General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

[Indon]

And doing it for SCIENCE! is perhaps understandable, but it still doesn't really explain why he made some clothing out of her. Did he make an armchair, too? Nah, not enough skin. Maybe some rope...

Exalted is a universe in which "The skin of an innocent child corrupted into darkness by a malevolent super-ghost" could explicitly be used as the main component in a powerful artifact.

And that's not a component you're going to come across every day, with one exception.

[Sanguine]

Exalted is a universe in which "The skin of an innocent child corrupted into darkness by a malevolent super-ghost" could explicitly be used as the main component in a powerful artifact.

And that's not a component you're going to come across every day, with one exception.

I think the problem isn't that it wasn't a perfectly rational thing to do. Just that the character in question should have had some moral objections to skinning a little girl.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Right. It is a coldly logical thing to do, and I can see any number of characters in Exalted who would have done it. My WTF-ery about it is the particular character who did it, who has Compassion 4 and comes across as a relatively good guy. I mean, the descriptions in the Scroll of Exalts are pretty heavily abridged for wordcount, so there could be a story there that I just don't know about. Have to be a hell of story, though.

[Xefas]

But, to him, he wasn't skinning a little girl. He was skinning a demon that was using its spooky mojo to try to trick him into thinking it was a little girl. The little girl is a facade. And if mutilating a demonic puppet could help him save real people in the future, then it's his heroic duty to do so. Any pangs of guilt or squeamishness he feels at carving up the demon are just its lingering essence trying to trick him into being a coward and not doing his best to serve his country.

EDIT: It's the equivalent of a Solar wearing a cloak made of Erymanthus hide. I doubt anyone is going to feel bad for those Blood Apes.

[Urpriest]

Speaking of behavior of canon Exalts, there's something I'm a little unclear on that probably stems from a misunderstanding of something in the setting:

Broken-Winged Crane is the book that teaches GSPs how to rebel against the Yozis and go all Devil-Tiger, right? So why does the iconic Twilight rip up a copy in a comic in the Core Book? Aren't they sort of on the same side?

[Qaera]

Speaking of behavior of canon Exalts, there's something I'm a little unclear on that probably stems from a misunderstanding of something in the setting:

Broken-Winged Crane is the book that teaches GSPs how to rebel against the Yozis and go all Devil-Tiger, right? So why does the iconic Twilight rip up a copy in a comic in the Core Book? Aren't they sort of on the same side?

I believe it holds the events of the future, as written by the Ebon Empress from the future and sent back in time, constantly shifting its passages as it gets closer to the true future.

[jindra34]

Speaking of behavior of canon Exalts, there's something I'm a little unclear on that probably stems from a misunderstanding of something in the setting:

Broken-Winged Crane is the book that teaches GSPs how to rebel against the Yozis and go all Devil-Tiger, right? So why does the iconic Twilight rip up a copy in a comic in the Core Book? Aren't they sort of on the same side?

There is the source book, and the in universe book. The source book does the first, while the in universe book makes major messes, corrupts exalts, and has yozi-ish prophecies. Wee bit of a difference.

[Guancyto]

It's important to distinguish between the Broken-Winged Crane book ingame, which is the backward-in-time-echoing Yozi-Necronomicon, and the Broken Winged Crane supplement for the Exalted system, which contains Heretical Charms and the Devil-Tiger tree.

The one usually costs your soul, the other costs $5.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Speaking of behavior of canon Exalts, there's something I'm a little unclear on that probably stems from a misunderstanding of something in the setting:

Broken-Winged Crane is the book that teaches GSPs how to rebel against the Yozis and go all Devil-Tiger, right? So why does the iconic Twilight rip up a copy in a comic in the Core Book? Aren't they sort of on the same side?

Different things. The Broken-Winged Crane was just used as the name for the splat because it's Infernal-related and a cool name.

The in-setting Broken-Winged Crane is a book of Yozi-related lore (dark prophecy, demon summoning, other fun stuff for kids), one of the most powerful arcane tomes in Creation, which also lets the Yozis influence Creation. It actually hasn't been written yet (I'm a little uncertain which bits of the RotSE are canon), and all current copies are slightly different reflections of a book that will be written in the future to herald the beginning of a new age.

[Urpriest]

There is the source book, and the in universe book. The source book does the first, while the in universe book makes major messes, corrupts exalts, and has yozi-ish prophecies. Wee bit of a difference.

Hmm...I suppose my D&D experience had me assuming that the books had similar properties, like the Book of Vile Darkness/Book of Exalted Deeds. Interesting.

[Sanguine]

Speaking of behavior of canon Exalts, there's something I'm a little unclear on that probably stems from a misunderstanding of something in the setting:

Broken-Winged Crane is the book that teaches GSPs how to rebel against the Yozis and go all Devil-Tiger, right? So why does the iconic Twilight rip up a copy in a comic in the Core Book? Aren't they sort of on the same side?

Couple things to note here. First. No one knows GSPs exist. Second that wasn't the actual Broken-Winged Crane but a copy, the true one has yet to be written. Third, that's not what the in-setting Broken-Wined Crane is. What it is is unclear as the content of the copies changes over time as they become more in line with the true text which no one has actually seen as you know it hasn't been written.

Also Green Sun Princes rebelling isn't necessarily a good thing. It can be. But just because a Prince rebels doesn't mean they are benevolent. It could just mean that they are no longer content with being Green Sun Princes and now want to be Green Sun Kings.

Edit: Gah Sidereals everywhere, even in my teacup!

[Yuki Akuma]

According to Return of the Scarlet Empress, Her Redness wrote the original Broken-Winged Crane - and promptly got sucked into Malfaes, which is why she went missing five years ago.

But that may not be canon.

[Brontes]

Just covering my bases by posting here. I'm having an issue with an Alchemical character I'm working on. I'm hoping to avoid homebrewing anything (because it would suck raw nutrient paste). My questions are:

1) Any complaints about the trap rules in Scroll of Kings
2) Any other trap rules in any other supplement I should know about?
3) Has anyone (official, homebrew, otherwise) made a Charm (preferably Alchemical) that creates traps or landmines or anything?

[ShadowFighter15]

My advice would be that if there's one or two BP out of place, don't worry about it. Your players don't have to make them themselves, so if you want to stick another Charm into a Combo, just do it.

Decided to swap-out Dipping Swallow Defence for Heavenly Guardian Defence since Kade didn't have the BP to just add it to the combo and just used up the last of Morning Breeze's and Naria's BP on a few more dots in abilities. The former got a second dot of Melee and his Awareness brought up from 1 to 3, while Naria got an extra dot in both Athletics and Awareness, bringing both to 3.

Figure I'll just forget about specialties since this is just for new players - save on confusion both for them and myself.

[Guancyto]

While we're asking questions...

Could an Infernal sorcerer use Cleansing Solar Flames? On the one hand, it looks, walks and quacks like a Holy effect. On the other hand, it doesn't say it's Holy and a lot of the Yozis are opposed to the Underworld.

Could an Infernal sorcerer initiated via the Dragon do it? The spell effects mention a lot of sunlight and illumination, but the effect of the spell is cleansing the shadowland rather than lighting up the place.

[Indon]

While we're asking questions...

Could an Infernal sorcerer use Cleansing Solar Flames? On the one hand, it looks, walks and quacks like a Holy effect. On the other hand, it doesn't say it's Holy and a lot of the Yozis are opposed to the Underworld.

Could an Infernal sorcerer initiated via the Dragon do it? The spell effects mention a lot of sunlight and illumination, but the effect of the spell is cleansing the shadowland rather than lighting up the place.

Yozis flavor sorcery effects as appropriate for them. A Malfean sorceror, for instance, would invoke Ligier as the cleansing agent, and it'd replace the sun's role in that spell. I'd say that there are a couple Yozis that would be... inappropriate for that spell, and honestly I'd say the ED's one of them, but maybe if the Infernal in question could think up a suitable ED-flavor for the cleansing of a shadowland (perhaps an ever-growing orgy consumes the area, revitalizing the area's life? I dunno) I'd allow it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Decided to swap-out Dipping Swallow Defence for Heavenly Guardian Defence since Kade didn't have the BP to just add it to the combo and just used up the last of Morning Breeze's and Naria's BP on a few more dots in abilities. The former got a second dot of Melee and his Awareness brought up from 1 to 3, while Naria got an extra dot in both Athletics and Awareness, bringing both to 3.

Figure I'll just forget about specialties since this is just for new players - save on confusion both for them and myself.

Dipping Swallow Defense is a prerequisite for HGD.

Doesn't really matter unless you're handing them the Charm trees, though.

While we're asking questions...

Could an Infernal sorcerer use Cleansing Solar Flames? On the one hand, it looks, walks and quacks like a Holy effect. On the other hand, it doesn't say it's Holy and a lot of the Yozis are opposed to the Underworld.

Could an Infernal sorcerer initiated via the Dragon do it? The spell effects mention a lot of sunlight and illumination, but the effect of the spell is cleansing the shadowland rather than lighting up the place.

It actually does specifically say it's a Holy effect.

[Tael]

Do you guys have any advice for speeding up combat? Specifically dealing with flurries. We're still pretty new, so I know that learning the rules more concretely will naturally speed up the process, but I'm looking for any tips that can help speed it up.

[Qaera]

Do you guys have any advice for speeding up combat? Specifically dealing with flurries. We're still pretty new, so I know that learning the rules more concretely will naturally speed up the process, but I'm looking for any tips that can help speed it up.

Use the same rolls for every attack in a flurry, and designate which ones go with penalties?

[Guancyto]

Yozis flavor sorcery effects as appropriate for them. A Malfean sorceror, for instance, would invoke Ligier as the cleansing agent, and it'd replace the sun's role in that spell. I'd say that there are a couple Yozis that would be... inappropriate for that spell, and honestly I'd say the ED's one of them, but maybe if the Infernal in question could think up a suitable ED-flavor for the cleansing of a shadowland (perhaps an ever-growing orgy consumes the area, revitalizing the area's life? I dunno) I'd allow it.

Hmm, so maybe the clouds become pitch black and a column of darkness suffuses the caster, while images of the shadow-creatures summoned by Erembour cleanse the land with their revels?

It actually does specifically say it's a Holy effect.

Just to make sure, where is that? I'm not seeing it as part of its text, but I don't see a mention of being Holy as part of Light of Solar Cleansing's description either despite it only blowing up Creatures of Darkness.

[Tavar]

Dipping Swallow Defense is a prerequisite for HGD.

Doesn't really matter unless you're handing them the Charm trees, though.

Even then, it doesn't matter, because he's talking about fitting it into a combo, not into the character.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Just to make sure, where is that? I'm not seeing it as part of its text, but I don't see a mention of being Holy as part of Light of Solar Cleansing's description either despite it only blowing up Creatures of Darkness.

My reading comprehension skills have forsaken me. I somehow managed to read that as Spirit-Uplifting Mercy Halo.

Even then, it doesn't matter, because he's talking about fitting it into a combo, not into the character.

If you just heard a thump, that was my head being introduced to a desk.

[Indon]

Hmm, so maybe the clouds become pitch black and a column of darkness suffuses the caster, while images of the shadow-creatures summoned by Erembour cleanse the land with their revels?

Perhaps. It'd be interesting to see that the ED's approach to driving off the underworld is to party down. Do what you want 'cause a Yozi is free, etc.

[Tael]

Use the same rolls for every attack in a flurry, and designate which ones go with penalties?

Hmm, might one implement this 1-roll flurry? Roll once and then reduce successes depending on how far down you are in the flurry?
(e.g.)

Flurry : Penalty
2 actions: -1, -1
3 actions: -1, -2, -2
4 actions: -2, -2, -3, -3
5 actions: -2, -3, -3, -4, -4

etc.

Or should the odd numbers be rounded up?
(e.g) 2 actions: -1, -2 // 3 actions: -2, -2, -3

[ShadowFighter15]

If you just heard a thump, that was my head being introduced to a desk.

I feel your pain, mate. Though the head-shaped dint in my desk came from reading a bad-jokes thread on another forum. I think the mild concussion hurts less than the stuff I found in there.

Still not as painful as bash.org, though.

On another matter - anyone else think that, after he's done working on the ninth season of Red vs Blue - Monty Oum should try and animate the battle between Chejop Kejak and the Scarlet Empress? The one that's mentioned in RotSE near the end of the bit about the Lotus Massacre. Not sure how some of the Sidereal charms could be represented though, maybe a live-action shot of a pattern spider leaping onto Monty's arm and forcing him to change the animation to match the Charm's use?

Wouldn't be the first time Sidereal Charms have broken the Fourth Wall - look at that fight with Nemen-Yi in Keychain of Creation.

EDIT: Actually, that pattern spider idea might be a bit too comical for the scene.

[Mr.Bookworm]

On another matter - anyone else think that, after he's done working on the ninth season of Red vs Blue - Monty Oum should try and animate the battle between Chejop Kejak and the Scarlet Empress? The one that's mentioned in RotSE near the end of the bit about the Lotus Massacre. Not sure how some of the Sidereal charms could be represented though, maybe a live-action shot of a pattern spider leaping onto Monty's arm and forcing him to change the animation to match the Charm's use?

Could be interesting. Be very, very hard to properly do justice to high Essence combat, though. Okay, high Essence combat as it should be, not paranoia Combo-spam fest.

Though in canon, it really should be something like mindscrewed Anys Syn+Akuma guards+Her Redness. Fairly certain that 1v1, a prepared Chejop could murder the Empress, Wedding Band or not.

Really don't need to worry about the Siddie Charm thing, either. Kejak would most likely be using his Martial Arts to fight, plus Duck Fate and Impeding the Flow.

[ShadowFighter15]

Could be interesting. Be very, very hard to properly do justice to high Essence combat, though. Okay, high Essence combat as it should be, not paranoia Combo-spam fest.

Though in canon, it really should be something like mindscrewed Anys Syn+Akuma guards+Her Redness. Fairly certain that 1v1, a prepared Chejop could murder the Empress, Wedding Band or not.

Really don't need to worry about the Siddie Charm thing, either. Kejak would most likely be using his Martial Arts to fight, plus Duck Fate and Impeding the Flow.

The book actually says that Kejak goes in with a hand-picked team of Sidereals to back him up and that the Empress has demons and Infernal bodyguards (probably a mix of akuma and GSP, the book just says Infernals) so it wouldn't be one-on-one.

EDIT: But I agree with you about it being hard to do proper High Essence combat justice. Easiest thing would be to take the Charms, look at their fluff and work out how they'd be used in a fight, regardless of actual gameplay mechanics (ie. for cinematic purposes - everyone has unlimited motes and willpower unless it's dramatic for them to run out).

[Tavar]

Hmm, might one implement this 1-roll flurry? Roll once and then reduce successes depending on how far down you are in the flurry?
(e.g.)

Flurry : Penalty
2 actions: -1, -1
3 actions: -1, -2, -2
4 actions: -2, -2, -3, -3
5 actions: -2, -3, -3, -4, -4

etc.

Or should the odd numbers be rounded up?
(e.g) 2 actions: -1, -2 // 3 actions: -2, -2, -3

More like the following, I think.
You're inital pool is 14, and you're doing a 3 attack Flurry. So, in the end, you roll10 dice, in order they are 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3, 8, 1.
First attack pool is 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3, 8, 1
Second is 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3, 8
Third is 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3.

[Tael]

More like the following, I think.
You're inital pool is 14, and you're doing a 3 attack Flurry. So, in the end, you roll10 dice, in order they are 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3, 8, 1.
First attack pool is 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3, 8, 1
Second is 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3, 8
Third is 1, 5, 7, 4, 3, 10, 4, 3.

Ahh, I see. This is much better anyway, as my method lead to either hitting like 4 times or not at all.

[knightMARE]

Where is the cost for buying combo's with BP listed?