoilers at all up to that point, nothing that actually spoils anything. more informs from a different view perhaps?

[Phantom123]

yes im in the same position. im playing the co-op with someone who isnt finished with the single player, we stopped at area 5, to be honest, i saw no real spoilers at all up to that point, nothing that actually spoils anything. more informs from a different view perhaps?

It's not huge on spoilers. There's only really one spoiler, and it's probably pretty obvious.

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The goal is you're getting new human test subjects. This is because, obviously, Chell is now outta the facility, as per the end of the game. It doesn't spell this out, but it's obvious

[Draconi Redfir]

It involved

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a giant fan.

ohh yes now i remember XD


I'm still wondering though, what exactly is it Glados is testing? The portal gun? the equipment inside the test chambers? humans themselves? what?

[Deme]

Given what we know about GLaDOS...
She's not testing anything. She's just testing. For Science. She has to test (for science), so she's putting together some tests and she's running things through them, and she's testing. Numbers are being generated. Science is happening.

[chiasaur11]

She's

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hooked on science. Aperture Science is the best science.

[Draconi Redfir]

Well you can't really test if you aren't testing something.

[Fawkes]

Well you can't really test if you aren't testing something.

That's kind of the central fallacy that the game hinges on.

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As Cave Johnson grew more and more sickly and demented, he lost sight of actually searching for results, and just demanded endless testing without any actual purpose. GlaDOS was programmed to follow that paradigm.

Throughout both games, all of the tests Chell is put through don't amount to any actual science. It's just testing for the sake of testing to fulfill an insane concept of "SCIENCE!!!!1".

[Seerow]

That's kind of the central fallacy that the game hinges on.

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As Cave Johnson grew more and more sickly and demented, he lost sight of actually searching for results, and just demanded endless testing without any actual purpose. GlaDOS was programmed to follow that paradigm.

Throughout both games, all of the tests Chell is put through don't amount to any actual science. It's just testing for the sake of testing to fulfill an insane concept of "SCIENCE!!!!1".

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I dunno, near the end when talking about Wheatly's insanity, GLaDOS mentions that she continued doing it for the science rather than just because the programming dictated it (and only doing it because programming dictated is what was causing Wheatley to get so angry/upset as it went on and he had built up resistance to the positive feedback)

It could be she actually was getting some sort of data out of it that we just don't comprehend. The whole first game my assumption was it was testing the resolve of the human spirit (see: The chamber where you're told it is impossible, the constant ramping up of the dangers, etc). In Portal 2, when GLaDOS is in control it's more about revenge in the guise of testing until Wheatly takes over, at which point we're back to the positive feedback. This however doesn't explain what the co-op mode is supposed to be testing.

On an unrelated note, the first post of the thread says this is a spoiler thread as of 2 days ago, why are we still using spoiler tags?

[The Linker]

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This however doesn't explain what the co-op mode is supposed to be testing.

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She ain't testing. She's getting the bots to do her dirty work for her, making them fetch CDs and giving her access to them so she can discover where all the humans are -- the tests are just to teach them how to work the concepts, and make sure they have what it takes to get there.

[AlterForm]

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I dunno, near the end when talking about Wheatly's insanity, GLaDOS mentions that she continued doing it for the science rather than just because the programming dictated it (and only doing it because programming dictated is what was causing Wheatley to get so angry/upset as it went on and he had built up resistance to the positive feedback)

It could be she actually was getting some sort of data out of it that we just don't comprehend. The whole first game my assumption was it was testing the resolve of the human spirit (see: The chamber where you're told it is impossible, the constant ramping up of the dangers, etc). In Portal 2, when GLaDOS is in control it's more about revenge in the guise of testing until Wheatly takes over, at which point we're back to the positive feedback. This however doesn't explain what the co-op mode is supposed to be testing.

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If we believe GlaDOS when she says you are only one of 5000(?) such test pairs in existence, then the tests become a form of natural selection.

Notice how in each of the test sets, you are run through a series of testing environments in Aperture proper, and then dropped behind the scenes to recover Aperture Science Security DVDs^TM. The tests are necessary to ensure that the current model of robot are capable of handling the environments outside the enrichment center without overt supervision.

And so, the aspect(s) being tested in co-op are the abilities of genetic algorithms implanted in robots to develop the capabilities to deal with the usage of portals, hard-light bridges, lasers, cubes, buttons, and goop in order to brave the wilds where GLaDOS cannot herself tread in order to "rescue" the new test subjects she needs.

[ShortOne]

So I just finished it.

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That game. /shakes head That damn game. So, so good.

My favorite parts were the condemned Aperture Science, with Cave Johnson narrating and the secret areas.

That was the area that contained the most non-intuitive stuff, though. The parts I had trouble with were the elevator shaft, the other elevator shaft, and the four-layer thing after the second elevator shaft. And the getting through the pipes was ridiculous. The way you were walking was really difficult to figure out. The rest of the game was really intuitive, and playing co-op first helped with figuring out the final test chamber.

[Inyssius Tor]

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Notice how in each of the test sets, you are run through a series of testing environments in Aperture proper, and then dropped behind the scenes to recover Aperture Science Security DVDs^TM. The tests are necessary to ensure that the current model of robot are capable of handling the environments outside the enrichment center without overt supervision.

And so, the aspect(s) being tested in co-op are the abilities of genetic algorithms implanted in robots to develop the capabilities to deal with the usage of portals, hard-light bridges, lasers, cubes, buttons, and goop in order to brave the wilds where GLaDOS cannot herself tread in order to "rescue" the new test subjects she needs.

Right!

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I don't buy that line about GLaDOS having thousands of other robots--her other responses and actions during the co-op campaign just don't seem to fit with that sort of massively parallel testing. In addition, she really doesn't seem to like parallel testing in general; in the first Portal she had plenty of subjects, but she didn't seem to have been testing more than one at a time. Even in the credits sequence at the end of the co-op campaign, we see her analyzing the hell out of one file before moving on to the next.

That said, I think you're entirely correct. She's testing whether Atlas and P-Body on their ability to work together to navigate a variety of reasonably dangerous environments, on their spatial reasoning and problem-solving capabilities, and on their aptitude for utilizing those elements she can add to the areas outside her control as well as those elements she can guess will be already present in those areas.

She's also testing them on their general viability as test subjects. That test they fail, with GLaDOS growing more and more bored with their antics as the campaign progresses. Yes, SCIENCE! is her overarching purpose for being, and P-Body and Atlas can do that well enough, but still--a person needs hobbies if they want to stay sane, you know? GLaDOS wants more out of life than technology; her three great loves are SCIENCE!, mind games, and deadly threats, and (from her perspective) P-Body and Atlas just don't respond very satisfyingly to the latter two.

[Draconi Redfir]

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Am i the only one that DIDIN'T like the condemned test areas? i mean sure Cave was awesome, but it just didn’t feel that great. Maybe it's because i was worried about Chell's safety after all that deadly goop.

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Well i assumed in the first game Glados and aperture was testing the boundaries of human limits or something along those lines. Can a human survive a 200ft hurtle over a lake of deadly acid? Yes, but only if wearing special boots. How many weighted cubes can a single adult male hold on to? Six. Etc Etc Etc. but after awhile it just seemed pointless. like remember the announcer guy in the beginning talking about post-apocalyptic testing? Why would any survivors of the apocalypse need to be tested? To see how different they are? to see if they are better or worse then the way humanity was before? Both are very viable things to test for, but the mere fact that the entire thing was pre-recorded and nothing was actually recording any results makes the entire thing kind of moot.

[BRC]

My impression was that

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Apeture had a somewhat obsessive philosophy from the beginning. Cave Johnson has a line early on about "Throwing science at the wall and seeing what sticks". The entire time they seemed to be testing their subjects more than they were testing their inventions.

Remember the first level of the condemmed Testing grounds? He mentions that their test subjects were "War Heroes, Olympians, and Astronauts", the finest examples of humanity.

My crazy theory, Apeture is working for the G-Man! They are intentionally taking the best people they can find, then putting them under extreme circumstances, hoping to result in new Employees for the G-Man.

Basically, Aperture Science is a factory meant to produce Gordon Freeman.

In the comic Chell is shown to have off-the-charts tenacity, and it's mentioned that she shouldn't be tested. If the idea is that only extraordinary people will succeed the tests (Everybody else will give up or die), they wouldn't want to test somebody with a high tenacity because, while she could finish the (mostly nonlethal) tests, she wouldn't make a very good employee for the G-Man, since she didn't actually have many special skills (As opposed to Gordon, who has a PHD in theoretical physics and every weapon ever).

[Bayar]

My impression was that

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Apeture had a somewhat obsessive philosophy from the beginning. Cave Johnson has a line early on about "Throwing science at the wall and seeing what sticks". The entire time they seemed to be testing their subjects more than they were testing their inventions.

Remember the first level of the condemmed Testing grounds? He mentions that their test subjects were "War Heroes, Olympians, and Astronauts", the finest examples of humanity.

My crazy theory, Apeture is working for the G-Man! They are intentionally taking the best people they can find, then putting them under extreme circumstances, hoping to result in new Employees for the G-Man.

Basically, Aperture Science is a factory meant to produce Gordon Freeman.

In the comic Chell is shown to have off-the-charts tenacity, and it's mentioned that she shouldn't be tested. If the idea is that only extraordinary people will succeed the tests (Everybody else will give up or die), they wouldn't want to test somebody with a high tenacity because, while she could finish the (mostly nonlethal) tests, she wouldn't make a very good employee for the G-Man, since she didn't actually have many special skills (As opposed to Gordon, who has a PHD in theoretical physics and every weapon ever).

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Yeah, but Gordon got his PHD just barely if we are to believe Dr Breen.

[Draconi Redfir]

It's an interesting theory. the G-man does seem to buy and sell people such as Gordon, as well as objects such as the Xen-sample or whatever it was called. That could be how Aperture got so much money in the first place, Cave sold someone he knew to G-man, possibly a child or family member, got rich from it, and began searching for new people to sell.

Though that's kind of far-fetched, and while Aperture and Black Mesa are competitors, they are competitors in the scientific field, not in the human resources field. The difference is the Black mesa actually does science and produces results. Whale aperture has made some significant inventions (Turrets, repulsion gel, anti-friction gel, portal gun) most if not all of them are incredibly deadly just to the touch. Whereas black mesa… Invented teleportation for aliens… maybe they aren’t so different.

[BRC]

Well, in this theory Apeture does traditional Scientific research as well. Presumably there are regular labs, we just don't see them. The entire facility appears to be built around testing people, rather than devices.If the purpose was to test the devices, then why make the subjects figure out the solutions, instead of saying "Put a portal down at the bottom of the pit, and another at the top, and see if you can use your momentum from falling to fling yourseful up to this platform" Instead they say "here is a room, get to the exit". If the purpose is to test the device, then that makes no sense.

In this theory, Apeture is both a Scientific institution, AND a facility for churning out "Employees". Black Mesa is pure science that just happened to create an Employee.

[Bayar]

You know, the Gluon gun from Half Life looks suspiciously similar to the old portal gun.

[Mando Knight]

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In the comic Chell is shown to have off-the-charts tenacity, and it's mentioned that she shouldn't be tested. If the idea is that only extraordinary people will succeed the tests (Everybody else will give up or die), they wouldn't want to test somebody with a high tenacity because, while she could finish the (mostly nonlethal) tests, she wouldn't make a very good employee for the G-Man, since she didn't actually have many special skills (As opposed to Gordon, who has a PHD in theoretical physics and every weapon ever).

Chell does have a special skill: ridiculous levels of tenacity. Apparently, though, being in the 100th percentile for tenacity would obscure the results that were being looked for... if there were results to be looked for at all. It's possible that they were all supposed to die, and never-give-up Chell would be more "effectively dead" if stuck in cryo-sleep for decades, since it's easier to let her leave than to kill her.

[Draconi Redfir]

You know, the Gluon gun from Half Life looks suspiciously similar to the old portal gun.

i've only played 2 and episode 1 soo... what’s the Gluon gun? The Gravity gun?

[Inyssius Tor]

i've only played 2 and episode 1 soo... what’s the Gluon gun? The Gravity gun?

Nope. It's the Gluon Gun. You haven't seen it.

[Jibar]

Black Mesa is pure science that just happened to create an Employee.

You forget G-Man gave Black Mesa the original Xen Sample which they used in all their research. In all respects, it seems Aperture Science was the only one playing fair in their rivalry and look what they got for it.

[Bryn]

i've only played 2 and episode 1 soo... what’s the Gluon gun? The Gravity gun?

A gun from Half-Life 1. This is the HD version, from the HD version of Half-Life:

This is the version in non-HD, more familiar Half Life:

Source for pictures and some details at Combine Over-wiki

I like the way quote pretends that the Gluon gun was named that because it has something to do with gluons, not just a cool-sounding name...

Gluons are the particles that mediate the strong nuclear force that holds atomic nuclei together; whether the gluon gun actually fires streams of gluons or instead interferes with the gluons already present in an object is unclear, but in either case the weapon interferes with the fundamental interactions of matter. In the game, the stresses caused by this reaction can blast almost any living creature to pieces.

[Grif]

You forget G-Man gave Black Mesa the original Xen Sample which they used in all their research. In all respects, it seems Aperture Science was the only one playing fair in their rivalry and look what they got for it.

Take a step back there. You know what would happen if Aperture Science Innovations got that sample instead?

Science! in the 70s. So we probably would get the Combine knocking on our door 30 years earlier. Cave Johnson would have shed a manly tear.

[BRC]

Chell does have a special skill: ridiculous levels of tenacity. Apparently, though, being in the 100th percentile for tenacity would obscure the results that were being looked for... if there were results to be looked for at all. It's possible that they were all supposed to die, and never-give-up Chell would be more "effectively dead" if stuck in cryo-sleep for decades, since it's easier to let her leave than to kill her.

In this case, that Tenacity was not the type of skill they are looking for.
If you look at the tests, few of them are overtly lethal. My theory is that Apeture would put people into these tests, and if they succeeded it was because they were smart or skilled enough to be good "employees" for the G-Man.

Chell's off-the-charts Tenacity would mean she would break the curve. She would try again and again until she succeeded. The type of person they are looking for was supposed to try maybe three or four times, then either succeed or give up. Chell would keep trying, any maybe succeed on the fiftieth try.

If Chell was tested, she would have passed (eventually), then be handed off to the G-Man, who couldn't make any use of her because she didn't have any special skill beyond stubbornness.
Of course, now we're speculating on the motivations of the G-Man, one of the most mysterious characters in video gaming. So yeah...

[Draconi Redfir]

I think the whole "rivalry" between Aperture and Black mesa is one-way only. Aperture hates Mesa, Mesa barely acknowledges Aperture.