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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Ooh, clockwork horrors! My favorite dalek analogue! I'm definitely going to have to check this out.

    <edit> I do think, however, that the electrum horrors should have the pressure dart, as it was pretty much the only thing that made them unique among the horrors. Give them a weak ranged attack early on, and make it scale up slightly and maybe have abilities kinda like the manticore monster class from the big project a while back? It could even replace the SLA's, which the original clockwork horror got none of.
    Last edited by radmelon; 2012-05-02 at 09:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    I think the platinum horror gets the short end of the stick, at low levels at least. The others get an SLA that's really useful at 2nd, and platinum gets comprehend languages.

    Also, wondering if you could say 'the Saw can be treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, whichever would be more appropriate at the time'?

    Keeping the flavor of the class in mind, what if you could sunder objects to get raw materials equal to the item's total gold value? (Thinking of Electrum Horror here) - lets you sunder without ticking off your party.

    Would you be unduly offended if I tried my hand at putting a class (maybe the clockwork horrors) together using the idea I'd suggested to you in our IM conversation? I'm interested in tackling the construct issue in a manner that isn't just cutting out skills/saves/bab.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2012-05-02 at 10:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    Ooh, clockwork horrors! My favorite dalek analogue! I'm definitely going to have to check this out.

    <edit> I do think, however, that the electrum horrors should have the pressure dart, as it was pretty much the only thing that made them unique among the horrors. Give them a weak ranged attack early on, and make it scale up slightly and maybe have abilities kinda like the manticore monster class from the big project a while back? It could even replace the SLA's, which the original clockwork horror got none of.
    I know the original clockwork Horrors got no SLAs (Other than Adamantine, or Lightning bolt, and even then the Electrum Horror didn't) but taking away the SLAs would make the Horror/s pretty dull.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I think the platinum horror gets the short end of the stick, at low levels at least. The others get an SLA that's really useful at 2nd, and platinum gets comprehend languages.
    Good point.

    Also, wondering if you could say 'the Saw can be treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, whichever would be more appropriate at the time'?
    Yeah, that works.

    Keeping the flavor of the class in mind, what if you could sunder objects to get raw materials equal to the item's total gold value? (Thinking of Electrum Horror here) - lets you sunder without ticking off your party.
    Yeah, that makes sense.

    Would you be unduly offended if I tried my hand at putting a class (maybe the clockwork horrors) together using the idea I'd suggested to you in our IM conversation? I'm interested in tackling the construct issue in a manner that isn't just cutting out skills/saves/bab.
    Nah. Go ahead and give it a shot. I'd like to have ideas to make Constructs more interesting in the future. I just didn't go with your idea because it would have taken me forever to figure out how to implement well, and it's been long enough without an update for this thread.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2012-05-02 at 11:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Actually, I didn't have a problem with the electrum having SLA's, but the idea I had had for an alternative/addition would be it to have a ranged pressure dart attack, as per the original, and give it upgrades not unlike Hyudra's Manticore class. This would help bump it up compared to the others.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Alright. I've attended to a few of the concerns with the Clockwork Horrors and will be attending to others later.

    Over the next couple of months, I've decided on what I'm going to do. Right now, it doesn't work too well to play the following monsters since they're mostly alone.

    Succubus
    Blue Slaad
    Mezzoloth
    Canoloth

    I'm going to work on making a total of at least four demons, Slaadi, and Yugoloths so that you can play a teamup and not look all same-y. The Kulumar and Scarecrow also have this problem, but I can't think of anything else that synchs with them. The Silver Dragon is also alone, and there's currently only two Planar dragons that are some flavor of evil, but does anybody really want me to create another five dragon classes, three of which would be metallic, and 2 of which would be evil planar ones?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2012-05-04 at 02:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.
    Well, I won't do them any time soon, but I do plan to make classes for all the true dragons at some point.

    Yes, I am aware there are at least 27 true dragons. This isn't going to stop me because, to absolutely nobody's surprise, I love dragons, and I'm insane.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.
    I wouldn't doubt it too hard.
    I think I've had enough for a while.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.
    Funny that you would say this while Soft is Dming a all dragon party...

    Hmm... There are the Chromatic, Metallic, Gem, Planar, and various other dragons, many of which I think would be possible interesting ideas. I'd have to hunt down a list that I posted somewhere.

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    -Alternate Metallic-
    *Mercury [Dragon Mag] Edit: [Dragons of Faerun]
    *Steel [Dragon Mag] Edit: [Dragons of Faerun]

    -Alternate Chromatic-
    *Brown [Dragon Mag] Edit: [Monsters of Faerun]
    *Yellow [Dragon Magazine Compendium]
    *Orange [Dragon Magazine Compendium]
    *Purple [Dragon Magazine Compendium]
    *Rainbow [Dragon Mag?] Edit: [Creature Catalog]

    -Alternate Gem-
    *Obsidian [Forgot Source] Edit: [Psionic Bestiary]
    *Amber [Forgot Source] Edit: Creature Catalog

    -Alternate Planar-
    *Adamantine [Dragon 321]
    *Arboreal [Dragon 321]
    *Axial [Dragon 321]
    *Beast [Dragon 321]
    *Concordant [Dragon 321]
    *Astral [Dragon 344]
    *Chole [Dragon 344]
    *Elysian [Dragon 344]
    *Gloom [Dragon 344]

    -Ferrous Dragons- [Dragon 356]
    *Chromium
    *Cobalt
    *Iron
    *Nickel
    *Tungsten

    -Epic Dragons-
    *Force
    *Prismatic
    *Time [Dragon 359]

    -Non/'False' dragons-
    *Ankheg
    *Behir
    *Frost Worm
    *Pyro/Cryohydra
    *Hullathoin [Fiend Folio, undead but strongly hinted at possibly being a dragon of some sort]

    -Dragon Type-
    *Dragon Turtles
    *Fog Drakes [Dragons of Kyrnn]
    *Velroc [Dragon Magic]
    *Faerie [Draconomicon]
    *Abyssal Drake [Draconomicon]
    *Storm Drake [Draconomicon]
    *Sea Drake [Fiend Folio]
    *Sunwyrm [Fiend Folio]
    *Hellfire Wyrm [Monster Manual II]
    *Felldrakes [Monster Manual II]
    *Linnorms [Monster Manual II]
    *Ambush Drake [Monster Manual III]
    *Ssvaklor [Monster Manual III]
    *Dragon Eel [Monster Manual III]
    *Rage Drake [Monster Manual III]
    *Ibrandlin [Monsters of Faerun]
    *Gorynych [Lost Empires of Faerun]
    *Mist Dragon [Forgot Source, Dragons of Kyrnn?] Edit: [Monster Mayhem, Dragons of Faerun]
    *Maztican/Rain Dragon [Forgot Source] Edit: [Creature Catalog]

    -Undead Dragons-
    *Dracolich [Draconomicon]
    *Ghostly Dragon [Draconomicon]
    *Vampiric Dragon [Draconomicon]
    Last edited by Igneel; 2012-05-05 at 01:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Igneel View Post
    Funny that you would say this while Soft is Dming a all dragon party...
    Yeah, that's pretty hilarious.

    Will start on a couple demons tomorrow after D&D, and after science homework (Soooo close to being done with that.) All kinda low CR-ish ones, but I'll be sure to make them as interesting as possible.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Well, I can admit to being wrong. The gaming group I'm with probably wouldn't do something like that, and I guess that's why I was thinking as such. Now that you mention it though, an all [insert monster here] party would be an interesting game. I'll have to add it to my +1 bucket of holding list.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Enriyes (I probably miss spelled it but it's the Devil Version of the Succubus.) and Lilliend might be nice to have to go along with the Succubus, particularly in a more neutral/anti-hero good friendly game/party.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Enriyes (I probably miss spelled it but it's the Devil Version of the Succubus.) and Lilliend might be nice to have to go along with the Succubus, particularly in a more neutral/anti-hero good friendly game/party.
    You just really want those both made, don't you?


    Darn. I found enough low CR demons I like to make into classes, but all the most interesting ones are high CR.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    Darn. I found enough low CR demons I like to make into classes, but all the most interesting ones are high CR.
    Pffft. Don't give me an excuse to make a Balor class.
    Anyway, how goes the Myconid, Soft Serve?
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Pffft. Don't give me an excuse to make a Balor class.
    Anyway, how goes the Myconid, Soft Serve?
    IIRC, you said Myconid or Adamantine Horror. I kinda hit a dead-end on the Myconid, so I made the Adamantine Horror instead.

    Now that I think of it, you were probably joking and I probably wasted me time. Whoops.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    Now that I think of it, you were probably joking and I probably wasted me time. Whoops.
    ......I was joking. . But you know what? Spider Daleks are fine too. Everyone needs metallic death, and I love Doctor Who. Consider the request completed. Two notes;

    • How the hell did I suggest a harder monster than an Adamantine Horror?
    • All bad saves AND Bad BaB? I know Constructs have lots going for them with immunities and such, but that's overkill. Especially since the class forces the Horror into melee until it gets enough SLA's to make due.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    ......I was joking. . But you know what? Spider Daleks are fine too. Everyone needs metallic death, and I love Doctor Who. Consider the request completed. Two notes;

    • How the hell did I suggest a harder monster than an Adamantine Horror?
    • All bad saves AND Bad BaB? I know Constructs have lots going for them with immunities and such, but that's overkill. Especially since the class forces the Horror into melee until it gets enough SLA's to make due.

    1. I had other things to go off of besides what was presented in the book. Like you said, and a few other people said, they're like Spider Daleks, and that helped. Myconids...I had nothing to go off of other than what's in the book. I just couldn't think of much to make them interesting, and it was hard to give them any sort of clear class to go into after you got done with all the levels. The closest thing I could think of that was similar was Thallids from MtG, and their spore mechanic is hard to translate into D&D.

    Honestly, there are a lot of monsters that are harder than the adamantine horror. Erinyes is harder than Adamantine horror, but for different reasons than say, Dragons.


    2. Alright. Which would you suggest making better? I just recall this being the rule of thumb in the old threads, and I agree that it's kind of boring. I want to be able to make them fun and interesting, but it's a little hard when they get all those immunities.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Yes, generally, when I suggest a monster, I'm really very curious to see how it comes out. And since you did say you were taking suggestions at the moment and we've established that the Titan I suggested awhile back is something your gonna be tackling a little at a time just because of how much work it's gonna take, those two seemed like they'd be better to re-mention.

    =)
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    1. I had other things to go off of besides what was presented in the book. Like you said, and a few other people said, they're like Spider Daleks, and that helped. Myconids...I had nothing to go off of other than what's in the book. I just couldn't think of much to make them interesting, and it was hard to give them any sort of clear class to go into after you got done with all the levels. The closest thing I could think of that was similar was Thallids from MtG, and their spore mechanic is hard to translate into D&D.

    Honestly, there are a lot of monsters that are harder than the adamantine horror. Erinyes is harder than Adamantine horror, but for different reasons than say, Dragons.
    That's.....a fair point.

    2. Alright. Which would you suggest making better? I just recall this being the rule of thumb in the old threads, and I agree that it's kind of boring. I want to be able to make them fun and interesting, but it's a little hard when they get all those immunities.
    How about giving them an "Overdrive" ability that temporarily gives them Full BaB and a small Str Boost? That way, if they're having an unlucky day that encounter, they can give themselves a boost.
    OR
    We go further down the Dalek route, remove the Lightning Bolt, and give them an at-will touch attack laser that scales slowly from Force Damage to Force + Con Damage to SoD.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Yes, generally, when I suggest a monster, I'm really very curious to see how it comes out. And since you did say you were taking suggestions at the moment and we've established that the Titan I suggested awhile back is something your gonna be tackling a little at a time just because of how much work it's gonna take, those two seemed like they'd be better to re-mention.

    =)
    Alright. I promise to work on them as much as I can while also working on the demons.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    That's.....a fair point.
    Yeah. For a lot of monsters, it comes down to whether I can get ideas for them, or if I'm just going to end up hitting a dead end because I only have what's in the book available to me, and what's in the book isn't anywhere near enough.

    What a creature represents also affects the amount of ideas I can get for it. Like I said, there's not much I can do for mushroom men. A demon though, there are probably literally a million different sources I could get inspiration from.


    How about giving them an "Overdrive" ability that temporarily gives them Full BaB and a small Str Boost? That way, if they're having an unlucky day that encounter, they can give themselves a boost.
    This could be quite interesting.

    OR
    We go further down the Dalek route, remove the Lightning Bolt, and give them an at-will touch attack laser that scales slowly from Force Damage to Force + Con Damage to SoD.
    As could this. Though, I wouldn't do the SoD thing. The Con Damage plus the Force damage should be more than adequate to represent the Dalek's killing laser. I mean, the height of human achievement is about level 5, and an adequately leveled scaling force damage+Con damage should be more than enough to take out that. Plus, an SoD at-will doesn't seem very balanced. I'm trying to make the clockwork Horrors playable, not the nightmare of every DM ever.

    1d6 force damage per HD, and eventually dealing con damage too?

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    As could this. Though, I wouldn't do the SoD thing. The Con Damage plus the Force damage should be more than adequate to represent the Dalek's killing laser. I mean, the height of human achievement is about level 5, and an adequately leveled scaling force damage+Con damage should be more than enough to take out that. Plus, an SoD at-will doesn't seem very balanced. I'm trying to make the clockwork Horrors playable, not the nightmare of every DM ever.

    1d6 force damage per HD, and eventually dealing con damage too?
    1d6 Force per HD makes sense. I'm thinking a 1/encounter ability where you can trade in 3d6's of Force Damage for 1d4 Con Damage, or even an at-will version.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    1d6 Force per HD makes sense. I'm thinking a 1/encounter ability where you can trade in 3d6's of Force Damage for 1d4 Con Damage, or even an at-will version.
    I'll definitely consider this while working on it. Edits will be delayed due to my computer being on the verge of dying, and not knowing when I'll get a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Enriyes (I probably miss spelled it but it's the Devil Version of the Succubus.) and Lilliend might be nice to have to go along with the Succubus, particularly in a more neutral/anti-hero good friendly game/party.
    Re-quoting this to ask a question. I'm going for a bit of a "dark Mirror" type deal with the Lillend. The Succubus is essentially going to be an evil version of the Lillend (Though, the Lillend will still be unique once it's done), so what do you see as being the good version of the Erinyes? The only thing that immediately comes to mind is the Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio since they should all be on roughly the same tier of power.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2012-05-15 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Hmmm, that's hard to say actually.

    I personally always think of Erinyes as being a half way point between a classic Succubus type and a sort of evil Valkyrie. (This is form a strict flavor/mythology standpoint so actual stats for the two do not necessarily apply.)

    There the one's who can very convincingly offer a lot of power but are certainly formidable enough that normal mortals should not trifle with them and even exceptional one's should not do so lightly, and can lean just as easily toward mastery of words as they can towards mastery of weapons as a personal specialization, depending on the individual Erinyes.


    Was that any help or am I babbleing?
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Hmmm, that's hard to say actually.

    I personally always think of Erinyes as being a half way point between a classic Succubus type and a sort of evil Valkyrie. (This is form a strict flavor/mythology standpoint so actual stats for the two do not necessarily apply.)

    There the one's who can very convincingly offer a lot of power but are certainly formidable enough that normal mortals should not trifle with them and even exceptional one's should not do so lightly, and can lean just as easily toward mastery of words as they can towards mastery of weapons as a personal specialization, depending on the individual Erinyes.


    Was that any help or am I babbleing?

    Well, the unfortunate bit is, I can't seem to find a Valkyrie in any of the books. I could probably find something similar in terms of fluff and such if I took a good long look, but nothing specifically called Valkyrie. Though, That's only in the books I currently have. I only looked through the Fiend Folio, Monster manuals 1, 2, 4 and 5, and Book of Exalted cheese deeds.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Well, there's a creature called a valkyrie in the back of the ToB, but it has about as much to do with mythology as... I didn't think this analogy through. Point is, in my opinion it's a crappy monster. I wouldn't use it if I were you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    Well, there's a creature called a valkyrie in the back of the ToB, but it has about as much to do with mythology as...
    As the D&D animated cartoon has to do with actual D&D?

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Yes, lets go with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Muse View Post
    As the D&D animated cartoon has to do with actual D&D?
    Now now... Don't be so hard on them. There is only so much they could do without helping the 'DnD is the work of the Devil' that was happening around that time after all. They at least had the 4 main character roles back then, along with a Dungeon Master and at least Tiamat.
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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Well, looking them up on Wikipedia, I probably shouldn't do proper valkyries for the simple reason that they'd run into board rules on religion. And this isn't me just being paranoid, I know from experience (Seeing other divine oriented homebrew) that this wouldn't fly with the mods.

    I might take some concepts from them, but I'd rather this project remain open.

    As a side note, who wants to help me come up with a new alliterative name for the thread?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2012-05-16 at 10:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Soft Serve's Syllabus of Monster Classes. (3.5) taking requests!

    Mystic Muse's Manual of Monster Class Mania!
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