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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    So... he'd be Peter Griffin.
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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    This is the quote I saw:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilpal
    Quote Originally Posted by Maese Mateo
    Does this mean that Autochton's nature is to be in the middle path within Machine-God (Primordial) and Engine of Extintion (Neverborn)?
    What it means is that his Charm tree has a Void branch to i that threads through the Charm set like a tumor, embedded so thoroughly you can't rip it out without collapsing all the trees. It even has clauses that make it worsen through fetich death rather than allowing a roulette chance of getting better.
    Poor guy is ****ed right and proper.
    Note that this is merely freelancer opinion, and subject to change should we ever get an Autochthon charmset.

    Edit: and I apparently can't find the original post. I know I saw this when it was posted, so it must have been lost in the forum shuffle or something.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2011-04-28 at 09:51 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    That's fine. Rip it out and collapse all the trees, then play russian feitch roulette.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardea View Post
    That is the scariest two lines I have read in a forum of any kind.
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  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    That's stupid and not the way Primordials work. The only way to keep charms after Fetich Death is for someone else to know them.

    (For the purposes of this, charms adapated by other Primordials don't count, because when a Primordial learns someone else's carm it becomes their charm.)
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    That's stupid and not the way Primordials work. The only way to keep charms after Fetich Death is for someone else to know them.

    (For the purposes of this, charms adapated by other Primordials don't count, because when a Primordial learns someone else's carm it becomes their charm.)
    There are charms that once you learn, you can't unlearn (I think there's one in RotSE - one of the Yozi transcendence charms). This is just an extension of that.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    There are charms that once you learn, you can't unlearn (I think there's one in RotSE - one of the Yozi transcendence charms). This is just an extension of that.
    No see the not unlearning thing is for stuff like Triumphant Howl and that tree. You lose Cosmic Principle when you suffer Fetich Death, it's just replaced with a different Cosmic Principle.

    @Yuki: That's only GSPs not just anyone. And that line is a little unclear. For instance it could just mean that Green Sun Princes keep their Charms but the Yozis themselves get a whole new set of equivalent or greater power.
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  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    If Fetich Death didn't cause Adrian to unlearn Adrian Cosmic Principle she would not be Adorjan. She'd still be Adrian.

    Therefore, Fetich Death makes you unlearn charms that say you can't unlearn them.

    Also yeah I guess it is specific to GSPs.

    Edit: I guess another way of looking at it is that you keep all the transcendence charms - their names and specific-to-a-certain-Yozi text just change.

    Because without (foo) Pantheon Unfurling you wouldn't be able to make your new fetich.

    But basically you still lose all the specific-to-you parts of those charms. Which would include Gremlin Syndrome, if that's part of Autochthon Cosmic Principle or Autothchon Worldshaper Assumption or whatever.

    Edit2: On reading through the Yozi transcendence charms again, they keep making mention of experience points. This makes me wonder what a Primordial's experience point chart looks like.

    Obviously, they can't buy Attributes, Abilities or Combos, but what about everything else?

    Edit3: I enjoy Ebby's Limit Break. It specifically mentions stealing a child's toy. He is so... petty.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2011-04-28 at 10:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    I meant an extension of that concept, not that particular effect. If a charm says that it changes in such and such a way upon the titan's fetich death, then that's how it would change upon the titan's fetich death, because that specific rule overwrites the general rule.

    Also, not canon. Also also, your Creation may vary.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    ...your Creation may vary.
    "yCmv" needs to become a new acronym in the community.

    Also, I feel dumb forgetting that Fonzie was a mechanic. To be fair, Happy Days was canceled a few years before I was born.
    Last edited by Xefas; 2011-04-28 at 10:22 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    I thought that by "The Fonz is a mechanic," you meant a game mechanic. And I was trying to figure out if there was an "Eyyyyy!" Charm, or you felt that social combat encouraged Fonz-like behavior, or what.
    I do not feel intelligent right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Well, if it makes you feel better, here is my charm for Malfeas punching jukeboxes back to life. Impertinence-Mending Hammer.

    So, he is sort of a game mechanic now, too.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    That's stupid and not the way Primordials work. The only way to keep charms after Fetich Death is for someone else to know them.

    (For the purposes of this, charms adapated by other Primordials don't count, because when a Primordial learns someone else's carm it becomes their charm.)
    Gremlin Syndrome might involve infecting the victims with the charm or charms that constitute it - which would mean the charms survive fetich death.

    Edit: To preempt "But only Exalts have access to that kind of shenanigans," I'd note that Autochthon has the secrets of Exaltation built into his structure. If any Primordial can pull off Exalt shenanigans, it's that.

    It'd be particularly interesting if one of Autochthon's Exalt-related charms is also one of his Gremlin Syndrome charms. It provides an interesting possibility for the Great Curse - that the Neverborn activated it by exploiting his sickness. Also, that the Yozis were afraid of trying to work with the Exaltations in any way during the war because they could sense that disease upon them.
    Last edited by Indon; 2011-04-28 at 11:49 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    Gremlin Syndrome might involve infecting the victims with the charm or charms that constitute it - which would mean the charms survive fetich death.
    As I explained it's only Green Sun Prince that count. Also after reading Ebby's Pantheon Unfurling I'm leaning more towards the interpretation that you don't keep the Charm that they preserve only the Exalts in question do.
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  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine View Post
    As I explained it's only Green Sun Prince that count. Also after reading Ebby's Pantheon Unfurling I'm leaning more towards the interpretation that you don't keep the Charm that they preserve only the Exalts in question do.
    Man, my siderealing got sidereal'd. Note my previous post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    Man, my siderealing got sidereal'd. Note my previous post.
    It's GSPs specifically not just Exalts because Exalted Akuma don't preserve the Charms. Though I do like the idea of the Exalt Charms being tied in with his sickness. Anyway there is some evidence that Gremlins do have some Autochthons Charms. Namely Void Lords can get thematically warped Sorcery and Necromancy. Sounds like Sorcerous Initiation of Autochthon to me. Which means that there are in fact at least three living Primordials that can access Necromancy, still Autobot seem like a fitting addition to that particular club. Especially if it's drawback is that it's tied in with his sickness Charms.
    Last edited by Sanguine; 2011-04-29 at 12:27 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Sorry, tooting my own horn and all, but I have not designed some martial arts, which are over here.

    The first few are existing martial arts (well, they're not, but they are) at Celestial and Sidereal level, and the last one is new, but it's also not a martial art - any opinion on what tier it is, or what the not-charms past the not-form should be?

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    Okay, people, I need help: I've budgeted for a 3-dot artifact spear/halberd of some kind. The Dire Lance's core stats are okay, but that's still only a 2-dot (and not as powerful as the 1-dot Short Daiklaives that everyone else in the party seems to have, anyway). Are there any cool ideas that any of you might have for such a thing? It's been days, and all I've been able to do is despair over the lack of love spears and halberds get in the books, despite being the #1 weapon in Creation.

    (this is cross-posted in my actual party's recruitment thread, to maximize my chances of getting halp)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine View Post
    Who said this?
    Michael Goodwin, aka Nephipal, has said this on the White Wolf forums a few times. Now, he's not the developer, so the existence of such Charms isn't actually canonical, but he is one of the line's main writers, and his opinions on things like that usually turn out to be true if they're ever addressed.

    And yeah, he said that Autochthon's cancer is threaded through his Charm trees and have a special effect on them that prevents them from being removed by anything, including fetich death. Killing Autochthon would actually just create a new, even more cancerous Primordial, as it developed new cancer-Charms that were then unremovable.
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    So we need some Essence 10 Medicine Charms then, possibly done by both Solar and Abyssal at the same time, to split it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardea View Post
    That is the scariest two lines I have read in a forum of any kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    Okay, people, I need help: I've budgeted for a 3-dot artifact spear/halberd of some kind. The Dire Lance's core stats are okay, but that's still only a 2-dot (and not as powerful as the 1-dot Short Daiklaives that everyone else in the party seems to have, anyway). Are there any cool ideas that any of you might have for such a thing? It's been days, and all I've been able to do is despair over the lack of love spears and halberds get in the books, despite being the #1 weapon in Creation.

    (this is cross-posted in my actual party's recruitment thread, to maximize my chances of getting halp)
    Could use a crystalburst lance out of alchemicals, or some similarly refluffed weapon.
    BEEP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Michael Goodwin, aka Nephipal, has said this on the White Wolf forums a few times. Now, he's not the developer, so the existence of such Charms isn't actually canonical, but he is one of the line's main writers, and his opinions on things like that usually turn out to be true if they're ever addressed.

    And yeah, he said that Autochthon's cancer is threaded through his Charm trees and have a special effect on them that prevents them from being removed by anything, including fetich death. Killing Autochthon would actually just create a new, even more cancerous Primordial, as it developed new cancer-Charms that were then unremovable.
    From what I've seen, Neph is pretty big on tragedy, on stuff being irreversible and on things getting worse and having huge unforeseen consequences. So it doesn't surprise me that he'd say that, to be honest.

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Which defeats the point of 'with enough epicness, yes you can fix the setting.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardea View Post
    That is the scariest two lines I have read in a forum of any kind.
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  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochar View Post
    Which defeats the point of 'with enough epicness, yes you can fix the setting.'
    I dunno about defeating it. It's just that when you have that much epicness, you need epic bad stuff to address with it. Unforeseen consequences provides a convenient self-scaling campaign!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    From what I've seen, Neph is pretty big on tragedy, on stuff being irreversible and on things getting worse and having huge unforeseen consequences. So it doesn't surprise me that he'd say that, to be honest.
    So yes, I feel safe in ignoring anything he says that isn't actually published.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    I dunno about defeating it. It's just that when you have that much epicness, you need epic bad stuff to address with it. Unforeseen consequences provides a convenient self-scaling campaign!
    When he says. "No matter what you do Autochthon's sickness will not get better." That's not giving epic bad stuff to address, that's saying "No you can't fix this this."
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    There is simple solution to Autobot's Charm-caused cancer.

    Make Akuma, teach it Autochton's all non-cancer charms ... and viola we have healthy Autobot !

    And Yeah, I dislike the notion of things being irreversible COMPLETELY. It's cool in WoD, where stuff like Exaltations or Sorcery doesn't exist. But in Exalted You could DO stuff. Tragedies occuring regardless of Your actions aren't interesting in the least. Tragedies should occur BECAUSE of your actions.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    There is simple solution to Autobot's Charm-caused cancer.

    Make Akuma, teach it Autochton's all non-cancer charms ... and viola we have healthy Autobot !

    And Yeah, I dislike the notion of things being irreversible COMPLETELY. It's cool in WoD, where stuff like Exaltations or Sorcery doesn't exist. But in Exalted You could DO stuff. Tragedies occuring regardless of Your actions aren't interesting in the least. Tragedies should occur BECAUSE of your actions.
    Akuma can't learn Cosmic Principle as I understand it.

    However a Solar with Primordial Principle Emulation can.

    However I wouldn't be surprised if his early Cancer charms are integral to his tree like Witness to Darkjness is to TED's.
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    PPE can only be used with the Yozi, due to the Great Curse.

    You'd have to redeem an Abyssal just to learn PPE for Autobot. Now there's an epic quest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardea View Post
    That is the scariest two lines I have read in a forum of any kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    So yes, I feel safe in ignoring anything he says that isn't actually published.
    Oh, indeed my point. Of the freelancers, his is usually the opinion I take the least into account, to be honest. Guy just has entirely opposite sensibilities from me, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine View Post
    When he says. "No matter what you do Autochthon's sickness will not get better." That's not giving epic bad stuff to address, that's saying "No you can't fix this this."
    While that's true, there is a middle ground between "totally impossible" and "lolFetichdeath".

    I feel like if it were that easy, Malfeas would have taken a whack at Autochthon at some point. His cancer seriously creeps the other Primordials out, after all.

    Maybe reversing Autochthon's cancer actually requires you to turn him into a Neverborn, and then resurrect him, leaving his disease behind. Hell, maybe Autochthon's cancer is actually the key to reviving the Neverborn, because it will stay alive even after he dies and inject life into the Dead.

    Something like fixing Autochthon's disease forever should be epic enough that it's not a simple matter of solving everything with a couple of Medicine Charms or a stabbing.
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