General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

[Kylarra]

It's okay, they're a part of the whole and they understand that since you are a part of the whole, that makes you the whole, which means that you are also them, and thus you are okay with your delusions of grandiosity, because otherwise you wouldn't be having those delusions in the first place.

[golentan]

Yeah... This falls so squarely into that age old fallacy, I don't even have to give a description of why. Fallacy of Composition, read up please. Heck, the example given could exchange "souls" for cells and "primordial" for human and nearly be the argument.

Auto-kun is weird in that we know his fetich (the core) actually does serve as his mind, a situation we don't find among other primordials to the best of my knowledge. But other than that, it's very hard to say that any of his souls are more him than component organs or cells or the like. Basically, they are him, but he is not them.

[Gensh]

Auto-kun is weird in that we know his fetich (the core) actually does serve as his mind, a situation we don't find among other primordials to the best of my knowledge. But other than that, it's very hard to say that any of his souls are more him than component organs or cells or the like. Basically, they are him, but he is not them.

I'd imagine (ignoring that it's probably writer error anyway) that the reason why it's like that is because it was more efficient for him to partition his thoughts in such a manner. He's sick, probably a little irritable, and too busy to put up with his souls arguing with each other, so he just cuts most of them out of the loop entirely.

[Tavar]

Well, there's the fact that the current rules for Primordial are more like guidelines; yeah, they all have a fetich, except the Empheral Chaos, who had 2. Plus, Holden has said that Gaia wasn't exactly going to follow the rules, either. This method was eventually scrapped in favor of something completely different, but he's said that at one point a full stat-up of Gaia was going to be in Broken Winged Crane. In it, she didn't have a fetich. Instead, she had this weird balance, where each of the Elemental Dragons took on some of that responsibility, giving her a chaotic, unsettled nature. This was was also why she didn't make exalted herself; her nature was too much in flux to properly do it. Instead, her much more stable and cohesive 3rd circle souls we know as the Elemental Dragons did it.

[Turalisj]

Other wise, we'd have Celestial level Dragon-Bloods equal in power to the Solars, but as wild and chaotic as a casteless Lunar and able to bend the elements to their wills....

[golentan]

Other wise, we'd have Celestial level Dragon-Bloods equal in power to the Solars, but as wild and chaotic as a casteless Lunar and able to bend the elements to their wills....

I have no problem with this plan. *nods*

[Gensh]

Well, there's the fact that the current rules for Primordial are more like guidelines; yeah, they all have a fetich, except the Empheral Chaos, who had 2. Plus, Holden has said that Gaia wasn't exactly going to follow the rules, either. This method was eventually scrapped in favor of something completely different, but he's said that at one point a full stat-up of Gaia was going to be in Broken Winged Crane. In it, she didn't have a fetich. Instead, she had this weird balance, where each of the Elemental Dragons took on some of that responsibility, giving her a chaotic, unsettled nature. This was was also why she didn't make exalted herself; her nature was too much in flux to properly do it. Instead, her much more stable and cohesive 3rd circle souls we know as the Elemental Dragons did it.

Huh. I always assumed that she didn't make Exalted herself because Sol is the ultimate liar. That sounds sort of like a cop-out, honestly. I mean, sure, there's a history of nature gods with multiple personalities, but having no fetich makes about as much sense as having two. I'm going to assume the logic was destroyed during the Three Spheres Cataclysm.

[Qaera]

Man, all the Primordials sure are Unique Special Snowflakes.

[Tavar]

Huh. I always assumed that she didn't make Exalted herself because Sol is the ultimate liar.

What? What does Sol have to do with this?

That sounds sort of like a cop-out, honestly. I mean, sure, there's a history of nature gods with multiple personalities, but having no fetich makes about as much sense as having two. I'm going to assume the logic was destroyed during the Three Spheres Cataclysm.

How so? I thought the specifics of what exactly a primordial requires are still pretty vague.

[Indon]

Someone needs to start up a high level, DBZ style action game...

"Little do you know, but I have developed Hyper-Terrestrial Martial Arts, which allow me to defeat even Celestial-level Exalts!"

"You fool. I don't practice Sidereal Martial Arts... I practice Stage 3 Omni-Sidereal Martial Arts! KYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

[TheCountAlucard]

Of course, you need to have Mask of Winters bragging about the super attack he deployed that will destroy all of Creation in five minutes... and have him do it for eight sessions straight.

Also, spend a solid three sessions with the circle supposedly fighting Mask of Winters by standing around in one place, all while saying how imperative it is that they must save Creation.

Plus, have the circle and Mask both agree to give this fight their all, and then reveal that Mask of Winters has been avoiding using his arms for that whole segment of fight.

[tonberrian]

Of course, you need to have Mask of Winters bragging about the super attack he deployed that will destroy all of Creation in five minutes... and have him do it for eight sessions straight.

Also, spend a solid three sessions with the circle supposedly fighting Mask of Winters by standing around in one place, all while saying how imperative it is that they must save Creation.

Plus, have the circle and Mask both agree to give this fight their all, and then reveal that Mask of Winters has been avoiding using his arms for that whole segment of fight.

So how is this different than normal Exalted?

[TheCountAlucard]

So how is this different than normal Exalted?

...

[Turalisj]

Hey now, that all was the original smoke

The new one is a lot shorter with no filler.

I was thinking more like a high action game.

[tonberrian]

...

white

[Lix Lorn]

I'm going to assume the logic was destroyed during the Three Spheres Cataclysm.

It's Exalted. That would actually make a lot of sense.
"We now rule the world. LOL SCIENCE!"
"Our bosses need an intervention. KILL MAIM BURN!"
"So, our ex-bosses are coming back without the madness... KILL THEM IN CASE!"
"So, we're trapped in hell/notquitedeath. What do we use to get out? THE THINGS THAT KILLED US WITH A NEW PAINT JOB!"

TOTALLY logical.

[TheCountAlucard]

The new one is a lot shorter with no filler.

I disagree; it still has plenty of filler, ESPECIALLY during the fight scenes.

Oh, I forgot something: the PCs spend multiple sessions traveling to Nexus, only to come across a fake Nexus inhabited by Fair Folk who want to steal their artifact airship.

[Xefas]

"So, we're trapped in hell/notquitedeath. What do we use to get out? THE THINGS THAT KILLED US WITH A NEW PAINT JOB!"

Spoiler

Show

[Turalisj]

I disagree; it still has plenty of filler, ESPECIALLY during the fight scenes.

Oh, I forgot something: the PCs spend multiple sessions traveling to Nexus, only to come across a fake Nexus inhabited by Fair Folk who want to steal their artifact airship.

Again, a ton of filler was cut. This includes the episodes where they meet the mirror ship, land on faux-namek, and almost all the parts of Goku in space.

And seeing how anime helped influence a lot of Exalted, there isn't much to change. It sounds more like you simply don't like DBZ and nothing I say will change that.

[Gensh]

What? What does Sol have to do with this?

How so? I thought the specifics of what exactly a primordial requires are still pretty vague.

Glories: Luna, while possibly written in that way to depict Luna as somewhat paranoid, says that pretty much no one other than her likes Gaia and are actually afraid of her. I'm assuming this would include Sol since the Geas would still make him subservient to her, and he doesn't have an army of Exalts to back him up anymore. When it came time to power up the blank Exaltations back in the day, I don't have any trouble believing he would use his perfectness to convince Gaia to make inferior ones.

As far as the fetich situation goes, it's supposed to be the single most defining element of a Primordial, so much so that killing it reshapes the whole thing into something else entirely. Gaia not having one both doesn't make sense in that something most certainly is her most defining feature, even if it's specifically that her most defining feature is a constant state of flux; even Oramus has a fetich.

As far as the Empyreal Chaos goes, they're just saying he's a +1 Primordial; I doubt there was any thought behind it.

TOTALLY logical.

Spoiler

Show

"Nice try, but my head was built with paradox-absorbing crumple zones."

I like to imagine that Santa ghost-writes for Exalted.

[Incendius]

Glories: Luna, while possibly written in that way to depict Luna as somewhat paranoid, says that pretty much no one other than her likes Gaia and are actually afraid of her. I'm assuming this would include Sol since the Geas would still make him subservient to her, and he doesn't have an army of Exalts to back him up anymore. When it came time to power up the blank Exaltations back in the day, I don't have any trouble believing he would use his perfectness to convince Gaia to make inferior ones.

Actually Sol has an intimacy towards Gaia of Kindness, so I doubt he would react like that. Fittingly he also as an intimacy of Pity towards Autochthon.

[TheCountAlucard]

It sounds more like you simply don't like DBZ and nothing I say will change that.

I disagree; it's not that I don't like DBZ - what I dislike is that if I decide to sit down and watch Goku fight Freiza, it's going to take hours.

[Turalisj]

I disagree; it's not that I don't like DBZ - what I dislike is that if I decide to sit down and watch Goku fight Freiza, it's going to take hours.

The fight against Freiza was (originally) the final battle of the series. How long does it take for a high level Exalt to fight the big bad in a game?

[Kylarra]

I disagree; it's not that I don't like DBZ - what I dislike is that if I decide to sit down and watch Goku fight Freiza, it's going to take hours.

That is oddly reminiscent of every single Exalted combat that I've been in, excluding surprise OHKOs.

[TheCountAlucard]

How long does it take for a high level Exalt to fight the big bad in a game?

That's an interesting question.

Let's see, how about when our group took on the Mask of Winters, and all his undead forces, and his Abyssals, and Juggernaut? That took one session.

Unless you're referring to the amount of actual time we spent in combat with Mask of Winters. THAT took about two minutes.

[Tavar]

How long was the session?

Also, was this the canon mask of winters, or a homebrewed one?

[TheCountAlucard]

How long was the session?

Several hours, but such can be likened to taking on the Ginyu Force, all of Frieza's lesser minions, and Frieza himself in six episodes.

Also, was this the canon mask of winters, or a homebrewed one?

No clue; I'm no longer on what could be called the "best of terms" with that ST.

[Turalisj]

Checking the wiki, the Namek saga took about 35 episodes from the time the blasted off from earth to the wrap up episode. That's an entire "story" for a game of Exalted.

[golentan]

Assuming it's about 20 minutes per episode (which seems fairly standard nowadays once you strip out ad time and the intro/extro), that's about 700 minutes all told, or 12 hours. That's about 3-4 sessions for my groups. Meh.

[Turalisj]

Compare the original cut where Namek took 70 episodes. I'd call that a significant cut.