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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    oh right, just remembered, got a question.

    what if I implemented a house rule where instead of adding health levels for each point of stamina you have, you instead multiply the total number of health levels you start with by the number of dots in stamina you have? do you think that it would change the game for better or worse?

    also, think it would be better if Ox-Body Technique gave you at least 10 health levels per purchase?
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2011-05-02 at 06:19 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    Hey question for the optimizing-types (meschulum, for example):

    Is there any way to give an Enlightened Mortal high Essence (6+) without them becoming something other than an Enlightened Mortal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Is there any way to give an Enlightened Mortal high Essence (6+) without them becoming something other than an Enlightened Mortal?
    You can't give an Enlightened Mortal Essence 4+ without them becoming something else.

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Hey question for the optimizing-types (meschulum, for example):

    Is there any way to give an Enlightened Mortal high Essence (6+) without them becoming something other than an Enlightened Mortal?
    Nope, three is the absolute maximum for a mortal (see: Perfect).

    They can transcend that by becoming something more then mortal, but there's no way to get Essence 4+ without becoming a god, or a demon, or whatever.
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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    oh right, just remembered, got a question.

    what if I implemented a house rule where instead of adding health levels for each point of stamina you have, you instead multiply the total number of health levels you start with by the number of dots in stamina you have? do you think that it would change the game for better or worse?

    also, think it would be better if Ox-Body Technique gave you at least 10 health levels per purchase?
    Would this include mortals? And, well, I'm not sure how much it would change things. Each dot in stamina would be...about 4 ox body techniques. So combat would last a lot longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Hey question for the optimizing-types (meschulum, for example):

    Is there any way to give an Enlightened Mortal high Essence (6+) without them becoming something other than an Enlightened Mortal?
    I'm pretty sure that it's a hard rule that you have to change what you are to go above essence 3.
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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Would this include mortals? And, well, I'm not sure how much it would change things. Each dot in stamina would be...about 4 ox body techniques. So combat would last a lot longer.
    no, it would not include mortals. only Exalts and other spirit type stuff. and yes, kinda the point so that combat isn't super-lethally high and such.
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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Well, it'd make Vodak unkillable, since his stamina is rated at "Immeasurable".
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    Quote Originally Posted by senrath View Post
    Well, it'd make Vodak unkillable, since his stamina is rated at "Immeasurable".
    whats a Vodak? please explain.
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  9. - Top - End - #489
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    I don't think it would help. As I understand it, one of the main things about lethality is that doing infinite damage is quite possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    whats a Vodak? please explain.
    He's one of the three behemoth-oids statted out in CoTD: North. Specifically, he's a hekatonkhire with a Stamina of "Immeasurable." That's literally his Stamina. For some reason, this doesn't give him infinite Bashing and Lethal soak, but whatever.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-05-02 at 06:37 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #491
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    He's...whatever the underworld equivalent of behemoths are. Created from the rage of the first primordial killed. Lives under Gethame, in the north.
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    .....ok......would this be a good thing, disregarding the various unbalanced stuff and cheese stuff?

    Edit: Ok, allow me to phrase that differently....would this help in normal Unoptimized Exalted combat?
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2011-05-02 at 06:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    You can't give an Enlightened Mortal Essence 4+ without them becoming something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    Nope, three is the absolute maximum for a mortal (see: Perfect).

    They can transcend that by becoming something more then mortal, but there's no way to get Essence 4+ without becoming a god, or a demon, or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I'm pretty sure that it's a hard rule that you have to change what you are to go above essence 3.
    Hmm...ok, then how about this: can you make a mortal who for all intents and purposes functions at Essence 6+, while still having Essence<4? Perhaps by having some Essence 6+ being made utterly loyal to said mortal, able to defend the mortal using its own perfects, and alterable by the mortal as freely as Exalted can add to their own Charms?
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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Hmm...ok, then how about this: can you make a mortal who for all intents and purposes functions at Essence 6+, while still having Essence<4? Perhaps by having some Essence 6+ being made utterly loyal to said mortal, able to defend the mortal using its own perfects, and alterable by the mortal as freely as Exalted can add to their own Charms?
    Then you're not playing a mortal, you're playing an Essence 6+ being who has a mortal sidekick.

    Not to mention, how would you get such a thing? I can't think of a single Essence 6+ being that would consent to being a mortal's bitch that hard. The closest thing in the setting I can think of is the Perfect, who has Scarlet Whisper (an Eclipse), but she's only Essence 2, was raised from birth to obey him, he has the Artifact N/A Utopiastick, and he's the most powerful mortal in the entire setting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I'm pretty sure that it's a hard rule that you have to change what you are to go above essence 3.
    Not quite.

    Fae-blooded explicitly do not ascend when they pass Essence 3.

    So you get a Raksha noble to Empower you, making you fae-blooded (and no longer mortal, but if you're into system hacks 90% of the population could be fae-blooded anyway), and then you can climb as high as you want.

    Pick up Heart Stopping Numinous Power (requires high Ring and Essence 3), and all your Fair Folk charms (i.e. all your charms) work as if your Essence were 2 higher. Even once you hit Essence 10.


    If you just want a high essence slave, attune to a high Essence noble's Heart Grace. Costs 1 committed mote, gives you an utterly loyal minion. Give it Soul Carving Artifice and it can reinvent itself (and its stuff) completely over the course of a scene, and permanent Assumption of the Person's Heart so it's melded to you until you die and can share its powers - including its pseudo-perfect parries.

  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Am I the only one that wants to play a fair folk game with meschlum as ST?

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    Half-blooded can't go above essence 3, right?
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    @AThousandWords: I would very much like to as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Half-blooded can't go above essence 3, right?
    Not quite. It's heavily stated that it's highly likely for them to have to become a god/ghost/whatever when they hit E4, but not all of them have to. It's up to the ST, pretty much.
    Last edited by senrath; 2011-05-02 at 07:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Half-blooded can't go above essence 3, right?
    Not quite. That is a common belief, but not what the Scroll of Heroes actually says. The Scroll of Heroes is much more ambiguous and leaves it up to the ST.
    It uses words like "often," "might," and "most," instead of "always," "will," and "all." If you want a Essence 6 God-Blood and the ST agree go ahead.

    Edit: I think I'm being followed, but I can't remember by whom.
    Last edited by a_humble_lich; 2011-05-02 at 07:34 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Summing up the above posts- Half-Bloods are strongly suggested to 'ascend' but it's left up to the ST to decide.

    Also, should I post a link to my Exalted game here? Though, I have more than 16 players at this point...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    oh right, just remembered, got a question.

    what if I implemented a house rule where instead of adding health levels for each point of stamina you have, you instead multiply the total number of health levels you start with by the number of dots in stamina you have? do you think that it would change the game for better or worse?
    That seems like too much, mainly due to Lunars. A starting Essence 3 Lunar in war form with Instinctive Stamina Unity and the 2nd Stamina Excellency can easily have 12 Stamina scene-long; 7*12 = 84 health levels. I can get a lot more than that if I actually put effort in.

    There's a common houserule of giving a number of extra -0 health levels equal to your Essence, and one free purchase of Ox-Body per dot of Stamina. By that houserule, the same Lunar would have 55 health levels. Also a lot, but more reasonable, and a lot harder to abuse than if you multiply health levels by Stamina.

    also, think it would be better if Ox-Body Technique gave you at least 10 health levels per purchase?
    That makes it a must-have, and you get few enough Charm slots already. I prefer giving out free health levels to making OBT stronger.

    Another concern with "Give out tons of health levels" fixes is how they interact with existing mechanics around health levels, particularly regeneration.

    For example, the Adamant Skin Gem turns all lethal damage into bashing.
    Celestial Battle Armor with Enhanced Healing heals 1B per tick.
    A Lunar with Bruise-Relief Method can heal 1B per action.
    An Essence 4 Sidereal can take the charm One Direction Invocation, which heals all bashing damage he's taken every action. That's already awesome, but if he has 4 dots of extra Stamina (from using Burn Life), and having 9 Stamina means he has 63 health levels, he's pretty much not going to die ever.
    Storm's Eye Stance becomes awesome for Sidereals, since if you don't have to worry about instant death when you accept damage it turns into a very nice way to screw everyone you're fighting.
    I can't think of any Solaroid regeneration charms, but Overdrive charms like Essence-Gathering Temper become pretty nice with this.

    This is less broken without the Adamant Skin Gem, but Lunars can still regenerate 1L per action (errata'd Halt the Scarlet Flow) and Sids can get 2L (One Direction Invocation + their capstone Medicine charm).

    Effects that require you pay health levels are normally pretty risky and tough decisions. Now? Ha. Abyssals with Blood Before Surrender become pretty much immune to mental influence, in yet another Sidereal example Unweaving Method becomes pretty beastly, and so on.

    In short: giving out extra health levels is a good rule, but be careful about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meschlum View Post
    If you just want a high essence slave, attune to a high Essence noble's Heart Grace. Costs 1 committed mote, gives you an utterly loyal minion. Give it Soul Carving Artifice and it can reinvent itself (and its stuff) completely over the course of a scene, and permanent Assumption of the Person's Heart so it's melded to you until you die and can share its powers - including its pseudo-perfect parries.
    Hmm, this is what I was looking for.

    Some background: standard Exalted fluff is that the world of Exalted eventually gets bent and diminished into the world we have today, with scientists acting as the enforcers of dismal order. Sort of oWoD Technocracy-style. Don't know if it's repeated anywhere else, but it's on the back of the core book. None of the major factions seem like they'd be cool with that. But mortals, if science-minded, might be. Problem is, mortals are weak. But if there's some way for a mortal to exploit a powerful enough entity, then appropriately science-minded mortals could do this often enough to change the status quo. And fair folk are oh so delightfully exploitable.
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  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    snip.
    oh I know about current house rules, I decided to ask those question to see why people haven't tried giving them even more health levels to better simulate epic battle and now I know why.

    thus making fixing the health levels in that specific way not much of a good option, would cause more problems than they solve.

    next experimental question: would it be a good idea to just flat out double all soak? or is it just as bad?
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2011-05-02 at 10:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    next experimental question: would it be a good idea to just flat out double all soak? or is it just as bad?
    It wouldn't really change much unless you also change how minimum damage works.
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  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine View Post
    It wouldn't really change much unless you also change how minimum damage works.
    so is the problem minimum damage then? would it be bad if it was say, removed?
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  27. - Top - End - #507
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    That would make combat bad, because it's pretty easy to get soak high for non-optimized play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    so is the problem minimum damage then? would it be bad if it was say, removed?
    Minimum damage if removed would be a problem yes. Because Lunars and Infernals can get ridiculous amounts of Soak, especially if we are doubling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    so is the problem minimum damage then? would it be bad if it was say, removed?
    I feel the problem is more that it is too easy to end up doing huge amounts of damage, which to fix would require at minimum changing the damage for all weapons, all charms that create weapons, all charms that do damage, and all charms that can add to your damage. Which is a lot of work (although I hear the errata team is working on that now...).

    If you want to reduce lethality, the simplest solution I've heard is to change dying. Replace dying levels with "When reduced below incapacitated a character is unconscious and will die without medical attention. However, no matter how much damage a character take after incapacitated she will still only be unconscious not dead."

    It is still rocket tag, but at least it is not fatal.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

    I see. hmmmm.....but I don't see it as that much work to change the weapon damage stuff......I'd just look at it as doing one thing at a time....looking at the big picture during a project too much can make it seem like a boulder to carry on your shoulders rather than say, a pebble you could carry in your hand.
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