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    Default Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats, flaws, and traits)

    I'm making a few feats that focus on failing perfectly at doing something something fairly fundamental. I currently have one, and welcome both critiques on it and suggestions for others.

    Upside-Down
    TRAIT
    Requirements: You cannot take this trait if you have a racial fly (or similar) move speed with perfect maneuverability.
    You are affected by gravity in a way exactly opposite to most people. While most people fall down, and pretty much stay on the ground without effort, you fall toward ceilings. This is an Extraordinary effect. The effect will hold up to your moderate load in carried equipment. If you are carrying the absolute minimum amount of weight to count as a heavy load, you (and the equipment) are not affected by gravity in any way, though your own senses continue telling you that "down" is where most people have "up". You do not gain a fly speed, but you can be pushed around through the air as thought you had no weight. If you carry more than the minimum heavy load, you fall to the ground, and your weight is considered to be equal to what you are carrying minus your moderate load. Your sense of balance continues to tell you the reversed "up' and "down', however, so you incur a -4 to Dexterity, and an additional -2 to Reflex saves, if trying to act in what, to you, is an upside-down direction.
    People are born with this trait. For the first month after birth, they are under an effect identical to that of a Feather Fall spell.


    Occasionally Not
    FLAW
    Most people always are, but occasionally you are not.
    Immediately before your place in initiative, roll 1d3. On a 3, you cease to exist until your turn next comes up, at which point you reappear, and take actions as usual. You do not roll on the turn that you reappear. If you are in the middle of an action that takes more than one round to complete, treat it as though you stopped for that one round. If you have 10 or more HD, you are powerful enough that you may leave an afterimage of yourself when disappearing. Instead of rolling 1d3, roll 1d6. On a 5, you will cease to exist as above. On a 6, however, you leave behind a slightly translucent image of yourself, frozen in the exact position you were in when you disappeared. Treat this as a Silent Image spell with a caster level equal to your HD, and a duration of "until you reappear".
    NOTE: when out of combat, it is advised simply to say that the character with this feat seems to be flickering, vanishing for a few seconds then reappearing for a bit, instead of rolling every 6 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol, in response to suggestion by Jjeinn-tae
    Multi-Cultural
    TRAIT
    Whether it be a densely populated metropolis or just an open, free-thinking society, you were raised in an environment that exposed you to many languages at a very young age. You can understand all commonly spoken languages easily (as with the Comprehend Languages) spell, but when you try to speak, it comes out as a garbled mix of your known languages.

    Whenever you try to speak, roll d%. If the result is greater than 80, you are able to form a somewhat coherent message when you speak. Otherwise, you babble incoherently in a garbled mix of languages.

    A character who has Comprehend Languages can understand somebody with the Multi-Cultural trait, but will also hear that they are speaking a mix of languages when they speak.
    -----------------
    Questions? Comments? Suggestions for more?
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-05-08 at 08:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Just a critique maybe these should be flaws? So that the don't completely screw over a player that chooses them?
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Just a critique maybe these should be flaws? So that the don't completely screw over a player that chooses them?
    Well, a few questions about this:
    One: Why would a player choosing it not know what they are getting into?
    Two: What about this is worse than normal gravity? It may not be better in some situations, but it's not exactly bad. On the one hand, you could get past many traps and sneak into places unnoticed, on the other, it's hard to hit enemies with melee. That melee bit is a benefit for you of course, because they cant hit you either. It definitely isn't bad in enough more situations than it's good in to be worth a free feat.

    Rethinking it though, I think I'll get rid of the Wisdom bit, so they can pick up lot of rocks or something and go outside.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-05-04 at 08:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    This is 1) Hilarious for RP purposes and 2) a wierd feat. I don't know if most people would take it but for a sillier it'd be an okay one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

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    S. pirit

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    This is 1) Hilarious for RP purposes and 2) a wierd feat. I don't know if most people would take it but for a sillier it'd be an okay one.
    Exactly my intent, funny and different without being bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    This feat works exactly until you reach someplace outside of a dungeon like say, an open field. Then things get tricky.
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    This feat works exactly until you reach someplace outside of a dungeon like say, an open field. Then things get tricky.
    Thats why I made the rule about what you're carrying. Pick up some rocks and you can walk around clumsily, or just pole off the ground like a riverboat. High-level adventurers with this would probably carry around a box of weights in a bag of holding for just this situation, or maybe a sort of roofed cart so they don't get the DEX penalty.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    This is actually pretty interesting. You get what amounts to situational flight in return for a penalty to your regular movement (i.e. carrying unnecessary weight or similar when you're not on the ceiling. I'd totally take this for the right character.

    If I were to criticize it, it's that the feat seems to come out of nowhere. Maybe you should flavor it like the OA feats that you get if you were descended from someone cool, or something like that. It's a family curse, or talent that people born with the ability can choose to develop. Something like that. All feats don't require explaination, but I prefer that supernatural seeming ones do.


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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
    This is actually pretty interesting. You get what amounts to situational flight in return for a penalty to your regular movement (i.e. carrying unnecessary weight or similar when you're not on the ceiling. I'd totally take this for the right character.
    I was envisioning it as these people being on the ceiling unless the floor is absolutely necessary, as being on the ceiling is natural to them. By "Situational Flight", do you mean the floating around when holding exactly the right amount of stuff? Because that's only controlled if you have something to push off of, and something to hit when you get where you're going.
    If I were to criticize it, it's that the feat seems to come out of nowhere. Maybe you should flavor it like the OA feats that you get if you were descended from someone cool, or something like that. It's a family curse, or talent that people born with the ability can choose to develop. Something like that. All feats don't require explaination, but I prefer that supernatural seeming ones do.
    I wasn't sure about fluff, so I didn't bother making any. Got any more specific ideas? I figured the origin could be decided by the player, same as the rest of the backstory. The most I did in that respect was making sure that it wouldn't come out of nowhere mid-life, since you need to take it at first level. The assumption is that they were born with it.

    Actually, I'll add a bit about a feather-fall for a month after birth, to explain why the babies don't smash against the ceiling as soon as they're born.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Maybe have the feats as the mark or curse of some sort of chaos being or wild mage deity? Somewhere on the internet there's a list of 10000 random magical effects that could go off when a wild surge occurs. A lot of them are wildly large radius, like 'paladins within 30 miles ...', etc. What if this sort of thing is the result of being hit by something similar sometime in your character's past?

    Other ideas (if you need em, that is):

    - Fail at dying. Basically, the first time you die (or any time you would normally transition from living to dead) you automatically turn into some form of sentient undead instead of properly dying.

    - Fail at missing. Any ranged attack you make will without fail hit a target assuming there is a target within range. If you miss your attack roll against your intended target you auto-hit a random target in range instead. Great feat for a solo combatant, horrible for a team player.

    - Fail at Aging. You age backwards, and so both your mental and physical stats improve as you 'age', but you must start the campaign at the maximum age category for your race and thus begin with a -6 to all physical stats. A bit harsh, and then pretty powerful for a feat later on if the campaign is long timescale (+3 to three stats for a single feat)

    - Fail at Existing. Half the time you aren't. Some sort of mutual blink effect - your stuff has a miss chance, but so do things against you.

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    I was envisioning it as these people being on the ceiling unless the floor is absolutely necessary, as being on the ceiling is natural to them. By "Situational Flight", do you mean the floating around when holding exactly the right amount of stuff? Because that's only controlled if you have something to push off of, and something to hit when you get where you're going.
    Immovable rods are invaluable for these guys, modified ones made as boots would be very useful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    Immovable rods are invaluable for these guys, modified ones made as boots would be very useful.
    but as soon as they un-immovable the boots, they float up.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    but as soon as they un-immovable the boots, they float up.
    release one boot at a time and reactivate the other as you release the other. Make it automatic and you have an instant way of staying anywhere you want, even a a "landbound" individual would find use for these.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    By "Situational Flight", do you mean the floating around when holding exactly the right amount of stuff?
    Nah, I meant walking around on the ceiling. It's not really as good as flight, but is useful in many of the same ways flight is.

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    I wasn't sure about fluff, so I didn't bother making any. Got any more specific ideas?
    Not at the moment, and I have to leave the house pretty soon. However you could even put something like, "There are many ways this can happen. Sometimes it's the result of a magical accident or a freak occurrence. This can also be the result of a cursed bloodline or mixed heritage, etc." This sort of thing also opens the doors for more pseudo-magical feats.


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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    I'm seeing a character with this feat, a friend with a rope, and being pulled around like a kite.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    Normal: Gravity pulls you toward the ground, like everyone else.
    The fact you felt the need to say that amused me nearly as much as the feat itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    release one boot at a time and reactivate the other as you release the other. Make it automatic and you have an instant way of staying anywhere you want, even a a "landbound" individual would find use for these.
    I always preferred to use arms of the naga with an immovable rod in each arm. Makes for much more utility, and a monk or similar would have a wail of a time with all 4 limbs free to attack at the same time...

    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    - Fail at dying. Basically, the first time you die (or any time you would normally transition from living to dead) you automatically turn into some form of sentient undead instead of properly dying.
    That is very Pratchett, and I'm amused.
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    These might be more appropriate as traits rather than feats.
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    Maybe have the feats as the mark or curse of some sort of chaos being or wild mage deity? Somewhere on the internet there's a list of 10000 random magical effects that could go off when a wild surge occurs. A lot of them are wildly large radius, like 'paladins within 30 miles ...', etc. What if this sort of thing is the result of being hit by something similar sometime in your character's past?
    Seems like a good idea, but of course just about any sort of oddness could result in these.
    - Fail at dying. Basically, the first time you die (or any time you would normally transition from living to dead) you automatically turn into some form of sentient undead instead of properly dying.
    Seems a bit overpowered. Aren't there a few classes with "turn into an undead" as a capstone? And don't most intelligent undead have a bit of LA?
    - Fail at missing. Any ranged attack you make will without fail hit a target assuming there is a target within range. If you miss your attack roll against your intended target you auto-hit a random target in range instead. Great feat for a solo combatant, horrible for a team player.
    Again, overpowered. All you have to do is make sure that you never stay within range of your allies and you've got no miss chance at all.
    - Fail at Aging. You age backwards, and so both your mental and physical stats improve as you 'age', but you must start the campaign at the maximum age category for your race and thus begin with a -6 to all physical stats. A bit harsh, and then pretty powerful for a feat later on if the campaign is long timescale (+3 to three stats for a single feat)
    Not sure about this one.
    - Fail at Existing. Half the time you aren't. Some sort of mutual blink effect - your stuff has a miss chance, but so do things against you.
    Working on this right now, should be up by tomorrow. I'm reworking it a bit, though, since it seems a bit too good as you wrote it. What if you're a spellcaster? Your own miss chance can now be completely ignored, since you don't use too many attack rolls. By the way, phrasing of the second sentence was perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
    These might be more appropriate as traits rather than feats.
    Yes, maybe in some ways, but traits are usually more minor. Most traits are just a small penalty to a skill (or just a situational usage of a skill) with a small bonus to another. These are a bit bigger.



    EDIT: Added the feat "Occasionally Not".
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-05-05 at 05:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    The fact you felt the need to say that amused me nearly as much as the feat itself.
    You have to list these things, otherwise how are we supposed to know how gravity effects the average person? Gravity could quite possibly turn the average person blue.



    Hmm, how about "Failure at Linguistics" You understand every language, but whenever you talk, you speak in a random language. Though, that seems pretty debilitating for non metagamers, and awesome for metagamers...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    The fact you felt the need to say that amused me nearly as much as the feat itself.
    Then you should like the equivalent text of the next feat. I'm planning to do one for all of them, and to phrase them in the most pointlessly flourishy way possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    One critique on the rules: You have "level one exactly," as a prerequisite. By RAW this means that you stop getting the feat if you gain a level, which I don't think was the intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A character canít use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
    Found Here.

    What you proabably want to do is have no prerequisite, but have the text, "Special: you may only take this feat as a first level character."


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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    - Fail at dying. Basically, the first time you die (or any time you would normally transition from living to dead) you automatically turn into some form of sentient undead instead of properly dying.
    How about a Jekyll & Hyde sort of format? Every time you die, you come back to life, but every even-numbered life, instead of you, it's your evil twin (possibly undead or shadow-planed or something), whose life goal is to subtly counteract whatever the good twin has been working toward?

    - Fail at Existing. Half the time you aren't. Some sort of mutual blink effect - your stuff has a miss chance, but so do things against you.
    Very boring to actually play. Almost like being affected by a permanent Bestow Curse.
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    How about a Jekyll & Hyde sort of format? Every time you die, you come back to life, but every even-numbered life, instead of you, it's your evil twin (possibly undead or shadow-planed or something), whose life goal is to subtly counteract whatever the good twin has been working toward?
    But that still has the whole "infinite free Resurrections at level one" thing. Also, after the party realizes what's going on, they could just re-kill you every alternate ressurection. That's not even metagaming, it's common sense. "This guy turns from good to evil or vice versa every time he dies, but we only want him good, so let's kill him every other time he dies".

    Seems great, but wouldn't really work out.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    I think the trick for 'fail at dying' is to make it so death is still inconvenient. If you gain the Necropolitan template when you die, for instance, then you lose a level's worth of xp. The second time you die you end up destroyed, so your freebie is up.

    Essentially its a feat for a 1-time pre-paid Reincarnate, which is probably reasonable at low levels.

    For 'Occasionally Not', what about if instead of just having a random pop out thing, you can intentionally pop out as an immediate action but it takes a DC 20 Charisma check to return (which consumes a full round action). That makes it useful (a little more potent than Abrupt Jaunt) but with a big downside. Good for escaping sudden explosion.
    Last edited by NichG; 2011-05-05 at 08:42 PM.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Yes, I very much like Occasionally not, but as written it is really more of a flaw. It has no upside and a downside.... I mean, it has a neutral-side and a downside, but neutral does not an up-side make(I am sure an upside could explain that to you. :-p).
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    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    But that still has the whole "infinite free Resurrections at level one" thing. Also, after the party realizes what's going on, they could just re-kill you every alternate ressurection. That's not even metagaming, it's common sense. "This guy turns from good to evil or vice versa every time he dies, but we only want him good, so let's kill him every other time he dies".

    Seems great, but wouldn't really work out.
    No, I thought of all that. Note that having this ability does cost a feat ... it should give an advantage, on the whole. Also, after the party kills your evil twin a couple times (and their learning to do so would be a fun process to roleplay!), the evil twin will undoubtedly learn some evasive/stealthy tactics, no? Run and hide as soon as he "wakes up"? (If he didn't start out with a devious enough style to work his sabotage subtly, that is.)

    I suppose there could be a clause about how your party doesn't get any XP for defeating your evil twin (more than once), or something like that. Also, maybe a clause that it takes 1d20 or d% rounds after you die before the evil twin pops up, so your party doesn't know when to expect him.
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  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Something about the gravity one seems a little weird to me. By basing it off load instead of weight, you make it so that a character who gets hit with a Bull's Strength or a Barbarian who goes into rage suddenly float up when they wouldn't have before. Of course, if that's how you intend it to work it's just fine; these feats are supposed to be counterintuitive, after all.

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    Jade Dragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    These seem more like flaws then feats. Upside-down makes it so you'd just keep falling up into the sky, and if you carry enough weight to stay on the ground, you take penalties.

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    I like this .

    In roleplaying groups, these can be very funny on NPC's.

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    Default Re: Exactly Wrong (3.5 feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    Upside-Down
    Prerequisites: No racial fly (or similar) move speed with perfect maneuverability.
    Benefits: You are affected by gravity in a way exactly opposite to most people. While most people fall down, and pretty much stay on the ground without effort, you fall toward ceilings. This is an Extraordinary effect. The effect will hold up to your moderate load in carried equipment. If you are carrying the absolute minimum amount of weight to count as a heavy load, you (and the equipment) are not affected by gravity in any way, though your own senses continue telling you that "down" is where most people have "up". You do not gain a fly speed, but you can be pushed around through the air as thought you had no weight. If you carry more than the minimum heavy load, you fall to the ground, and your weight is considered to be equal to what you are carrying minus your moderate load. Your sense of balance continues to tell you the reversed "up' and "down', however, so you incur a -4 to Dexterity, and an additional -2 to Reflex saves, if trying to act in what, to you, is an upside-down direction.
    People are born with this feat. For the first month after birth, they are under an effect identical to that of a Feather Fall spell.
    Special: This feat can only be taken at first level.
    Normal: Gravity pulls you toward the ground, like everyone else.
    This isn't powerful enough to warrant a feat- it completely screws you when you're outside, which is most of the time for most normal campaigns. Its advantages are pretty heavily outweighed by its disadvantages, and you won't always have a heavy load handy. Maybe a trait- feats are supposed to at least mostly be positive, and this is about even.


    Occasionally Not
    Most people always are, but occasionally you are not.
    Benefit: immediately before your place in initiative, roll 1d3. On a 3, you cease to exist until your turn next comes up, at which point you reappear, and take actions as usual. You do not roll on the turn that you reappear. If you are in the middle of an action that takes more than one round to complete, treat it as though you stopped for that one round. If you have 10 or more HD, you are powerful enough that the universe will not forget you so easily. Instead of rolling 1d3, roll 1d6. On a 5, you will cease to exist as above. On a 6, however, you leave behind a slightly translucent image of yourself, frozen in the exact position you were in when you disappeared. Treat this as a Silent Image spell with a caster level equal to your HD, and a duration of "until you reappear".
    Special: This feat can only be taken at first level.
    Normal: You suffer no spontaneous lapses in existance.
    NOTE: when out of combat, it is advised simply to say that the character with this feat seems to be flickering, vanishing for a few seconds then reappearing for a bit, instead of rolling every 6 seconds.
    This should be a flaw! There is no advantage here! You lose a turn in combat, and in return you get to not be attacked that turn, and it's completely random. It'd be okay if it were immediately after your place in initiative, but as written you're losing a turn.

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