Mini/Meaningless Rant: Girls Rule the World!

[INoKnowNames]

Feel free to find the second dotted line. I'm not very good at this subject, and so, rather than spit it out, I've got a little rant to go on first. Ultimately meaningless, but helps me to clear out my thoughts.

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I've had some people in real life talk about how sexist the world is against girls. Heck, earlier I posted a thread in which I voiced my complaints against the idea that one isn't allowed to defend themselves against someone who would fight or threaten them, just because the attacker is female. There's still quite a bit of stigma about the sexes.

And there most likely always will be. Because the planet revolves around it. Except for the percent of man that is A-Sexual or Gay, Men are hard wired to worship Women. We physically are built that way. And our lives are conditioned that way, too.

Every single thing we do can be tied to a desire toward women. Guys compete to gain confidence, to seem dominant amoung other guys, or to prove themselves as being good at something, all to seem impressive to girls. Guys work on their physical appearance in order to attract the female attention. We get good jobs (half the time by going into debt with schooling) for the money to court girls or to provide for families. It's -ALL- about the fairer gender. Even wanting to be in possisions of power is about the ability to influence people, especially the other gender.

Anyone else hear that quote "Guys are the head of the house hold, while Girls are the neck, turning the head where they want it to be?" So true...

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So yeah, the above was pretty much a huge waste of time, as far as I'm concerned. I've only really got one thing I can think about...

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A few days ago, I came back into work, only to be physically distracted by the new girl who had just started the day before. And I'm -COMPLETELY- out of her league, appearance wise.

To make matter worse, my boss interrupted me when I was talking to her (having just worked up the courage to try to ask her for her number) and embarrassed the **** out of me. And told the rest of the crew about it, further pouring salt into the wound.

... but I -did- get her number... and we've been talking a bit ....

[SiuiS]

I have to disagree

This competing is often because A) men enjoy being powerful (so do women, actually, but we are excluding them for now yes?), and B) because it feels like six billion people are all telling you to.

Striving is human. Not male or female, but human. Striving like a peacock, strutting for color and attention, that's cultural.

The problem with sex being a driving force behind all humanity is; not all humanity cares. Not on a biological level, not on a social level. And those people who show that are the MOST important, not tw least. Asexual people aren't aberrant statistics, they are windows. Because they are just as human as the rest of us, function for much the same reasons.

In the same way that everyone in an area believing the same thing creates superstitions and such, everyone believing that sex is a driving force makes it seem true but that's a heuristic. Sex being omnipotent is as much superstition as anything else. And like all superstition it can be important, it can be waiting up, bring meaning to so much. But it's not Truth.

[Astrella]

Uh, you do know the reverse is true as well, right? (and you're generalizing pretty awfully. :/ )

Edit: As in societal pressure, individual desire and all that. (There's tons of pressure on people of any gender to act in certain ways.)

[The Succubus]

Didn't we cover this in the RW:A thread not too long ago and narrowly avoided a lock?

My insight into it is this - having a penis doesn't automatically make you into some form of macho, power-hungry, ultra-competitive person, nor does having a vagina make you a caring, motherly person that knows how the world should be run. There's another part of the body that does that and bother sexes have it.

[Chen]

Firstly, with no justification for any of those points, I can easily apply them to women as well.

Secondly I disagree with most of your points. I got a good job that I enjoy so that I can live comfortably and have fun in my time off. It had nothing to do with trying to find/impress a girl (found the girl when I was unemployed in fact :P). When I compete with my friends its competition for the sake of competition. I do want to show that I'm "better" than them but not to anyone in particular except the people that are competing. Sure all the things you can mention CAN be used to attract the opposite sex, but that's hardly the only reason for them.

[SiuiS]

Uh, you do know the reverse is true as well, right?

That women do stuffs to catch the eyes of men?
Perhaps. Would you say it's as much considered the driving force behind all their actions and their every move?

I can't seem to pin it down. There's so much background info that lookin at any one point obscures the rest in my head. I honestly can't answer my own question >_<

[Lyesmith]

I am dissapointed with everyone in this thread for not posting this yet.

[Rallicus]

Such a generalizing and misinformed starting post that I've become wary to even post.

But I will.

No, not everything a guy does is to attract womens' attention. I do what I do to feel comfortable and good, not to catch the eye of some girl. I work out not to attract girls, but to be able to look in the mirror without seeing a skeleton peering back at me and to feel healthy.

Also, what's this "out of my league" nonsense? There's no leagues, only if you make them.

[Asta Kask]

Every single thing we do can be tied to a desire toward women.

Speak for yourself.

[The Succubus]

"Every single thing we do can be tied to a desire toward women."

Everything single thing I do can be tied to my hidden desire to enslave the human race and create the world's biggest multisex harem....

....doesn't necessarily mean it should be or would be a correct interpretation of those actions.

....

I really wouldn't read too much into it - sounds like you've had a rough and/or frustrating day. The OP can be construed as being part of Name's core beliefs and ideologies.....but it doesn't mean it should be.

[Strawberries]

My insight into it is this - having a penis doesn't automatically make you into some form of macho, power-hungry, ultra-competitive person, nor does having a vagina make you a caring, motherly person that knows how the world should be run. There's another part of the body that does that and bother sexes have it.

Thank you Succubus. I was going to post something like that, but you said it better than I could.

[Helanna]

Yeah, definitely sounds like you should be speaking for yourself. I'm not a guy, but I'm pretty sure none of the guys I know build their ENTIRE lives around picking up girls. Guys - and girls for that matter - work out because they like it, or because they want to be healthier. They compete because humans tend to like having power over others. Um, people go to school to get good jobs because people like having money. Sorry, that one just seems really, really weird to me - I don't know a single person going to college because a good job will help them get a girlfriend. And, of course, anything you said about guys can also apply to girls looking for a boyfriend.

Also, there's a difference between "Society expects you to do X because you are male" and "Society will NOT allow you to do Y because you are female." My major is about 98% male. I've heard some stories about girls who dropped out because they had to endure guys telling them that "This major isn't for girls, you're only in here to find a boyfriend", etc. It's not a widespread view, but it does exist even at my liberal college. So yes, absolutely our society is sexist against males in some ways, but it's also sexist against females in other ways. That's why it's important to try to correct these views instead of just shrugging and saying "Eh, there'll always be a bias against each sex."

Sooo, yeah, I am sorry if you feel that way, but I really don't know anyone else who does. Of course, I also identify as asexual, so I think you're all completely crazy.

[The Succubus]

<snip>

This is why asexual people are awesome. They're like a bucket of icy cold water for the brain when people get too heated up over sexual politics.

[INoKnowNames]

Yay, sleep! I've had some!

And now I look back, realise I actually posted that rant, and it wasn't just a stupid, meaningless conversation I had with a couple of friends when I was trying to tell them what happened to me at work, and now I'm scared that I look even more idiotic than I normally do, not to mention that a mod's gonna get mad at me... I'm just so... so -everything-, really, over what's going on.... excited, flustered, scared, happy...

I'm not sure how best to edit that op post now...

Such a generalizing and misinformed starting post that I've become wary to even post.

No, not everything a guy does is to attract womens' attention. I do what I do to feel comfortable and good, not to catch the eye of some girl.

Yeah, the amount of ignorance in the stupid part of the origonal post is probably because I'm too scared to say the important bits without needing to physically scrape the red from my face, so something else needs to be there to distract for a bit... at least I thought that was the case... apparently my distractions need to be choosen much better... I'm not very confident! I'm so nervous! >.<

I don't truly thing that's how the world works. I'm honestly too young to even be able to make an accusation about how the world works.

I'm not even how the conversation from my church group drifted in that dirrection. We were talking about a biblical verse, and somehow the roles of men and women in olden times came up, and then how things sorta feel in real life came up, and then I randomly got into it, and someone asked me what had been going on since something had been going on... This is so big to me because I've never even really dated before...

But I will.

Yay.

I work out not to attract girls, but to be able to look in the mirror without seeing a skeleton peering back at me and to feel healthy.

.... the skeleton line threw me completely.

Also, what's this "out of my league" nonsense? There's no leagues, only if you make them.

.... and this, I completely disagree with.

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I look like a fat Gorilla. On my best day, I'm barely a solid "4".

She walked in the work place, and there were 5 other guys whose heads also turned unanimously. In her work uniform, she is minimum a "7.5".

I am out of my freaking league! Which makes her saying yes to going out all the more an accomplishment! I have no idea what black voodoo magic I must have been channeling to make that happen!

I am dissapointed with everyone in this thread for not posting this yet.

Lol.

Everything single thing I do can be tied to my hidden desire to enslave the human race and create the world's biggest multisex harem....

....doesn't necessarily mean it should be or would be a correct interpretation of those actions.

........ I'm honestly not sure what to say.

I really wouldn't read too much into it - sounds like you've had a rough and/or frustrating day. The OP can be construed as being part of Name's core beliefs and ideologies.....but it doesn't mean it should be.

It honestly isn't. My corest idiology is mainly "Don't do anything unless you wouldn't mind it done to you." And the majority of my life and it's interests have revolved around self improvement, striving for a decent life, and trying to make a decent person out of myself. I have been looking into trying to date, though... and I took a leap of faith and went for it.... I -never- expected to arrive, though!

[Astrella]

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I look like a fat Gorilla. On my best day, I'm barely a solid "4".

She walked in the work place, and there were 5 other guys whose heads also turned unanimously. In her work uniform, she is minimum a "7.5".

I am out of my freaking league! Which makes her saying yes to going out all the more an accomplishment! I have no idea what black voodoo magic I must have been channeling to make that happen!

But attraction isn't universal; everyone finds different things attractive. And attraction goes way beyond looks.

[INoKnowNames]

But attraction isn't universal; everyone finds different things attractive. And attraction goes way beyond looks.

Completely and utterly true.

At the same time, though, looks do contribute at least a decent amount to the incredibly important first impression... which I had completely RUINED by my boss... ;.;

Apparently not badly enough, though... :)

I'm just very insecure in myself. I struggle with doubts that I'm not a complete enough person to consider for anything in life.

And I still look like a fat gorilla...

[HalfTangible]

If you can remove all gender from your sentence and make a different decision, it's bad and you should feel bad. If sex factors into any decision you make at all (aside from who you're having sex with), you're already sexist. It doesn't matter if it's relatively harmless, it's (probably) what society says and it's bad. Don't do it. No, not even then.

(CHANGING the gender depends on whether or not the sentence involved genitalia)

...Of course, society doesn't work that way "men shouldn't cry!" "girls shouldn't be macho!" "it's physically impossible for girls to abuse men!" "All guys are idiots!"

All patently untrue and yet every day we're told to believe it...

Humanity, how i loath thee... Let me count the ways...

I'm just very insecure in myself. I struggle with doubts that I'm not a complete enough person to consider for anything in life.

Doesn't everybody?

[Tyndmyr]

I've had some people in real life talk about how sexist the world is against girls. Heck, earlier I posted a thread in which I voiced my complaints against the idea that one isn't allowed to defend themselves against someone who would fight or threaten them, just because the attacker is female. There's still quite a bit of stigma about the sexes.

"the world" is a big place. There are definitely parts that are sexist against girls. There are parts that aren't, and where they are, the degree varies quite a bit. But, yknow, worrying about the whole world is kind of a lot to handle. I wouldn't stress about it. Just worry about the bits where you are.

And there most likely always will be. Because the planet revolves around it. Except for the percent of man that is A-Sexual or Gay, Men are hard wired to worship Women. We physically are built that way. And our lives are conditioned that way, too.

Worship? I think you're overdoing it here. You can have a desire women without building your life around them, in the same way that you can desire D&D without building your life around that. Balance is part of everything, and while sure, some people always take things too far...if a single desire is overtaking the rest of your life, it may be time to sit down and reconsider priorities.

Every single thing we do can be tied to a desire toward women. Guys compete to gain confidence, to seem dominant amoung other guys, or to prove themselves as being good at something, all to seem impressive to girls.

Not JUST to seem impressive to girls. You've never seen a guy bragging when no girls are present? Definitely happens. Men also care about confidence, bragging rights, being seen as good at things by their buds. It's part of life for both men and women.

Guys work on their physical appearance in order to attract the female attention.

Sure. Or to look tough. Or to stay healthy. Women do the same.

We get good jobs (half the time by going into debt with schooling) for the money to court girls or to provide for families. It's -ALL- about the fairer gender. Even wanting to be in possisions of power is about the ability to influence people, especially the other gender.

Hardly. I have learned many, many things for reasons other than women. Often, just because I was curious. Oh, sure, I wanted a good job and all that too, but poor folks find women and get married too. This is about success, status symbols, and having the freedom in terms of money and power to do what you want. Women CAN be a motivator, but they are very, very far from the only one.

Anyone else hear that quote "Guys are the head of the house hold, while Girls are the neck, turning the head where they want it to be?" So true...

Never heard it, but I've heard the attitude behind it. If you don't want this sort of relationship, don't seek it out. Some people have this attitude an are apparently happy with it. Kudos for them if they are. Me, I like a bit more equality, and seek out people who feel likewise.

To make matter worse, my boss interrupted me when I was talking to her (having just worked up the courage to try to ask her for her number) and embarrassed the **** out of me. And told the rest of the crew about it, further pouring salt into the wound.

... but I -did- get her number... and we've been talking a bit .... [/SPOILER]

Don't sweat embarrassing things much, IMO. Just be amused at the awkwardness, and realize that for everyone else, it's probably just amusing for them too. A bit of teasing and the odd moment of social awkwardness happens from time to time...it's how you respond that matters.

[DraPrime]

I would like to throw a wrench into the works here. Due to my chosen profession (priesthood) I am celibate. Granted, the vow is not yet made, but I am expected to live the life anyways. Yet I have the same desires towards women that any other straight 20 year old male does. I do not live celibate simply because I have to, but because I want to. Because I love to. Sure, my attraction to women makes things difficult sometimes, but I embrace my admittedly odd lifestyle. I have devoted a significant part of my life to specifically not pursuing women, in spite of an attraction for them. So I can't say I agree with you.

[Helanna]

This is why asexual people are awesome. They're like a bucket of icy cold water for the brain when people get too heated up over sexual politics.

Hehe. People always get so worked up about sex and dating, and I'm just like "Why does everyone seem to care about this so much?!"

Yay, sleep! I've had some!

And now I look back, realise I actually posted that rant, and it wasn't just a stupid, meaningless conversation I had with a couple of friends when I was trying to tell them what happened to me at work, and now I'm scared that I look even more idiotic than I normally do, not to mention that a mod's gonna get mad at me... I'm just so... so -everything-, really, over what's going on.... excited, flustered, scared, happy...

Eh, you're probably fine. I've posted plenty of stupid stuff late at night before. And I don't think you've broken any board rules, so you probably don't have to worry about mods.

[Tyndmyr]

Hehe. People always get so worked up about sex and dating, and I'm just like "Why does everyone seem to care about this so much?!"

Look, I'm a straight dude with a gf, and I can't figure why people care so much about other people's sex and dating, half the time. The most I can be bothered to care about is sort of a general feeling that whatever you're after is working out for you. The details? I could give a crap less if it's a group marriage between seventeen men and three women(or any other complicated scenario you can devise). Have fun.

[Kneenibble]

This is all I got

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[Mando Knight]

My major is about 98% male. I've heard some stories about girls who dropped out because they had to endure guys telling them that "This major isn't for girls, you're only in here to find a boyfriend", etc.

There's a saying amongst the girls at my engineering university, referring to their dating pool: "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."

[wadledo]

There's a saying amongst the girls at my engineering university, referring to their dating pool: "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."

Of course, Psychology, Teaching, and Library Sciences are all primarily female dominated fields, but sadly I can find women who would be willing to date me, which is a terrifying thing in and of itself.

[HalfTangible]

There's a saying amongst the girls at my engineering university, referring to their dating pool: "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."

.............

I gotta write that down.

[Serafina]

So, to sum that "rant" up in two sentences:
- All (heterosexual) men have only one agency
- Women have no agency at all
I'm not sure which part is more glaring, wrong and offensive.


And yes, your rant DID say the latter part. Because your rant ignores the agencies of women altogether. Even if we stay as simplistic as your rant and say "well all (hetero) women are only after men", your entire rant already collapses onto itself. Because we can then add "well women only do X, Y and Z to get a man", thus reaching "equality" between men and women.


Of course peoples (regardless of gender) agencies are far more complex than that, and while a lot of people DO have becoming part of a couple as one of several primary agencies, i pity anyone for whom it is the only one.

[ForzaFiori]

But attraction isn't universal; everyone finds different things attractive. And attraction goes way beyond looks.

This is true, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some fairly obvious divisions (commonly called "leagues") among people. As an example, let's look at three people that I went to HS with. (these are based on true to life people, but I won't name names, obviously.). I don't know exactly what has happened since then, so yea, theoretically they could have switched spots, but I highly doubt it.

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Guy 1: probably the best looking guy in school, or a close second. He's also an avid tennis player (#1 HS player in the state), brilliant (graduated 4th in our class with a 4.0), extremely religious (I won't get into it, but it's important in the south), and an all around nice guy. He's a girls version of a perfect 10.

Guy 2: decently looking and in shape, also athletic, though only on JV teams. As smart as Guy 1, and while able to be as nice, doesn't do it all the time. He's maybe a 6 or 7.

Guy 3: Large (fat, not muscle), had a face that looked like it had been on the wrong side of too many fists, barely able to stay in school long enough to drop out, and a complete *******. A 4 if he's lucky.

Each of these guys can attract girls. All of them had a GF at some point during HS. Guy 1's were pretty much ALWAYS hotter, nicer, and smarter than Guy 2's, and they were both head and hands above the girls Guy 3 got. I'm sorry, but it's obvious just by looking at society that there are people on the upper crust, people in the middle, and the dregs of the world, and that, in 99% of the cases, they date and marry within those divides. THAT is what a "league" is. It's not saying it's physically impossible to date them, just that it'll require a massive amount of luck, the girl liking something you happen to have, and no guys that are cooler than you being around.

[HalfTangible]

So, to sum that "rant" up in two sentences:
- All (heterosexual) men have only one agency
- Women have no agency at all
I'm not sure which part is more glaring, wrong and offensive.


And yes, your rant DID say the latter part. Because your rant ignores the agencies of women altogether. Even if we stay as simplistic as your rant and say "well all (hetero) women are only after men", your entire rant already collapses onto itself. Because we can then add "well women only do X, Y and Z to get a man", thus reaching "equality" between men and women.


Of course peoples (regardless of gender) agencies are far more complex than that, and while a lot of people DO have becoming part of a couple as one of several primary agencies, i pity anyone for whom it is the only one.

His observation is societal, not personal; of course people have many "agencies" as you put it (I'm not sure that's how the phrase is used, but whatever) The rant ignored women because the observation is societal pressures on men.

[Asta Kask]

So, to sum that "rant" up in two sentences:
- All (heterosexual) men have only one agency
- Women have no agency at all
I'm not sure which part is more glaring, wrong and offensive.

this. just this.

[Tyndmyr]

Each of these guys can attract girls. All of them had a GF at some point during HS. Guy 1's were pretty much ALWAYS hotter, nicer, and smarter than Guy 2's, and they were both head and hands above the girls Guy 3 got. I'm sorry, but it's obvious just by looking at society that there are people on the upper crust, people in the middle, and the dregs of the world, and that, in 99% of the cases, they date and marry within those divides. THAT is what a "league" is. It's not saying it's physically impossible to date them, just that it'll require a massive amount of luck, the girl liking something you happen to have, and no guys that are cooler than you being around.

Meh. I'm not gonna say that all people are equal, but a *lot* of what league you are in is up to you...I mean, basically everyone appreciates someone being fit and in shape, but the vast majority of us have a good degree of control over how fit and in shape we are.

Other things, such as interests, are not really a league thing at all.

I don't think it's really necessary to worry overmuch about someone being "out of your league" as such. If it's a real concern for you, you need to stop and think "why are they out of my league, and how can I improve myself to fix that?"

Relationships are as much about having something to offer to others as they are about finding what you want.