General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

[Qaera]

I am torn on this subject, because I agree with you, but every Abyssal charm with Mirror is also a Solar charm, and I care far more about Solar mechanics than I do abyssals.

Solars already get too much love though.

[The_Snark]

Yeah, it adds... 250 words, at most? That's a paragraph of fluff they can sneeze out in their sleep.

It's not to add to the wordcount; quite the opposite. There've been two or three supplements (Debris of the Fallen Races, Splinters of the Wyld, and possibly the Broken-Winged Crane?) that consisted largely of material that had been cut from previous books. The Mirror keyword saves space that is then used for other Charms or additional fluff.

I do agree that they're usually not all that interesting, though; Abyssals could really use some more distinctive mechanics.

[Tavar]

I'm saying I think Abyssals should have unique charms, not copypasta'd Solar charms with a death theme.

But at their base, that's what they are. This is supported numerous times in canon. Higher essence effects diverge from this more, as do effects that deal with the underworld. But they are dark mirrors of the solars, hence the fact that they share many charms.

[Lord Raziere]

I have no opinion of the Abyssal thing yet since I do not have the splat- though I plan to get it soon. though I don't like Solars and I'm thinking I would like Abyssals cause they are like Solars but without their shiny idealistic hero/ mad knight templar/paragon of perfection fluff cause, I just don't like that kind of fluff.......cause really I would like the charms, just not the "SHINY PERFECTION" fluff to go with it.

[Qaera]

But at their base, that's what they are. This is supported numerous times in canon. Higher essence effects diverge from this more, as do effects that deal with the underworld. But they are dark mirrors of the solars, hence the fact that they share many charms.

That's why I don't like them...

[Kylarra]

I don't really mind the dark mirror trope personally, but I tend to think that we don't need both infernals and abyssals as evil solaroids, so I toy with eliminating one or the other occasionally.

[Tavar]

So, your issue isn't with the mirror keyword, it's with the concept of abyssals itself?

I don't really mind the dark mirror trope personally, but I tend to think that we don't need both infernals and abyssals as evil solaroids, so I toy with eliminating one or the other occasionally.

I'd say that Infernals aren't evil solaroid so much as different ones.

[a_humble_lich]

I was going to post agreeing that Solars already get too much love and have far more charms than anyone else.

Then I actually looked at the page counts and the number of charms each exalt gets is fairly similar. Solars have 57 pages of charms (61 with martial arts). Lunars have 64 pages (counting knacks and MA, but not chimera charms), Sidereals have 57, Dragon Bloods have 57 too (74 counting MA), and Abyssal have 60 (68 with MA). If you add mirror charms that will increase the Solar charm. However, most Abyssal charms are not mirror, so not by that much.

I'm surprised, I thought Solars had much more, and Lunars and Sidereals got shafted.

Edit:

I don't really mind the dark mirror trope personally, but I tend to think that we don't need both infernals and abyssals as evil solaroids, so I toy with eliminating one or the other occasionally.

I agree with this. One of the main reasons I don't like Infernals as much is that their role is too similar to Abyssals. (And that I don't own the Infernals book )

[Tavar]

I'm surprised, I thought Solars had much more, and Lunars and Sidereals got shafted.

Well, they did. Just not with quantity, but with quality.

[Kylarra]

I'd say that Infernals aren't evil solaroid so much as different ones.

If I change "evil" to "corrupted" will that work for you?

[a_humble_lich]

Well, they did. Just not with quantity, but with quality.

But I thought it was both quality and quantity

[Xefas]

If I change "evil" to "corrupted" will that work for you?

I prefer "twisted". Abyssals are the evil Infernaloids. Solars are the twisted ones.

[Kylarra]

I prefer "twisted". Abyssals are the evil Infernaloids. Solars are the twisted ones.

-patpat-
I'm sure you do.

[Qaera]

So, your issue isn't with the mirror keyword, it's with the concept of abyssals itself?



I'd say that Infernals aren't evil solaroid so much as different ones.

My issue is with the concept yes, but the Mirror keyword embodies that concept, at least to me.

[Xefas]

-patpat-
I'm sure you do.

I don't know what this means. But I never turn down a patting.

My issue is with the concept yes, but the Mirror keyword embodies that concept, at least to me.

I have trouble agreeing with this only because it would imply that someone working on Exalted was capable of outlining a basic mechanic that does a good job representing the concept they were aiming for.

---

Also, we need a new thread title soon. I vote once more for "General Exalted Discussion V: Mountains Were Made To Be Thrown".

[Lord Raziere]

to quote the Infernals book "if Solars and Abyssals are two sides of the same coin, then Infernals are paper money" Infernals are just plain out-of-left-fieldyness. They just aren't supposed to fit. They are not so much as evil as they are just plain bizarre. Trying to compare Abyssals to Solars is like trying to compare apples to rotten apples. Trying to compare Abyssals or Solars to Infernals is not like comparing an apple to an orange- other exalts are oranges- is like comparing an apple to a wrench, other Exalts may still be fruit, but Infernals don't even fit in with other Exalts in that their charms don't even follow the skills or attribute trees.

I repeat, Solars are apples, Abyssal are rotten apples, Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded are oranges, Lunars and Alchemical are vegetables and Infernals are wrenches. They don't fit, they aren't mirrors.

speaking of mirrors, how far does the Abyssal mirror reflect charmwise? all the charms? 90% of them? 80%?

[DragonSinged]

Last time I tried to suggest a title before the last page, I got shot down.

That said, I think we should go with "General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants".

[Xefas]

That said, I think we should go with "General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants".

I also like this one. Really, I don't so much care about #V, so much as #VI. We need "General Exalted Discussion VI: Ascendancy Mantle of The Playground".

I repeat, Solars are apples, Abyssal are rotten apples, Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded are oranges, Lunars and Alchemical are vegetables and Infernals are wrenches. They don't fit, they aren't mirrors.

I think this is a pretty good analogy, in that wrenches are emphatically more awesome than all fruits and vegetables.

[tonberrian]

Last time I tried to suggest a title before the last page, I got shot down.

That said, I think we should go with "General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants".

Now someone needs to make the aspiring Twilight who actually makes an army out of automaton trousers.

[Reynard]

GED V: We're Like The Maidens, But With More Bitchiness.

[Tavar]

Last time I tried to suggest a title before the last page, I got shot down.

That said, I think we should go with "General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants".

I like this. Well, I don't like it, but it is so true.

[Guancyto]

GED V: We're Like The Maidens, But With More Bitchiness.

GED V: This Title was Seen in Samsara

[Xefas]

Now someone needs to make the aspiring Twilight who actually makes an army out of automaton trousers.

Wasn't this the plot of the first episode of Jimmy Neutron?

[Qaera]

Don't we have 4 pages until that?

[Tavar]

Yeah, but it always pays to be prepared.

[Lochar]

GED V: Reaching Mortal Limits

[Mr.Bookworm]

GED V: Reaching Mortal Limits

Mortals cap at 3.

And even then, they aren't technically mortals.

GED V: White Wolf OCD Prana

[Reynard]

GED V: We'll have to wait a while for the next one?

[Yuki Akuma]

Mortals cap at 3.

And even then, they aren't technically mortals.

GED V: White Wolf OCD Prana

He means Attributes. And Abilities.

5 is the absolute strongest a mortal can ever be.

[Mr.Bookworm]

He means Attributes. And Abilities.

5 is the absolute strongest a mortal can ever be.

Ah. True.

...further evidence for the OCD Prana.

(Like, really, it was genuinely shocking when Changeling came out and it had a whole extra Seeming.)