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    Default Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    These spells are intended to be similar to the Orb line of spells, in that they have a normal and a Lesser version and come in many different varieties, and are a different school than is typical for such effects.

    Fascinating Wisp
    Illusion (Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 4, Bard 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 1 minute/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates or Will partial, see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small flame bursts into being in front of you. It shimmers mysteriously, and small tongues of flame occasionally fly from it as it moves toward your target. It is not hot enough to burn, and does not illuminate anything.

    This spell creates a Fine sized flame in a square adjacent to you, which floats toward your target (a creature selected by you at the time of casting, who is within Close range of you when you cast the spell) at a rate of 20 feet per round, and can pass through nonliving things. It moves in a straight line, and does not turn to avoid other living things than the target. If it touches a living creature, it disappears and that creature must make a Will save or be Fascinated for 1 minute/caster level. If they make the Will save, they automatically recover from Fascination after a round. In addition, any creature within 5 feet of the flame other than the caster as it is moving towards the target must make a Will save or be fascinated for a round. If the spell's first duration expires before the flame touches a creature, the flame vanishes.

    Fascinating Wisp, Lesser
    Illusion (Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2, Bard 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 5 rounds/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small orange light appears in front of you, shimmering intriguingly, and floats toward your target.

    This spell creates a Fine sized light in a square adjacent to you, which floats toward your target (a creature selected by you at the time of casting, who is within Close range of you when you cast the spell) at a rate of 15 feet per round with Perfect maneuverability, and can pass through nonliving things. If it touches a living creature as it flies, it disappears and that creature must make a Will save or be Fascinated for 5 rounds/caster level. If the spell's first duration expires before the light touches a creature, the light vanishes.

    Sorrowful Wisp
    Illusion (Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 4, Bard 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 2 rounds for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small flame bursts into being in front of you. It is a deep blue, and small sparks shaped like tears occasionally fly from it as it moves toward your target. It is not hot enough to burn, and does not illuminate anything.

    This spell acts as Fascinating Wisp, except that the effect on contact is as the Death Urge psionic power if the Will save (as normal for a spell of this level) is not made, and the effect for being nearby is a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.

    Sorrowful Wisp, Lesser
    Illusion (Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2, Bard 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 5 rounds/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small blue light appears in front of you, quavering faintly, and floats toward your target.

    This spell acts as Fascinating Wisp, Lesser, except that the effect on contact is that the one touched gets a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.

    Confusing Wisp
    Illusion(Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 4, Bard 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 1 minute/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates or Will partial, see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small flame bursts into being in front of you. It flickers kaleidoscopically, and small swirls of spinning light occasionally fly from it as it moves toward your target. It is not hot enough to burn, and does not illuminate anything.

    This spell acts as Fascinating Wisp, except that the effect on contact is that the touched creature must make a Will save or be Confused for 1 minute/caster level, or one round if they make the Will save, and the effect for being nearby is that they must make a Will save or be Confused for one round.

    Confusing Wisp, Lesser
    Illusion(Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2, Bard 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 5 rounds/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small, many-colored light appears in front of you, flickering oddly, and floats toward your target.

    This spell acts as Fascinating Wisp, Lesser, except that the effect on contact is that the one touched must make a Will save or be confused for 5 rounds/caster level rounds.

    Blinding Wisp
    Illusion(Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 4, Bard 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 1 minute/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates or Will partial, see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small, but very bright, flame bursts into being in front of you. It pulses brightly, and small bursts of flame like solar flares occasionally fly from it as it moves toward your target. It is not hot enough to burn, and does not illuminate anything.

    This spell acts as Fascinating Wisp, except that the effect on contact is that the touched creature must make a Will save or be Blinded for 1 minute/caster level, or one round if they make the Will save, and the effect for being nearby is that they must make a Will save or have a -2 on Spot and Search checks and lose half their Dex bonus to AC.

    Blinding Wisp, Lesser
    Illusion(Figment)[Mind-afffecting]
    Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2, Bard 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Duration: 2 rounds/caster level for the wisp, 5 rounds/caster level for the effect
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    As you complete the spell, a small light as bright as the sun appears in front of you, pulsing brightly, and floats toward your target. It does not actually seem to illuminate anything, for some reason.

    This spell acts as Fascinating Wisp, Lesser, except that the effect on contact is that the one touched must make a Will save or have a -2 on Spot and Search checks and lose half their Dex bonus to AC.

    ------------------------

    Questions? Comments? Suggestions?
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-05-08 at 06:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    The mechanics of the spells themselves are interesting (if sometimes poorly worded), but the base idea is very bad. Conjuration is the most powerful school of magic in the game, aside from arguably Transmutation. It does not need to be mimicking other schools of spells, and the effects of these spells are clearly Illusion or Enchantment.

    The "orbs" you've designed shouldn't have Fly speeds or maneuverability because they aren't creatures. The movement speed also makes absolutely no sense as far as range and other casting mechanics is concerned.

    For example, Let's say you're a 3rd level Sorcerer and you cast Lesser Fascinating Wisp. The spell has a range of up to 30ft, but has no designated target. To make matters worse, in the spell's description it says it "floats toward your target at a rate of 15ft per round," which means that even though the casting time is 1 standard action, your spell isn't going to effect anything until at least your next round.

    I think what you're looking for is something more like this (text based on rules for Illusions and the description of the Flaming Sphere spell):

    Fascinating Wisp, Lesser
    Illusion (Figment) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Sor/Wiz 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close
    Effect: Orb of light
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: Will disbelief
    Spell Resistance: No

    A Fine-sized orb of light appears floating in mid-air within the spell's range subtly pulling the attention of your foes. It may move up to 15ft per round and may move through any non-living substance including the air or earth. It may hover in the air without falling.

    If the orb enters a space with a creature, it stops moving and that creature is entitled to a Will disbelief save. If successful the creature is unaffected and cannot be affected by this spell for 24 hours. However, if the save fails the creature is fascinated for the remaining duration of the spell.

    The orb moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you), otherwise it merely stays at rest and hums softly.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have made them conjuration. I'll change them to Illusion.

    The only reason I said they have a Perfect maneuverability was that I wasn't sure of any other way supported in the rules to say that they can hover, need no running start, etc.

    I did not want the wisps to move under the caster's control, however. I wanted it to move automatically. The duration on the spell is how long the Wisp will continue chasing before vanishing. The condition's duration is separate. In the case of conditions with no listed durations (Fascinating Wisp), it wears off when the condition normally would (when they are threatened or shaken out of it).
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    I did not want the wisps to move under the caster's control, however. I wanted it to move automatically. The duration on the spell is how long the Wisp will continue chasing before vanishing.
    Okay, well, just understand that your spells are basically operating without precedent and are going to have some pretty wonky mechanics.

    Here's my best shot:

    Fascinating Wisp, Lesser
    Illusion (Figment) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Sor/Wiz 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Effect: Orb of light
    Target: One creature
    Duration: 1 round/level or 15 minutes (see text)
    Saving Throw: Will disbelief
    Spell Resistance: No

    As you finish the spell a Fine-sized orb of light flies from your square and pursues the target unto conclusion. The orb moves on its own at 15ft each round, no more or less, and may move through any non-living matter including the air or earth.

    The orb will attempt to avoid creatures other than the spell's target, but whenever the orb shares a square with a living creature the sphere and/or the creature stops moving. That creature is entitled to a Will disbelief save. If the save succeeds that creature is unaffected and immune to this spell for 24 hours. If the save fails that creature is Fascinated for 15 minutes. Regardless, after the saving throw is rolled, this spell ends.

    After a number of rounds equal to your caster level if the orb has not yet entered the space of any living creature it winks out of existence and this spell ends.

    The condition's duration is separate. In the case of conditions with no listed durations (Fascinating Wisp), it wears off when the condition normally would (when they are threatened or shaken out of it).
    So if you hit someone in the middle of nowhere with it they are just Fascinated forever? Seems awkward.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    I don't need them redone, this isn't the Request a Homebrew thread. The basic effect is currently as I want it, what I'm looking for is tips on balance, typos, changing the numbers around, but the spells in general are as intended.

    However, I do like the bit you had about the duration.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    I don't need them redone, this isn't the Request a Homebrew thread. The basic effect is currently as I want it, what I'm looking for is tips on balance, typos, changing the numbers around, but the spells in general are as intended.
    Seeing as you have changed the spells dramatically after I proposed two different versions of a Wisp spell I find this statement to be somewhat disingenuous.

    You're still assigning maneuverability to a non-creature which is simply incorrect, your spells still reference a target in the description but without any rules on how you assign your target, and your spells still have a range entry which seems to be entirely meaningless.

    Because the spells aren't ranged touch attacks, but conjure an effect (which is why I added the effect entry and why Dancing Lights, Flaming Sphere, and Spectral Hand all have the effect entry) giving a Range of Close like you have indicates that you may summon the Wisp in any square up to 25ft +5ft/two caster levels away from you. The description of the spell of course contradicts this.

    In short, I offered completely redone versions of the spell because yours still do not work correctly, revisions notwithstanding.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Seeing as you have changed the spells dramatically after I proposed two different versions of a Wisp spell I find this statement to be somewhat disingenuous.

    You're still assigning maneuverability to a non-creature which is simply incorrect, your spells still reference a target in the description but without any rules on how you assign your target, and your spells still have a range entry which seems to be entirely meaningless.

    Because the spells aren't ranged touch attacks, but conjure an effect (which is why I added the effect entry and why Dancing Lights, Flaming Sphere, and Spectral Hand all have the effect entry) giving a Range of Close like you have indicates that you may summon the Wisp in any square up to 25ft +5ft/two caster levels away from you. The description of the spell of course contradicts this.

    In short, I offered completely redone versions of the spell because yours still do not work correctly, revisions notwithstanding.
    Sorry for mutual misunderstandings, then.

    As far as "changing the spells dramatically", all I did was take those bits of your reworkings that were useful suggestions (though it seems I missed the Maneuverability bit, I meant to fix that ) and incorporate them. The only bits I changes were making it an illusion instead of a conjuration and adding a duration to the on-contact effect. I don't think that qualifies as a dramatic change.

    I had assumed that I did not need to state how a target is chosen any more than it needs to be spelled out word-for-word in any other spell's description. I had similarly assumed that it would be understood that "range" was the range in which your target must be when chosen. I'll spell it out clearly:

    On casting the spell, select a living creature within the range of the spell. The ball of light will move toward that creature at a rate of <15 or 20, depending on if it's Lesser or not> feet per round. It will disappear when the spell's main duration of 2 rounds/caster level expires, or when it comes in contact with a living creature.


    EDIT: Actually, it seems I had fixed the maneuverability thing, and in fact had done so before your post.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-05-08 at 12:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Most targets will be able to avoid the wisps by moving away. It is really only effective if the target is within 15 feet or moves slower than 15 feet per round.

    If the creature is close (say 30 feet), it takes the wisp two rounds to reach its target as long as the target does not move. However, if the target has a move speed of 30, it can move 30 more feet away each round virtually guaranteeing the wisp will never reach its target before it winks out.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2011-05-08 at 01:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    I had assumed that I did not need to state how a target is chosen any more than it needs to be spelled out word-for-word in any other spell's description. I had similarly assumed that it would be understood that "range" was the range in which your target must be when chosen.
    As I said earlier, you're making spells that operate without any precedent and therefore will have wonky mechanics. If you're fine with that, okay. I was trying to guide you into more established and rules supported territory.

    As your spells currently stand they still do weird things that don't really jive with normal spellcasting rules, and I find your solution to explain these unprecedented mechanics in the spell description to be distasteful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    If the creature is close (say 30 feet), it takes the wisp two rounds to reach its target as long as the target does not move. However, if the target has a move speed of 30, it can move 30 more feet away each round virtually guaranteeing the wisp will never reach its target before it winks out.

    Debby
    In which case you have still produced battlefield control by corralling your opponent around. Of course there are also other things to consider such as the position of your teammates and/or existing obstructions like walls, the possibility that your opponent may be knocked prone or grappled while the wisp pursues it, or the possibility that your opponent sees no reason to avoid an orb of light chasing after it.

    That said, I do think the movement rate of the wisps is a bit short, I'm just offering counterpoints to the argument that the spells are worthless. The lower level ones especially still have a fair amount of usefulness.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    As I said earlier, you're making spells that operate without any precedent and therefore will have wonky mechanics. If you're fine with that, okay. I was trying to guide you into more established and rules supported territory.

    As your spells currently stand they still do weird things that don't really jive with normal spellcasting rules, and I find your solution to explain these unprecedented mechanics in the spell description to be distasteful.
    Which explanations do you find "distasteful"? I'll see if I can rephrase them.

    In which case you have still produced battlefield control by corralling your opponent around. Of course there are also other things to consider such as the position of your teammates and/or existing obstructions like walls, the possibility that your opponent may be knocked prone or grappled while the wisp pursues it, or the possibility that your opponent sees no reason to avoid an orb of light chasing after it.

    That said, I do think the movement rate of the wisps is a bit short, I'm just offering counterpoints to the argument that the spells are worthless. The lower level ones especially still have a fair amount of usefulness.
    You've got it exactly. Either they chase the enemy away, or they get hit, either way it's a pretty good form of battlefield control. If they are prevented from fleeing or don't bother to, they get a status condition ranging from incapacitating to inconvenient, depending on which spell.


    How do you feel about the levels the spells are at, and the effects given by them? I'm especially concerned about the Sorrowful Wisp, since "stab yourself repeatedly" is a pretty big problem mid-combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    Which explanations do you find "distasteful"? I'll see if I can rephrase them.
    It isn't the phrasing I find distasteful, it's that you are using the explanations to cover for wonky mechanics. This goes against my design philosophies, but there are professional game designers who would have no problem with your method, so I concede the issue.

    How do you feel about the levels the spells are at, and the effects given by them? I'm especially concerned about the Sorrowful Wisp, since "stab yourself repeatedly" is a pretty big problem mid-combat.
    I don't know the Death Urge power. Let me look it up. Okay, wow, Sorrowful Wisp is definitely too powerful for a 4th level spell, or rather it's more powerful than I think you want it to be.

    Blinding Wisp, Lesser and Blinding Wisp both seem like they are much too weak for their respective levels. I would lower them both by 1 spell level, and possibly even lower Blinding Wisp by two levels (as it is Glitterdust, a 2nd level spell, is much better than it almost all of the time).

    Confusing Wisp, Lesser can probably safely be lowered to Sorc/Wiz 1, while if you edit Confusing Wisp proper so that the duration matches the 1 minute/level duration it is given I think it works as a 4th level spell, maybe (Confusion is a guaranteed save-or-suck vs multiple opponents at a longer range, with a shorter duration albeit one that is almost always still long enough).

    Fascinating Wisp is probably not worth a 4th level spell slot, but I'm not sure. Fascinating Wisp, Lesser seems worth it, but may need to be moved to 1st level.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    From what I have heard about orb spells the thing that makes them broken is that they don't allow SR. I would recommend not repeating that mistake since it is ESPECIALLY non-nonsensical here. You don't mention it in your design goals at the top, so I will assume it wasn't part of your goals.

    The original orbs at least had the excuse that SOME of them could be said to create stable, physical objects with no need for magic to keep them in existance once they had started to move towards their target. These have no such excuses since the effects are purely mystical.

    If you need to amp up the effects or reduce the level to make up for this then that is fine... I didn't read them that closely to know if that would be necessary or not.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2011-05-08 at 05:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Wisps: the Orbs of Enchantment! (3.5 spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I don't know the Death Urge power. Let me look it up. Okay, wow, Sorrowful Wisp is definitely too powerful for a 4th level spell, or rather it's more powerful than I think you want it to be.
    I went with 4th level since it is a 4th level Psion power. Maybe that wasn;t a good way to estimate, I'm not good at balance.
    EDIT: I realized that the duration on Death Urge is a big reason it is not too overpowered, so I changed it. Still longer than Death Urge, but not as much so.


    Blinding Wisp, Lesser and Blinding Wisp both seem like they are much too weak for their respective levels. I would lower them both by 1 spell level, and possibly even lower Blinding Wisp by two levels (as it is Glitterdust, a 2nd level spell, is much better than it almost all of the time).
    Sounds good, again, I have no experience with balance.
    EDIT: I realized that the duration for Blinding Wisp in the description was significantly shorter than the one in the statblock, so I fixed that. Is it still too high level?


    Confusing Wisp, Lesser can probably safely be lowered to Sorc/Wiz 1, while if you edit Confusing Wisp proper so that the duration matches the 1 minute/level duration it is given I think it works as a 4th level spell, maybe (Confusion is a guaranteed save-or-suck vs multiple opponents at a longer range, with a shorter duration albeit one that is almost always still long enough).
    Oh yeah, missed that typo.

    Fascinating Wisp is probably not worth a 4th level spell slot, but I'm not sure. Fascinating Wisp, Lesser seems worth it, but may need to be moved to 1st level.
    Comments in bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    From what I have heard about orb spells the thing that makes them broken is that they don't allow SR. I would recommend not repeating that mistake since it is ESPECIALLY non-nonsensical here. You don't mention it in your design goals at the top, so I will assume it wasn't part of your goals.

    The original orbs at least had the excuse that SOME of them could be said to create stable, physical objects with no need for magic to keep them in existance once they had started to move towards their target. These have no such excuses since the effects are purely mystical.

    If you need to amp up the effects or reduce the level to make up for this then that is fine... I didn't read them that closely to know if that would be necessary or not.
    Yeah, I didn't mean to have the lack of SR. I was copying the template for the write-up from another spell, and I must have missed that bit.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-05-08 at 06:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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