General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

[IcarusWings]

For minimum damage, would it be a bad idea to change it to the highest of the (Attacker's Essence - Defender's Essence, minimum 1) or the Overwhelming tag on the attacking weapon?

[Kyeudo]

I've never quite understood the problem with the only "Minimum damage is 1 die" rules from 1st edition. Something about invincibility was what I was told. Anyone care to explain what the problem was?

[golentan]

I've never quite understood the problem with the only "Minimum damage is 1 die" rules from 1st edition. Something about invincibility was what I was told. Anyone care to explain what the problem was?

As I understand, it allowed the Twilight Anima to prevent the exalt in question from ever taking damage ever with relatively little effort. Though never having played or read 1e that's second hand, so I could have been handed a load of hooey.

[Lix Lorn]

Also, if minimum damage was 1, then a Lunar with the Gift of Halting the Scarlet flow is unstoppable.

Also, Raz, the problem is, as I've heard it described, is that every thing you try to fix is itself already fixing something else. Soak exists so that mortals don't easily swarm exalts. Minimum damage exists so they CAN do so with effort. Hardness exists to stop them from doing it with ease. Etc. And PDs exist because doing stupid damage is WAY too easy.
Everything is balanced like an elephant on top of a very small stick. It's all but unplayable as is, but if you mess with it too much, COLLAPSE.

Am I the only one that wants to play a fair folk game with meschlum as ST?

And no. Me too. So much me too.

[Kris Strife]

So, just what sorts of in character oddities could a Fae get away with and not have the Wyld Hunt, some Lunars or other Fae hunting groups after them, and is it possible to make one who can walk on any ceiling, for the soul purpose of messing with people?

[Lord Raziere]

Also, if minimum damage was 1, then a Lunar with the Gift of Halting the Scarlet flow is unstoppable.

Also, Raz, the problem is, as I've heard it described, is that every thing you try to fix is itself already fixing something else. Soak exists so that mortals don't easily swarm exalts. Minimum damage exists so they CAN do so with effort. Hardness exists to stop them from doing it with ease. Etc. And PDs exist because doing stupid damage is WAY too easy.
Everything is balanced like an elephant on top of a very small stick. It's all but unplayable as is, but if you mess with it too much, COLLAPSE.

good point. now I see why it is so hard to fix the system.

[The Rose Dragon]

good point. now I see why it is so hard to fix the system.

And now you see why some of us have given up and started running Creation-based games in other, more narrative systems.

The best fix to Exalted's system, really, is to play another system. Or create your own. Either way is less of a headache.

[Lord Raziere]

And now you see why some of us have given up and started running Creation-based games in other, more narrative systems.

The best fix to Exalted's system, really, is to play another system. Or create your own. Either way is less of a headache.

hmmmm...I actually am working on my own system, same attributes, skill system and background system as Storyteller system- stuff that it does well- but different health and damage system.

basically, instead of one health bar for all damage, you have multiple ones, one for each different kind of injury- for example your fire health bar is different from your ice health bar, and your blade health bar is different from your blunt health bar, and that at character creation you choose stuff that your strong against and weak against, things you are weak against have a lower health bar and things your strong against have higher health bar.
combat would be about figuring out which health bar is the weak one- their IC weak point- and attacking that one.

[SurlySeraph]

I've never quite understood the problem with the only "Minimum damage is 1 die" rules from 1st edition. Something about invincibility was what I was told. Anyone care to explain what the problem was?

Lix mentioned Halting the Scarlet Flow. Also, Starmetal Armor, Starmetal Thunderbolt Shields, Victorious Concession Form, and probably some other things reduce your opponent's post-soak damage and can reduce minimum damage to 0, so you'd need to rework those.

Also, Raz, the problem is, as I've heard it described, is that every thing you try to fix is itself already fixing something else. Soak exists so that mortals don't easily swarm exalts. Minimum damage exists so they CAN do so with effort. Hardness exists to stop them from doing it with ease. Etc. And PDs exist because doing stupid damage is WAY too easy.
Everything is balanced like an elephant on top of a very small stick. It's all but unplayable as is, but if you mess with it too much, COLLAPSE.

I've become skeptical as to whether the DV caps are worth having, since perfect and undodgeable/ unblockable attacks exist and it seems easier to increase Accuracy than to increase DVs. But otherwise, yes. Exalted's rules are full of patches on patches. Errata Team Prime has said they're working on a lethality fix/ core overhaul, but there's only so much revision you can do short of a new edition.

[MickJay]

hmmmm...I actually am working on my own system, same attributes, skill system and background system as Storyteller system- stuff that it does well- but different health and damage system.

basically, instead of one health bar for all damage, you have multiple ones, one for each different kind of injury- for example your fire health bar is different from your ice health bar, and your blade health bar is different from your blunt health bar, and that at character creation you choose stuff that your strong against and weak against, things you are weak against have a lower health bar and things your strong against have higher health bar.
combat would be about figuring out which health bar is the weak one- their IC weak point- and attacking that one.

How do you treat it if someone takes damage from a variety of sources? E.g. someone getting stabbed, slashed, shot, hit with a hammer, burnt and frozen a bit (and let's assume they're not weak to any of the above)?

[meschlum]

So, just what sorts of in character oddities could a Fae get away with and not have the Wyld Hunt, some Lunars or other Fae hunting groups after them, and is it possible to make one who can walk on any ceiling, for the soul purpose of messing with people?

Walking on ceilings is easy. Gossamer Wing Flight lets you move in 3-d with no drawbacks, so if you want to limit yourself to ceilings, you're set. Take it as a 1-dot Adjuration, and you have the ability always on, for 1 committed mote. Or just take the Charm and have it for free.


As to avoiding the attention of others, why would you want to? Drama is tasty. On the other hand, daiklaives are not, so let's see the options...

- By the book, you can remain Outside Fate for a long time if you don't spend motes and avoid people with Essence over 3. This helps for the purpose of avoiding Sidereals, and the Wyld Hunt that follows. Mad God Mien and Heaven Rains Wisdom both help - and you can use Grace Magic as much as you like.

- Fall of Night Shadows the Truth, as an outward facing Oneiromancy, can make everyone in the local city forget everything you do that is Fae-like. Very good for not getting caught (especially combined with Gladdening Visage).

- Decoys! A Horror (or Monster) just costs gossamer (to make or buy), and can die gloriously in your name when the law comes calling. No mote commitment required.

- Assumption of Elemental Form lets you look like someone with a strong elemental aspect. Say a House Cynis Dragonblood. Add Assumption of Dreams and Pasison to perfect your disguise as an existing Dragonblood, and indulge. Remember, credit goes to you, blame to your double.

- Unless it's part of their essential story, other Fae have little reason to chase you into Creation. If they do come after you, distract them with stuck up Lunars who are looking for someone to blame for becoming allergic to fur.

- If you have a Chancel in your pocket, not only will other Fae be glad to see you, but you don't need to eat souls and can erase yourself from Fate more or less at will. An excellent element of your 'disguise myself as a dung-farming mortal for a century' plan. Plus, it allows you to get the 1-mile wide lemon meringue pie that is essential to Step 2.

[hangedman1984]

Also, Raz, the problem is, as I've heard it described, is that every thing you try to fix is itself already fixing something else. Soak exists so that mortals don't easily swarm exalts. Minimum damage exists so they CAN do so with effort. Hardness exists to stop them from doing it with ease. Etc. And PDs exist because doing stupid damage is WAY too easy.
Everything is balanced like an elephant on top of a very small stick. It's all but unplayable as is, but if you mess with it too much, COLLAPSE.

thats why i'm waiting until 3rd edition

[Qaera]

3rd Edition would be nice, but I think the editors have said they didn't make enough money with 2e to justify a 3e.

[Mr.Bookworm]

thats why i'm waiting until 3rd edition

Yeah, good luck with that.

On the other hand, 2.5 is coming out pretty soon, and then Lunar and then Sidereal errata (in that order). Scroll of the Monk errata is in the works, too.

3rd Edition would be nice, but I think the editors have said they didn't make enough money with 2e to justify a 3e.

I don't know if they've explicitly said that, but it is probably cheaper to use their current model, which everyone seems happy paying money for no matter how much they bitch, then do a whole new edition.

[Psyborg]

So I'm trying to figure out a comprehensive set of guidelines to Essence regeneration and hearthstone function to use in my game. Obviously, there are a zillion cases that we simply aren't told how they work, so this should be considered homebrew/house rules, not a guide to official rules. I'm trying to keep it consistent with what we have been told, so if I've missed a spot where there is a definite rule, please let me know.

Oh, and elemental cores are on hold b/c my copy of Alchemicals is presently inaccessible. Will be doing those shortly.

Spoiler

Show

Functionality of Hearthstones & Elemental Cores By Realm
Format note: "2/+" means the hearthstone provides twice its rating motes per hour, and its power functions normally if socketed. "1/+" would give its rating per hour, and its power would function; "1/-" is rating motes per hour but no power functionality, "0/-" is inert...you get the idea.

{table=head] Manse Location & Aspect | Creation | Yu Shuan | Underworld | Shadowlands | Malfeas | Autocthonia
Creation ~ Terrestrial Elemental | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Creation ~ Autocthonian Elemental** | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Creation ~ Vitriol | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Creation ~ Celestial | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/- | 1/+ | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
Creation ~ Abyssal | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 0/-
Creation ~ Yozi/Primordial | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 1/+ †
(Calibration- Ebon Dragon) | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/-
(Calibration- Other) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Creation ~ Footropolis* | hold | . | . | . | . | .
(Calibration) | hold | . | . | . | . | .
Yu Shuan ~ Terrestrial Elemental | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Yu Shuan ~ Autocthonian Elemental** | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Yu Shuan ~ Vitriol** | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Yu Shuan ~ Celestial | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 0/- | 1/+ | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
Yu Shuan ~ Abyssal |x|x|x|x|x|x
Yu Shuan ~ Yozi/Primordial** | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 1/+ †
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Yu Shuan ~ Footropolis* | hold | . | . | . | . | .
(Calibration) | hold | . | . | . | . | .
Underworld ~ Terrestrial Elemental | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 0/-
Underworld ~ Autocthonian Elemental** | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/-
Underworld ~ Vitriol** | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+
Underworld ~ Celestial |x|x|x|x|x|x
Underworld ~ Abyssal | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 0/-
Underworld ~ Yozi/Primordial |x|x|x|x|x|x
Underworld ~ Footropolis |x|x|x|x|x|x
Shadowlands ~ Terrestrial Elemental | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Shadowlands ~ Autocthonian Elemental** | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Shadowlands ~ Vitriol** | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Shadowlands ~ Celestial (Day) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/-
(Night) | 0/- | 0/- | 0/- | 0/- ‡ | 0/- | 0/-
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 1/+ | 1/+
Shadowlands ~ Abyssal | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 0/-
Shadowlands ~ Yozi/Primordial** (Day) | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ †
(Night- Ebon Dragon) | 0/- | 0/- | 1/- | 2/+ | 1/- | 0/-
(Calibration- Ebon Dragon) | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ / 0/-
(Night- Other) | 0/- | 0/- | 0/- | 0/- ‡ | 0/- | 0/-
(Calibration- Other) | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
Shadowlands ~ Footropolis* | hold | . | . | . | . | .
(Night) | hold | . | . | . | . | .
(Calibration) | hold | . | . | . | . | .
Malfeas ~ Terrestrial Elemental |x|x|x|x|x|x
Malfeas ~ Autocthonian Elemental |x|x|x|x|x|x
Malfeas ~ Vitriol | 2/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Malfeas ~ Celestial |x|x|x|x|x|x
Malfeas ~ Abyssal |x|x|x|x|x|x
Malfeas ~ Yozi/Primordial | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 1/+ †
(Calibration- Ebon Dragon) | 2/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ / 1/+
(Calibration- Other) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Malfeas ~ Footropolis* | hold | . | . | . | . | .
(Calibration) | hold | . | . | . | . | .
Autocthonia ~ Terrestrial Elemental* | 2/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 0/- | 2/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Autocthonia ~ Autocthonian Elemental* | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+ | 2/+
Autocthonia ~ Vitriol* | 2/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
(Calibration) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Autocthonia ~ Celestial |x|x|x|x|x|x
Autocthonia ~ Abyssal* | 1/+ | 0/- | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 2/+
Autocthonia ~ Yozi/Primordial* | 2/+ | 1/+ | 0/- | 0/- | 2/+ | 1/+ †
(Calibration- Ebon Dragon) | 2/+ | 1/+ | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+ | 1/+
(Calibration- Other) | 2/+ | 2/+ | 0/- | 1/+ | 2/+ | 2/+
Autocthonia ~ Footropolis | hold | . | . | . | . | .
(Calibration) | hold | . | . | . | . | . [/table]

* Does not currently exist, but may be possible to construct.
** Current existence neither confirmed nor prohibited- though probably highly unlikely- but may be possible to construct.
Existence definitely or quite likely impossible.
† Unless aspected to Autocthon, in which case 2/+.
‡ Unless in the specific shadowland where the manse is located, in which case 1/+.


Logic (sic) and Assumptions:
1. Non-Vitriol elemental manses cannot be raised in Malfeas, and elemental hearthstones can never fully function in Malfeas, as his world-body expressly lacks any element save Vitriol. Other foreign-element manses (Lightning or Crystal in Creation, Wood in Autocthonia, etc.) are possible, if geomantically complex. (See "Exotic Aspect" 1-pt manse power, DotFA:Lords pg.93)
2. Generally speaking, everything works better everywhere else during Calibration.
3. Abyssal manses (or a close equivalent) are a possible exotic aspect in Autocthon, thanks to his robo-cancer. Malfeas- while admittedly insane, inside-out, and in torment- is physically healthy enough or at least physically indestructible enough to keep his own geomancy abyssal-free.
4. Were Autocthonia and Creation to become mutually accessible, a footropolis could be established anywhere that an Alchemical Exalted would be capable of respiring Essence normally. (It might be necessary to geomantically engineer an Autocthon-aspected manse or at least demesne first.) Such locations could theoretically become shadowlands without immediately killing the footropolis, though it would certainly be unpleasant. (And easily prevented with even the most basic of Shaping defenses, I should think.)
5. Yozi/Primordial manses can exist anywhere with living essence (so basically anywhere except the Underworld, which has dead essence, and Elsewhere, which has no ambient essence at all).
6. Celestial manses cannot be constructed within the world-body of a primordial/yozi. Even the most powerful gods are fundamentally lower-order beings; they cannot influence their creators' internal geomancy to that extent. (It is perhaps possible such a manse/demesne could be created with the consent and assistance of the primordial/yozi in question, but unlikely that any such being would consent to that- though the ruined shrine of a former Solar manse somewhere within Malfeas sounds like a seriously cool adventure location- the shameful, hated fragments of the temple the Empyreal Chaos' love and pride for the UCS.)
7. Hearthstone powers should always work, with the following exceptions: non-Vitriol elemental stones in Malfeas, and celestial-tier stones across the living/dead essence divide: Abyssal outside of Creation, Shadowlands, and the Underworld (plus Autocthonia for Autocthonian Abyssal manses, should any be constructed), and Celestial/Yozi/Primordial stones in the Underworld.
8. Essence recovery was mostly eyeballed.
EDIT: 9. Oh, and all the Autocthonian stuff assumes that if you let loose a couple of Twilight PCs inside him, they could figure out how to raise demesnes and manses. Presumably the Alchy Exalts are unaware or see no need for the possibility. YMMV.

Comments are appreciated.

[Indon]

In my universe, I rule perfect prophecy mechanics (Say, Autochthon constructs an Oracle) as perfect attacks on free will. And outside of Glories of the Most High, Samsara is definitely written up as if it is such a thing.

From there, perfect defenses (being any heavy use of Essence - possibly even Shaping effects specifically) trump those. Since Essence has an element of pure untamable chaos within it, it can never be wholly predicted, though it can be fairly accurately predicted as the amount of energy used to predict approaches infinity.

This leaves the possibility of a world in which Free Will is destroyed, but the use of Essence must be stopped entirely.

Hey question for the optimizing-types (meschulum, for example):

Is there any way to give an Enlightened Mortal high Essence (6+) without them becoming something other than an Enlightened Mortal?

Homebrew something.

For instance, it's implied that thaumaturgy can grant people various powers similar to the Exalted. Perhaps it can provide a bonus dot of Essence that exceeds the normal 3 using some method or another?

And of course, depending on how you look at it, the Exaltations are just tools that mortals use to raise their maximum Essence score, similar to (and occasionally literally) prosthetics.

Thaumaturgy fluff sometimes gets pretty heavy about the implications of mortal empowerment through thaumaturgy, and how ultimately the practice has never been as free as it could have been - I suspect it's most likely to be exploited in a Lunar-oriented game. Nation of thaumaturge-transcendents makes its' presence known in Creation, starts beating up DB's, that sort of thing.

[Lord Raziere]

How do you treat it if someone takes damage from a variety of sources? E.g. someone getting stabbed, slashed, shot, hit with a hammer, burnt and frozen a bit (and let's assume they're not weak to any of the above)?

then it simply means that they have taken damage in all the appropriate health bars. I know, kinda is unrealistic that someone can go through all that and still live but can die from concentrated hits of say, a sword, but I'm working on it.

that and a lot of shows and such have people take damage from a variety of sources like that and still keep walking, so there is at least precedent from other mediums.

[DrakeRaids]

Yeah, good luck with that.

On the other hand, 2.5 is coming out pretty soon, and then Lunar and then Sidereal errata (in that order). Scroll of the Monk errata is in the works, too.

You have a quote to back that up? Its not what I've heard.

[Mr.Bookworm]

...

Challenge unaccepted.

I know that that's what Holden or TDO said on the Exalted boards, but I find myself completely unable to find the quote. Help?

[Sanguine]

...

Challenge unaccepted.

I know that that's what Holden or TDO said on the Exalted boards, but I find myself completely unable to find the quote. Help?

Well I know Holden has done some work on the Lunar Errata already. Such as the Protean Keyword, which he has guaranteed will be changed to some degree from what he spoiled, and some miscellaneous stuff. I also know that he said that they wouldn't be putting out anything else until 2.5 was done because then they would just have to go back and redo it after 2.5 was in fact done. I don't in fact remember anything definitive about the order of Lunar and Sidereal Errata though. Also TDO is not on Errata Team Prime, just so you know.

[DrakeRaids]

Yeah. I heard that 2.5 was next, but nothing about lunar errata before siddie.

[Lochar]

Also TDO is not on Errata Team Prime, just so you know.

No, and I'm too lazy to go find the direct quote, but I know he was going back with the 2.5 changes and making tweaks to things that currently exist to bring them in line.

[Sanguine]

No, and I'm too lazy to go find the direct quote, but I know he was going back with the 2.5 changes and making tweaks to things that currently exist to bring them in line.

Yes, he is doing that. But that is a volunteer thing. Or at least that is how I understand it. He himself has said several times that he is not Errata Team Prime.

Edit: Quote/Link to back me up.

Some of the groundwork changes ETP is working on are simple adjustments to the core rules, which makes sense; system-level solutions to system-level problems. Unfortunately, this means that ETP needs to comb through every single Charm ever written to check for things that interact with the changed rules, and then adjust them as appropriate.

Fool that I am, I volunteered to help with this Sisyphean undertaking (despite not being ETP, just to clarify). I've gotten everything so far but the manuals for Lunars, Siddies, and Dragon-Bloods, and then all the IM stuff.

http://forums.white-wolf.com/default...59#post1008959

[jjpickar]

Ok, I've spent the better part of my finals week trying to absorb the Graceful Wicked Masques rules and I think, especially with the help of reading everything that meschlum wrote about the Raksha, that I've come close. But what I cannot comprehend, is how to reliably acquire gossamer. The book has some misleading references to it (pages 124-125 DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GETTING GOSSAMER) but, aside from just making the minions in your chancel to figure out the rules for it by incumbering them into tithing it, I'm stumped.

[meschlum]

Ways to get gossamer:

- Have a Sidereal friend with Quicksilver Hand of Dreams, buy dreams. Apply perfect dodge to thrown rule books.

- Have the Gossamer background. This gives you gossamer every story. In a game set in the Wyld, this amounts to gossamer (almost) whenever you want, and is silly. In Creation, it's some gossamer per season.

- Have Cup feeding Charms. Oneiromantic Conjuration gives you 1 gossamer each time you have access to a dreaming mortal (post-errata, it works 1/day at most). Demesne Farming Art gives you (Demesne) gossamer once per story. In the Wyld, Freeholds qualify as Demesnes, so the Gossamer background is sort of equivalent to economic control over a few Demesnes. In Creation, it's a few gossamer per season.

- Have the errata. Ravishing the Created Form and Soul Consuming Hunger now give you 1 gossamer per 10 'surplus' motes you gain by eating people. So a Noble munching on a mortal Extra spends 3 wp (two virtues + willpower eaten), and gains 8 gossamer (2 per virtue + 4 from willpower). You can also use the 'extra' motes to regain willpower, so it really boils down to 5 gossamer per Extra. This is limited to 1 use per scene, so it takes 3 scenes to do. Soul Consuming Hunger only works in the Wyld, and lets you munch all traits in one pass - but is limited to one use per day.

- Get Worker's Gift. as a Charm or an Adjuration, it gives you 2 gossamer each time you regain willpower for following your Motivation. It also keeps you from changing your Motivation easily, so be sure you have a convenient one first.

- Get Spectacular Insanity and Bedlam Masterworks, as Charms or Adjurations. These charms give you gossamer when you enter and leave Bedlam. Bedlam is bad, but this way you do get something out of it. All Consuming God Monster Stance can make you immune to the effects of Bedlam, so...

- Use These Dreams Are Clay. This creates temporary gossamer, which lasts long enough to be spent on whatever you want to use gossamer for. The things created this way are not temporary. Post-errata, it also works in Creation (but is expensive).

- Use Oath Gossamer and Eight Corner Ring Binding. These charms create gossamer for every story (season) or scene in which you and other Fair Folk behave in appropriate ways. They last for a century, so once they start running your gossamer output is going to grow quickly.

- Have Retinue. Each of your Commoner minions with the appropriate Charms (or Adjurations - get one and have all of them swear to it, if necessary) can also get gossamer for you. This speeds things up massively, and can lessen some of the side effects.

- Have a Chancel. This lets you access the Wyld while in Creation, and thus benefit from flexible time and Wyld based gossamer gathering techniques.


That's the main lines. Specific tricks enabling arbitrarily high (or infinite) gossamer are a matter of taste and character concept.

[Lord Raziere]

then it simply means that they have taken damage in all the appropriate health bars. I know, kinda is unrealistic that someone can go through all that and still live but can die from concentrated hits of say, a sword, but I'm working on it.

that and a lot of shows and such have people take damage from a variety of sources like that and still keep walking, so there is at least precedent from other mediums.

also, to be honest, the combat system is not a bunch of health bars and more of a system that measures the number of injuries you withstand before you die.
meaning instead of like high numbers of like 50 and dealing like 8 or 15 damage per attack, you instead have like 4 injury points on a normal injury bar and everyone deals 1 injury per successful attack, that and every time you are dealt an injury you are inflicted a debuff to your stats, what kind of debuff depends on the injury bar you damaged them in. so actually the person who is dealt multiple things like that would suffer multiple debuffs to their stats and wouldn't be able to fight as well as someone with full injury points, so there would be an effect.

furthermore, a few hours ago I've come up with the idea of Life Levels, meaning at Life level 1 only one injury bar is needed to be depleted to killed, while life level 2 means people need to deplete two injury bars and so on to kill you.
Thus you can set up so that bosses need five injury bars depleted to be killed, while minor enemies only one, and finally it doesn't matter if you deplete a strong, normal or weak injury bar; they all count as depleted so it encourages people to find the enemies weakness.

and lastly there is the beauty of the system: you can set it up so that injury bars can be used in any kind of conflict, not just physical combat. armies, minds, politicians, masterminds and such all have their own forms of combat and different injuries from armies getting their supply lines cut to a god getting from a loss of followers or a church being burned down. this injury system can be used to fight against anything in any way- as long as the method of fighting is reasonable and doable.
For with this injury system you can even have people immune to things and still have ways to bring them down, a god may be immune to physical combat or something, but he does have an injury bar for the status of his churches and followers, kill and destroy them and the god dies as well even if you can't engage the god directly.

I'm very proud of this idea, but....its still in progress, I think.

[hangedman1984]

For instance, it's implied that thaumaturgy can grant people various powers similar to the Exalted. Perhaps it can provide a bonus dot of Essence that exceeds the normal 3 using some method or another?

And of course, depending on how you look at it, the Exaltations are just tools that mortals use to raise their maximum Essence score, similar to (and occasionally literally) prosthetics.

Thaumaturgy fluff sometimes gets pretty heavy about the implications of mortal empowerment through thaumaturgy, and how ultimately the practice has never been as free as it could have been - I suspect it's most likely to be exploited in a Lunar-oriented game. Nation of thaumaturge-transcendents makes its' presence known in Creation, starts beating up DB's, that sort of thing.

away from books, but doesn't it say that thaumaturgy is just mimicking the least gods interactions with each other? in that case i'd theorize (and rule if i were st'ing the game) that somehow increasing your essence through thaumaturgy would make you become a god

[Turalisj]

Ok, infernals is confusing me a bit. An infernal can attune to tainted orichalcum normally and still get the benefits, right?

[Xefas]

Ok, infernals is confusing me a bit. An infernal can attune to tainted orichalcum normally and still get the benefits, right?

Yeah. Anything tainted with vitriol.

[Lix Lorn]

Which means Infernals get the best artifacts, cause they can always pick the best one.

Also, what's a Footropolis aspected manse/demesne?