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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Mystic Muse's Avatar

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    Default Mystic Muse's Marvelous Manual of Monster Class Mania! (3.5 Taking requests)

    Questions I expect to come up
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    Q: What balance point are you looking for?
    A: Unless I specifically say otherwise, tier 3 or 4

    Q: Hey! You did Class X or Request Y before my request when I asked first! Why is that?
    A: This thread doesn't work on a First-come First-Serve basis. I tend to make monsters into classes that are either easy to make, or look fun to make. I'm only one person, so I have to do what I like, lest I get burnt out.

    Q: How Exactly do these work?
    A: These work exactly like normal classes, except they also count as your race. You can't be a human Silver Dragon, or an Orc Drakkensteed. The exception is templates.

    Q: How can I make sure my request will be done quickly?
    A: The easiest way to make sure your monster gets done is to follow these guidelines.
    1. Choose a monster that's a CR of less than 10, and generally 3 or higher. The creature's CR affects the total number of levels it will get, with the amount being equal to the creature's CR. The exception is that I don't have classes that progress past level 20, other than features that scale past that point.
    2. Do not request undead, Constructs, Oozes, or plants. The immunities these get as a natural part of their creature type makes them hard to balance, and therefore hard to make.
    3. Don't choose monsters that get very few features but are still High CR. My best example at the moment would probably be the Purple Wurm. It would be a level 12 class, but it only gives 5 abilities that I could turn into features. 9 if you count the growths and the initial purple wurm body feature. Given my preference of giving each class two features per level, that means I have to create 15 abilities from scratch.
    4. Don't choose unique beings. As fun as it would be to play Illurien, or a demon lord or Arch-devil or similar, they're a can of worms waiting to be opened, and pretty much all High CR. The one exception to this would be that I may revisit Illurien one day.
    5. Don't choose creatures from media that don't have D&D analogues. Doing this means I have to create everything from scratch, including how many levels it has to be.
    6. Don't choose monsters that involve Truenaming, Shadowcasting, Manifesting, Maneuvers, Binding, or Incarnum. My knowledge on each of these, let alone how to implement them in monster classes, is fairly limited.


    Q: Are there any monsters you won't do period?
    A: I don't expect this question to be asked, but I figure I should point it out anyway. There are some monsters I simply won't do, no matter how many people ask. These are not specific monsters, but monsters that revolve around certain traits.
    1. Any monster revolving around mind control, or altering a person's mind. This is a personal issue of Squick for me. Either of these are a very, very good way of absolutely killing my enjoyment of something. Since I do these classes because I enjoy making them, I'm not going to make a monster that will by definition make me not enjoy these things.
    2. Any monster that interferes with a soul going to its final resting place. This is another issue of personal squick for me. This doesn't mean I won't do a monster potentially capable of changing a being's final resting place such as demons corrupting other beings, but it has to be that being's personal choice.

    Q: If I wanted to start making monster classes of my own, could you help me out?
    A: I would do my best, whether that consisted of simply showing you how it should be done (In my opinion), or even giving you advice on specific monsters you wanted to create.

    Q: Can I contact you outside of this thread?
    A: Yes. My AIM address is soulbanish, my Skype Address is Soft_Serve_Smoothie_ and my MSN address is SoftServeSmoothie@yahoo.com. If you contact me, please tell me your account name so I know who I'm talking to. Additionally, while you can talk to me about monster classes, critique really needs to go in this thread, not in IM Programs where nobody else can see it. However, requests can be done through IM if you'd really prefer that.



    Monster classes in this thread by alphabetical order.



    Feats
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    Current requests

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise View Post
    I have a request: an ectoplasmic dragon from the mind's eye updates.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post

    CR 4 - Ekolid (FC1 p38)
    CR 10 - Draudnu (MMV p24), Laghathti (Web Enhancement)
    CR 14 - Verkia (Dragon 357 p31)
    CR 15 - Sibrex (FCI p53)
    CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
    CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
    Obyrith Demon Lords - FCI
    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Um, if your still looking for possible ideas,

    Erinyes

    Lillend
    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    Sharn are from the following:
    3.0: Monsters of Faerun
    3.5: Anauroch: Empire of the Shade

    Phaerimm are from the following:
    3.0: Monsters of Faerun
    3.5: Lost Empires of Faerun

    And lol. It says you don't work well with robots.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFireLance View Post
    Are ye taking request's still?
    If so then I request: Tartearian dragon or Verkia.(Gotta love giant evil monster demon dinos)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokonic View Post
    this. Sky-living mist horses: a sadly little used fantasy archtype.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2012-12-20 at 01:33 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Pyromancer999's Avatar

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Just a suggestion:

    In MM5, there's a template for Xorvintal Dragons, who are, as you seem to want, dragons who are scary simply because they're dragons. You may want to take a look and see if you want to incorporate Xorvintal abilities.

    Otherwise, I think this class should be fine, although I'm not sure sure about some of the added in parts, like the healing, even though they do sort of make sense. Still, it'd be nice to see some more emphasis on the Silver Dragon's role as the Air/Storm Dragon of the Metallics, if you're going to add in things.
    Last edited by Pyromancer999; 2011-05-15 at 02:42 PM.
    Newest Work: Pyromancer - My submission for Base Class Contest X
    Vote here.

    Awesome Quotes:

    Quote Originally Posted by chess435 View Post
    May Chuck Norris smile upon you.


    Finall got an Extended Homebrew Signature, courtesy of Cipherthe3vil

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Silver Dragon






    Description & Details:
    A silver dragon in its true form can be recognized by the smooth, shiny plate that forms its face. The dragon has a frill that rises high over its head and continues down the neck and back to the tip of the tail. Long spines with dark tips support the frill. The dragon also has ear frills with similar spines. It has two smooth, shiny horns, also with dark tips. A silver dragon has a beaklike nose and a strong chin with a dangling frill that some observers say looks like a goatee. A silver wyrmling’s scales are blue-gray with silver highlights. As the dragon advances, its color slowly brightens until the individual scales are scarcely visible. From a distance, these dragons look as if they have been sculpted from pure metal. As a silver dragon advances, its pupils fade until the strongest have eyes that resemble orbs of mercury. A silver dragon carries the scent of rain about it.

    Adventures:
    Silver Dragons will adventure for many reasons. Most often they'll do so to help defend innocents, or to stamp out a source of evil that has grown far too great to ignore. However, like all dragons, Silver Dragons do enjoy treasure, and will adventure to find valuables like long lost treasures.

    Alignment:
    Though usually lawful and good, silver dragons have no great love for hierarchies and formal authority. They believe that living a moral life involves doing good deeds and taking no actions that bring undeserved harm to other beings. Actions that cause no harm are not their business. Silver dragons are hardly pacifists, however, and they are quick to battle other beings who would do evil or harm the innocent. They usually do not take it upon themselves to root out evil. Silver dragons find that, in time, evil tends to make itself felt almost everywhere, and they seek to stamp it out whenever it appears in their vicinity. Should they discover widespread evil looming over the land, however, they are both willing and able to locate its source and tackle it there.

    Religion:
    Most Silver Dragons will serve gods of the Draconic pantheon. Those few who deign to break from this tradition will worship gods with similar ideals to their own.

    Ecology/Background:
    Silver dragons prefer aerial lairs on secluded mountain peaks or amid the clouds themselves. A cloud lair always has an enchanted area with a solid floor for laying eggs and storing treasure. mountain lairs occasionally bring with them the threat of Red Dragons due to their similar nesting habits.

    Silver dragons may also dwell in towns or in dungeons. When doing so, they typically take a humanoid form and blend in with the rest of the population. They always situate themselves near one or more open areas where they have space to assume their true forms when necessary.

    Other Classes: Like Paladins, Silver Dragons will rarely adventure with somebody who constantly breaks their own code of ethics. If they adventure with somebody who does, it is usually because they think the person can be redeemed, or because it serves a greater good.

    Favored Class:
    Any.


    Additionally, the DM and player are encouraged to collaborate on why the dragon advances the way it does. A common explanation is that the dragon is simply a mutant, and grows through power rather than age.

    Class
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    HD:d12
    {TABLE=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1| +1| +2| +0| +2| Silver Dragon Body, Hoard, Alternate Form, Encrusted Hide +2
    2| +2| +3| +0| +3| Keen Senses, Blizzard Breath
    3| +3| +3| +1| +3| Blindsense, Cloudwalking, Draconic Roar, Encrusted hide +3
    4| +4| +4| +1| +4| Silver Dragon SLAs, Silver Ingenuity, Silver Resistances
    5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Detect Evil, Paralyzing Breath, Encrusted Hide +4
    6| +6| +5| +2| +5| Wings, Claws, +1 strength
    7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Boon of Bahamut, Sleet Storm,
    8| +8| +6| +2| +6| Domain, Tiring Breath, Silver Sight +1 Charisma
    9| +9| +6| +3| +6| Improved Alternate Form, Ice Storm,
    10| +10| +7| +3| +7|Growth, Freezing Breath, +1 Constitution
    11| +11| +7| +3| +7| Tail Slap, Gale-force Breath, Wing Attack, +1 Strength,
    12| +12| +8| +4| +8| Arcane Skin, Iron Scales, Silver Speed
    13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Control Water, Control Winds, +1 Charisma
    14| +14| +9| +4| +9| Lightning Breath, Greater Paralyzing Breath, +1 Constitution
    15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Frightful Presence, Growth, Crush, +1 Strength
    16| +16| +10| +5|+10| Reverse Gravity, Protective Aura, +1 Charisma
    17| +17| +10| +5|+10| Control Weather, Stasis Breath
    18| +18| +11| +6|+11| Domain, Silver Immunities, +1 Constitution
    19| +19| +11| +6|+11| Whirlwind, Lightning Storm Breath,
    20| +20| +12| +6|+12| Perfected Alternate Form, Bahamut's Grace, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma

    [/TABLE]
    4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, Disguise, Jump, spot, listen, search, appraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(all skills, taken individually), Use Magic Device.

    Proficiencies: a Silver Dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides her own natural weapons.


    Features:

    Silver Dragon Body (Ex):
    The Silver Dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, a bite attack for 1d8+strength modifier damage, medium size, resistance to cold equal to her Hit dice, and a base land speed of 40 feet. She has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. Her claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spell casting or anything else a human hand could do.

    The Silver Dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to her Constitution modifier. Whenever she grows one size category, her natural armor increases by a further 1.

    The Silver Dragon has vulnerability to fire.

    Hoard (Su):
    Spoiler
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    Many wonder at the reason for a dragon's hoard. Many suspects it's because dragons are greedy, but what about the good ones? While good is still susceptible to greed, it seems suspicious that all dragons tend to have hoards, regardless of type.

    The truth is, a dragon draws power from its hoard. Just as a knight become more powerful with a +5 sword than the rusted pitted one he found in a shed out back, dragons become more powerful with the more wealth they accumulate. It can be used in many ways depending on the type of item it is.


    Gold: Gold can be used to gain the benefits of any item equal to half the amount put towards it. So, it would cost 50,000 GP to gain the benefits of a ring of evasion instead of 25,000. However, the benefit is that the gold can be un-attuned from specific benefits, go back to the hoard's total, and be re-attuned to a new benefit of some sort. The benefits of this are treated as if the dragon were actually wearing the item, so you can't attune to a piece of armor in your hoard, actually be wearing armor, and gain the benefits of both for example. Additionally, this cannot be used to gain expendable items such as wands or scrolls.
    Weapons: The Dragon can gain the benefits of weapons in its hoard. With each weapon, the dragon chooses one of its own natural weapons, or a pair of natural weapons (Such as claws or wings) the natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it. This includes the benefits of any material the weapon is made out of, such as adamantine.
    Armor: A dragon attuned to a piece of armor is treated as if it were wearing the armor. The armor does not have to be the same size as the dragon.
    clothing: Items such as necklaces, rings, boots and such are treated as if the dragon were wearing them. Most dragons prefer not to wear them, since a dragon with a crown and a cape looks silly.

    Un-attuning an item is a free action. Attuning to items in your hoard can only be done during rest, and takes 8 hours.

    However, despite being the Dragon's greatest strength, the hoard is also its greatest weakness. A dragon must designate specific spots as belong to its hoard, and if the items are taken out of the hoard, the dragon no longer has the benefits of the item. This is the reason why many dragons guard their hoards with their very lives, or set up dozens of traps for interlopers.

    There are other benefits to attuning to an item instead of simply wearing it of course. Attuned items cannot be sundered, except by finding that item in the hoard and sundering it. While the benefits from attunement go away in an antimagic field, they come back once the dragon has left said field. While Disjunction will break the attunement on items, it will not actually destroy the items the dragon is attuned to, and the dragon can re-attune itself to the items during its next 8 hour rest.

    Additionally, the previous items can be attuned to mundane items it has. An adamantine Greatsword can be attuned to an adamantine warhammer, as long as there are no conflicting enhancements, and the warhammer will gain the benefits of the enhancements, and any special materials the weapon is made out of. This also applies to other mundane items. You cannot have the same weapon attuned to a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon at the same time.

    Lastly, hoards cannot be chosen willy nilly. Designating an area as your hoard requires you to spend 8 hours at the place to be considered your hoard. Choosing a place as your hoard is an ancient magic and cannot be disturbed, or it has to be redone. A player is allowed to choose to have a specific spot as their hoard before the campaign begins.


    Alternate Form (Su): A Silver Dragon can assume any humanoid form of Medium size or smaller as a standard action 1/day for each HD she has. She can remain in her humanoid form until she chooses to assume a new one or return to her natural form. She cannot choose a form with more Hit dice than she has.

    Encrusted hide (Ex):
    Dragons simply love sleeping in their hoards when they have the opportunity. This tends to make things like gold and jewels stick within their hide, granting them additional armor. The Dragon gets a +2 armor bonus to armor class, and gains an additional +1 to this figure at level 3 and 5 for a total of a +4 armor bonus.

    Keen Senses (Ex): At level 2 the Silver Dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. She also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

    Blizzard Breath (Su):
    At level 2 the Silver Dragon gains a breath weapon that she can use once every 1d4 rounds.* The Breath weapon is a 30 foot cone that deals 1d6 cold damage/HD with a reflex save DC 10+Half HD+Constitution modifier for half damage. The range of the cone increases by 5 feet per HD.

    Blindsense (Ex):
    At level 3 the Silver Dragon gains blindsense as the normal ability, range 60 feet.

    Cloudwalking (Su):
    At level 3 the Silver Dragon can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground. The ability functions continuously but can be negated or resumed at will.


    Draconic Roar (Ex):
    At level 3, even a Dragon's roar is a threatening weapon. As a Swift action the Silver Dragon can emit an astounding roar. Doing so deals half her breath weapon damage in Sonic damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10+ Half HD+ Constitution modifier) negates the damage. Once a Silver Dragon uses her Draconic roar she can't use it again until after she uses her breath weapon. The Roar affects all creatures within 30 feet. Dragons are immune to the effects of the Draconic Roar ability.

    Silver Ingenuity (Ex): At level 4 the Silver Dragon gains 4 additional skill points, and gains 1 additional skill point for every HD she has after the first, and every HD she acquires thereafter.


    Silver Dragon SLAs (Su):
    The Silver Dragon gains a number of spell like abilities, starting at level 4

    At level 4 she can use Fog Cloud 1/day per 2 HD.

    At level 7 she can use Sleet Storm 1/day per 3 HD

    At level 9 she can use Ice Storm 1/day per 3 HD

    At level 10, any SR:Yes spells she has from this class, whether they be from the domains or from SLAs, are changed to SR:No. This applies to those she has now, and those gained in the future due to this class.

    At level 13 she can use Control Winds and Control Water 1/day per 5 HD each

    At level 16 she can use Reverse Gravity 1/day per 5 HD

    at level 17 she can use Control Weather 1/day per 6 HD

    At level 19 she can use Whirlwind 1/day per 7 HD

    Silver Resistances (Ex):
    At 4th level, the Silver Dragon gains immunity to cold and gains electricity resistance equal to her HD.

    Detect Evil (Su): At level 5, the Silver Dragon gains the detect evil ability, usable at will.
    At 8 HD, With a fourth round of study, she is able to determine whether the target detects as Evil due to taint, arcane or profane energies (including spells and curses), personality and actions, and/or a subtype.
    At 11 HD, she can bypass alignment concealing effects such as undetectable alignment as long as she succeeds on an opposed caster level check
    At 14 HD the range of the effect doubles and the number of rounds required to discern information is reduced by 2. This cannot reduce the number of rounds she must concentrate to less than 1
    At 17 HD she learns all available information within 1 round and the effect is always on.
    At 20 HD, her ability to detect evil has become so innate that not even antimagic can prevent it. Detect Evil becomes an extraordinary ability.


    Paralyzing Breath (Su): At 5th level, the Silver Dragon gains another breath weapon, a cone of paralyzing gas which she can use once every 1d4 rounds.* The cone is 45 feet wide and the range increases by another 5 feet for every HD she gains beyond this point. Targets of the breath weapon must succeed on a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2HD+Constitution modifier) or be paralyzed 1 round for each 2HD she possesses.

    Wings (Ex):
    At level 6 the Silver Dragon becomes able to fly at a speed of 10 feet per HD, with poor maneuverability. The wings are still not strong enough to be used as weapon.

    Claws (Ex): At level 6, the Silver Dragon's claws are now strong enough to be used as weapons. They are secondary natural weapons that deal 1d6+1/2 strength modifier damage.



    Ability Score Increase (Ex):
    The Silver Dragon's ability scores increase by the shown amount at the following levels.

    {table]Level | Bonus gained
    6|+1 Strength
    8|+1 Charisma
    10|+1 Constitution
    11|+1 Strength
    13|+1 Charisma
    14|+1Constitution
    15|+1 Strength
    16|+1 Charisma
    18|+1 Constitution
    20|+1 Strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
    [/table]
    for a total increase of +4 strength, +4 Constitution and +4 Charisma at level 20

    Boon of Bahamut (Su): At level 7, the Silver Dragon now possesses the ability to heal the injured. She can heal a number of hit points per day equal to her HD times her charisma modifier. At 10 HD the number is double this amount, at 13 it is triple, and it continues to increase in the same manner (Quadruple, Quintuple, Etc.) Every 3 HD. This is a touch range ability and requires a standard action to use.

    Domain (Su): At levels 8 and 18 the Silver Dragon chooses one domain from the following: Air, Good, Protection, and Water. From that point onward, she can cast each spell from that domain once a day as long as she has HD equal to twice the spell's level. Additionally, the Storm and winter domains are also available. The Silver Dragon does not gain the granted power of any domain.


    Tiring Breath (Su): At level 8, in addition to her Ice breath weapon's normal abilities, she can add one round to the recharge time to make her breath weapon a tiring breath weapon. All targets who fail their saves are fatigued. At 11 HD they are instead exhausted, and are fatigued even if they make their save as long as the breath weapon still hits. At 14 HD even creatures that would normally be immune are still affected. The breath weapon is considered to have “Hit” if the target does not have evasion or improved evasion when they make their save.



    Silver Sight (Ex):
    At 8th level, inclement weather no longer impairs a Silver Dragon's perception. No form of storm or weather penalizes a dragon's spot, or listen checks any longer. The Dragon can see through storms, including but not limited to, Rainstorms, hailstorms, sandstorms and blizzard's with no impairment, and even tornado force winds cannot impair it's listening.

    Improved Alternate Form (Su): At level 9 The Silver Dragon retains the following in any form if she wishes. Additionally, any items worn in their alternate form are absorbed into their dragon form, and they gain the benefits of the items even in Dragon form.
    Spoiler
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    Detect Evil. (Spell Like ability)
    Protective Aura (Special quality)
    Boon of Bahamut
    Bahamut's Grace (Special Quality)
    All Breath Weapons and breath weapon modifications
    Physical Ability scores of its old form.
    Draconic Roar.
    Cloudwalking (Special Quality)


    Growth (Ex):At level 10 the Silver Dragon may grow a size category (ordinarily to large size).
    At level 15 she may grow another size category, (Ordinarily to huge size).
    At 23 HD she may grow another size category, (ordinarily to Gargantuan size).
    At 26 HD she may grow another size category (Ordinarily to colossal.)
    her AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills Change accordingly, but she doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

    Freezing Breath (Su): At level 10, in addition to the other effects of her blizzard breath, the Silver Dragon can make it a freezing breath weapon. All squares within range of the breath weapon are covered in ice, and all targets of the breath weapon are entangled unless they make their save. The ground is affected as if by a grease spell (save DC 10+1/2HD+Constitution modifier). Using this ability makes the Silver Dragon fatigued. If already fatigued, using the breath weapon makes her exhausted. The effects of the breath can be dispelled as a free action. She can not use this ability if she is exhausted.



    Tail Slap (Ex):
    at level 11 The Silver Dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 +1 and 1/2 strength damage, already taking in account large size. This is a secondary natural weapon.


    Wing Attack (Ex): At level 11 the Silver Dragon's wings have developed to the point that they can each be used as secondary natural attacks dealing 1d4+ 1/2 strength modifier damage.

    Gale-force Breath (Su):
    At level 11, in addition to its normal affects, creatures hit by the Silver Dragon's breath weapon may be affected as though struck by wind effects. The force of the effects depends on her HD according to the table below, but she may substitute the effects she would normally have for less intense ones.
    {table]HD| Wind Force
    5 HD|Severe
    10 HD|Windstorm
    15 HD|Hurricane
    20 HD|Tornado[/table]

    However, creatures ignore the above effects unless they are airborne. If a creature is on the ground, they are instead pushed back 1d6x5 feet. The Silver Dragon adds one round to the recharge time of her breath weapon when she uses this ability, and this cannot be combined with other breath effects such as freezing breath. This ability counts as the "Tempest Breath" Meta-breath feat for all other purposes, although she does not need to meet the pre-requisites of that feat to use this ability.

    Arcane Skin (Ex):At level 12 the Silver Dragon gains SR equal to her HD+11.

    Iron Scales (Ex): At level 12 the Silver Dragon gains DR/magic equal to half her HD.

    Silver Speed (Ex):
    At level 12 the dragon is no longer impeded by storms or the effects thereof. The dragon can move through difficult terrain created by storms, such as deep snow, as if it were not difficult terrain. Additionally, the dragon gains a swim speed of 40 feet. Lastly, the Dragon can fly through even Hurricane force winds unimpeded. At 16 HD, they can even move through Tornado force winds unimpeded.

    Lightning Breath (Su): At level 14 the Silver Dragon gains the use of a lightning breath weapon in addition to her others, usable once every 1d4 rounds.* The Lightning breath is a line 180 feet long and the length increases by another 10 feet for every HD the Silver Dragon gains beyond this point. The weapon deals 1d6 electricity damage/HD with a reflex save (DC of 10+half HD+Constitution modifier) for half damage.


    Greater Paralyzing breath (Su):
    At level 14, the Silver Dragon's paralyzing gas changes to a supernatural freezing. Immunity to paralysis no longer applies, the targets do not need to breathe to be affected, and even freedom of movement affects are negated. Targets are still entitled to a fortitude save to negate the effects.

    Crush (Ex): At level 15 the Silver Dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in account huge size
    Spoiler
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    This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

    A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

    A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).


    Frightful Presence (Ex):
    At level 15 this ability takes effect automatically whenever the Silver Dragon attacks, Charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half her HD are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than her. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

    Protective Aura (Su): The Silver Dragon yearns to protect her allies and innocents against evil. At level 16, any creatures she designates as allies within 5+5 x Charisma modifier feet get a boost to Armor class and all saves equal to ¼ of her HD. The boost to saves stacks with abilities such as Divine grace, and the boost to armor applies against incorporeal and touch attacks. The protective aura of multiple Silver Dragons does not stack, and the dragon can not benefit from her own aura.

    Stasis Breath (Su): At level 17, Combining her ice and paralysis breath weapons into a single blast, the Silver Dragon encases her targets, friend or foe, in a prism of arcanely charged ice. Such targets remain encased for 1d3 rounds. An encased target cannot be damaged or targeted by spells or abilities and cannot take actions. If there are any duration-based effects on the target other than the breath weapon, they do not count down for the duration of the breath's effects. her breath weapon range is halved in the doing, and she can choose to not deal damage. The recharge time is changed to 2d4 rounds after using this ability.

    Silver Immunity (Ex): At level 18, the Silver Dragon's electricity resistance is changed to electricity immunity.

    Lightning Storm Breath (Su): At level 19, the Dragon can now modify her lightning breath weapon. Upon using this modification, the breath weapon range halves, becomes a cone of sorts, and creates a small range lightning storm. Unlike a normal cone however, the Silver Dragon chooses which creatures within the zone are affected. The targets of this weapon take the normal damage and effects associated with the lightning breath unless they make a reflex save with a DC equal to the save DC of its breath weapon. The dragon adds an additional round to the recharge time of its lighting breath weapon after using this modification. Targets can only be affected once per use of this ability.


    Perfected Alternate Form (Ex): At 20th level, nothing short of epic magic or the powers of a deity can see the Silver Dragon for what she really is. In addition, Alternate form can now be used as a free action, and she gains a bonus on disguise checks equal to her HD. Lastly, Alternate form and improved alternate form become extraordinary abilities instead of supernatural.

    Bahamut's Grace (Su): At 20th level, the Silver Dragon adds a bonus to all her saves and her AC equal to her Charisma modifier. This bonus to AC applies against incorporeal and touch attacks. This does not stack with divine grace, and anything that does not stack with divine grace does not stack with this.

    *Other breath weapons are not usable when waiting for a breath weapon to recharge.


    Comments and FAQ
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    1. The dragon does not have age categories.
    2. This was intended to be balanced with Tier 3 classes.
    3. The reason some of the abilities scale with hit dice so that the dragon's abilities aren't terrible if it decides to multiclass or if the dragon is in a campaign that goes to higher levels than 20.
    4. In taking this you also give up your choice of race.
    5. You do not have to be the traditional alignment for your race.
    6. This is supposed to be playable with just the SRD allowed.
    7. You can multi-class out at any level. You are not locked into taking levels from this class.



    Changelog
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    cleared some things about the breath weapon up.

    Changed Paralyzing breath and removed the "Hold X" SLAs so that the class isn't bogged down with SLAs, and I tried making the paralysis breath capable of replacing the "Hold X" line of spells.

    Changed tiring breath so that it'll even affect things like undead at later levels.

    Added fluff and favored class.

    made detect evil extraordinary at 20 HD to reflect how innate the ability is supposed to be.

    Cleared up what's kept in alternate form.

    Added a lot of stuff that makes it more of a storm dragon as a lot of posters have been asking me to do. I gave it an option for the storm and blizzard domains, I removed the sun domain and added the water domain. I gave it storm based SLAs and I even gave it lightning breath. I also tried to make the lightning breath a little more interesting. I also gave it a breath weapon modification that mimics the effects of wind speeds.

    Added two more growths in line with the CR that the dragon would normally be that size.

    Took out Silver Will since it no longer made sense.

    Bumped up Bahamut's Grace to level 20 and bumped down Stasis Breath to level 17.

    Changed the ability score boosts to be a total of +4 and made them more consistent.

    Added Lightning Storm breath.

    Clarified that you don't gain the granted power of whichever domain you choose.

    Changed it so that you can't use your other breath weapons while one is recharging.

    Bumped up wing attack to level 11 and claws to level 6, so it'll be getting additional melee attacks at a rate more like other melee classes.

    Bumped tiring breath up to level 8 since a modification one level after a breath weapon didn't make a lot of sense.

    Nerfed all forms of alternate form a bit.

    Added Silver Speed.

    Added Silver sight.

    Removed Paladin casting. It seemed tacked on at best.

    Added Use magic device and Search to the skill list and took away spellcraft.

    Added Encrusted Hide

    Changed it so that it eventually can go through tornado force winds unimpeded.

    Did general grammar editing and made pronouns consistent.

    Got rid of redundancies in Alternate Form, and added that they keep breath weapons, Physical ability scores, Cloudwalking and Draconic roar.

    Standardized its Knowledge skill.


    Credit goes to Hyudra and Gorgondantess for helping me before the class went up, Credit to Oslecamo for the original and inspiration, and credit to everybody in this thread who helped to make this class better.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2012-09-20 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Turning the Opening Post into an Index, FAQ, ETC. and so I need this space for the Silver Dragon.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Dragons have all good saves, IIRC, plus 6 skill points, while your build has 4.75 skill points. Also, some spellcasting would be nice, even if it functioned like Cleric's domains (one spell known per spell level). Or maybe just give it a Paladin's spellcasting to save yourself the trouble.

    Other than that, looks good.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    Dragons have all good saves, IIRC, plus 6 skill points, while your build has 4.75 skill points. Also, some spellcasting would be nice, even if it functioned like Cleric's domains (one spell known per spell level). Or maybe just give it a Paladin's spellcasting to save yourself the trouble.
    While normal dragons do get that, I don't think this class really needs all good saves and 6 skill points a level. Although if anybody else feels the same way, I'll certainly consider it.

    I'm not too sure about the spellcasting. I'll take it into consideration though.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    *shrug* slapping class feature from Tier 5 class on slightly better Warblade doesn't exactly make it Favoured Soul or Sorcerer, sadly.

    In fact, Warblade might be better than what you have here, even with Paladin's spellcasting.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    *shrug* slapping class feature from Tier 5 class on slightly better Warblade doesn't exactly make it Favoured Soul or Sorcerer, sadly.

    In fact, Warblade might be better than what you have here, even with Paladin's spellcasting.
    I just don't really see any reason for Paladin casting, and I don't know how I'd implement a different form of casting. Maybe it's just me though. I could make the domain ability come in more frequently and expand the list?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-15 at 04:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    I will be honest, I don't understand why these builds work this way. Wouldn't it be easier to just create an LA+0 wyrmling race and then have a 19 level paragon class that causes body upgrades every so often? Then instead of it feeling so locked in you can prestige out like anyone else.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I will be honest, I don't understand why these builds work this way. Wouldn't it be easier to just create an LA+0 wyrmling race and then have a 19 level paragon class that causes body upgrades every so often? Then instead of it feeling so locked in you can prestige out like anyone else.
    You aren't locked in. You can multiclass at any time. I may not have made that clear enough. Added it into the comments section just to be sure.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-15 at 04:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    You aren't locked in. You can multiclass at any time. I may not have made that clear enough. Added it into the comments section just to be sure.
    What I really mean is that the class and the race are the same thing, which alters the tone of the character. If there were an Orc class then playing an Orc would tend to gravitate towards that instead of barbarian. Yours looks like it works very well mechanically, though it has the wide spread features all dragon types get.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    I just don't really see any reason for it. Maybe it's just me though.
    9th level manoeuvres. When you take 2 full round actions in one turn, kill enemies with a single strike (or take 20d6 damage on save), add +100 damage to every hit, 2d6 Con damage on strikes, etc, are rather good compared to measly +7 Str and other benefits.

    Only thing even remotely comparable is breath, which doesn't seem to have recharge/limitations, BTW, which leads to dragon standing still and spamming his breath at enemies... And even that for the secondary effects, not pure damage (as capability of targeting different saves with breath is rather good, though I'm not sure how balanced).
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    9th level manoeuvres. When you take 2 full round actions in one turn, kill enemies with a single strike (or take 20d6 damage on save), add +100 damage to every hit, 2d6 Con damage on strikes, etc, are rather good compared to measly +7 Str and other benefits.

    Only thing even remotely comparable is breath, which doesn't seem to have recharge/limitations, BTW, which leads to dragon standing still and spamming his breath at enemies... And even that for the secondary effects, not pure damage (as capability of targeting different saves with breath is rather good, though I'm not sure how balanced).
    You have to remember that is qualifies as a dragon for breathe feats, so it does have some options. Fell breathe to take down levels, etc. Its stronger then any of the breathe based classes out there right now (Dragon Shman and Dragon Fire Adept) in its breathe weapon, and it gets EX flight and a large natural attack selection. If you get pounce on it you could do some real melee damage as well.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    What I really mean is that the class and the race are the same thing, which alters the tone of the character. If there were an Orc class then playing an Orc would tend to gravitate towards that instead of barbarian. Yours looks like it works very well mechanically, though it has the wide spread features all dragon types get.
    The class still isn't any more locked in than any other is. There's nothing forcing you to take it past level 1.



    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    9th level manoeuvres. When you take 2 full round actions in one turn, kill enemies with a single strike (or take 20d6 damage on save), add +100 damage to every hit, 2d6 Con damage on strikes, etc, are rather good compared to measly +7 Str and other benefits.

    Only thing even remotely comparable is breath, which doesn't seem to have recharge/limitations, BTW, which leads to dragon standing still and spamming his breath at enemies... And even that for the secondary effects, not pure damage (as capability of targeting different saves with breath is rather good, though I'm not sure how balanced).
    I don't know how I forgot to mention recharge time on the breath weapon. Thanks for pointing that out.

    EDIT: Assuming I do put Paladin casting in, which level should it come in at?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-15 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    I would suggest starting the casting at level 8, since that is a relatively dead level and also makes it later then a Paladin gets it.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    You'll also want to define which abilities count as racially granted for shapeshifting effects (for example as written either you count them all as racially granted and it loses all its Ex features when it uses Alternate Form or else you count none of them as racially granted which means they're a winged human with claws; while I get the feeling neither of those are intended you should mark which ones are kept and which are not; this is true even for Su abilities due to Shapechange) and should probably cap Alternate Form at HD or else its subject to a lot of Alter Self abuse at truly low levels.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    You'll also want to define which abilities count as racially granted for shapeshifting effects (for example as written either you count them all as racially granted and it loses all its Ex features when it uses Alternate Form or else you count none of them as racially granted which means they're a winged human with claws; while I get the feeling neither of those are intended you should mark which ones are kept and which are not; this is true even for Su abilities due to Shapechange) and should probably cap Alternate Form at HD or else its subject to a lot of Alter Self abuse at truly low levels.
    How would you suggest marking the abilities like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I would suggest starting the casting at level 8, since that is a relatively dead level and also makes it later then a Paladin gets it.
    Okay.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-15 at 09:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    How would you suggest marking the abilities like that?



    Okay.
    Not really sure; it's just a difficulty with one of the older dragon classes I've encountered in play (casting shapechange).

    For this one (since it can't cast spells) you could just include your other Ex traits in Improved Alternate Form.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2011-05-15 at 09:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Not really sure; it's just a difficulty with one of the older dragon classes I've encountered in play (casting shapechange).
    Okay. I'll try and think of a way to address that as it does sound like a pretty big problem.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    The Whelm spell line from PHB II also models the ability to take people down without killing them; the spells do nonlethal damage. It does require a book besides Core though. I didn't read the rest of the class, so I don't have comments on the rest of it.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    The Whelm spell line from PHB II also models the ability to take people down without killing them; the spells do nonlethal damage. It does require a book besides Core though. I didn't read the rest of the class, so I don't have comments on the rest of it.
    I looked at the whelm line and the spells are kind of underwhelming. Pun totally intended.

    Okay, I've added Paladin casting. I will get to the racial abilities thing later.

    EDIT: Added Draconic Roar too. Put it at level 3 since it should be an ability you get early.

    EDIT2: Clarified what's kept in draconic form and boosted tiring breath a bit.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-16 at 07:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    i will comment primarily on things that i think need fixing, and then on things that i think are very cool. anything i don't comment on is fine as is in my mind.

    let's see:

    for starters, the first level looks too good. now, i may be underestimating how bad fire vulnerability is, but i don't think it makes up for full BAB, d12 hps, two good saves, the three large-damage natural attacks, a constitution bonus to ac and an alternate form. maybe if you just give cold resistance at this level along with the fire vulnerability, and then give the cold subtype at a later level––that might balance it out better.

    silver ingenuity: i'm tempted to say that this is underpowered, and that more skill points are in order. but i'm having a hard time making up my mind, so i'll just mention it for now and see what others have to say.

    Silver dragon SLAs Su: ...At level 15 the Silver dragon bypasses both mind affecting immunity and spell resistance with their SLAs. Affected creatures are still entitled to saves
    i haven't looked over the spell lists yet, but if there are sufficient mind-affecting spells in the choice of domains, i think that this ability should be extended to their domain spells.

    Detect evil Su: At level 5, the Silver dragon gains the detect evil ability, usable at will.
    At 8 HD, With a fourth round of study, the Dragon is able to determine whether the target detects as Evil due to Taint, arcane or profane energies (including spells and curses), personality and actions, and/or a subtype.
    At 11 HD, you can bypass alignment concealing effects such as undetectable alignment as long as you succeed on an opposed caster level check
    particularly smart way to use this ability. i like that a lot.

    Tiring Breath Su: ...At 10 HD they are instead exhausted and are fatigued even if they make their save as long as the breath weapon still hits...
    except that it is a reflex save––partial, so it always hits (excepting improved evasion). you ought to clarify this.

    Trickster Ex: At level 7 the Silver Dragon gains a bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks equal to half its HD.
    this doesn't seem all that fitting to me, except for the fact that the dragon has an alternate form and the srd dragon has those as class skills. i'm interested in hearing your reasoning, but it seems like you ought to just make them class skills or something.

    Paladin Casting Su: At 8th level the dragon gains access to Paladin spell casting. He starts with having 1 first level spell per day and 0 second level spells per day, gaining additional spells per day based on his Charisma modifier.
    i see what you did there! smart way to implement later casting without confusing the hell out of people.

    Freezing breath Su: ...Regardless of whether they make the save, as long as they are within the affected area they must continue to make saves or fall if they try to move. A creature can move within the area if they pass a balance check DC 10...
    you say they have to keep making saves, but then go on to detail balance checks.

    protective aura: cool. i especially like that you didn't make it a morale bonus, screwing over the bard and marshal and possibly others. however, looking at the later bahamut's grace, it doesn't look like a silver dragon can benefit from its own protective aura. is this correct?

    Silver Resistances Ex: At level 18, the Silver dragon's acid and electricity resistances are upgraded to immunities.
    why? immune to 3/5 of energy forms. i know the srd silver is immune to acid as well as cold, but i don't see a thematic reason for it. i'd just up the resistances gained earlier. resistance 20 is nothing to sneer at, but it's not as uber and final as straight immunity.

    Perfected Alternate form Ex: ...and the silver dragon automatically succeeds on any disguise checks to mimic whatever it is it transforms into.
    realize that this is a contested check that you are giving an automatic victory to. that's like (in a watered down way) saying that he auto overcomes your will save.

    Stasis Breath Su: Combining his two breath weapons into a single blast, the Silver Dragon encases his targets, friendly or enemy, in a prism of arcanely charged ice. Such targets remain encased for 1d3 rounds. An encased target cannot be damaged or targeted by spells or abilities. If there are any duration-based effects on the target, they do not count down for the duration. His breath weapon range is halved in the doing, and he can choose to not deal damage.
    is this supposed to keep the targets from being able to do anything also, like hold monster, or is it just to keep them from being affect-able by others? cuz' right now it seems like a pretty cool buff for dire circumstances.

    this seems a bit subpar for a capstone, but i'll admit that i don't understand the intent for this ability yet.

    ***********************

    over all, very cool. i like that it didn't offer full sorcerer casting. at first i thought that the SLA list was kind of stunted, but then i realized that the domain spells make up for that.

    i do think that the class should offer a few (2 or so) abilities earlier on than 16th level that directly benefit its allies. maybe a [i]shield other[/]–esque ability or something. or some cold resistance or something.

    that's all i have for now.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post

    for starters, the first level looks too good. now, i may be underestimating how bad fire vulnerability is, but i don't think it makes up for full BAB, d12 hps, two good saves, the three large-damage natural attacks, a constitution bonus to ac and an alternate form. maybe if you just give cold resistance at this level along with the fire vulnerability, and then give the cold subtype at a later level––that might balance it out better.
    Okay, I changed it to level 9 and I could change the claw attacks to a slightly later level as well.


    i haven't looked over the spell lists yet, but if there are sufficient mind-affecting spells in the choice of domains, i think that this ability should be extended to their domain spells.
    There actually aren't any mind affecting spells in the domains.


    particularly smart way to use this ability. i like that a lot.
    Thanks.


    except that it is a reflex save––partial, so it always hits (excepting improved evasion). you ought to clarify this.
    The idea was as long as you have evasion or improved evasion you might be able to avoid it, but if you don't avoid it, even if you make your save, you're fatigued.

    this doesn't seem all that fitting to me, except for the fact that the dragon has an alternate form and the srd dragon has those as class skills. i'm interested in hearing your reasoning, but it seems like you ought to just make them class skills or something.
    One of the things left over from the Oslecamo version. I guess it doesn't particularly matter. I just thought it was fitting. *shrug*

    i see what you did there! smart way to implement later casting without confusing the hell out of people.
    Thanks.
    you say they have to keep making saves, but then go on to detail balance checks.
    I was trying to make it a grease-esque effect, but I guess it didn't come across as clearly as I wanted it to.

    protective aura: cool. i especially like that you didn't make it a morale bonus, screwing over the bard and marshal and possibly others. however, looking at the later bahamut's grace, it doesn't look like a silver dragon can benefit from its own protective aura. is this correct?
    Yes. I didn't think they need another boost on top of Bahamut's Grace so I've now specifically excluded them from their own aura. They can benefit from another Silver Dragon's aura, but not their own, and the auras don't stack.

    why? immune to 3/5 of energy forms. i know the srd silver is immune to acid as well as cold, but i don't see a thematic reason for it. i'd just up the resistances gained earlier. resistance 20 is nothing to sneer at, but it's not as uber and final as straight immunity.
    Another something left over from the Oslecamo version. I've changed it so you don't get cold immunity until level 9, you don't get electricity resistance/immunity at all, and acid resistance doesn't come in until level 9 and doesn't upgrade to immunity until level 18. Vulnerability to fire is also removed at level 18 just as an experiment.


    realize that this is a contested check that you are giving an automatic victory to. that's like (in a watered down way) saying that he auto overcomes your will save.
    I'm aware. This was an idea given to me by another poster who is generally pretty good at balance so I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Remember that this is also a level 20 ability so it should be pretty darn powerful.



    is this supposed to keep the targets from being able to do anything also, like hold monster, or is it just to keep them from being affect-able by others? cuz' right now it seems like a pretty cool buff for dire circumstances.
    It's intended to be Hold monster as well as a way to keep them from being affect-able. The intent is to delay the effects of certain things while also being able to reposition yourselves in a dicey situation.
    over all, very cool. i like that it didn't offer full sorcerer casting. at first i thought that the SLA list was kind of stunted, but then i realized that the domain spells make up for that.

    i do think that the class should offer a few (2 or so) abilities earlier on than 16th level that directly benefit its allies. maybe a [i]shield other[/]–esque ability or something. or some cold resistance or something.
    Hmm. Surrealistik has an interesting Paladin fix that has a bunch of cool auras. I'll see if there's anything on there I could use. With his permission of course.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-19 at 11:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    upon rereading and thinking about it more, i've decided that some of the problems i had with the class in my last critique are specifically tied to flavor and identity. still seems kind of generic dragon instead of silver dragon. i'll explain as i respond to your last post.

    Any idea which level? I don't want to make the subtype come so late that it barely matters that they got it, and not so early that it's irrelevant that it didn't come in at first level in the first place.
    how about level 4? i was mentioning that silver ingenuity might be underpowered for the level, even with the addition of the SLAs, so maybe give full immunity there and leave silver ingenuity as is.

    There actually aren't any mind affecting spells in the domains.
    all right. nix that idea then.

    although, this is going to be a bit out there, so feel free to point and laugh if you don't like it. i have been thinking that a [i]hold monster[/] breath weapon capstone is kind of redundant with the SLAs. what if you give a few more mind-affecting SLAs at different levels, maybe a charm monster effect, a fear effect, and a couple of other things, and then make the capstone act like an eldritch essence, in that by adding a few rounds to the recharge time, the dragon can apply one of his SLAs to his breath weapon, or something similar. that would give some versatility, not seem right off the bat redundant, and give an interesting use of action economy.

    I was trying to make it a grease-esque effect, but I guess it didn't come across as clearly as I wanted it to.
    i think that grease is the way to go for this. but i'd clarify the wording so that there is no question.

    Yes. I didn't think they need another boost on top of Bahamut's Grace so I specifically excluded them from their own aura. They can benefit from another Silver Dragon's aura, but I didn't want there to be like an entire group of dragons and them all getting +16 to saves and AC on top of Bahamut's grace which is already going to be a fairly good boost.
    makes sense.

    Another something left over from the Oslecamo version. I'll get rid of electricity resistance/immunity altogether, and just keep the cold/acid immunity. At level 18, you can get resistance 20 to two energy types by spending a measly 56,000 gold, and I think if your enemies are going to be using blasting spells at that level, they're going to be doing enough that resistance 18 isn't going to be that effective.
    now, something that has always struck me as odd about the silver dragon is that it gains immunity to acid and not electricity. lord of storms, ruler of the skies, etc, but it is immune to acid, which is generally considered an earth-related element, not an air-related element.

    It's intended to be Hold monster as well as a way to keep them from being affect-able.
    if you don't go with my other idea up top, i'd clarify this quite a bit. as of now, it states fluffily that it is supposed to keep them static, but it doesn't define what that means except that they can't be affected by others. still sounds like it can take actions and affect others (assuming line of sight and line of effect aren't issues for the action).

    Hmm. Surrealistik has an interesting Paladin fix that has a bunch of cool auras. I'll see if there's anything on there I could use. With his permission of course.
    sounds good. flavor-wise, this dragon still seems a bit generic, and i think that adding some more protective qualities would go a long ways toward giving it some identity. it is very close though, but just doesn't have that silver dragon shine to it yet that i'm imagining.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post

    how about level 4? i was mentioning that silver ingenuity might be underpowered for the level, even with the addition of the SLAs, so maybe give full immunity there and leave silver ingenuity as is.
    Okay, that works.


    although, this is going to be a bit out there, so feel free to point and laugh if you don't like it. i have been thinking that a [i]hold monster[/] breath weapon capstone is kind of redundant with the SLAs. what if you give a few more mind-affecting SLAs at different levels, maybe a charm monster effect, a fear effect, and a couple of other things, and then make the capstone act like an eldritch essence, in that by adding a few rounds to the recharge time, the dragon can apply one of his SLAs to his breath weapon, or something similar. that would give some versatility, not seem right off the bat redundant, and give an interesting use of action economy.
    This is an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it, although I think Hold monster and such fit with the Silver Dragon's flavor more than fear or charm effects would. I'll re-read things though before making any sort of final decision.



    i think that grease is the way to go for this. but i'd clarify the wording so that there is no question.
    Okay.




    now, something that has always struck me as odd about the silver dragon is that it gains immunity to acid and not electricity. lord of storms, ruler of the skies, etc, but it is immune to acid, which is generally considered an earth-related element, not an air-related element.
    How about Cold and Electricity immunity while retaining vulnerability to fire?



    if you don't go with my other idea up top, i'd clarify this quite a bit. as of now, it states fluffily that it is supposed to keep them static, but it doesn't define what that means except that they can't be affected by others. still sounds like it can take actions and affect others (assuming line of sight and line of effect aren't issues for the action).
    Ah okay.



    sounds good. flavor-wise, this dragon still seems a bit generic, and i think that adding some more protective qualities would go a long ways toward giving it some identity. it is very close though, but just doesn't have that silver dragon shine to it yet that i'm imagining.
    Okay.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-19 at 12:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Yes, I'm a relative newcomer, but a couple little things I noted (I'll leave the big changes to people with more experience).

    silver ingenuity: if you are trying to emulate an 'extra' skill point per level with silver ingenuity you should give 7 skill points to start, to account for the x4 at level 1. 3 extra skill points doesnt mean much in the greater scheme of things, but it makes the math easier if you are taking max level skills.

    Stasis Breath:
    Should note, just to be safe 'If there are any duration-based effects other than statis breath on the target, they do not count down for the duration'

    I know its obviously implied, but may as well make it stated, or some joker will argue that it is an infinite imprisonment as written.
    Last edited by Kyrinthic; 2011-05-19 at 12:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrinthic View Post
    silver ingenuity: if you are trying to emulate an 'extra' skill point per level with silver ingenuity you should give 7 skill points to start, to account for the x4 at level 1. 3 extra skill points doesnt mean much in the greater scheme of things, but it makes the math easier if you are taking max level skills.
    Good point. Changed.

    Stasis Breath:
    Should note, just to be safe 'If there are any duration-based effects other than statis breath on the target, they do not count down for the duration'

    I know its obviously implied, but may as well make it stated, or some joker will argue that it is an infinite imprisonment as written.
    Also a good point. Even if it's something that would be really dumb, I want the abilities to be as clear cut as possible so they aren't open to abuse like that.

    EDIT: Would a few lightning based SLAs help cement the dragon as a Storm/weather dragon?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-19 at 12:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    EDIT: Would a few lightning based SLAs help cement the dragon as a Storm/weather dragon?
    I would reduce that in favor of SLAs and abilities that focus on other aspects of a storm, such as the wind and precipitation.

    This gives me ideas for a new, cool half-dragon variant. It'd give back the race, and over time the silver half-dragon becomes more powerful and more and more like the silver dragon parent.
    Last edited by Solaris; 2011-05-19 at 03:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    I would reduce that in favor of SLAs and abilities that focus on other aspects of a storm, such as the wind and precipitation.

    This gives me ideas for a new, cool half-dragon variant. It'd give back the race, and over time the silver half-dragon becomes more powerful and more and more like the silver dragon parent.
    Okay, here's what I found looking through the spell list in the SRD.
    Ice Storm
    Control Water
    Whirlwind
    Sleet Storm
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-19 at 03:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    This is an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it, although I think Hold monster and such fit with the Silver Dragon's flavor more than fear or charm effects would. I'll re-read things though before making any sort of final decision.
    i agree with you about the flavor there. i just put those in to come up with something, but i don't really know what yet. also, i had mentioned only the mind-affecting effects. but it would be cool if the breath could channel any of its applicable SLAs for a price.

    How about Cold and Electricity immunity while retaining vulnerability to fire?
    sounds reasonable and flavor-related to me.

    EDIT: Would a few lightning based SLAs help cement the dragon as a Storm/weather dragon?
    Okay, here's what I found looking through the spell list in the SRD.
    Ice Storm
    Control Water
    Whirlwind
    Sleet Storm
    yeah. those sound good, especially the whirlwind and ice/sleet storm.
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    Default Re: Silver Dragon playable Class (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post
    i agree with you about the flavor there. i just put those in to come up with something, but i don't really know what yet. also, i had mentioned only the mind-affecting effects. but it would be cool if the breath could channel any of its applicable SLAs for a price.
    That would be interesting. Something like the option to combine say, Hold person with the breath, and any one target of the breath is affected by it?



    yeah. those sound good, especially the whirlwind and ice/sleet storm.
    Any suggestions on frequency/level gained?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-05-19 at 06:08 PM.

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