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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    I cannot say for absolute certain that 2nd Edition Exalted is the worst possible game system ever devised for use with play-by-post gaming. However, I can say with complete certainty that it is the worst of the dozens of roleplaying game systems I've actually played. It beats out 3.5 D&D in the "Hey, we've been fighting this level 2 Kobold for 6 months now" syndrome, which is certainly a feat.

    I have to agree with Rosie, if you can't be persuaded to use another system, IM is your best bet for getting anything done.

  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Well hopefully it'll be mitigated a bit since we're all in Australia (and on the same side of it to so the only time zone differences'll be from DST) and Steam Chat should help with the reflexive Charms and so on - they can just describe what their character does in response to the attack and I can just paste what they said into ST posts.

    Most of it might still be PbP for access to Myth Weaver's dice roller (unless the one on Invisible Castle works well enough) but also to have something we can read back through.
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    If anyone can find a better-quality version of that, let me know.

    The Hellborn Hooligans Reborn

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFighter15 View Post
    The main thing I thought of to simplify things is that, instead of waiting for the target of an attack to declare how they're defending against it, you just use the largest of their DVs and if they want to stunt it or use a reflexive Charm, the player says so in their next post and it's just ret-conned into the ST's post?

    How's it normally handled in PbP? Has anyone worked out a simple-ish way of doing it?
    The way I've handled it so far is to just make things simple. I don't worry about which step your perfect defense should have been activated in (yes, that means step 2 perfects and step 7 perfects are exactly the same), you stunt your whole block of actions as a group, and you declare your defensive stunts when you post your next actions. I roll damage at home usually, as well as any roll too annoying to leave up to the forum roller. It keeps things running.
    Last edited by Kyeudo; 2011-05-30 at 11:54 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    So... I think it was Rose Dragon who recently responded to a comment on akuma by telling me that Terrestrial Akuma cannot use their yozi's reflexive charms as freely as their native charms. This makes sense to me for balance reasons, but at the same time I kind of want it to not be so (given I'm building a terrestrial akuma character). So I'd like to be sure one way or the other.

    I tried looking in the infernals book, the terrestrials book, and the scroll of errata, but nothing leapt out. The closest thing I can find is a sidebar in Errata saying that martial arts reflexives can be used freely. The fact they call martial arts out specifically seems to imply that other charms types cannot, but RAW simply seems to state free reflexives. So a direct quote one way or another would be appreciated. Anyone have a page reference I could use?
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    I'm currently watching an LP of Darksiders; about an hour in now. All I can say is that no one can do better than a coadjutor voiced by Mark Hamill. That's definitely N/A background rating territory.

  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    So... I think it was Rose Dragon who recently responded to a comment on akuma by telling me that Terrestrial Akuma cannot use their yozi's reflexive charms as freely as their native charms. This makes sense to me for balance reasons, but at the same time I kind of want it to not be so (given I'm building a terrestrial akuma character). So I'd like to be sure one way or the other.

    I tried looking in the infernals book, the terrestrials book, and the scroll of errata, but nothing leapt out. The closest thing I can find is a sidebar in Errata saying that martial arts reflexives can be used freely. The fact they call martial arts out specifically seems to imply that other charms types cannot, but RAW simply seems to state free reflexives. So a direct quote one way or another would be appreciated. Anyone have a page reference I could use?
    whoever told you that was correct, you can find the rule in
    Infernals page 102 under Charm Limits
    Dragon-Blooded akuma do not have to pay
    a wrong-aspect one mote surcharge when activating Infernal
    Charms (as these Charms do not have an elemental aspect),
    but neither may they use Reflexive Infernal Charms freely
    without counting as a Charm activation.
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  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by vegetalss4 View Post
    whoever told you that was correct, you can find the rule in
    Infernals page 102 under Charm Limits
    Lovely. Thank you kindly.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    I'm currently watching an LP of Darksiders; about an hour in now. All I can say is that no one can do better than a coadjutor voiced by Mark Hamill. That's definitely N/A background rating territory.
    Hoo ! Tell me where I can get this !
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    Hoo ! Tell me where I can get this !
    Here is Part 1 of the LP that I'm watching. I don't believe he shows up until 3-4 videos into that one, though.

  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Thanks, Mr Hellbunny !

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    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    I wish there were more yozis with statted charmsets. I'd really like Metagaos' official writeup. And then there are other's I'd be happy to see: Qaf, Elloge, Szoreny.

    And I don't want to use homebrew for fear that halfway through a game they'd release ol' Meta and my whole character would be completely invalid.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Well, there are some homebrew Charm sets for some of those. For example, I did a Szoreny Charm set.

  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Well, there are some homebrew Charm sets for some of those. For example, I did a Szoreny Charm set.
    With the Imperfection you've written, I don't think Szoreny can use his own perfect defenses. As a Primordial, he doesn't have dots in abilities.

  14. - Top - End - #374
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    With the Imperfection you've written, I don't think Szoreny can use his own perfect defenses. As a Primordial, he doesn't have dots in abilities.
    I wrote the Charm set before BWC, RotSE, or any of the other "Primordials don't have stats other than Charms" stuff were released.

  15. - Top - End - #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    I wrote the Charm set before BWC, RotSE, or any of the other "Primordials don't have stats other than Charms" stuff were released.
    Ah, okay. That makes sense. Overall, I like it.

  16. - Top - End - #376
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Ah, okay. That makes sense. Overall, I like it.
    Any obvious flaws? Other than the imperfect Imperfection?

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Any obvious flaws? Other than the imperfect Imperfection?
    Well, a charm by charm review as I read through a second time-
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    First Excellency
    I'd like to see a little more. Particularly, stuff that the Excellency definitely cannot apply to. The line "He opposes sudden action, unless it is necessary" seems a bit like a cop out. Akin to, "The Ebon Dragon is a jerk, unless it is necessary that he isn't" - one of the weaknesses of a Primordial is their inability to act against their themes, even when it is rational and necessary.

    Also, the line "imposes his values on others" is kind of out of place. Szoreny is more about accommodating others, having his reflection changed by them, and growing around their plans and ideals, rather than imposing his own.

    ---
    Mythos Exultant
    Seems good.

    ---
    Silver Gardener Spirit
    I like the charm itself. My only wonder is about the prerequisite. On the one hand, it's real convenient for folks who want to go full-Szoreny. On the other, it's prohibitively inconvenient for the Slayer who wants to use it to relax after a hard day's massacre by tending his bonsai plant. I guess its a stylistic choice either way.

    ---
    Seeds of Victory Prana
    This is one of my favorite charms out of the whole set. I definitely want to see some charms branching out from it. Maybe some that deal with Szoreny's unique brand of virtues.

    ---
    Thousand Words Picture
    The way its written, I instantly get a lot of ideas about what my potential Infernal would do with it. However, the prerequisite still makes me a little uncomfortable.

    ---
    Mirrored Meaning Confusion
    I think it's fine, since once someone figures out they're be effected by it, they can effectively negate it by utilizing Bizarro-speak. I think others might say it needs to be beatable via willpower expenditure. I'd disagree, but whatever.

    ---
    Mirror Matches Movement
    It's cool, but a tad bland. Maybe a slight behavioral effect? Like, if you take an action that directly opposes the First Excellency while utilizing a disguise you didn't prepare for ahead of time, you have to make a new disguise check or something goes wrong with your impersonation? I dunno. Just something to think about.

    ---
    Meeting Mirror Deflection
    The imagery is awesome. Honestly, the Imperfection being a little wonky in light of new canon would not inhibit me in the slightest for utilizing the charm set.

    ---
    Mirror-Strike Counter
    My only worry with this is that it's a little too conveniently placed for a Yozi charm tree. Ideally, I think I'd put one other non-defensive Essence 2 or 3 charm between Meeting Mirror Deflection and Mirror-Strike Counter.

    ---
    Shifting Quicksilver Visage
    Small typo. The "Type" should probably read "Reflexive", not "Permanent".

    ---
    Impossible Form Duplication
    Cool, cool.

    ---
    Mirror-Hall Misdirection
    I feel like there should be repurchases that expand the number of duplicates you can make.

    ---
    Shattered Mirror Defense
    This seems like a perfect effect, but its other restrictions make it seem kind of unnecessary to apply the Imperfection of the Silver Forest. I dunno if it's even necessary, but maybe a line about its inability to dodge the undodgeable and its susceptibility to area effects constituting its own kind of imperfection for an otherwise perfect dodge?

    ---
    Same Sword Reflection
    Should this have the Extra-Action keyword?

    ---
    Tree Amidst Forest Camouflage
    This is another charm that I just absolutely love.

    ---
    Lost in Reflection
    I'd like to see an upgrade that has mortals and low-Essence spirits who get reduced to 0 Willpower trying to escape the effects of this charm end up becoming transformed into a First Circle Demon of Szoreny. People losing their individuality and becoming wood sprites, or little spirit-saplings or something sounds cool and thematic to me.

    ---
    Mirror-Maze Navigation
    This is another one with a good effect, but that is kind of bland. It could easily be a Solar Survival charm in its simplicity. Needs something to make it weirder. No ideas off the top of my head.

    ---
    Freed From the Mirror
    I can see a few potential issues with this (continually duplicating the same Soulbreaker Orb, and only detonate the duplicates), but overall it's pretty cool. I know you can't have multiple duplicates of the same object, but can you have duplicates of multiple objects? I don't think it says. Also, does an object or person with a duplicate stop casting a reflection?

    ---
    Wake the Mirror
    Instead of saying "has no Charms", it should probably be "has no supernatural traits" or something like that. Something that also disallows knacks, astrology, etc.

    ---
    Thousand Reflections Legion
    Blarrgh, mass combat D=

    ---
    Image of Greatness Reflection
    You misspelled "Isidoros", and the idea of them being brothers is kinda squicky to me.

    ---
    One Tree Forest
    So, since one Infernal is going to be decked out in artifacts, and the other isn't, it's going to be kinda easy to tell them apart. Maybe allow the Infernal to reflexively activate Freed From the Mirror as an innate ability to duplicate his artifacts onto the reflection (which also go away when a reflection dies)?

    ---
    Quicksilver Sap Transfusion
    No comments really jump out at me, although see the below charm.

    ---
    Unyielding Argent Bark
    Yes. I like seeing other Yozi alternatives to Hardened Devil Body. However, I feel like this should be a prerequisite for Quicksilver Sap Transfusion, rather than the other way around.

    ---
    Subtle Poison Style
    Does activating a poison-defending charm (or something that makes you immune to the ravages of poison) after the poison has been applied, but before (or right as) the delayed effects have activated still negate it?

    Additionally, do you activate the effects of this charm and set the delay when you draw the blood from yourself, when you take the action to poison someone, once you've successfully poisoned them, or what?

    ---
    Haunting Hallucination Infliction
    Maybe as an automatic higher-Essence upgrade, it could allow the Infernal to choose to have their poison deal both normal damage, and cause hallucinations?

    ---


    Not completely done. I still have about 5 pages left, but it's kinda late and I'm goin' to bed. I'll finish tomorrow if you want.

  18. - Top - End - #378
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    So, how weird is it that I want to stat out a daughter of Adorjan?

    It may have something to do with the fact that one of our Green Sun Princes inadverdently led to the creation of one....

  19. - Top - End - #379
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Is there a point on the Essence 1-10 line that an upgrade of Swallowing the Lotus Root that applies to Celestial Martial Arts fits on? Or is it too much..
    He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and can see the turn of the universe. And... he's wonderful.

    "What you do is travel around, pitting your summons against other summoners. This gives you the right to compete in tournaments, and to gain more and more powerful summons.

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  20. - Top - End - #380
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Too much. CMA are just far more applicable, useful, and powerful than TMA.

  21. - Top - End - #381
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by knightMARE View Post
    Is there a point on the Essence 1-10 line that an upgrade of Swallowing the Lotus Root that applies to Celestial Martial Arts fits on? Or is it too much..
    I think if it existed only Sidereals would be able to get it.

    Maybe Solars and Abyssals, although they're closer to "Dragon Blooded learning CMAs" levels of enlightenment so they might not qualify. (DBs can't take Swallowing the Lotus Root after all.)
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    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  22. - Top - End - #382
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by AThousandWords View Post
    Too much. CMA are just far more applicable, useful, and powerful than TMA.
    Even at Essence 9-10, if it was restricted to Solaroids and/or Sidereals?
    He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and can see the turn of the universe. And... he's wonderful.

    "What you do is travel around, pitting your summons against other summoners. This gives you the right to compete in tournaments, and to gain more and more powerful summons.

    Just watch out for evil Team Meteor Swarm, who want to steal your Eidolon for no good reason."
    Mark Hall

  23. - Top - End - #383
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Ess 9-10 is so far along the lines of "hey our game is freeform now" that I don't think it would hugely matter.
    BEEP.

  24. - Top - End - #384
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by knightMARE View Post
    Is there a point on the Essence 1-10 line that an upgrade of Swallowing the Lotus Root that applies to Celestial Martial Arts fits on? Or is it too much..
    This would be a Sidereal thing. Not to 4 XP, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Any obvious flaws? Other than the imperfect Imperfection?
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    1st Excellency

    "However, he values conformity and seeks to impose his values on others."

    "He poisons his foes, either physically or by slowly cutting off their social and mental resources."

    These two lines feel like She Who Lives In Her Name and Kimbery, respectively, not Szoreny.

    I agree with Xefas, "unless it is necessary" is not a line that should be in a Yozi Excellency.

    More minor: "He turns seeming failures into successes." You probably want to rewrite that line or change the emphasis, since that reads as if you could apply the Excellency to every single action ever.

    Also the Excellency, following the format of the others, needs examples and spelling out of what you can't do with it.

    ---

    Mythos Exaltant

    I would need to run the math to make sure, but I think this is okay.

    ---

    Silver Gardener Spirit

    Cool.

    ---

    Seeds of Victory Prana

    This is too good, methinks.

    "Kill my rival."

    You get into a fight with your rival, and attack him four times. You now have those four automatic successes on every single attack roll for free, without a Charm activation, until you actually hit the guy.

    ---

    Thousand Words Picture

    Cool.

    ---

    Mirrored Meaning Confusion

    This probably needs either the Shaping keyword or a UMI tag

    ---

    Mirror Matches Movement

    I like it.

    ---

    Meeting Mirror Deflection

    This should be 4m, in line with other perfect parries. Also should be: "This is a perfect parry that blocks even unblockable attacks."

    The Imperfection is cool. Don't mind the way it interacts with Szoreny himself. Most of the Yozis have Imperfections that interact weirdly with themselves.

    ---

    Mirror-Strike Counter

    Should just be "Reflexive (Step 2)". You declare it then, even if it provides a counterattack.

    Not sure about the balance on this one. Will think on it more.

    ---

    Shifting Quicksilver Visage

    "Szoreny uses no makeup" is a bit of a bwuh line. You might want to reword it, because it sounds kind of silly.

    Otherwise good.

    ---

    Impossible Form Duplication

    Hah. Cool.

    ---

    Mirror-Hall Misdirection

    You probably need to spell out exactly what you can do with the duplicates.

    ---

    Shattered Mirror Defense

    8m for a non-applicability trumping PD is kind of useless. I would suggest just expanding the capabilities of MHM. Also needs an Imperfection of some sort.

    ---

    Same Sword Reflection

    Alright, I think.

    ---

    Tree Amidst Forest Camouflage

    It's "camouflage" with a "u". Also needs a type.

    Cool otherwise.

    ---

    Lost in Reflection

    You should be able to spend Willpower to temporarily ignore the effect.

    ---

    Mirror-Maze Navigation

    "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, find me the deadliest weapon of them all."

    This probably needs a bit of modification so it can only finds things the character knows about. Or something similar.

    ---

    Freed From the Mirror

    Uh. This is kind of broken. Have a soulbreaker orb? Now you have two soulbreaker orbs!

    Really shouldn't work on artifacts. Not to mention how it interacts with disposables.

    ---

    Wake the Mirror

    Again, broken. Duplicating Artifacts is hideously powerful. Also, giving it the same statistics as the original is probably too good.

    ---

    Thousands Reflections Legion

    Same problem as the above.

    ---

    Image of Greatness Reflection

    ^

    Though the base function miiiight be fine.

    ---

    One Tree Forest

    The Infernal deattunes from all of his artifacts, and uses this Charm. His duplicate picks them up, attunes, and now the Infernal goes off to sit in a bunker while his duplicate runs around, because he is now more or less immortal.

    Broken.

    ---

    Quicksilver Sap Transfusion

    I like it.

    ---

    Unyielding Argent Bark

    I'm kind of leery of having two Ox-Bodies in the same Charmset.

    ---

    Subtle Poison Style

    Alright.

    ---

    Haunting Hallucination Infliction

    Cool.

    ---

    Silver Sworn Bond

    It's cool, but I'm not seeing what this has to do with Szorney in a thematic sense.

    ---

    Eyes Like Mirrors Oversight

    Neat.

    ---

    Transcendent Toxin Internalization

    Alright mechanically, I think. I would say it needs to have some sort of drawback or odd change to the Infernal, though, because that's what Infernal permanents are about.

    I'd also say that it shouldn't provide flat mechanical immunity, because Infernal Charms don't do that. They tend to have riders or costs.

    ---

    New Growth Meditation

    Alright.

    ---

    Broken Mirror Mending

    Alright, I think.

    ---

    Bitter Medicine

    Hmmmmm. Could be potent, but I think it's fine.

    What happens, though, when you combine this with Broken Mirror Mending? This Charm's duration is probably shorter then it takes to heal a Crippling injury. If someone's arm gets chopped off and they start regrowing it through this, when the duration runs out, do they just have a half-formed arm, or what?

    ---

    Rooted In Reality

    Infernals don't have IPP for a reason, because that's not how their Charm design works. You can have a Shaping defense, but it needs to be something weird, not just flat-out immunity as long as you commit the motes.

    ---

    Silver Branch Immunity

    Everyone within 45 feet of you (minimum) gets IPP for free? This is probably overpowered.

    ---

    Mirrored Intentions

    Okay, I think.

    ---

    In the Master's Image

    Cool. Why Integrity, though?

    ---

    Into the Looking Glass

    Okay, I think.

    ---

    Frozen Reflection Mirror

    Kind of leery of something that lasts forever and ever, but it's okay, I think.

    ---

    Color-Music Melody

    Blinding everyone miiiiiiight be too good, but I think it's okay.

    ---

    False Truth Reflection

    ...why Larceny? Seems kind of odd.

    ---

    Mirror-Madness Malediction

    Um. Good, but I'm not sure if it's overpowered. It shouldn't be permanent for Exalted, though (perhaps inflicting Limit?).

    ---

    Silver-Soothed Sanity

    Alright, I think.

    ---

    Sorcerous Enlightenment of Szoreny

    Fine, I think. Don't like the duplication of another Yozi's flaw, though. Make something thematically unique.


    Also, there's no shintai. You must hate fun.

    Overall, I like it. I would probably have not focused on the poison so much, but you wrote this before Kimbery Charms came out, so it's understandable.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Well, a charm by charm review as I read through a second time-
    <snip>
    Not completely done. I still have about 5 pages left, but it's kinda late and I'm goin' to bed. I'll finish tomorrow if you want.
    Thanks for taking the time. Feedback of any kind to something I've homebrewed is always appreciated.

    Some repsonses:
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    First Excellency
    I'd like to see a little more. Particularly, stuff that the Excellency definitely cannot apply to. The line "He opposes sudden action, unless it is necessary" seems a bit like a cop out. Akin to, "The Ebon Dragon is a jerk, unless it is necessary that he isn't" - one of the weaknesses of a Primordial is their inability to act against their themes, even when it is rational and necessary.
    I was meaning the line more to allow Szoreny to help in the execution of his own plans. You know, Ocean's Eleven style. You spend a long time planning the caper, then its a half hour of running around crazy doing lots of sudden, intense action. An Infernal shouldn't get sidelined just because he took Szoreny's Excellency.

    Also, the line "imposes his values on others" is kind of out of place. Szoreny is more about accommodating others, having his reflection changed by them, and growing around their plans and ideals, rather than imposing his own.
    To answer where I got that line from:
    Quote Originally Posted by Compass of Celestial Directions: Malfeas
    Its many trunks met together and held fast the lands where it grew, giving them consistency but reflecting onto those who dwelled there Szoreny's particular ideas of order and aesthetics.
    Basically, spending too much time around Szoreny makes you start thinking like Szoreny.

    Silver Gardener Spirit
    I like the charm itself. My only wonder is about the prerequisite. On the one hand, it's real convenient for folks who want to go full-Szoreny. On the other, it's prohibitively inconvenient for the Slayer who wants to use it to relax after a hard day's massacre by tending his bonsai plant. I guess its a stylistic choice either way.
    I just couldn't think of a better Szoreny Charm as a prerequisite. Maybe something growing out from Quicksilver Sap Transfusion could work, but I can't think of one that is particularly appropriate as a stepping off point.

    Seeds of Victory Prana
    This is one of my favorite charms out of the whole set. I definitely want to see some charms branching out from it. Maybe some that deal with Szoreny's unique brand of virtues.
    I'm in agreement that something should come after Seeds of Victory Prana, but I can't ever think of something concrete to grow out of it. It's sort of hard to top "You will eventually win in any extended contest".

    Thousand Words Picture
    The way its written, I instantly get a lot of ideas about what my potential Infernal would do with it. However, the prerequisite still makes me a little uncomfortable.
    It's again more a "I couldn't think of a better prerequiste" thing than a stylistic choice. I'd love to open this one up.

    Mirror Matches Movement
    It's cool, but a tad bland. Maybe a slight behavioral effect? Like, if you take an action that directly opposes the First Excellency while utilizing a disguise you didn't prepare for ahead of time, you have to make a new disguise check or something goes wrong with your impersonation? I dunno. Just something to think about.
    I'm of the school of thought that since Szoreny is the ultimate mirror, he shouldn't need a week of watching to be able to mirror you.

    I'm also of the school of thought that believes any drawback a Yozi Charm imposes on you should be a natural outgrowth from the Charm's effect. Being able to see in darkness makes it harder to see in the light.

    Mirror-Strike Counter
    My only worry with this is that it's a little too conveniently placed for a Yozi charm tree. Ideally, I think I'd put one other non-defensive Essence 2 or 3 charm between Meeting Mirror Deflection and Mirror-Strike Counter.
    I think you've got a point there. How about Impossible Form Duplication as an additional prerequisite?

    Mirror-Hall Misdirection
    I feel like there should be repurchases that expand the number of duplicates you can make.
    It already gives (Essence) duplicates. How many more do you need?

    Shattered Mirror Defense
    This seems like a perfect effect, but its other restrictions make it seem kind of unnecessary to apply the Imperfection of the Silver Forest. I dunno if it's even necessary, but maybe a line about its inability to dodge the undodgeable and its susceptibility to area effects constituting its own kind of imperfection for an otherwise perfect dodge?
    Consider this: It costs 8 motes to defend this way. That's almost as much as Duck Fate - a true perfect. So, not only does it have some flaws, but it's expensive. I don't want to try and act like this is a true perfect defense when it's never going to see major use in any paranoia combat suite.

    Actually, I may want to increase the surcharge a bit and make it just as expensive as Duck Fate. The side effect of now being near impossible to target is worth quite alot.

    Same Sword Reflection
    Should this have the Extra-Action keyword?
    Rain of Feathered Death isn't an Extra-Action Charm.

    Mirror-Maze Navigation
    This is another one with a good effect, but that is kind of bland. It could easily be a Solar Survival charm in its simplicity. Needs something to make it weirder. No ideas off the top of my head.
    You're right. I think I threw this one in only as a counter-agent to Lost in Reflection. Wouldn't do to have Szoreny get lost in himself, now would it?

    Freed From the Mirror
    I can see a few potential issues with this (continually duplicating the same Soulbreaker Orb, and only detonate the duplicates), but overall it's pretty cool. I know you can't have multiple duplicates of the same object, but can you have duplicates of multiple objects? I don't think it says. Also, does an object or person with a duplicate stop casting a reflection?
    Nothing in the Charm prevents you from using it concurrently on different objects. Currently, things so duplicated still retain their reflections, although that would be an interesting non-obvious effect to attach.

    I think the main problem that you identify there is more an issue with one-shot artifacts in general. Any suggestions on how to close it as a loophole? Or just stick the Chicanery-No keyword on it?

    Wake the Mirror
    Instead of saying "has no Charms", it should probably be "has no supernatural traits" or something like that. Something that also disallows knacks, astrology, etc.
    Supernatural traits includes Essence, Destiny, and so on. I'd actually like to leave most of those intact.

    Image of Greatness Reflection
    You misspelled "Isidoros", and the idea of them being brothers is kinda squicky to me.
    The books name them as brothers. In point of fact, all of the Primordials are usually refered to as siblings of one sort or another.

    One Tree Forest
    So, since one Infernal is going to be decked out in artifacts, and the other isn't, it's going to be kinda easy to tell them apart. Maybe allow the Infernal to reflexively activate Freed From the Mirror as an innate ability to duplicate his artifacts onto the reflection (which also go away when a reflection dies)?
    This Charm should really be up long before combat begins. Distribution of artifacts should have already happened.

    Unyielding Argent Bark
    Yes. I like seeing other Yozi alternatives to Hardened Devil Body. However, I feel like this should be a prerequisite for Quicksilver Sap Transfusion, rather than the other way around.
    I don't see forcing every Szoreny-favoring Infernal into buying two health levels being a good idea. The cascade builds on Quicksilver Sap Transfusion, not Unyielding Argent Bark.

    Subtle Poison Style
    Does activating a poison-defending charm (or something that makes you immune to the ravages of poison) after the poison has been applied, but before (or right as) the delayed effects have activated still negate it?
    Good question. I'd say yes personally, as that seems the most balanced approach.

    Additionally, do you activate the effects of this charm and set the delay when you draw the blood from yourself, when you take the action to poison someone, once you've successfully poisoned them, or what?
    The idea is that you can change the delay any time before the blood is drawn. Already drawn doses stay at the same time delay as when they were drawn. I should clarify this.

    Haunting Hallucination Infliction
    Maybe as an automatic higher-Essence upgrade, it could allow the Infernal to choose to have their poison deal both normal damage, and cause hallucinations?
    Wait, you want to kill someone and change their mind at the same time? What purpose does that serve?

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    re: Freed From the Mirror
    How about, if the duplicated item is not a creature, if one of them is destroyed, so is the other?

    re: Celestial Swallowing the Lotus Root
    I can't find it now, but I recall there being a pretty interesting charm idea on the WW forums that involved a general martial arts charm with Swallowing the Lotus Root as a prerequisite that gave a steadily increasing experience discount on Celestial Martial Arts based on how many you've already mastered.

    It was something like, if you've mastered one, you get a 1xp discount. If you've mastered three, you get a 2xp discount, all the way to like, if you've mastered sixteen, you get a 6xp discount. I liked that approach.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    re: Freed From the Mirror
    How about, if the duplicated item is not a creature, if one of them is destroyed, so is the other?

    re: Celestial Swallowing the Lotus Root
    I can't find it now, but I recall there being a pretty interesting charm idea on the WW forums that involved a general martial arts charm with Swallowing the Lotus Root as a prerequisite that gave a steadily increasing experience discount on Celestial Martial Arts based on how many you've already mastered.

    It was something like, if you've mastered one, you get a 1xp discount. If you've mastered three, you get a 2xp discount, all the way to like, if you've mastered sixteen, you get a 6xp discount. I liked that approach.
    I think that post was lost when the White-Wolf forums decided to use Avoidance Kata.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by vegetalss4 View Post
    I think that post was lost when the White-Wolf forums decided to use Avoidance Kata.
    I see.

    Also,
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Wait, you want to kill someone and change their mind at the same time?
    Yes.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    It wasn't a Charm, it was a discussion on what it would do if it existed, iirc.
    Because lots of people that see StLR think "Hey, if there is one for TMA, there should be one for CMA." Sort of like Autochthonian-element DBs, or an Exalt type that can Attune to Adamant.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Thanks for taking the time. Feedback of any kind to something I've homebrewed is always appreciated.
    ...I don't get any love?

    Anyway, some responses to your responses.

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    I was meaning the line more to allow Szoreny to help in the execution of his own plans. You know, Ocean's Eleven style. You spend a long time planning the caper, then its a half hour of running around crazy doing lots of sudden, intense action. An Infernal shouldn't get sidelined just because he took Szoreny's Excellency.
    To be blunt, yes, yes he totally should get sidelined. It's not "Malfeas can't be subtle except when he has to be and then it's fine" it's "Malfeas can't be subtle, fullstop". An Excellency encourages you to act like the Yozi by placing hard restrictions on the sort of actions you can enhance with it.

    Besides this, it doesn't sideline them, it just prevents them from using the Excellency. And Yozi Excellencies are pretty much designed for stunting. You can't enhance "I punch him in the face" with a Szoreny Excellency, but you can enhance "I carefully lead him into a position where he's vulnerable, and then strike".

    I'm in agreement that something should come after Seeds of Victory Prana, but I can't ever think of something concrete to grow out of it. It's sort of hard to top "You will eventually win in any extended contest".
    Still waiting on that Shintai.

    It's again more a "I couldn't think of a better prerequiste" thing than a stylistic choice. I'd love to open this one up.
    Stick it behind New Growth Meditation? That seems appropriate.

    I'm of the school of thought that since Szoreny is the ultimate mirror, he shouldn't need a week of watching to be able to mirror you.
    Consider this: It costs 8 motes to defend this way. That's almost as much as Duck Fate - a true perfect. So, not only does it have some flaws, but it's expensive. I don't want to try and act like this is a true perfect defense when it's never going to see major use in any paranoia combat suite.

    Actually, I may want to increase the surcharge a bit and make it just as expensive as Duck Fate. The side effect of now being near impossible to target is worth quite alot.
    I missed that effect of that Charm.

    ...that might be too good.

    Rain of Feathered Death isn't an Extra-Action Charm.
    This Charm is also flatly better then RoFD, since you can use it with any sort of attack, not just Archery attacks.

    I think the main problem that you identify there is more an issue with one-shot artifacts in general. Any suggestions on how to close it as a loophole? Or just stick the Chicanery-No keyword on it?
    No, that's an issue because duplicating artifacts is broken as hell and should never be in the game. Also, while Chicanery-No is a valid thing, idiotproofing to make less work for the ST is something to strive for.

    Supernatural traits includes Essence, Destiny, and so on. I'd actually like to leave most of those intact.
    This is broken as all get-out. Kill it with fire.

    Wait, you want to kill someone and change their mind at the same time? What purpose does that serve?
    There is a Charm in Infernals that literally does that exact thing, sooooooo.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-06-01 at 06:00 PM.
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