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2011-04-27, 01:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Autochthon is a rebel. The Principle of Hierarchy is a conformist.
Also, Return of the Scarlet Empress is emphatically not canon. It is far worse when a canon book invalidates your ideas about the setting.I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-04-27, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- The Elemental Pole of Oil
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2011-04-27, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-04-27, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- The Elemental Pole of Oil
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2011-04-27, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Usaki City, Syona
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
Homebrew Signature | NEW Homebrew Collection
Thanks to all my avatar artists, especially to Paisley for my avatar of Vivian, cowardly cryophoenix.
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2011-04-27, 06:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2011-04-27, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Originally Posted by The-Mage-King;
Avatar by A-Rainy-Knight
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2011-04-27, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
On that note, I've been thinking about just what ten Charms my stupid-powerful Dawn Caste martial artist would take in the event that the Sun kicks the bucket as per RotSE.
SpoilerChances are that I'd want to pick up Should the Sun Not Rise, so that I can still do Holy stuff. Then I'd want to pick up a Holy Charm of some sort, so I can do Holy stuff in the first place. Enemy-Castigating Solar Judgment seems like a good candidate, as I qualify for it already, and it can be used with almost anything. I'd consider picking up Ink Monkey Charms (particularly Titan-Straightening Method), but I have my doubts as to whether my ST would allow them or not. It'd be nice if I could pick up Spirit-Cutting Attack, but as it is, I've only got one dot in Occult.
My Current CharmsSpoilerMartial Arts Charms:
First Martial Arts Excellency
Infinite Martial Arts Mastery
Fists of Iron Technique
Sledgehammer Fist Punch
Dragon Coil Technique
Solar Hero Form
Fist of the Unconquered Sun (homebrewed Solar Mirror of One Hand Fury)
Inevitable Victory Meditation (wishing I could dump this one now, though)
Heaven Thunder Hammer
Knockout Blow
Hammer-on-Iron Technique
Horizon-Hurling Tactic
Ox-Stunning Blow
Resistance Charms:
Durability of Oak Meditation
Heroes Never Die
Iron Skin Concentration
Iron Kettle Body
Armored In Righteousness Stance
Spirit Strengthens the Skin
Adamant Skin Technique
Ox-Body Technique
Body-Mending Meditation
Essence-Gathering Temper
Willpower-Enhancing Spirit
Presence Charms:
Second Presence Excellency
Hypnotic-Tongue Technique
You Can Be More
Athletics Charms:
Second Athletics Excellency
Graceful Crane Stance
Thunderbolt Attack Prana
Integrity Charms:
Second Integrity Excellency
Integrity-Protecting Prana
Righteous Lion Defense
Temptation-Resisting Stance
Elusive Dream Defense
Transcendent Hero's Meditation
Final Ray of Light
Truth Shines Through
Favored Abilities are Resistance, Integrity, Awareness, Dodge, and Athletics.
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2011-04-27, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Yes I realize, but in an already tedious PbP environment using an already tedious combat system, I find it simpler to just remove the stunt bonuses, rather than force them to work around Tavar's schedule to judge each and every post before the next player can make a response.
BEEP.
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2011-04-27, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Removing a basic game mechanic makes the entire Test of Spite thing pointless, though. The game is meant to be built around the assumption that people can get extra dice and motes of essence routinely. Willpower takes a bit more effort but should still pop up once or twice in a given scene.
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2011-04-27, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Well, in my opinion, optimized exalted [PVP] combat is pointless, so I'm not really taken with that argument.
Last edited by Kylarra; 2011-04-27 at 08:32 AM.
BEEP.
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2011-04-27, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Yeah, someone else just pointed out that there are quite a few charms that use stunts. I'll have to think of the best way to implement them in a tournament.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2011-04-27, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Then why are you offering suggestions for something you consider pointless?
How about - and this is going to sound crazy - actually using the guidelines presented in the book? Shocking, I know.
So any action more descriptive than "I use Essence Arrow Attack on Stoat of the Mire" is a 1-die stunt, any action that's both descriptive and uses the environment presented in some way is a 2-die stunt, and something that is both descriptive, uses the environment, and is also totally awesome is a 3-die stunt?
You can leave 1-die and 2-die stunts up to the players.
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2011-04-27, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
It's done. Don't read this after a heavy meal.
Originally Posted by The-Mage-King;
Avatar by A-Rainy-Knight
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2011-04-27, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2011-04-27, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Okay, how about making it objective?
Say, if you describe your attack with four sentences, it's one die. Describe it with five while taking into account the arena presented, it's two dice.
Or something. I'm sure you can think of better requirements.
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2011-04-27, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
On another note, considering running Infernals for a few specific people. Any suggestions for houserules/homebrew/other things? I'm so glad I have BWC now...
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2011-04-27, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I'm not sure infinite combos are as common as you think they are. Having a 2-die stunt on every rolled action usually means 4 motes or 1 willpower once when you're attacked, barring stunt modification magic like (Yozi) Mythos Exultant (you should probably ban actions that happen only to get stunts and therefore rewards). At that rate, if you can force a combo and at least 3 motes expended on the other guy every time you attack him, eventually his motes are going to be drained away. There is one infinite combo I am aware of that abuses Selfishness is Power, Who Strikes the Wind?'s tick long version, and Swillin's Mythos Exultant, though.
Other, more pressing issues are going to be the Gem of Adamant Skin plus that one charm in the whip based MA in Scroll of the Monk that prevents bashing damage from rolling over into lethal, all the SMA's except the one in Glories: Maidens, and Lightspeed Body Dynamics.
That said, I wouldn't want to try this any time soon, since we're due a huge errata to the basic system soon, which is claimed to change the entire dynamic of the paranoia suite.The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2011-04-27, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
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2011-04-27, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Too close to the sun
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
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2011-04-27, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Swilly can force order onto the world. But she also creates it.
They both have themes of tech, and physics, and science and all that stuff, but the main difference is that Swilly has this big theme of rigid hierarchy and conformism that Auto doesn't have, whereas Auto has a big theme of tools, improvisation, and spontaneous creativity that Swilly does not.
You can also see big Yozi similarities between Malfeas and Isidoros. They're both giant, heavily solipsistic entities with themes of crazy strength, asserting dominance, overkill, and not listening to people. But Malfeas is a King. Isidoros is a pig.
Primordials can share themes, certainly, and I think that if we knew more about the unnamed among the 23, we'd see even more such similarities.
EDIT: So, Auto is the mad scientist. Swilly is the shy but brilliant lab assistant who goes along with her boss's crazy schemes and runs damage control for him when his psychotic genius overflows.Last edited by Xefas; 2011-04-27 at 11:31 AM.
5e D&D Mythos Classes
General Rules
Swordbearer Class
Cynosure Class
Mechanikos Class
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Discussion Thread
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2011-04-27, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Department of Smiting
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Yes, but given that this is a contest, having to play it out draining one mote at a time would be a total pain. Playing it out in such a way that using a combo actually drains your willpower, such that you can't get it back just by writing a few more sentences, will lead to much faster and interesting combats than two players writing variations on "Paranoia combo, whatever you spent your action on didn't work, I have a net loss of three motes, here is a description of my stunt" over and over.
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2011-04-27, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Draper, Utah
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
A Book of Words: An Expanded Truenamer Fix
Masters of the Industrial Elements: An Exalted Supplement
Arena Trophy Case:
Spoiler
Avatar by Kymme
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2011-04-27, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Since the Test of Spite is about a laboratory environment style game, I don't think you should run stunts descriptively. Instead, give everyone a "Stunt Budget" of a certain number of 1, 2, and 3-dot stunts they may invoke nondescriptively at will. Give a bunch of 1's, a few 2's, and one or two 3's. This simulates stunt usage without requiring any adjudication at all.
Yes, it's boring, and a horrible hack on the Exalted system. But the Test of Spite is not about immersive storytelling, it's about mechanical optimization and strategic/tactical options. So I think that making stunt usage into another strategic/tactical option would best reflect that.
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2011-04-27, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-04-27, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
And therein lies the problem. Which is also why I asked for assistance.
I do think stunts should be part of the challenge, but I'm not really sure how to work them in, and be consistent at the same time.
Might end up going with the stunt budget idea.Last edited by Tavar; 2011-04-27 at 12:35 PM.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2011-04-27, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I think so, yes. Autocthon is indeed a creature of order, but he's also a creature of...rational improvement, invention out of intelligent planning, creation guided by experimentation, etc.? As opposed to creation straight out of dreams, ideas, passions, or pure chaos; Autobot never created anything without drawing up a plan for it first. But he did lots of experiments, sometimes unintentional ones, often with unexpected results (see also: invention of soulsteel), and he was sufficiently fascinated by the outcomes of these experiments to alter future creations accordingly.
SWLiHN, to borrow some DnD terminology for a moment here, is a paragon of pure Lawful Neutral. If anyone's familiar with the concept of psionic godminds (from Dreamscarred Press' excellent psionic suplpements for 3.5e DnD), were the guiding sentience of the Plane of Mechanus to ascend to being a godmind, I think it would look very like She. I'm oversimplifying, of course, but she's that orderly.
She also reminds me of the Auditors, from Discworld.
Take, for example, the problem of maintaining the Loom of Fate. Autocthon designed/invented/created artificial, self-reproducing gods, the Pattern Spiders, who are almost (if not literally) infinitely complex machines, to manage and contain the chaos at a level low enough to keep Creation from exploding. SWLiHN would have preferred a purely mechanical automaton that wove the strands of Fate into perfect geometric or fractal patterns, and then raged when some Essence user spoiled the symmetry.
Autocthon's idea of art is to create something that's self-maintaining within a stable, generally accurate range, because it was cleverly and logically designed. SWLiHN's idea of art is to create a truly perfect representation of a Sierpinski triangle, or something similar.
At least, that's how I see them. I'm not sure it's quite canon, and YMMV even if it is, but it works.
(By the way, I see SWLiHN's major contribution to the basic fabric of Creation having been fundamental mathematical values: the values of e and pi (which she probably knows exactly), the concept of i (which is probably involved in creating magitech that accesses Elsewhere), the equality of distance in different dimensions (so a meter north is the same distance as a meter west), etc. Autocthon's was the foundation of the experimental principle- the idea that if the starting conditions are the same, the outcome will be the same, even if the experiments are performed at different times, or places, or observed with different instruments. Sort of a...specific subclause of general causality.)delete Teemo.
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2011-04-27, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
The Great Maker demands a good measure of conformity, comrade, but you are right; She HATES to improvise, while Auto is all for the unexpected, cheeky ideas.
Primordials can share themes, certainly, and I think that if we knew more about the unnamed among the 23, we'd see even more such similarities.
So, Auto is the mad scientist. Swilly is the shy but brilliant lab assistant who goes along with her boss's crazy schemes and runs damage control for him when his psychotic genius overflows.
Edit @Psyborg: Also good! Though, my take on it is that She would have been the one to come up with empiricism in general. Autocthon came up with ways to use scientific observations, but was more concerned with ways to pass knowledge on to others - his favorite inventions were technology and dogma. Her favorite inventions would probably be the laws of gravity and thermodynamics.
She was probably pretty ticked when her little brother started pointing out the loopholes in her rules and exploiting them.Last edited by Dr.Gunsforhands; 2011-04-27 at 03:10 PM.
Avatar by the Ninja Chocobo.
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2011-04-27, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I love it. Yeah, definitely...*grin* And good for him, too.
I also wonder if Autocthon's affection for mortals was inspired by the fact that they, too, are inventors and experimentors. Like, I can see the first time a mortal performed a deliberate experiment and redesigned something based on it being the moment when Autobot started viewing them as something more than just another ongoing experiment.
(Now, granted, that doesn't mean that he ever even approached actually comprehending mortals and mortality on their own level, but there's also no doubt that he knew they were something special, even if he was way off on what.)delete Teemo.
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2011-04-27, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Hey, just because I consider it pointless doesn't mean I can't be vaguely curious about the outcome and other people's opinions. If we assume that both players are getting their choice of 4m/1wp twice per action (once on the attack and once for defense), the game will prolong pretty much indefinitely.
I do find the stunt budget to be a decent enough compromise though, even though it's essentially just storing more healthpacks.BEEP.