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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose Man View Post
    Prestidigitation says it can lift one pound of material slowly, correct? Supercompress any material. It eventually becomes a tiny black hole.
    No. That merely means it can exert 1 pound of force. The force required to increase the internal energy will greatly exceed 1 pound well before it turns into a black hole [/physics]

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    No, two opposing forces of one pound. Provided you can cast it a large number of times, like with a ring of prestidigitation, you can get the amount of compressed substance to fuse (nuclear fusion). Not quite a black hole, but if you can have hundreds of thousands of solars casting one epic spell, I'm pretty sure you can get a bunch of sorcerers/wizards/UMD abusers to cast it with you.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose Man View Post
    No, two opposing forces of one pound. Provided you can cast it a large number of times, like with a ring of prestidigitation, you can get the amount of compressed substance to fuse (nuclear fusion). Not quite a black hole, but if you can have hundreds of thousands of solars casting one epic spell, I'm pretty sure you can get a bunch of sorcerers/wizards/UMD abusers to cast it with you.
    Yeah, still not gonna do anything, unless you're stacking them. Since they last 1 hour, you can get a maximum of 600 pounds of force per person this way which is far, far, far away from what you need to get anything interesting. That's like claiming black holes are gonna form by stacking a pair of cars on top of each other. To give you an idea of the numbers involved in making black holes:
    As a first order approximation, let us suppose that the coulombic force is the dominant force supporting up a pair of electrons from falling inside their schwarzchild radius and forming a black hole. You'd need about 10^107 prestidigitations to make a pair of electrons collapse. Good luck with that.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernalbargain View Post
    Yeah, still not gonna do anything, unless you're stacking them. Since they last 1 hour, you can get a maximum of 600 pounds of force per person this way which is far, far, far away from what you need to get anything interesting. That's like claiming black holes are gonna form by stacking a pair of cars on top of each other. To give you an idea of the numbers involved in making black holes:
    As a first order approximation, let us suppose that the coulombic force is the dominant force supporting up a pair of electrons from falling inside their schwarzchild radius and forming a black hole. You'd need about 10^107 prestidigitations to make a pair of electrons collapse. Good luck with that.
    Oh my god, the poor catgirls! There's gore everywhere!!
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Oh my god, the poor catgirls! There's gore everywhere!!
    FEAR MY POWER OF MATHZ!!! FEAR ME!!!

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Technically speaking, planeshift can get you to the Endless Plane of People Who have prestidigitation at-will and are willing to help strangers. 10^107 people is easy to achieve.
    I also said it's possible, not probable.
    Last edited by Moose Man; 2011-05-13 at 09:24 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose Man View Post
    Technically speaking, planeshift can get you to the Endless Plane of People Who have prestidigitation at-will and are willing to help strangers. 10^107 people is easy to achieve.
    I also said it's possible, not probable.
    Prest has a range of 10 ft. good luck getting 10^107 people within a 10 ft. radius within an hour.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernalbargain View Post
    Prest has a range of 10 ft. good luck getting 10^107 people within a 10 ft. radius within an hour.
    Permissive readings of Grapple.

    That is, you grapple four people. Each of those grapples you and three others. And so on. You don't need to get them there in an hour, just have them all be there for an hour.

    Everybody voluntarily fails the grapple check to oppose other castings of prestidigitation.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    O_o ... Catgirls ... all gone ...

    EDIT: Hey, with all the mass of the people in a five foot square, that could possibly create a black hole, because volume almost doesn't exist in D&D.
    Last edited by Moose Man; 2011-05-13 at 10:01 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Permissive readings of Grapple.

    That is, you grapple four people. Each of those grapples you and three others. And so on. You don't need to get them there in an hour, just have them all be there for an hour.

    Everybody voluntarily fails the grapple check to oppose other castings of prestidigitation.
    Actually just getting ~10^26 people within a 10 ft. radius will cause all the people to collapse into a black hole.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Wouldn't they all be dead if it is an endless plane of people who have Presti at-will and are willing to help strangers? After all, you can'y have been the first person to think of making a black hole with them.

    Also, food?
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by giantmudkip View Post
    Wouldn't they all be dead if it is an endless plane of people who have Presti at-will and are willing to help strangers? After all, you can'y have been the first person to think of making a black hole with them.

    Also, food?
    Prestidigitation can make anything taste like whatever you want. There are endless amounts of them...
    Game systems I play: DnD 3.5, Pathfinder, Star Wars Saga, Vampire: The Masquerade, Dungeons: The Dragoning, AFBME, Atomic Highway, Dark Heresy, Legend of the 5 Rings 4E, MAID and... EQRPG... Does anyone actually play that?

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Jjeinn-tae View Post
    Prestidigitation can make anything taste like whatever you want. There are endless amounts of them...
    Great, so now they all taste nice.

    The at-will prestidigitation cannibalistic people of the endless plane of at-will prestidigitation cannibalistic people.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by giantmudkip View Post
    Great, so now they all taste nice.

    The at-will prestidigitation cannibalistic people of the endless plane of at-will prestidigitation cannibalistic people.
    They are quite helpful people though, it's just that those arms weigh so much. They're only trying to lighten the load you see.
    Game systems I play: DnD 3.5, Pathfinder, Star Wars Saga, Vampire: The Masquerade, Dungeons: The Dragoning, AFBME, Atomic Highway, Dark Heresy, Legend of the 5 Rings 4E, MAID and... EQRPG... Does anyone actually play that?

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Hey, you're scaring the kids...
    Munch
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    *steals the Fell Animate Sonic Snap*

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    HalfDragonCube's Avatar

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Jjeinn-tae View Post
    They are quite helpful people though, it's just that those arms weigh so much. They're only trying to lighten the load you see.
    Since the plane is infinite anyway, and it is crammed full of these people, then surely they would all be crushed against one another?

    A plane of helpful people that float in an infinitely deep sea of their brethren's crushed bodies.

    Mmm... People jam...
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    There's Infinite space, occupied by infinite people. Infinity-N=infinity. Even if that N=Infinity
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernalbargain View Post
    Actually just getting ~10^26 people within a 10 ft. radius will cause all the people to collapse into a black hole.
    Mission accomplised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose Man View Post
    There's Infinite space, occupied by infinite people. Infinity-N=infinity. Even if that N=Infinity
    Actually, that one depends on which infinity is bigger. Either way, you still end up with an infinity, even if it isn't the same one.

    But what you should be looking at is (mass)/(volume), and L'H˘pital tells me that would approach 0 as you near infinite quantities of both, if only because mass is one variable and volume is three (each length).
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2011-05-15 at 02:46 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Well, there's always the good old Hotel Paradox...

    (Set theory is rather rigorous, even if it often appears to defy common sense.)
    Last edited by NNescio; 2011-05-15 at 03:16 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Actually, that one depends on which infinity is bigger. Either way, you still end up with an infinity, even if it isn't the same one.
    It's been a while since I did any of this, but wouldn't they both be aleph-null? I thought the higher orders only applied to sets.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    It's been a while since I did any of this, but wouldn't they both be aleph-null? I thought the higher orders only applied to sets.
    Infinite people is aleph-naught. Infinite space (or infinite points on an n-dimensional space for any arbitrary n) is aleph-one.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by NNescio View Post
    Infinite people is aleph-naught. Infinite space (or infinite points on an n-dimensional space for any arbitrary n) is aleph-one.
    Ah yeah, now I remember how that works. So he was right, but for the wrong reason.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.
    Don't forget catgirls. Lots of dead catgirls.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Ah yeah, now I remember how that works. So he was right, but for the wrong reason.
    Yeah. Also, he was trying to use L'Hopital's rule for a multivariable function... (m/ℓ3 instead of x/x3) which doesn't really apply without first jumping through a lot of hoops.

    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.
    Blame the fluff authors for throwing around the word "infinite" nilly-willy.

    Mind if I sig this though?
    Last edited by NNescio; 2011-05-15 at 04:25 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by NNescio View Post
    which doesn't really apply without first jumping through a lot of hoops.
    Leap, Leap, Leap
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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by NNescio View Post
    Blame the fluff authors for throwing around the word "infinite" nilly-willy.

    Mind if I sig this though?
    Not at all.

    In fact, that's the first time I've been sigged. Ever. Awesome.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by giantmudkip View Post
    Prestidigitation canheat somthing up by about 35F or something like that. Get a piece of Tungsten and cast the spell around 100 times. Now you have a fission candle that ignites the atmosphere.
    Prestididgation can't cause harm. 60 degrees celsius is enough to burn (or start breaking proteins or whatever). Therefore, you cannot make anything hotter than say mid 50c with it.

    (approx 130 fahrenheit is the maximum)

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Using Cantrips to break the game more

    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.
    Funny how those seem to coincide...
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