Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXI

[Amphetryon]

1. How goes the judging?

2. Made any decision about the next IC Challenge, shinken?

[Amechra]

Can the next one be a half caster, please?

[gbprime]

Judge update... 3 builds down, 4 to go.

[kestrel404]

I have reviewed the entries, but haven't started a real judging. I expect to have time thursday or friday.

[dextercorvia]

I humbly request something that isn't 3.0 specific. Okay, I'm not really doing so humbly, but I will arrogantly pretend that I could ask it humbly if I wanted to.

[gbprime]

I humbly request something that isn't 3.0 specific. Okay, I'm not really doing so humbly, but I will arrogantly pretend that I could ask it humbly if I wanted to.

Honesty. I respect that.

[true_shinken]

Hm, we really could use a half caster, couldn't we?
And a not 3.0 one at that, check.

[Thurbane]

Hm, we really could use a half caster, couldn't we?
And a not 3.0 one at that, check.

Rage Mage was suggested last comp, and that seems to fit the bill.

Probably a bit of an obscure source, but almost every casting PrC in the Dragon Magazine Compendium is 1/2 casting progression, too.

[Amechra]

Fleet Runner of Ehlona would be a lovely PrC to try out; either that or the Flux Adept and/or Osteomancer.

[yugi24862]

Earth dreamer from RoS might be a good pick, although only 5 levels.

[Amechra]

Say, how about having TWO secret ingredients, both 5 level classes?

[dextercorvia]

I'm going to put out there that only 1 of the last 5 competitions came from Core + Complete.

[Amphetryon]

Rage Mage was suggested last comp, and that seems to fit the bill.

Mindbender has also been suggested in the past, as a half-caster that rarely sees more than a dip.

[Thurbane]

Say, how about having TWO secret ingredients, both 5 level classes?

Now that would be interesting...if it goes outside the scope of the regular thread, maybe we could have a one-off special?

[Urpriest]

There have been a lot of special competitions and hard-to-find ingredients recently...I think the competition needs to go back to its roots for a few runs to build up its base.

[Zaq]

Say, how about having TWO secret ingredients, both 5 level classes?

Now that would be interesting...if it goes outside the scope of the regular thread, maybe we could have a one-off special?

So if the E6 one was Iron Chef Optimization: Appetizer Edition, would this one be Iron Chef Optimization: Tapas Edition?

[Amechra]

Yes it would be.

Now excuse me while I post the results for IC:A.

[Kuulvheysoon]

So if the E6 one was Iron Chef Optimization: Appetizer Edition, would this one be Iron Chef Optimization: Tapas Edition?

Nah, it'd be <i>Iron Chef Optimization: Twosies Edition</i> (as in the snack consumed around 2pm in some parts of the world, and it a horrible "pun" for the dual PrCs. They would have to match fluff-wise, of course, which might make it a bit harder.

I'm done the first 2/8 contestants, for those interested (you know how you are).

[Amechra]

A link to the next Iron Chef: Appetizer Edition. You know you want to click it.

[Amphetryon]

Nah, it'd be <i>Iron Chef Optimization: Twosies Edition</i> (as in the snack consumed around 2pm in some parts of the world, and it a horrible "pun" for the dual PrCs. They would have to match fluff-wise, of course, which might make it a bit harder.

I'm done the first 2/8 contestants, for those interested (you know how you are).

Is there enough interest in this one-off for a contest, folks? I might have a pairing in mind.

[Amechra]

A vote for interest on my part.

[Xodion]

So many contests... A dual-class challenge sounds interesting, but it would depend on the classes, as I would want to be at least vaguely familiar with both to enter.

[true_shinken]

While I find the idea interesting, I worry that it would draw attention away form this contest, so we could have two contest with few contestants and few judges.

[KoboldCleric]

Agreed. Personally, I'd be interested in all three competitions (as either a contestant or a judge), but would need at least a weekend for each due to work and such.

[true_shinken]

Agreed. Personally, I'd be interested in all three competitions (as either a contestant or a judge), but would need at least a weekend for each due to work and such.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I would like to judge/participate in the other competitions, but I don't think I would have the time between IC and Grand Dream to do that.

But since I just got a (much better) setup for my office here, I might have more time available for the forums when the rig is not too busy. Who knows. Time wil tell.

Keep suggestions coming for the next SI. What we have decided is:

1. A half-caster class. A 6/10 class could do as well, I imagine.
2. Something from Core + Completes

[Amphetryon]

Yet another bad half-caster option for the next IC: Acolyte of the Skin.

[Amechra]

How about Bonded Summoner? Or Master Transmogrophist?

[gbprime]

Well, overtime at work and severe weather at home blew my "7 day judging guarantee" out of the water, so I guess I never get to claim THAT one again...

But without further ado, here are my results. I found it difficult to score anyone particularly low across multiple categories, so we have a tight field thus far. Ghostwalker just comes packed with flavor.

Chill – 14.0

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Originality – 4.25 – Warlock is an unusual choice for this (+0.25), but Ghost Template Class (+0.5) and Master of the Unseen Hand (+0.5). Wild and thematic!

Power – 3.75 – Telekinesis at level 4 with caster level 12 (+0.5) and it just gets better from there. Unless you’re using it to grapple or disarm, you have to wait several rounds between bursts though, which is when your Warlock blast comes in. While you can use Painful Reckoning with Eldritch Blast, your damage tops at 3d6 and is usuable once a round only. (-0.5) Plus it’s 15th level before you can use equipment like other characters can (-0.25), and taking Ghostly Grasp earlier in (un)life would have been very handy to your career. On the other hand, you are superior at leaving a combat and therefore quite survivable (+0.5), and the ghost immunities and abilities are quite nice (+0.5).

Elegance – 2.75 – Leftover unspent skill points are a bad taste in the mouth (-0.25) and a lack of backstory is a hit as well (-0.25). Lifesense is a very thematic feat to pick up but it does not provide LOS through walls as you think it does, even says so in the feat description. (-0.25) There is however something thematically cool about a vengeance-seeking PrC and a character who is already dead. (+0.5)

Use of Secret Ingredient – 3.25 – Intimidate is maxxed out (+0.25) and extra effort is spent to use it via Imperious Command and Beguiling Influence (+0.25). Painful Reckoning is simple to activate by virtue of being a Ghost and you can even actually die and still come back on them later (+0.5). But you are 2 levels shy on capping the special ingredient (-0.25) and the Ethereal and Feign Death abilities are of no use to you whatsoever (-0.5)

Violet – 13.0

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Originality – 3.25 – I could see a Totemist coming for this build for the Girallon Arms. A two level dip is a bit light, though (-0.25), but Soulbow was a surprise (+0.5). The backstory was adequate, but doesn’t really tell us anything about the character or build, only that she is a Ghostwalker.

Power – 3.5 – You’re using multiple attacks and have multiple small bonuses stacking on them (aside from the Painful Reckoning, which is assumed and I’m not giving points for that) (+0.5). The inclusion of ranged damage helps balance out the lack of versatility of the build.

Elegance – 2.5 – The basic problem here is that you’re assuming you can fire as many mind arrows as you have hands/claws. In my opinion that is not the case. Multiple attacks from mind arrows are specifically granted from base attack bonus, per the Soulbow article. (You are limited to one Free Action per round, and the Free Action is what creates the mind arrows. The number of limbs you have is irrelevant if you cannot generate enough mind arrows with one free action to fill them.) So while you’re still a buzzsaw in melee combat with all those Painful Reckoning bonuses on each extra limb, the soulbow shots are still limited to BAB plus Rapid Shot. So at 9th level, for example, your melee attacks are 2 soulknife attacks plus 4 claws, while your ranged attacks are 3 mind arrows. At 20th, you’re capping at 5 ranged attacks, not 11. Nothing to sneeze at once all that extra damage comes on line later, but not quite as many attacks as you were planning. (-0.5)

Use of Secret Ingredient – 3.25 – Not really a skills build, but you put more than the minimum into the required ones. And I like the use of Spot and Listen to enhance the “scout with vengeance” approach (+0.25). A multiple attacks build does utilize the Painful Reckoning fairly well (+0.25), but you need a method of retreat to activate it. And 10 feet of teleportation via a Blink Shirt just doesn’t cut it without an incredible hide skill to back it up. (-0.25)

The Beloved – 14.5

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Originality – 3.25 – Duskblade, no surprise. Abjurant Champion, no surprise. Vecna Blooded… surprise, and quite in line with the concept (+0.25). (Look for more points on it later.) The brief backstory is neither a bonus nor a penalty, though.

Power – 3.75 – Knowledge Devotion is a nice addition, but you don’t have the skill points needed to supercharge it (you can’t count on anything bigger than a +2 until your teens, and then not on all skills), so it’s just worth a small bonus here (+0.25). Arcane Channeling nearly always comes with an automatic plus to your power score, especially with a high caster level to power Vampiric Touch (+0.5).

It would be worth more had you a way to do more than one such attack per round. (But Duskblade 13 is kind of out of the question…) At your build’s end, you’re looking at choosing between 4 (or 5 if you sponge a Haste from someplace) attacks at a bonus +12 damage or so from Painful Reckoning and Knowledge Devotion, or a single attack with that +12 and an extra 8d6 vampiric touch damage. So as your build progresses, the difference between full attack and Channeled attack actually evens out.

Elegance – 3.75 – Taking Abjurant Champion to 5th for Martial Arcanist is sweet (+0.25), but not nearly as sweet as the effect of the Vecna Blooded template… erasing your identity and eliminating one of the weaknesses of the Ghostwalker? Awesome (+0.5). And I’m a fan of the simplicity of a build with one base class and no dips (+0.25). A spell list would have been nice, though (-0.25).

Use of Secret Ingredient – 3.75 – The Protection domain spells provide an interesting method of ending a combat and taking enough damage to activate Painful Reckoning (+0.25). The Draconic Aura is a good investment for taking the punishment you need to activate your main PrC ability (+0.25), and having full BAB for the entire build is, IMO, worth another bonus (+0.25). And I’ll give the Draconic Aura a second bonus for the effect it has on utilizing Feign Death (+0.25). But there’s the cost of not taking the special ingredient to level 10 (-0.25).

Justice – 15.25

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Originality – 4.5 – This is an excellent example of characterization by way of the rules. The levels and feats tell the story just as much as his back story does. It’s solid, it’s tight, and it resonates. (+1) And I just plain old like the back story and the way it does a scene at each stage of the character development (+0.5). Urban Ranger is a natural flow into Justicar, but it’s the addition of Unarmed Swordsage that caps the motif (+0.25). It pains me to deduct for the two level Justicar dip (-0.25).

Power – 3.25 – What the build is light on is pure whomping power. Outside of Painful Reckoning, you’ve got the odd bonus die here and there from maneuvers, relying on the Justicar bonus die and 2 or 3 manuvers per fight. Overall that’s worth a modest bonus (+0.25).

Elegance – 4.0 – This build has a purpose outside of combat, and it ties in very tightly with whom the character is, as Ghostwalker is a natural tie in to a manhunter (+1).

Use of Secret Ingredient – 3.5 – The PrC skills are taken well beyond what is needed to qualify for the class (+0.25) and Shadow Jaunt is a good vehicle to bring Painful Reckoning online (+0.25). Otherwise you’re making no exceptional use of the Ghostwalker abilities that others aren’t doing as well.

Harv – 12.75

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Originality – 3.25 – Haven’t seen mongrelfolk in a while and it synergizes nicely with the “I have been wronged” theme of Ghostwalker (+0.25). Ranger and Warblade are solid choices, if not surprising ones.

Power – 3.25 – Involuntary Rage is quite nice, though difficult to activate, and Pain Mastery helps too while losing enough HP to activate Painful Reckoning (+0.25). I’ve been giving full BAB across all levels a bonus as well (+0.25). One extra attack via TWF and some bonus damage with Punishing Stance isn’t much of a raw power boost, though. Greater Insightful Strike would have been if it came before level 20, and while Hearing the Air is a nice stance, you’re picking it up at level 19 and not linking it to anything that doesn’t have a 50% miss chance (-0.25). Knowing what square someone is in might be fine if you have a Telepathic Bond going with someone who does AOE damage, but since you can’t overcome that 50% miss chance on your own, the feat does little good.

Elegance – 3.5 – Using the Toughness requirement to synergize four CON 20 feats from Savage Species was a nice mechanic (+0.5). But building damage reduction into a Ghostwalker is a step backwards, as the Painful Reckoning requires you to lose hit points, and DR acts to prevent that (-0.25). Stone Power is a lovely feat to keep you from dying after you’ve lost all those HP, and you would have done well to take it at 12th instead of 20th where I could have given you a larger bonus for it (+0.25). (Taking that at 12th and taking Sudden Recovery as your bonus feat at 20th so you can use Greater Insightful Strike twice in a combat would have been a higher score in Power.)

Use of Secret Ingredient – 2.75 – You took more than the basic ranks in the PrC qualifying skills, so no penalty there. What I don’t see is a Hide skill, despite your +4 racial bonus in it. I looked for that because I wanted to see what mechanic you’re using to duck out of a fight and activate Painful Reckoning later, and I don’t see anything that isn’t already part of the PrC (-0.25).

Slave – 12.25

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Originality – 3.75 – No 2 level dips and a functional backstory. Haven’t seen Thayan Gladiator in a while (+0.5), and you do more than just dip into the Incarnum feats as well (+0.25), which adds to the flavor.

Power – 3.25 – BAB of 19/20 is a good place to start, but the build doesn’t have a lot of bonus damage outside of Painful Reckoning (which as I mentioned earlier, PR is not being weighed as part of Power score since everyone here gets it). And you have numerous places to put your essentia, but have only a point or so for each option. The Stunning Critical on a 19 threat is worth a little bonus (+0.25).

Elegance – 2.5 – I like the bit about using Blink Shirt to pull a Murdock and get out whenever you need (+0.5). But you’ve really pigeon-holed the build by assuming that you know most of your opponents already and that they don’t know you (-0.5) and by assuming that the evil-society gladitorial bouts are rarely to the death (-0.5), which seems counterintuitive to me.

Use of Secret Ingredient – 2.75 – You give a bit of extra attention to the required skills, but don’t max them out. But you don’t have any mechanisms for surviving fights and activating Painful Reckoning, with the exception of your backstory, so that’s a small bonus there (+0.25). Trouble is, Painful Reckoning is really the only thing out of the PrC you’re using to it’s full extent, and I can’t see that more Thayan Gladiator or Totemist wouldn’t make for a stronger build. (-0.5)

Gossamer Knights – 14.75

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Originality – 4.25 – I had not thought of using a Changeling to reinforce the anonymity clause (+0.25), and I am really impressed with the concept of letting people think the character is part of an order rather than a single individual (+1). WELL done.

Power – 4.25 – BAB 20 over 20 levels… bonus (+0.25). Charging build with the necessary feats and stacking multipliers to pull it off (+0.5) and a fair selection of maneuvers to boost damage now and again (+0.25) and to guard others (+0.25), which is within concept.

Elegance – 2.75 – Contrary to what you mentioned in the tactics section, your mount does NOT go ethereal with you (-0.25), but can Shadow Walk with you. (Had you figured out a way to make the mount Ethereal too, I’d have given you a large bonus. But a mount is not “equipment”, it is a creature. So unless it’s a construct, there’s not much to argue.)

Use of Secret Ingredient – 3.5 – The two required PrC skills (Move Silently, Intimidate) receive ample attention, and Intimidate is nearly maxed out at 20th level (+0.25). I don’t see Feign Death being used very much with a “ride to the rescue” motif (-0.25), and while Etherealness cannot bring your mount with you and therefore is of little use to a mounted combat build (-0.25), the idea of Shadow Walking cavalry is awesome (+0.5). What you’re not doing is disappearing from a fight to easily activate Painful Reckoning (-0.25), because while you personally are covered by your abilities, again your MOUNT is not. (Not until you can Shadow Walk, that is.)

Manifestation – 11.75

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Originality – 3.0 – I’m going to assume he’s a human ghost (+5 LA). (I dock you in Elegance for making me assume.) There are cheaper ways to do this, but this is straightforward.

Power – 3.75 – I’m assuming you took Draining Touch and then Corrupting Touch as a bonus. So you’re two weapon fighting with touch attacks doing both damage and CON drain. Nice (+0.5). And being a ghost comes with survivability perks (+0.5). I see you spending 2 additional feats turning ability drain into permanent damage, and I can’t help but think that those would be better spent (-0.25). And I can’t give the 100% BAB bonus I’ve been giving others, because with that +5 LA, you’re really looking at 15/20.

Elegance – 2.25 – The build is missing a lot of information, like sources and a description of the race and LA that are causing that massive +5 LA. So I have to dock you for that (-0.5) since it’s harder to figure out how this is put together. I will give you a bonus, however, for getting Ghostly Grasp early on in the build (+0.25), as most people put that off far too long. But you spent a feat on Diehard, which helps you at negative hit points… only as a ghost you are destroyed (to reform later) upon reaching 0 HP, so this feat seems completely useless (-0.5)

Use of Secret Ingredient – 2.75 – Extra love was given to the PrC’s required skills, but the special ingredient was only taken to level 9 (-0.25). Feign Death is useless (-0.25) and Etherealness is redundant (-0.25), though as an incorporeal critter you have a beautiful way to disengage the fight and bring Painful Reckoning online (+0.5).

[true_shinken]

For the Gossamer Knights, just a note - a clockwork steed as a mount could work.

[Zaq]

Could it? It's still a construct, which is a creature rather than an object. It may have a WIS of 10 and a CHA of 1, but it's still firmly in the "creature" side of the equation.