Am I the only guy

[Lissou]

That reminds me a man once came up to me and complimented me on my breasts. He wasn't hitting on me or anything, he just walked up to me and said I had great breasts, and he smiled, I thanked him and he went away.
I couldn't imagine ever being upset about that. I don't see why it should make me less happy than if he had said I had a great smile, for instance.

But I don't think that's the same thing as walking to someone and going "hey, wanna have sex?", either.

[haveabrain]

lol@picking up random girls is to objectify them. If that's the case, then me dating random guys is objectifying them as well.

I'm not going to lie, as a pretty independent woman I find this post itself a little sexist. I look for guys who are not trying to get to know me when all I want to do is casually date. I mean, it sounds like your saying every guy needs to like get to know a girl because all girls are ever looking for is a relationship. lol we can be justttt as shallow. I'm sorry, but I don't need a relationship. However, I have chosen that I kind of need sex so, yes, I occasionally hook up with guys I hardly know. And I don't need them to want to know me, I'd prefer they don't.

And I don't have low self esteem and I don't even really consider myself easy. Actually, the opposite, I am super independent and confident hence not wanting any relationship.

I am not at all trying to be mean I'm just trying to make a point that it SOUNDS LIKE you think of women as semi fragile creatures that need to be treated delicately. =/ It's a little sexist in and of itself.

[haveabrain]

This I find pretty amusing. I wonder, from any of the girls reading this thread, if someone walked up to you and asked you "Hey baby, want no strings attached sex?" If you'd be insulted or not.

No I would not be insulted. lol this happened to me the other day and I believe I just responded with a "do I seem that easy?" He said no, but it was worth a shot. I kind of consider that flirting. I mean...if you use those exact words its deifnitely BAD flirting, and you probably will not get sex, but still flirting.

[Coidzor]

That reminds me a man once came up to me and complimented me on my breasts. He wasn't hitting on me or anything, he just walked up to me and said I had great breasts, and he smiled, I thanked him and he went away.
I couldn't imagine ever being upset about that. I don't see why it should make me less happy than if he had said I had a great smile, for instance.

Heck, I know plenty of people who would be upset if a strange man walked up to them and complimented them on their smile.

...And a couple who would view such behavior as the kind of thing to discourage/stamp-out because of hypersensitivity to the omnipresent threat of being raped.

[Mordokai]

I re-read what I quoted and I'm not sure what you mean. Or did you mean to read your other posts more closely?

EDIT: I went to re-read your other posts and I'm still not sure what you mean. Do you consider "gay porn" to mean "porn for gays?" For me, it's "porn featuring two people of the same gender". Most woman-on woman porn is intended for men as far as I know, so maybe you still consider it to be "hetero porn"?

Then I'll spell it out, since maybe I did word it a little awkwardly.

If you watched porn that has women playing in it, because of the women in question, you've(as in, anybody who watched that kind of porn, not you specifically) objectified women. Be it straight porn or woman on woman porn.

Atlantean Troll said there's other than just hetero porn out there and that means you're not necesarily objectifying women by watching it. I say that if that porn has no women playing in it, it has no bearing on discussion at hand.

Sorry if I hadn't made myself clear enough.

[haveabrain]

Then I'll spell it out, since maybe I did word it a little awkwardly.

If you watched porn that has women playing in it, because of the women in question, you've(as in, anybody who watched that kind of porn, not you specifically) objectified women. Be it straight porn or woman on woman porn.

Atlantean Troll said there's other than just hetero porn out there and that means you're not necesarily objectifying women by watching it. I say that if that porn has no women playing in it, it has no bearing on discussion at hand.

Sorry if I hadn't made myself clear enough

Feel like we're leaving out a very important point...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asj-tiIp8DA

[Mordokai]

You're right. But will you please point at the exact point where I said women can only be objectified by men?

Hell, objectification all around! We live in democracy, after all

[haveabrain]

You're right. But will you please point at the exact point where I said women can only be objectified by men?

Hell, objectification all around! We live in democracy, after all

Exactly. Now, the real sexism comes from this only women can be objectified stuff. Or that we need to be saved from being objectified because we are the weaker of the sexes.

That is kind of why this thread is a bit sexist.

[ZombyWoof]

No I would not be insulted. lol this happened to me the other day and I believe I just responded with a "do I seem that easy?".

What if instead he said, "I hope so, at least. I'm not too good at this sort of game" ?

EDIT: I would like to point out that haveabrain is saying (perhaps more accurately) what I've been trying to say for a while now.

[Mordokai]

Exactly. Now, the real sexism comes from this only women can be objectified stuff. Or that we need to be saved from being objectified because we are the weaker of the sexes.

That is kind of why this thread is a bit sexist.

Hey, feel free to objectify me any day of the week. I don't mind.

Please?

[haveabrain]

What if instead he said, "I hope so, at least. I'm not too good at this sort of game" ?

EDIT: I would like to point out that haveabrain is saying (perhaps more accurately) what I've been trying to say for a while now.

Sorry, I have a bad case of post-before-reading.

And if he said that I'd say, "Well, get better at it, 'cause I'm not." And I would also know that he prob was good at this game, 'cause that line wasn't half bad.

Hey, feel free to objectify me any day of the week. I don't mind.

Haha honestly? I will be the first to admit that I probably do objectify men AND see women as kind of the superior sex. That is why I LIKE meaningless sex. I don't find most men capable of being in a relationship with me, as I am pretty strong and most guys are intimidated by a strong, independent, pretty girl. So for me it's a little like lawl you're cute hunny but you're not much more than that.

But I will openly admit to being a bit sexist that way. At least I treat guys like my equals though, in that if I can be used I don't see a problem using them

EDIT: You made a super point back on page 1 that I want to emphasize..

All you men who consider yourselves feminist and all supporting-women and crap, GET OVER YOURSELVES. Really. I hate to be harsh but you will NEVER UNDERSTAND how it is to be a women and the most offensive thing you can do is pretend you understand the plight of women. I mean, really? Think to your girlfriends, if you have one/had one, were you really that good to them? Or did you pretend you understand women and then take for granted the girls who are actually around you, or better yet do you treat all your friends who are girls as things to "protect?" Yeah, even if you won't admit to it I have met my fair share of guys who "get" women.

You want to support women? Stop trying to understand us on this universal level. We are individuals, some strong some weak some stupid some smart. And treat the individual women you meet as you would treat an individual man, because anything else is just offensive.

That's the end of my rant, thanks.

[golentan]

Hey, feel free to objectify me any day of the week. I don't mind.

Please?

Consider yourself objectified you wonderful studmuffin you. Get over here and...

oh, I'm sorry. You weren't talking to me, were you?

[Themrys]

its more like walking up to girls
and literally asking them to a one night stand just out of nowhere

Well, a lot depends on how the question is asked. I certainly am insulted if someone acts as if I was a prostitute.
However, I like it when people just say what they want, so I don't waste time trying to find out what they want. So, I'd prefer the polite question whether I am into one night stands or not, so I can just say no and walk away.
Men who offer to buy me a drink for the exact same purpose are more confusing.

Same goes for "Hey, you look pretty, want to date?" - at least there is a chance I find the guy attractive and say yes. While asking me stupid questions like "Don't I know you from somewhere?" is absolutely pointless, for I only answer them truthfully and then walk away. On a good day, I realize in the evening that, maybe, the guy knew he didn't know me and wanted to change that.

In my case, asking guys for dates just because they're good-looking would make sense since I have a weird taste and only seldom get to know any guys I find attractive.
However, I just can't. If I consider it, I start thinking how stupid it is to date someone without knowing in the least whether he's a decent human being.

[Mordokai]

Sorry, I have a bad case of post-before-reading.

And if he said that I'd say, "Well, get better at it, 'cause I'm not." And I would also know that he prob was good at this game, 'cause that line wasn't half bad.



Haha honestly? I will be the first to admit that I probably do objectify men AND see women as kind of the superior sex. That is why I LIKE meaningless sex. I don't find most men capable of being in a relationship with me, as I am pretty strong and most guys are intimidated by a strong, independent, pretty girl. So for me it's a little like lawl you're cute hunny but you're not much more than that.

But I will openly admit to being a bit sexist that way. At least I treat guys like my equals though, in that if I can be used I don't see a problem using them

EDIT: You made a super point back on page 1 that I want to emphasize..

All you men who consider yourselves feminist and all supporting-women and crap, GET OVER YOURSELVES. Really. I hate to be harsh but you will NEVER UNDERSTAND how it is to be a women and the most offensive thing you can do is pretend you understand the plight of women. I mean, really? Think to your girlfriends, if you have one/had one, were you really that good to them? Or did you pretend you understand women and then take for granted the girls who are actually around you, or better yet do you treat all your friends who are girls as things to "protect?" Yeah, even if you won't admit to it I have met my fair share of guys who "get" women.

You want to support women? Stop trying to understand us on this universal level. We are individuals, some strong some weak some stupid some smart. And treat the individual women you meet as you would treat an individual man, because anything else is just offensive.

That's the end of my rant, thanks.

Really? What did you say your number was again...

Consider yourself objectified you wonderful studmuffin you. Get over here and...

oh, I'm sorry. You weren't talking to me, were you?

I didn't, but don't let that stop you. It's a free country, after all

[haveabrain]

To prove my point, go ahead and skip to 9:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mwZ...eature=related

[haveabrain]

Really? What did you say your number was again...

Haha men are so easy. I could be a total uggo, y'know.

I mean, I'm not, but how would you know that

[haveabrain]

However, I just can't. If I consider it, I start thinking how stupid it is to date someone without knowing in the least whether he's a decent human being.

..? If you don't date somebody, how on earth are you going to know if they are a decent human being.
I think that's the point of dating.

[Mordokai]

To prove my point, go ahead and skip to 9:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mwZ...eature=related

No habla espanol, bonita senorita

Haha men are so easy. I could be a total uggo, y'know.

I mean, I'm not, but how would you know that

What is life without little risk?

[SDF]

I'll objectify the snot out of girls. I've always been a fan of Nietzscheian philosophy, and the inequality of people.

The premise of this topic is ridiculous. No one is going to see themselves as discriminatory in a modern democratic society. It's like starting a topic asking if you are the only person that doesn't kick puppies, and expecting the boot wearing cretins to come out of the woodwork.

[ZombyWoof]

Sorry, I have a bad case of post-before-reading.

Um wut.

And if he said that I'd say, "Well, get better at it, 'cause I'm not." And I would also know that he prob was good at this game, 'cause that line wasn't half bad.

If I'd heard that, I'd throw out, "Sucks to be me then because I don't play around. Games are for people who are afraid to speak their mind and simply ask for what they want, and I'm no coward. You're either in or you're out."

Alternatively if I was feeling risque I'd sneeze and say "sorry, I'm allergic to bull." But really the difference between the two would depend on your tone of voice. Are you making it clear to me that you view me as an inferior yet?

Haha honestly? I will be the first to admit that I probably do objectify men AND see women as kind of the superior sex. That is why I LIKE meaningless sex. I don't find most men capable of being in a relationship with me, as I am pretty strong and most guys are intimidated by a strong, independent, pretty girl. So for me it's a little like lawl you're cute hunny but you're not much more than that.

This sounds like a copout more than anything else. Nice to know you're too strong and independent for me to handle, eh?

But I will openly admit to being a bit sexist that way. At least I treat guys like my equals though, in that if I can be used I don't see a problem using them

Congratulations you contribute to the problem.

EDIT: You made a super point back on page 1 that I want to emphasize..

All you men who consider yourselves feminist and all supporting-women and crap, GET OVER YOURSELVES. Really. I hate to be harsh but you will NEVER UNDERSTAND how it is to be a women and the most offensive thing you can do is pretend you understand the plight of women. I mean, really? Think to your girlfriends, if you have one/had one, were you really that good to them? Or did you pretend you understand women and then take for granted the girls who are actually around you, or better yet do you treat all your friends who are girls as things to "protect?" Yeah, even if you won't admit to it I have met my fair share of guys who "get" women.

You want to support women? Stop trying to understand us on this universal level. We are individuals, some strong some weak some stupid some smart. And treat the individual women you meet as you would treat an individual man, because anything else is just offensive.

That's the end of my rant, thanks.

Please stop doing this. I get all set in my ways thinking I'm going to hate you, then i realize I agree with you entirely, then I feel like we're almost half-buttockedly flirting on some forum, and then I realize I linked to femblog?

I feel like jello right now. This thread has me all topsy turvey and I have to watch out before I casserole* all over this thread.

*was looking for a food word. Sorry.

Oh by the way call me out all you like but I treat people around me with dignity and respect when I feel like it, and like a jerk when I don't. Have I treated my girlfriends perfectly? Lol hell no, but anyone who claims to have treated their genderfriend with perfect kindness all the time is a flaming liar.

P.S. Haveabrain, two things on a personal note:

1) It's the "edit" key, it's like just above the "reply" key.
2) A girl worth fighting for!!!

[loopy]

As strange as it may seem from my Playground rep, I don't objectify girls, and heap scorn upon those who do.

The way to get girls is to realise they are all unique, with their own upsides and downsides. Well, its the way to get girls who actually leave your life holding some respect for you, anyway.

[haveabrain]

Um wut.

You said I was making the point you wanted to make, but I hadn't read your posts before I posted.

If I'd heard that, I'd throw out, "Sucks to be me then because I don't play around. Games are for people who are afraid to speak their mind and simply ask for what they want, and I'm no coward. You're either in or you're out."

HAHA this is ironic because you wouldve been the one who suggested it was a game. If you haven't noticed ALREADY I am an incredibly up front person and I don't do bs either. So I would answer "I don't play games either. I will be up front, if you want me you have to work for me. I'm simply not that easy, but worth it."
All is true.

Alternatively if I was feeling risque I'd sneeze and say "sorry, I'm allergic to bull." But really the difference between the two would depend on your tone of voice. Are you making it clear to me that you view me as an inferior yet?

I don't try to make men or anybody feel inferior. Now, I SAID that yes, I usually view men as inferior. I don't flaunt that thought, it's a fault. But I don't try and hide my faults generally.

Oh by the way call me out all you like but I treat people around me with dignity and respect when I feel like it, and like a jerk when I don't. Have I treated my girlfriends perfectly? Lol hell no, but anyone who claims to have treated their genderfriend with perfect kindness all the time is a flaming liar.

Exactly. Now, you don't seem like you're putting on this feminist front though. And my point is just that you're true "feminism" is not based off philosophy or your opinions of women in a societal view, but how you treat the real women in your life. And I know many'o'men who think they're feminist and then treat their S.O.'s like ****. It's just true.

2) A girl worth fighting for!!!

Confused by this statement.

This sounds like a copout more than anything else. Nice to know you're too strong and independent for me to handle, eh?

For MOST men to handle. Now, if you're an independent guy who admires an honest, blunt, and often challenging then lady then you're golden. But I don't find these men terribly often. It's not a copout, I give most guys a chance. But they do usually fail miserably.

Please stop doing this. I get all set in my ways thinking I'm going to hate you, then i realize I agree with you entirely, then I feel like we're almost half-buttockedly flirting on some forum, and then I realize I linked to femblog?

I feel like jello right now. This thread has me all topsy turvey and I have to watch out before I casserole* all over this thread.

If I said "I have this effect on people" I sound conceited, but I do. People views of me are often polarized and sometimes to the point of loving-then-hating or hating-then-loving. I wonder why.

[ZombyWoof]

You said I was making the point you wanted to make, but I hadn't read your posts before I posted.

Oh. Well I was pointing out that you were saying what I wanted to say and tried to say, nothing else.

I don't try to make men or anybody feel inferior. Now, I SAID that yes, I usually view men as inferior. I don't flaunt that thought, it's a fault. But I don't try and hide my faults generally.

Well then I'd be glad to stick with the coward comment

Exactly. Now, you don't seem like you're putting on this feminist front though. And my point is just that you're true "feminism" is not based off philosophy or your opinions of women in a societal view, but how you treat the real women in your life. And I know many'o'men who think they're feminist and then treat their S.O.'s like ****. It's just true.

*Ahem* "your" not "you're."

And when asked I usually used to say "no" until I started reading up on third-wave feminism. Now I say "Kind of sort of third wave feminist." I'd never introduce myself as "I'm a feminist" though, because that implies I care about the "plight" of women. I don't. I care that people are being treated like crap and their gender is entirely irrelevant to me. So in the sense that you'll never see me campaigning for women's rights, I'm no feminist. But in the sense that the moment I see someone, well, posting an OP like this one I'll jump in and point out the major flaws in his reasoning, I guess I am. In the sense that I freely use those "bad" terms (that I'm not allowed to say for fear of the moderation) I'm definitely not a feminist and would often be called a homophobe as well. But in the sense that I treat my friends with dignity male or female, I guess I am?

Whatever. Keep your labels. I'd rather just go along being human.

Confused by this statement.

See, in this movie, Mulan sets up a really funny line.

For MOST men to handle. Now, if you're an independent guy who admires an honest, blunt, and often challenging then lady then you're golden. But I don't find these men terribly often. It's not a copout, I give most guys a chance. But they do usually fail miserably.

What if I'm an honest, blunt, and often challenging guy who will gladly point out your grammar errors, such as an extra "then" in front of "lady"? Do I at least win the bronze?

If I said "I have this effect on people" I sound conceited, but I do. People views of me are often polarized and sometimes to the point of loving-then-hating or hating-then-loving. I wonder why.

Oh trust me this isn't YOU having the effect on me. It's the entire situation. I LINKED FEMBLOG FOR THE LOVE OF PETE! I had to scrub off in bleach after that.


He's big. HE'S BAD! Watch out ladies, because here comes Da Woof!

No habla espanol, bonita senorita

*senorita bonita

Not only does he correct grammar in english, but fixes it in spanish too! And the crowd goes wild!

[Coidzor]

As strange as it may seem from my Playground rep, I don't objectify girls, and heap scorn upon those who do.

Not really. It's pretty good, as far as I can tell.

Haha men are so easy. I could be a total uggo, y'know.

If too ugly to sex up
Then no loss beyond a bit of time.
Else Profit!

Seeing an ugly person generally doesn't cause SAN damage or anything.

[Mordokai]

*senorita bonita

Not only does he correct grammar in english, but fixes it in spanish too! And the crowd goes wild!

I get the feeling you're mocking me...

Watch it. I said it's ok to objectify me, not mock me

[profitofrage]

All you men who consider yourselves feminist and all supporting-women and crap, GET OVER YOURSELVES. Really. I hate to be harsh but you will NEVER UNDERSTAND how it is to be a women and the most offensive thing you can do is pretend you understand the plight of women. I mean, really? Think to your girlfriends, if you have one/had one, were you really that good to them? Or did you pretend you understand women and then take for granted the girls who are actually around you, or better yet do you treat all your friends who are girls as things to "protect?" Yeah, even if you won't admit to it I have met my fair share of guys who "get" women.

You want to support women? Stop trying to understand us on this universal level. We are individuals, some strong some weak some stupid some smart. And treat the individual women you meet as you would treat an individual man, because anything else is just offensive.

That's the end of my rant, thanks.

Ok im not sure if anyone has adressed this yet but after reading it I feel I have to for the sake of mankind.
This idea that noone can understand something unless they are in that exact same precise situation no matter what is very very very inaccurate...
Sure it helps if a person has been in that position..but for people with compassion, understanding and a good handful of intellegence can understand the various issues other people face. Its called Empathy...humans develope Empathy over the course of there lives. Empathy allows people to think "what if i were in that situation?" and understand how the other person may feel.
Your self admitted sexism and disliking of males has obviously reinforced this stuid ideal that men cant possibly understand "the womens plight" and thus are just being stupid when some say they do (I actually agree that alot of the people I see saying they do..clearly dont but still my point remains valid).

As to the topic of the forum....geeze..Can we move past this "put women up on a pedestal" frame of mind society is on at the moment...
I mean I understand that when society goes through a social shift..it does so in a see sore (spelling?) motion..where first were completly ignorant of something..then we jump on it to the extreme before finally after decades it evening out...but damb this one has been going on way to long in my opinion.

i guess to be fair there are still some places in the world (and even next door) that have yet to even address the issue..but its not going to encourage them to move on when everyone else is sticking to the extreme instead of letting things get to that acceptable goey grey area of acceptability ( yea i said it twice).

[golentan]

Yeah... I was doing this tongue biting thing I've been doing lately to avoid getting into massive flamewars. Since you've admitted your sexism is a character flaw... that throws previous comments into another light that doesn't make me as angry. So I'm unbiting my tongue to give what I hope is constructive criticism.

I would suggest people's mixed reactions may have something to do with the way you phrase your statements. See, when you phrase an insult towards large chunks of the audience, it's offputting to have it not phrased as an insult or to be directed seemingly indiscriminately beyond the actual targets. And when you are making a simple statement of intent or belief, it's similarly offputting to have it phrased as an insult or challenge. I know this to be true because I spent long years learning that sentence structure and connotation mattered as much or more than underlying logic structures and annotation to you people.

[ZombyWoof]

Seeing an ugly person generally doesn't cause SAN damage or anything.

Depends on how ugly

I get the feeling you're mocking me...

Watch it. I said it's ok to objectify me, not mock me

It's ok dear I'm mocking my own grammar-nazi ways

[Themrys]

..? If you don't date somebody, how on earth are you going to know if they are a decent human being.
I think that's the point of dating.

Sometimes, you get to talk to guys without dating them. It does happen. Also, you get to see who their friends are. Which is important. If you date a guy, he always tries to behave properly...the real face, you only see if he doesn't know he's watched.

And I know lots and lots of guys who seem quite decent...and whom I don't date because their looks aren't to my taste. It does make me feel a tiny bit shallow.

[haveabrain]

See, in this movie, Mulan sets up a really funny line.

Hahah well yeah that might be accurate.

What if I'm an honest, blunt, and often challenging guy who will gladly point out your grammar errors, such as an extra "then" in front of "lady"? Do I at least win the bronze?

You win a tiring 3:45 am stare and possibly a screw you bro, it's late and this isn't english.
But, seriously. Yes, I do like the honest, blunt, willing to tell me I'm wrong thing. The thing is, if ever you end up offending me, I'd tell you in a very direct way. This actually happened the other night with this blunt guy I'm talking to, and it ended in a simple "sorry."
That's the TRUE difference between playing games and being honest, saying what you think regardless of if it's going well or not. But I digress.



In reference to anything ELSE, simply saying that you have to work for me is not playing a game. I was pretty straight-forward, I didn't pretend to do/be anything I'm not, and if you choose not to work for it well, then, you won't. But I like to keep it very simple.
I get a lot of offers, so if you want to get yours (or it) in, then yeah I need to be impressed a bit.
This scenario is excluding, say, if I just run into an attractive guy who is dtf. Because the conversation just wouldn't occur