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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default The Peerless Archer [3.5 Base Class, P.E.A.C.H. - revival!]

    Okay so enough with trying to fit mechanics to Archer. I am going to bring Archer to mechanics!

    I'm aware that a bunch of the abilities are a bit heavy-handed in their wording. I forced this out like a long poop :c

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Archers have the following game statistics.
    Abilities: Dexterity provide damage, but only if you have enough strength to wield a powerful bow. WISDOM and INTELLIGENCE are both important.

    Alignment: Archers are best suited towards the Neutral and Lawful alignments, favoring patience, and acting on a big-picture agenda. There are, of course, as many exceptions as there are those who follow the stereotype.

    Hit Die: D4
    Starting Age: As Paladin
    Starting Gold: As Ranger

    Table: Archer
    {table=head]Level|Fort|Ref|Will|
    Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    | Shooter Man

    2nd|
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |So Ranged

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Threatening Archery

    4th|
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Flecher

    5th|
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Craft Magic Projectiles

    6th|
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Deadly Aim

    7th|
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Frustrating Shot

    8th|
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Improved Sniping

    9th|
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Woodcraft

    10th|
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Exhibitionist

    11th|
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Extreme Range

    12th|
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Ranged Combat Maneuver

    13th|
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Hide in Plain Sight

    14th|
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Renowned Exhibitionist

    15th|
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Shredding Shot

    16th|
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Keen Eyes

    17th|
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Blot out the Sun

    18th|
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | Legendary Exhibitionist

    19th|
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | Shoot the Moon

    20th|
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    | Peerless Archer
    [/table]

    Skill Points: (4 + Int modifier) per level, x4 at first level.

    Class Skills: The Archerís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex),
    Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate, Listen (Wis),
    Knowledge: Arcana, Nature, Religion (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int),
    Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Unless stated otherwise, all abilities are (Ex) effects, and all attack modifiers only affect
    ranged attacks.

    Proficiencies: The Archer gains proficiency with Simple weapons and Ranged Martial
    Weapons, Light armour, and Bucklers. The Archer gains proficiency with all Ranged Weapons,
    Exotic or not.

    Level 1: Shooter Man (Su)
    Archers do not roll to-hit. Each round, as a full-attack action, they may make 1 attack that
    counts as having defeated the target's AC. Archer levels cannot select feats requiring BAB,
    and cannot gain additional attacks from sources other than Archer class features. At level 6,
    11, 16 and 20, the Archer's Full attack gains an additional attack that does not roll to-hit, and
    counts as having defeated its target's AC. These attacks must be made with a Bow or
    Crossbow, and do not affect other Ranged attacks such as Spells, throwing weapons, or
    Special Abilities. These attacks otherwise follow the normal rules for concealment, damage,
    range, etc.

    Additionally, Archers add their Dexterity Modifier to damage with bows and crossbows when
    making ranged attacks. The Archer suffers no penalties to shooting an adjacent target, and
    does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity for doing so. Conversely, for each number of Range
    Increments equal to their weapon's Critical Modifier (x2, x3, etc.), the Archer suffers a -1
    penalty to damage rolls made with Bows and Crossbows. Archers never threaten Critical Hits
    with bows or crossbows, or with any attack using this class feature.

    If this ability would be negated (via Antimagic or similar ability), instead it functions as normal
    up to 5 Range Increments. Beyond this range, the Archer makes attacks as normal, with
    Archer Levels contributing poor BAB to the Attack Bonus.

    If the Archer would attack an enemy more than 1000 feet away, the attack takes 1 round of
    travel time to reach its destination, and suffers a miss chance of 5% for each 100 feet beyond
    1000. As well, Enemies moving more than 200 feet per round at these ranges gain an
    additional 30% miss chance.

    Variant: Dual-CrossBow / Manyshot Archer
    When wielding 2 1-handed or light (or a 1-handed and a light) crossbows, the Archer may
    attack with both once each round as a full-attack action, reloading as a free action in between
    shots while both hands are otherwise unengaged - the Archer must reload normally if their
    hands would become occupied with something else. Alternatively, the Archer may choose to
    knock and fire 2 arrows at once when wielding a bow. At levels 6, 11, 16, and 20, the Archer
    may make an additional attack with both in their full-attack action. These attacks each gain
    only half the Archer's Dexterity Modifier to their damage, and have only 5 range increments of
    15 feet (75 feet total range).

    Level 2: So Ranged
    At 2nd level, the Archer's range increment with any Ranged Weapon doubles, before any
    other modifiers. If this is combined with a similar effect, the cumulative effect is x3, as usual
    when stacking multipliers. This does not apply to thrown weapons because the Archer does
    not use throwing weapons, it uses bows and crossbows.

    Level 3: Threatening Archery
    At 3th level, the Archer threatens Attacks of Opportunity out to a range 15 feet with a wielded
    Bow or Crossbow. At 5th level, and every 2 levels after, this range increases by 10 feet (25 at
    5, 35 at 7, 45 at 9, etc.).

    Level 4: Fletcher
    Archers are incredibly quick at creating arrows, and often do so in their spare time. In addition
    to the allotted 8 hours per day for crafting, an Archer may craft arrows or bolts exclusively for
    4 extra hours. Archers gain a +1 competence bonus to Craft when they craft arrows, bolts,
    bows, or crossbows of any type.

    Level 5: Craft Magical Projectiles
    The Archer gains the Craft: Magic Arms and Armour feat, but may only use it to enhance Bows,
    Crossbows, and Ammunition for each. When crafting ammunition, an Archer may ignore the xp
    cost by doubling the crafting time and spending additional 1gp per xp ignored. The Archer
    must embark on a side quest in order to research the desired enhancements, be it studying a
    mage's spells or observing magic in nature.

    Level 6: Deadly Aim
    On your action, before you attack with a full-attack, you may choose to subtract a number of
    attacks from your full-attack action, to a minimum of 1. For each attack subtracted this way,
    add the damage of that attack to the damage of your remaining attacks, spread out as evenly
    as possible (rounding down).

    Example: Mary, a 10th level Archer, has 3 attacks with her Composite Longbow, 1D8+5
    damage from Dexterity and enhancements.She sacrifices 1 attack, and rolls the damage for it -
    an 11. She divides this damage amongst the other two, granting +5 to each. The remaining
    damage is split, and lost.

    When using the Dual-Crossbow or Manyshot variant, the minimum attacks that can be made is
    2 (1 from each weapon if Dual-Crossbow, 1 from each many-shot arrow), and each weapon's
    or arrow's attacks gain bonus damage only from attacks it has sacrificed.

    Level 7: Frustrating Shot
    If the Archer successfully attacks a target, that target count as being flanked by the Archer
    until the beginning of the Archer's next turn.

    Level 8: Improved Sniping
    When attacking a target unaware of its location from at least 5 range increments away, for
    each range increment beyond the 5th the Archer adds a cumulative +5 Sniping bonus to its
    hide check to remain concealed. The Archer may make a hide check to remain concealed after
    making a full attack, if it sacrifices all of its available attacks to Deadly Aim, and the target is
    unaware of the Archer's location.

    When using the Dual-Crossbow or Manyshot variant, this becomes Fusillade . Once per
    encounter, the Archer may make an additional Full Attack on a turn in which it has already
    made a Full Attack. The Archer must attack the same targets with the Fusillade as it did with its
    first Full Attack, even if this would mean attacking a downed or dead target.

    Level 9: Woodcraft
    The Archer gains a +1 competency bonus to survival checks made to find crafting materials for
    bows, crossbows, or ammunition for either.

    Level 10: Exhibitionist:
    The Archer may perform a feat of stunning archery as part of a Full-round Action Intimidate or
    Perform(Archery) check. If this attack hits and deals damage, substitute the result Damage Roll
    for the result of the Intimidation or Perform(Archery) check.

    If this attack is against an opponent during or before the First Round of Combat, opponents
    who fail WILL against 10+1/2 Archer Level+CHA suffer a -2 Morale Penalty to Attack and
    Damage rolls, Saves vs. Fear effects, and CHA-based Skill Checks for 2 rounds. Only opponents
    that witnessed the Archer perform this stunt are affected. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

    When using the Dual-Crossbow or Manyshot variant, the Archer must destroy an object with
    at least 50 HP, or deal at least 50 damage to an opponent.

    Level 11: Extreme Range
    At 11th level, and every 4 levels afterward (15, 19), the Archer's ranged attacks extend an
    additional 5 range increments (15 at 11, 20 at 15, and 25 at 19). The penalty to Damage rolls
    with Bows and Crossbows is halved.

    When using the Dual-Crossbow or Manyshot variant, the Archer instead adds 1 extra attack to
    their full attack at each interval.

    Level 12: Ranged Combat Maneuvers
    You gain Ranged Pin, Ranged Trip, and Ranged Disarm. If you already have these abilities, or
    gain them later, you gain a +4 bonus to the opposed roll. You also now count as having Full
    BAB for the purpose of these rolls.

    Level 13: Hide in Plain Sight
    As the Ranger Ability of the same name.

    Level 14: Renowned Exhibitionist
    The penalties against opponents from Exhibitionist increase to -4. Opponents who gain these
    penalties are Shaken. If Exhibitionist was used as a Perform(Archery) ability, increase the
    result of the check by +2.

    Level 15: Shredding Shot
    The Archer's attacks are fired in such a way as to shred through resistances. Each attack after
    the first against a target in the same round ignores a cumulative 2 points of hardness, DR, or
    other damage-reducing resistance. When attacking through effects such as Walls of Wind or
    Force Walls, each attack goes 20 feet further than the last, but suffers half damage should it
    hit (this damage reduction also being reduced by the Shredding Shot effect). This ability
    ignores an additional point of reduction, and allows attacks to travel an additional 10 feet
    beyond effects such as Wall of Wind or Force Wall for each level beyond 15th (3 points of
    reduction and 30 feet per attack at 16th, 4 and 40 at 17th, etc.).

    Level 16: Keen Eyes
    The Archer gains a +20 insight bonus to Spot and Search checks, and suffers no distance
    penalty to Spot checks.

    Level 17: Blot out the Sun
    As a Full-Round action that leaves the Archer exhausted, the Archer may choose - and make a
    single attack against - up to 20 targets within its maximum range. For each enemy beyond the
    5th, the Archer takes 3 points of HP damage at the end of its turn. If the Archer is immune to
    Exhaustion, it instead takes 5 points of HP damage for every enemy beyond the 5th, and
    cannot Blot out the Sun for 1D3 hours. The Archer may not Blot out the Sun while suffering a
    negative status such as Fatigued, Sickened, Frightened, etc.

    Level 18: Legendary Exhibitionist
    The penalties against opponents from Exhibitionist increase to -6. As well, allies that witness
    the stunt gain a +2 Morale bonus to Attack and Damage Rolls, and Saves vs Fear effects for
    duration. Everyone gains a +5 Reputation bonus to Spot Checks made to witness the Archer's
    stunt.

    level 19: Shoot the Moon
    The Archer's ranged attacks with bows and crossbows fly swifter than any wind, farther than
    any ship. The Archer's attacks with these weapons hit any creature within 3000 feet on the
    same turn they're fired, and suffer no miss chance for distance or creature speed. Additionally,
    they are unhindered by winds (magical or nonmagical).

    Level 20: Peerless Archer
    The Archer's exploits and abilities are legendary. The Archer's ranged attacks with bows and
    crossbows do not suffer miss chances against any target. The Archer may make a single attack
    with a bow or crossbow against any target within twice its maximum range as a full-round
    action. The Archer takes no penalties when sniping,
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2013-03-27 at 02:00 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Another Archer [WIP, P.E.A.C.H. <3]

    BLERGH.

    Credits
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    Credits go to people who made this class better than anything I could have produced on my own - be it through pointing out serious flaws in mechanics, or offering far better wordings for abilities. My thanks to them :D

    MageofMystra - Thanks to whom a massive overhaul and inclusion of called shots was made possible, and from whom many encouraging words did flow. Also, thanks for allowing it to be run in your game :D I can't wait to slay me some corrupt dragon scum!

    Lyndworm - Thanks to whom the Sniper's Path was greatly improved, both mechanically and conceptually, and from whom many encouraging words did flow.

    Elfstone - Thanks to whom the Sniper has Hide in Plain Sight, a much needed addition, and from whom many encouraging words did flow.

    Gardner - Thanks to whom many balancing adjustments were made, Forceful Shot was made viable, and from whom many encouraging words did flow.

    Dryad - Thanks to whom the Exhibitionist ability was clarified and reworked, as it was broken until she came along, and from whom many encouraging words did flow.



    Comments
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    BLERGH


    Changelog
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    1. Posted: May 18, 11:11PM PST, 2011

    2. Updates: May 18-19, 11:37PM-2AM PST, 2011 Added the Class Picture, added Alignment, Background, Capabilities, etc., updated format somewhat. Added scaling penalty vs. AC on Chink in the Armor. Added capstone (Intentionally weak, will improve as I round out the class), created limited ranged AoO generation class feature. Thinking of replacing Fighter Bonus Feats with Bonus Feat List, to reduce requirements and make the class flow better. Comments added.

    3. Moar updates: May 19, 6AM PST, 2011 swapped out AoO's and bonus feats for Archer Paths, similar to Ranger styles.

    4. Updates: May 20, 10:36AM PST, 2011 - Some slight changes to Sniper path, large changes to Chink in the Armor and Precision Shooting. More content and changes to come as I address obvious issues and fill in dead levels. Filled in a couple more paths, edited and cleaned up Precision Shooter, added Precision Shooter abilities, cleaned up and fixed Chink in the Armor, adjusted Spot Check to flat DC = AC, adjusted action requirements for spot check.

    5. Added: May 21, 10:35AM PST, 2011 - Added special arrows, reworded some abilities for clarity.

    6. Not Raptured: May 22, 6ishPM PST, 2011 - Reworded (again) Paths, Chink in the Armor, to remove potential abuse.

    7. Still not raptured: May 24, 12:30 in the morning, PST, 2011 - Clarified the Sniping Path gained at level 2 - It's a mini crit. Deal with it. Intend to add weights to the special arrows - assume they are arrow-weighted for now. Archer levels stack with and count as fighter levels for the purposes of qualifying for feats that affect ranged weapons.

    8. May 29, 5:55PM, PST, 2011 - Changed full-turn actions back to full-round actions. Mah mistake on that. Added "Archer's" to chink in the armor, for clarification on which/whose turn it lasts until.

    9. June 2, 6:50AM, PST, 2011 - Added the final two paths to the archer, dinked around with the Peerless Archer, changed Precision Damage progression to 4+3, changed Arrow theory to 3+5, messing with Precision Damage names and bonuses.

    10. June 3, 10:40AM, PST, 2011 - Significant Changes! Sniping path overhauled.


    11. June 6, 2:40PM, PST, 2011 - Overhaul complete. Changes to everything. Change log will reflect on these new changes, previous changes invalidated.

    12. June 6, 5:18PM, PST, 2011 - Placed Archer Path after Arrow Theory, instead of before it. Altered Final Sniping Path's wording and removed skill masteries, as Peerless Archer contains them already.

    13. June 8, 10:15AM, PST, 2011 - Precision Damage changed to Precision Archery, Archery Tokens now fuel precision effects, precision effects added or expanded.

    14. ", 12:05PM, PST, 2011 - Archery Tokens added as a side progression, increased, more effects added.

    15. ". 7:25PM, PST, 2011 - Hand and Lung Called Shot costs swapped. Damage requirement added to Lung. Ranged Bull Rush no longer works with Dungeon Crasher and similar feats/abilities.

    16. June 9, 1:42PM, PST, 2011 - Ranged Bull Rush changed to Forceful Shot, much more elegant. Exhibitionist altered to actually work.

    17. June 12, 9:31PM, PST, 2011 - Save DC's for called shots altered from Damage Dealt to 10+1/2Damage Dealt, clause added to ignore non-critable damage in this calculation (such as flaming, precision damage, etc.)

    18. June 13, 5:18PM, PST, 2011 - Heavier Arrows have been given 5 less range increments - halving their maximum range in most cases.

    19. June 14, 11:00PM, PST, 2011 - Skirmisher's level 5 Evasion given a movement requirement, Volley Archer's level 5 has had its Archery Tokens removed, Archery Pool lowered overall, Pool refreshing requires a move action and restricts the archer, Volley Archer's Ranged AoO's given supplemental Archery Tokens. Added a range for Precision Effects, equal to 10xArcher's Level. Wordings on various Precision Effects has been clarified, as well as the mechanic itself. Precision Damage now only applies to targets of successful chink in the armor spot checks. Called shots specified that only 1 effect can be applied to any single attack. Archery Token costs fumbled around a bit to make the resource last, while still making refreshing the pool important. More work soon! Minor wording edits.

    20. June 15, 11:20PM, PST, 2011 - Made CitA Standard Action's Attack non-mandatory. Secondary Edit: Precision Effects altered - Only one effect per arrow, to prevent nova arrows. Exceptions added in certain cases, Improved Vital Aim updated to reflect this.

    21. June 16, 2:45AM, PST, 2011 - Removed extra attack for volley 10. Tinkering with Volley 20. Removing free Archery token per attack on Volley 10. Adding an attacks system to Volley 20 in place of extra attack and bleed - I want him to feel like a gatling gun, at the expense of maybe health, saves, and eventually ability scores? WE'LL SEE!

    22. June 17, 4:07PM, PST, 2011 - Wording changes to skirmish path, removed vestigial bonus attack at 10, looking at more edits that need to be done to it, thinking of spreading the paths out over 5 abilities again.

    23. July 2, 11:50AM, PST, 2011 - Implementing changes - Level layout is being altered, paths back over 5 increments.

    24. July 11, 6:02AM, PST, 2011 - Consolidating abilities for compactness, ease of reading. Slightly nerfing Chink in the Armor, beginning work on feats, Mounted path scrapped in favor of Martial path. Martial path started.

    25. March 27, 12:07 AM, PST, 2013 - Lolol 2 years later and it's still garbage. New take. Everything redone.
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2013-03-27 at 02:07 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lyndworm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Another Archer [WIP, P.E.A.C.H. <3]

    I've only skimmed this, but I really, really. like it. Good job, man.
    Are any of my tables still broken?



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    Default Re: Another Archer [WIP, P.E.A.C.H. <3]

    This has excellent potential. Unfortunately, it doesn't grant enough bonuses to fix the low-damage problem. Dex replacing Strength and 3d8 precision (which several creatures are immune to) are not suitable replacements for Power Attack. The best way I know of to bypass the problem is to maximize your attack numbers and use a force weapon, which ignores DR for a +2 equivalent bonus.

    The Vital Aim ability to trade AC for attack and damage is the right idea, but there still needs to be something more that doesn't mess up skirmish-type archers.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Another Archer [WIP, P.E.A.C.H. <3]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    This has excellent potential. Unfortunately, it doesn't grant enough bonuses to fix the low-damage problem. Dex replacing Strength and 3d8 precision (which several creatures are immune to) are not suitable replacements for Power Attack. The best way I know of to bypass the problem is to maximize your attack numbers and use a force weapon, which ignores DR for a +2 equivalent bonus.

    The Vital Aim ability to trade AC for attack and damage is the right idea, but there still needs to be something more that doesn't mess up skirmish-type archers.
    I'm keeping the class intentionally low for now, to get some playtest results, but I agree - it doesn't make up for these things. I'm toying with precision damage slots - I might make it every 3 levels - 4,7,10,13,16,19, and I might be adding power shot (wording from the Energy Bow) at the cost of 3, as well as ignoring wind-wall at 2, and trying for at least 2 effects at every higher one, or perhaps combined effects if I run out of ideas.

    I'll also be adding, at later levels (17 and 18 are dead at the moment) an ability to allow critical hits against those immune to it, or perhaps tack it onto the sniper path at 16. Improved Vital Aim will be increased, as well - it will be increasing crit modifier as well(stacks with sniper path). The capstone will also be adding a final path ability to each path, in the interest of being really, really good at what you do (Volley will get an effect similar to time stands still, sniper will be getting massive range increases for spot and increment, and who knows what, skirmish will... I don't even know man, I don't even have 16th level done yet.)

    So really, any ideas are welcome for improvements and modifications. What I don't want to do is just add damage to the class as a balancing factor, though.

    Also, the Energy Bow is pants on head retarded - it's a +2 force bow that deals 2d6 damage, lights up, and lets you power attack... for 22,600 gold. If you stick it at ~50,000 gp (where it should be), it's nice. Otherwise, it's silly and you have no reason not to take it.

    Edit: LYNDWORM HOW DID I MISS YOUR COMMENT? MANY LOVES :>
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2011-05-26 at 07:21 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    The Archer is now being playtested in a few games. Updates from playtesting will go in this post.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    I wish I was one of those people who was good at making classes and offering advice about them, alas, I am not. . . which is why I usually just lurk and read the forums a couple of times a week. That being said, I think this has got to be one of the coolest ranged base classes I have ever seen. Even with the dead levels problem. . it is downright elegant. kudos and I can't wait to see what you do with it!
    Lurker Extraordinaire

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    The Sniper option appears much weaker than the other two, and the class is remarkably low on damage for the time being.
    Fudge Assistant in the Playground.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    The Sniper option appears much weaker than the other two, and the class is remarkably low on damage for the time being.
    The sniper begins triggering massive damage rules at 11 from hundreds of feet - but I agree, it's less useful in an actual battle, because if you want skirmish or volley power, you need to give up feats that would help sniping.

    I'm also tinkering with the removal of the sniping penalty - I honestly don't agree with there being one at all, so I'll probably have it -10 at level 2, and gone at 11, replacing the level 6 buff with level 11's and giving masteries for them at 11. Would replacing "Wis" to skills with a flat +5 untyped be better? I like tying abilities to scores, for flavor, but sometimes mechanics recommend a flat buff.

    I'm in 3 games right now with a variety of other classes and builds. The Archer is very intentionally under-powered at the moment, as I'm still tinkering with the level advancement. As of now, he has 6 scaling features - I might do with simply rearranging them to fill the dead levels, but I would rather like to add things. I also like tying abilities to skills, but I don't want to enforce skill requirements to play a class; I've got spot set on chink in the armor because you're going to have spot anyways, and craft because you can hit the DC's with fairly little effort.

    tl;dr - still intentionally underpowered; a highly optimized fighter or ranged warblade can still easily put out more damage at range, but there would be less tripping :> Also, any ideas on the last 4 levels would be appreciated, as I'd like to make people squirm when trying to decide between them, and four levels of cragtop archer (which has a lot to add for almost any arhcer - if only its requirements were reasonable :I )

    Quote Originally Posted by Moribundus
    I wish I was one of those people who was good at making classes and offering advice about them, alas, I am not. . . which is why I usually just lurk and read the forums a couple of times a week. That being said, I think this has got to be one of the coolest ranged base classes I have ever seen. Even with the dead levels problem. . it is downright elegant. kudos and I can't wait to see what you do with it!
    elegant... tehe

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    As pointed out by Knaight, Sniping seems a little weak. I love the idea of a sniper character, and I feel that they're almost impossible to do well. I understand that the class is intentionally built low and unfinished right now, but you may want to check out the Sniper for inspiration. It's not perfect (I have a few modifications I make to actually use it), but it's very nice.

    I agree that the damage seems low as well; that's ranged combat's biggest problem, really. I think that if the Precision Shooting ability came every three levels (3, 6 ,9, 12, 15, 18) it might help the issue a little bit.

    Multiplying the damage on a crit's a little strange; maybe just add it on a crit like Telling Blow? My only issue is that it's strange language not found anywhere else (to the best of my knowledge) that actually goes against the standard definition of Precision Damage, whereas a built-in Telling Blow-like ability does have some precedent.

    I look forward to reading your playtesting information.
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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Comments bolded :3

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    As pointed out by Knaight, Sniping seems a little weak. I love the idea of a sniper character, and I feel that they're almost impossible to do well. I understand that the class is intentionally built low and unfinished right now, but you may want to check out the Sniper for inspiration. It's not perfect (I have a few modifications I make to actually use it), but it's very nice.

    Agreed, I like it very much, and will probably find inspiration from it.

    I agree that the damage seems low as well; that's ranged combat's biggest problem, really. I think that if the Precision Shooting ability came every three levels (3, 6 ,9, 12, 15, 18) it might help the issue a little bit.

    Close to what I was thinking; I'm going with 4/7/10/13/16/19 for now, and also moving the Arrow Theory to 3/8/13/18 - I want to have enough arrows to tailor to a broad range of campaigns, without making the choice of arrow a big deal, but still keeping your choices limited so they feel speshul. You should be able to say "ooh, there's lots of crackly undead, let's take incendiary arrows.", or "ooh, we're going to be sneaking into a castle, let's take an arrow that can anchor our climbing rope." I've also added the last two paths... they feel kind of uninspired at the moment :c

    Multiplying the damage on a crit's a little strange; maybe just add it on a crit like Telling Blow? My only issue is that it's strange language not found anywhere else (to the best of my knowledge) that actually goes against the standard definition of Precision Damage, whereas a built-in Telling Blow-like ability does have some precedent.

    I'll look into it; Precision Damage is just the crappy placeholder name I gave it for now; "Damage that applies to Chink in the Armor victims" just doesn't have the same ring to it. Having it apply on criticals against non-chink'd targets seems about right.

    I look forward to reading your playtesting information.
    Hrawr; I had one DM turn it down because it was overpowered. The rest of the party looks like full casters. Though, Swiftblade was also turned down. Apparently having the ability to simulate spells and shoot arrows is more powerful than being able to cast genesis all day without restriction :I
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2011-06-02 at 08:55 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Since I also have an interest in this class and that I should really get to know this if you're going to use this in my game, here are my two cents, feature by feature.

    I'm not the strongest mechanical person, nor the best eye for balance, so take all of this with a grain of salt. My opinion might be worth far less than I hope.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Chink in the Armour:
    maybe I'm being silly, but it might make a bit more sense to let the effect last until right before the beginning of the Archer's next turn, for corner cases like wanting to make a readied attack with Chink in the Armour (since you can't do this as is--maybe consider letting people do that at a slightly later level.)
    The scaling's also a bit wonky, in my opinion. At level 1, trying to find a chink in the armour's ridiculously difficult against anyone in actual armour. It would probably get a bit better later in the game, but don't quote me on that.
    Also, at level 7, way to encourage belts of battle (or Marshals.) :P

    Archer Paths:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Skirmish:
    Maybe I don't play often enough, but how often do you absolutely need to attack in the middle of a move action that would justify this being a proper class feature, especially given that it has to sit next to x2 damage, and Rapid Shot redux at level 2?
    Sniping:
    Why not just say "use normal multiplier stacking rules"? You're overcomplicating the wording, especially since it operates almost exactly as a critical hit's multiplier, if I'm not misreading this:
    By the normal rules, a x2 and a x2 make a x3. By your wording, if you get a x2 critical on that special hit you do x1 which is doubled, then another x1--for x3. Even if a bow normally does x3, both methods still add up to x4.


    Arrow Theory:
    I like the idea here. If you want to give him more options, why not homebrew more of these, divide them into tiers, then give them several choices amongst the tier they're on?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Shattering Arrow:
    Just nitpicking here: additional implies that you're doing damage to that 5 foot burst to begin with.
    Flash-bang Arrow:
    More nitpicking: I'm not sure why you added the "as the spell, except as noted" clause there. You've more or less covered your bases already, and you're only adding extra silliness--in that I think you've allowed the effect to be dismissable (debatable, of course),and made it treated as a spell, so globes of invulnerability ignore it (somewhat debatable, but why not just avoid this entirely?)
    Incendiary Arrow:
    Just nitpicking here, but you might want to define igniting the target (refer to Alchemist's Fire, etc.) Most people'd probably understand, though.
    Draining Arrow:
    How does bleed damage work? Is this in a book I haven't read? (if it is, you might want to put a refer to Source, pg. or something: note.) If it isn't, how does it work? Does the draining arrow just do one extra point of bleeding damage, period? (beacuse that sort of stinks.)


    Precision Shooting:
    How does this interact with a critical on Chink in the Armour? Would I assume it activates twice? By the wording, it's a bit confusing.
    Just my opinion here, but you should only really penalize the precision damage drop for the one attack you're making a maneuver on. I think you're encouraging them to go all one way or the other. You're also encouraging trying these maneuvers on the last hit of their full round attacks--assuming they can hit (which probably will be the case.)
    Ranged Bull Rush: You might want to add some clauses to defer to the normal Bull Rush rules in terms of bonuses (especially the more than 2 legs thing), because you're almost certainly not including all corner cases and bouts of silliness. Other than that, I like this class feature.

    Vital Aim:
    I understand the penalties cannot become bonuses clause is to prevent someone from completely dumping STR, but it also makes Rays of Enfeeblement stupidly good to use against Archers. "Oh, look, he has 10 STR, let's nullify his DEX or WIS for attacks." Also, in my opinion, this should come earlier.
    Improved Vital Aim @ level 10:
    ...why would you base it off of the lower bonus? You're encouraging a bit of MAD here. Understandably, basing it off of the higher may not be too prudent either, and I don't think people would appreciate trying to calculate the mean of the two stats in combat, so you might not have too many alternatives, however, in my opinion, it's really not asking much to get some sort of bonus to damage. Also, that's really mean to the skirmisher.
    I'd also recommend you split the two parts of the ability to seperate entries. It's a bit weird reading.

    Improved Archer Paths:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Skirmish:
    The wording confuses me somewhat. I'm not sure what the (this stacks) part means (the only thing I can think of is that it stacks with Manyshot and anything else that enhances Manyshot, to which end I say "wasn't that implied?") You might want to reword the last sentence a bit. May I suggest something like "In addition, the attack penalty from using Manyshot is lowered from -4 to -3, and the cumulative penalty for adding additional arrows is reduced from -2 to -1" or something to that effect? Also, does the feature's extra arrow also add a -2 penalty due to Manyshot?
    Sniping:
    You're giving a lot of features there. Let me try this one at a time. Study Counters seem to be a bit of extra paperwork, but manageable. I won't complain there. I've already complained before about the critical threat range increase. Also, awesome, a WIS archer gets to double his stat bonuses to his attacks.
    Volley:
    Wait, another free attack? Also, the volley ability confuses me somewhat. If he misses target A, he gets to re-roll the attack against A's buddy, B, but the target isn't changed at all? Are we hitting A or B, because I'm a little confused. Also, if you wanted to be really be a jerk in a strict reading, an opponent within 15 feet of the original target includes the original target, I think.


    Chink in the Armour @ Move Action:
    At this point, I say "Get that belt of battle over here." Volley archers seem to be getting at least 5 touch attacks with added +2d8 precision damage on each. Granted, they might not all hit, but still, that's appreciable at level 7.

    Greater Paths:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Skirmish:
    I might be being stupid here, but you can use standard actions to move normally, and people would actually abuse this to justify writing that exception? Another attack? Double Manyshot attack routines? I think your Skirmish archer is about two attacks (from class features) behind the Volley archer, and +2 AB ahead.
    Sniping:
    Alright, awesome, I can now spot things several miles away with absolutely no penalty. I'd love to be a level 11 archer in the Sniping path just for that.
    Volley:
    More extra attacks. This has the potential to get really silly. since they can shoot 10 attacks in a full round action, each of them doing extra damage. With a belt of battle, proper weapons, buffs, and a nice powerful Vital Aim... you have appreciable damage output, at least.


    Archer Paragon Path:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Skirmish:
    This seems a bit weak.
    Sniping:
    This seems a bit strong, but probably isn't much to talk about at level 16.
    Volley:
    Goodie, Time Stands Still every other round! I think you might get some annoyed glares if you actually roll all of them. Also: warforged.


    Peerless Archer
    I'd recommend changing this and other mentions of flat-footed to "denied dexterity to AC", mainly since I think there are some oddities in flat-footed vs. DEX to AC in the books. Don't quote me on that, though.
    With adequate eyesight, a volley archer properly built is now launching lots and lots of arrows at enemies thousands of feet away. No complaints here. Why couldn't this come earlier? :D

    Skirmisher:
    OK, a free +20 to massive damage save DCs.
    Sniper:
    You're just now giving HIPS?
    Volley-Man:
    This is a really badass class feature name. It's like having a superhero for a class feature. A free double move per round is nice. Does the bleed damage carry through between rounds, becaue I can't see anything that'd say otherwise.
    ...I won't comment on balance here, since this is a level 20 capstone, but I will comment on what bonuses we've gotten:

    Skirmishing:
    Two standard actions for multishots on the run, 6 shot multishots with absolutely no penalty, both of them can be combined to super shots with DC whatever + 20. Also, a tasty miss chance that seems to be completely unavoidable, that can be easily raised to high amounts if the archer took methods of being faster.
    Sniper:
    HIPS at level 20 up to +100 critical threat range, damage, and to hit. And the ability to do a +60 critical threat range, damage, and to hit attack as an immediate action. I've made the lightning mace comment before (though, admittedly, this is absurdly shaky; I think even a modron would smack you, though it might work with hand crossbows.) Notably, no ability to avoid miss chances.
    Volley-Man (awesome):
    Withdraw as a free action, 24 (?) attacks per round with zero buffs, and a whole lot of bleed damage per round. If I did my math right, if all of them hit, that's 300 bleed damage. Also, wounding arrows. That is all.

    ...I realize this isn't world-shattering at level 20, but it feels somewhat wrong.
    It is, however, very awesome.


    Closing comments on features:
    Skirmish and Volley-Man both feel somewhat similar. Granted, a lot of the features and what they can do are different, but their modus operandi feel, at least, somewhat similar. Also, why did the Volley-Man get more mobile than the skirmisher at level 20, and get to keep the extra attacks? :/



    All in all, this class really feels like a one trick pony. You shoot arrows. You can shoot arrows better. You can shoot more arrows. You can power up your arrow shooting. Strictly speaking, I suppose it is an upgrade on the archer classes we have in the official stuff right here, but it doesn't feel like an upgrade so much as just a bump in power. You can shoot arrows better, and you get some skill points. That's about it. *shameless plug for my called shot system*

    A few of my gripes with the class:
    As it stands, it's fairly MAD. You need at least 10 STR (more to not get completely screwed over by any sort of ability drain), good DEX and WIS, and good CON. I'd recommend some sort of clause to allow WIS to help qualify for DEX related feats that relate directly to archery, and maybe help out initiative, but that's just me. I'd also consider bumping up the hit die to a d8; you're remarkably glass cannonish.
    The power scaling rubs me wrong. The new iterative levels get the path progressions, and seem like Christmas to me. Some of the archery path abilities are ridiculous (but are kind of balanced by the level at which they come.)
    I've got a lot of gripes with wording. Nobody else seemed to, though, so I don't think that that's too much of an issue.
    For volley archers, did you get some sort of sneaky marketing deal with a d20 manufacturer?

    What I like about this class:
    Well, it's a better archer, at least, and I can't ever say no to that.
    This class has got a lot of potential. The chassis's nice.

    All in all, I'd say that this is a decent homebrew (with no sarcasm.) It has room for improvement.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    What, you made an archer class and didn't include Horizon Shot?

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5/PF, WIP, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrawr View Post
    Comments bolded :3
    Hrawr; I had one DM turn it down because it was overpowered. The rest of the party looks like full casters. Though, Swiftblade was also turned down. Apparently having the ability to simulate spells and shoot arrows is more powerful than being able to cast genesis all day without restriction :I
    I would suggest you stay far away from that DM... Unless it was for fluff reasons, Id think that GM was crazy.

    Anyway, I think that the paragon abilities gained at 20th are lack luster. You need to be able to HiPS from at least level 11 or less (Wizards have invisibility from way earlier...) Ill post more in depth later. That just jumped out at me.

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    The Paragon and Peerless features are terrible right now; I've front-loaded the class and rand out of interesting things for it later on.

    "What, you made an archer class and didn't include Horizon Shot? "

    If you want Cragtop Archer, I've given everything needed to PrC into it at the earliest possible entry. Fixing Cragtop Archer can be another task, for someone else :I (someone better than me D: ) Though I agree, many of this class's abilities are meant to synergize well with the Cragtop Archer; It's such a nice 4 level PrC.

    Mage: Your comments really help put things into a bit of perspective.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Since I also have an interest in this class and that I should really get to know this if you're going to use this in my game, here are my two cents, feature by feature.

    I'm not the strongest mechanical person, nor the best eye for balance, so take all of this with a grain of salt. My opinion might be worth far less than I hope.

    Spoiler
    Chink in the Armour:
    maybe I'm being silly, but it might make a bit more sense to let the effect last until right before the beginning of the Archer's next turn, for corner cases like wanting to make a readied attack with Chink in the Armour (since you can't do this as is--maybe consider letting people do that at a slightly later level.)

    This will be changed to "For the rest of the round" - I dun goof'd. Perhaps I should change it to start as a Standard Action, allowing you to ready it if you so please?

    The scaling's also a bit wonky, in my opinion. At level 1, trying to find a chink in the armour's ridiculously difficult against anyone in actual armour. It would probably get a bit better later in the game, but don't quote me on that.

    At level 1, it can be anywhere from 2 to 9, without any other optimization. With 14 Wis and skill focus, you can get it to 9 no problem; an average 70% chance, with little drawback, as you still gain your attack. It stays around 70% with CR, as you stick a point in it each level, and occasionally buy something +wis. At level 5 you can have goggles of the eagle no problem, to keep up with any surprise boosts to AC.

    Also, at level 7, way to encourage belts of battle (or Marshals.) :P
    Belt of Battle is going to be amazing no matter what you put it on. It's just that good :D


    Archer Paths:
    Spoiler
    Skirmish:
    Maybe I don't play often enough, but how often do you absolutely need to attack in the middle of a move action that would justify this being a proper class feature, especially given that it has to sit next to x2 damage, and Rapid Shot redux at level 2?

    It lets you attack from total cover; you can peek out, attack, and dodge back in. This lets you make sniping checks incredibly easily - free flat-footedness, and no retaliation until they start taking readied actions.

    Sniping:
    Why not just say "use normal multiplier stacking rules"? You're overcomplicating the wording, especially since it operates almost exactly as a critical hit's multiplier, if I'm not misreading this:
    By the normal rules, a x2 and a x2 make a x3. By your wording, if you get a x2 critical on that special hit you do x1 which is doubled, then another x1--for x3. Even if a bow normally does x3, both methods still add up to x4.

    It was meant to imply that the restrictions for critical hits - namely immunities - apply to it, but without their benefits (shocking burst, etc.)

    Arrow Theory:
    I like the idea here. If you want to give him more options, why not homebrew more of these, divide them into tiers, then give them several choices amongst the tier they're on?

    I'd intended to break them up into level requirements, so that their DC's are slightly higher than a character's base craft ability with 14 Int. This would mean that the character would have to actually, you know, care about crafting his arrows.

    Spoiler
    Shattering Arrow:
    Just nitpicking here: additional implies that you're doing damage to that 5 foot burst to begin with.

    Will be fixed.

    Flash-bang Arrow:
    More nitpicking: I'm not sure why you added the "as the spell, except as noted" clause there. You've more or less covered your bases already, and you're only adding extra silliness--in that I think you've allowed the effect to be dismissable (debatable, of course),and made it treated as a spell, so globes of invulnerability ignore it (somewhat debatable, but why not just avoid this entirely?)

    It causes both blindness and deafness. The spell causes one or the other. I'll probably just be rewording this entirely.

    Incendiary Arrow:
    Just nitpicking here, but you might want to define igniting the target (refer to Alchemist's Fire, etc.) Most people'd probably understand, though.

    Clarification will be added.

    Draining Arrow:
    How does bleed damage work? Is this in a book I haven't read? (if it is, you might want to put a refer to Source, pg. or something: note.) If it isn't, how does it work? Does the draining arrow just do one extra point of bleeding damage, period? (beacuse that sort of stinks.)

    Bleed damage deals itself once per round at the beginning of your turn, until a DC 15 heal check has been made, OR any amount of magical healing has been administered. I'd thought it was in the PHB, but it's in Complete Scoundrel, and a couple other places. I will be adding a definition for it to the class.

    Precision Shooting:
    How does this interact with a critical on Chink in the Armour? Would I assume it activates twice? By the wording, it's a bit confusing.

    Double Precision on a critical is correct. An extra couple D8's at level 4 isn't going to phase much, considering sorcerers are going around tossing scorching rays out their bottoms.

    Just my opinion here, but you should only really penalize the precision damage drop for the one attack you're making a maneuver on.

    I'll consider it. I intend to rewrite the entire set of abilities; I'd like for there to be more, with scaling costs, and for there to be a mechanic to combine them, as well.

    I think you're encouraging them to go all one way or the other. You're also encouraging trying these maneuvers on the last hit of their full round attacks--assuming they can hit (which probably will be the case.)

    The damage is sacrificed on all attacks made that round. Attack rolls happen before damage rolls. I'll add a "declare your intent at the beginning of the round" dealio to clarify, though.

    Ranged Bull Rush: You might want to add some clauses to defer to the normal Bull Rush rules in terms of bonuses (especially the more than 2 legs thing), because you're almost certainly not including all corner cases and bouts of silliness. Other than that, I like this class feature.

    Will do. Knockback is a +3 modifier, meaning a bow of knockback costs 32,330gp at its very basic, least powerful self. This is unacceptable.

    Vital Aim:
    I understand the penalties cannot become bonuses clause is to prevent someone from completely dumping STR, but it also makes Rays of Enfeeblement stupidly good to use against Archers. "Oh, look, he has 10 STR, let's nullify his DEX or WIS for attacks." Also, in my opinion, this should come earlier.

    Perhaps I'll slot it at level 3, and swap Arrow Theory out as a spell-like progression. You need 12 strength, actually, to make use of it. And having your Str zapped means you take nonproficiency penalties with composite bows.

    Improved Vital Aim @ level 10:
    ...why would you base it off of the lower bonus? You're encouraging a bit of MAD here.

    The archer is about Precision and Patience, with a side of Planning; He's no more MAD than the Warblade or SwordSage, which is where I want him.

    Understandably, basing it off of the higher may not be too prudent either,

    Agreed. Perhaps a set bonus, equal to 1/3-1/2 of the Archer's levels?

    and I don't think people would appreciate trying to calculate the mean of the two stats in combat,

    Heavens no!

    so you might not have too many alternatives, however, in my opinion, it's really not asking much to get some sort of bonus to damage. Also, that's really mean to the skirmisher.
    I'd also recommend you split the two parts of the ability to seperate entries. It's a bit weird reading.

    I don't know whether to change this, or give the skirmisher a clause that allows him to gain Wis to damage. Agreed about setting it in its appropriate spot.

    Improved Archer Paths:
    Spoiler
    Skirmish:
    The wording confuses me somewhat. I'm not sure what the (this stacks) part means (the only thing I can think of is that it stacks with Manyshot and anything else that enhances Manyshot, to which end I say "wasn't that implied?")

    D&D is an allowance based game; I have to specifically say it happens, or it doesn't. I'll remove the redundancy if I can get a couple others saying it's not needed, I suppose.

    You might want to reword the last sentence a bit. May I suggest something like "In addition, the attack penalty from using Manyshot is lowered from -4 to -3, and the cumulative penalty for adding additional arrows is reduced from -2 to -1" or something to that effect?

    Suggestion will be taken.

    Also, does the feature's extra arrow also add a -2 penalty due to Manyshot?

    Yes.


    Sniping:
    You're giving a lot of features there. Let me try this one at a time. Study Counters seem to be a bit of extra paperwork, but manageable.

    I shamelessly stole the idea from here. I intend to tweak it based on comments.


    I won't complain there. I've already complained before about the critical threat range increase. Also, awesome, a WIS archer gets to double his stat bonuses to his attacks.

    Critical range increase applies only to first attack made. Since critical hits are, in general, underpowered when compared to power attack and the likes, I figured that having a fairly decent critical chance in exchange for move actions wasn't a big deal. If it becomes a dominating feature, I will remove it, or tone it down.

    Volley:
    Wait, another free attack? Also, the volley ability confuses me somewhat. If he misses target A, he gets to re-roll the attack against A's buddy, B, but the target isn't changed at all? Are we hitting A or B, because I'm a little confused. Also, if you wanted to be really be a jerk in a strict reading, an opponent within 15 feet of the original target includes the original target, I think.

    Crap, I wanted him to get an attack at 2, and at 11, with the ability to buy off the penalty from 2 with Imp Rapid Shot. Six was a carryover mistake :I The "target" thing is so that the archer can't benefit from Precision Damage against an opponent that was not his target. I'll change it to "This attack gains no benefits from Chink in the Armor, and Precision Damage cannot be applied to it."

    Chink in the Armour @ Move Action:
    At this point, I say "Get that belt of battle over here." Volley archers seem to be getting at least 5 touch attacks with added +2d8 precision damage on each. Granted, they might not all hit, but still, that's appreciable at level 7.

    Two from Full-Round, or two from standard action if move is used? I think. Fighters get Dungeon Crasher at level 6. You be the judge :P

    Greater Paths:
    Spoiler
    Skirmish:
    I might be being stupid here, but you can use standard actions to move normally, and people would actually abuse this to justify writing that exception? Another attack? Double Manyshot attack routines? I think your Skirmish archer is about two attacks (from class features) behind the Volley archer, and +2 AB ahead.

    Skirmish Archers are supposed to make up for having slightly less attacks by being more mobile. You raise an incredibly good point later on, and I feel silly for not noticing it myself. Yes, people would abuse this ability without the clause to either A) move infinitely far in a round, or B) do horrible, terrible things. People are mean, and I hate them.
    +2AB?


    Sniping:
    Alright, awesome, I can now spot things several miles away with absolutely no penalty. I'd love to be a level 11 archer in the Sniping path just for that.

    The spot rules in D&D are stupid. A supermegaoptimized spot person who isn't a wizard can only see maybe 2000-3000 feet. Normal people can't see the Sun, or Clouds, or anything outside of a ~500 foot bubble - and at that, only colossal+. The other option is to halve the penalties again, I suppose.

    Volley:
    More extra attacks. This has the potential to get really silly. since they can shoot 10 attacks in a full round action, each of them doing extra damage. With a belt of battle, proper weapons, buffs, and a nice powerful Vital Aim... you have appreciable damage output, at least.

    Once Improved is fixed, at 11th level, the Archer should be putting out 6 from BAB, and 2 from Rapid Shot and Volley, for a total of 8. I can pop it down to 6, by bringing it to "an extra attack" - This way just feels like two-weapon fighting with perks, to me. The more I look at it, the more I think I'm going to swap it down.


    Archer Paragon Path:
    Spoiler
    Skirmish:
    This seems a bit weak.

    AND uninspired!

    Sniping:
    This seems a bit strong, but probably isn't much to talk about at level 16.

    I'm looking at a couple one-shots to test it against CR appropriate opponents.

    Volley:
    Goodie, Time Stands Still every other round! I think you might get some annoyed glares if you actually roll all of them. Also: warforged.

    Warforged? Can't a Warblade use Time Stands Still every other round :S The archer gets it a level early, but the archer isn't a d12 chasis with full maneuvers.


    Peerless Archer
    I'd recommend changing this and other mentions of flat-footed to "denied dexterity to AC", mainly since I think there are some oddities in flat-footed vs. DEX to AC in the books. Don't quote me on that, though.

    Flat footed is a special case of denied dex to ac. The opponent mustn't know you're there / where you are for it to be applicable.

    With adequate eyesight, a volley archer properly built is now launching lots and lots of arrows at enemies thousands of feet away. No complaints here. Why couldn't this come earlier? :D

    You should see my Cragtop Archer build; it can fire an arrow a mile away at no penalty. Remember the Archer is still limited to about 1000 feet because of his bow's range increments.

    Skirmisher:
    OK, a free +20 to massive damage save DCs.

    DELICIOUS DEATH. DC 15 for eradicating half of a dragon seemed underwhelming to me. I'll scale it back for now, and see where testing goes.

    Sniper:
    You're just now giving HIPS?

    Hrmmmm. I just don't know where to put it T_T

    Volley-Man:
    This is a really badass class feature name. It's like having a superhero for a class feature.

    I COULDN'T THINK OF WHAT TO CALL IT! THE OTHER TWO ARE OBVIOUS!

    A free double move per round is nice. Does the bleed damage carry through between rounds, becaue I can't see anything that'd say otherwise.

    Yes. You are CHALK FULL OF ARROWS. SO MANY ARROWS.

    ...I won't comment on balance here, since this is a level 20 capstone, but I will comment on what bonuses we've gotten:

    Skirmishing:
    Two standard actions for multishots on the run, 6 shot multishots with absolutely no penalty, both of them can be combined to super shots with DC whatever + 20. Also, a tasty miss chance that seems to be completely unavoidable, that can be easily raised to high amounts if the archer took methods of being faster.

    I'll cap the miss chance at 30; that was what was intended, and the rules will reflect on that. DCs will be scaled back (for now!) The Skirmisher in general feels subpar to me, and I have nothing in mind to fix it T_T


    Sniper:
    HIPS at level 20 up to +100 critical threat range, damage, and to hit. And the ability to do a +60 critical threat range, damage, and to hit attack as an immediate action. I've made the lightning mace comment before (though, admittedly, this is absurdly shaky; I think even a modron would smack you, though it might work with hand crossbows.) Notably, no ability to avoid miss chances.

    I'll pop the Critical threat range down to 1/2 sniper levels, and take away its scaling so that it's only +1 per Counter. Miss chance will be removed at a rate of 5% per counter. +60 damage on a single attack that requires some modifiers seems alright to me, considering Barbarians get about that on every attack, and can pounce with it.

    Volley-Man (awesome):
    Withdraw as a free action, 24 (?) attacks per round with zero buffs, and a whole lot of bleed damage per round. If I did my math right, if all of them hit, that's 300 bleed damage. Also, wounding arrows. That is all.

    I think it's 22, but it might be 20. It's a lot of bleed damage; might cap all bleed damage from the archer at 20, as this is still more than anything else I can think of.

    ...I realize this isn't world-shattering at level 20, but it feels somewhat wrong.
    It is, however, very awesome.

    Volley-Man: Wrong, but Awesome.

    Closing comments on features:
    Skirmish and Volley-Man both feel somewhat similar. Granted, a lot of the features and what they can do are different, but their modus operandi feel, at least, somewhat similar. Also, why did the Volley-Man get more mobile than the skirmisher at level 20, and get to keep the extra attacks? :/

    I DON'T KNOW AHHHH. I'm going to remove the movement from the Volle-Man entirely and give him bonuses for STANDING HIS GROUND and BEING A BOSS. The Skirmisher will get... Something. I just feel so uninspired when I look at him, even though he's my favourite for rogues.



    All in all, this class really feels like a one trick pony. You shoot arrows. You can shoot arrows better. You can shoot more arrows. You can power up your arrow shooting.

    Isn't that all Wizards do, but with spells? Or Fighters, with attacks? Agreed, it's a... focused class. I'm open to anything to broaden its horizons :D

    Strictly speaking, I suppose it is an upgrade on the archer classes we have in the official stuff right here, but it doesn't feel like an upgrade so much as just a bump in power. You can shoot arrows better, and you get some skill points. That's about it. *shameless plug for my called shot system*

    If we can find a way to incorporate your called shot system into this class (if you're willing), I'm all for it.

    A few of my gripes with the class:
    As it stands, it's fairly MAD. You need at least 10 STR

    12, and yeah, you won't find anyone who shoots arrows from a bow for a living with weak arms.

    (more to not get completely screwed over by any sort of ability drain), good DEX and WIS, and good CON.

    CON is a bit misleading; you preferably don't want to get hit at all. The class's main focuses are Dex and Wis, and it gets enough bonuses for having both to make it worth it, in my eyes.

    I'd recommend some sort of clause to allow WIS to help qualify for DEX related feats that relate directly to archery, and maybe help out initiative, but that's just me.

    Perhaps include this with Vital Aim, letting you do either or, or adding half the bonus (minimum 1) from the lowest? Also, if I swapped it to level 4, popped Precision Damage to 3, and moved Arrow Theory to 5? I'm going to dink with the class table in Word for a bit tonight, I guess.

    I'd also consider bumping up the hit die to a d8; you're remarkably glass cannonish.

    I'll see how fast it dies at 6 for now. If you want to wade into battles and charge range with this class, you're... I don't even know :I

    The power scaling rubs me wrong. The new iterative levels get the path progressions, and seem like Christmas to me. Some of the archery path abilities are ridiculous (but are kind of balanced by the level at which they come.)

    I basically stole the paths idea from Rangers. I still want 5 progressions; 5 is a magic number for D&D. Perhaps I'll go 5/10/15/20, giving me a bit of leeway to rearrange the other abilities?

    I've got a lot of gripes with wording. Nobody else seemed to, though, so I don't think that that's too much of an issue.

    It's very unpolished and redundant right now, as I want to keep clarity issues to a minimum. Also, there haven't been many reviews as in-depth as yours

    For volley archers, did you get some sort of sneaky marketing deal with a d20 manufacturer?

    I have a thing for it. Our bees will blot out the sun/so we will hug in the shade, kind of thing.

    What I like about this class:
    Well, it's a better archer, at least, and I can't ever say no to that.
    This class has got a lot of potential. The chassis's nice.

    Agreed. I'm kind of frustruated with it at the moment, because my inspiration for class features and nice things petered out at level 11, but it's my baby and I love it D:

    All in all, I'd say that this is a decent homebrew (with no sarcasm.) It has room for improvement.

    I'd like to think so!



    Blargh overhaul in process. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far, but if anything I feel like it's frontloading the class even more.
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2011-06-04 at 04:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Updated 6:03PM EST

    Spoiler
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    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|
    Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    | Precise Shot, Vital Aim

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | Chink in the Armor (Standard)

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    | Precision Shooter +1d8

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    | Arrow Theory

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    | Archer's Path

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    | Precision Shooter +2d8

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    | Chink In the Armor (Move)

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Arrow Theory

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    | Precision Shooter +3d8

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    | Improved Archer's Path

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Improved Precise Shot, Improved Vital Aim

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    | Arrow Theory, Chink in the Armor (Swift), Precision Shooter +4d8

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    | Exhibitionist

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Precision Shooter +5d8, Greater Archer Path

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    | Arrow Theory

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    | Chink in the Armor (Free)

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |, Precision Shooter +6d8

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    | Legendary Exhibitionist

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    | Arrow Theory, Peerless Archer, Armor Piercing [/table]


    Skill Points: (4 + Int modifier) per level, x4 at first level.
    Class Skills: The Archerís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate, Listen (Wis), Knowledge: Nature (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).


    New Abilities at 14, 19
    Exhibitionist (Ex): The Archer may perform a stunt as part of an Intimidate check, substituting a single attack roll against a target at least 600 feet away for his Intimidate ranks. If this attack is against an opponent during the first round of combat, opponents suffer a -2 Morale Penalty to Attack and Damage rolls, Saves vs. Fear effects, and Skill checks until the Archer misses an attack in combat.

    Legendary Exhibitionist (Ex): The Morale Penalty from the Archer's Exhibitionist ability increases to -4, and the Archer and his allies gain a +2 Morale bonus to Attack and Damage Rolls, and Saves vs Fear effects until the Archer misses an attack in combat. As well, the Archer's critical hits and successful Exhibitionist attacks demoralize opponents within 30 feet of the target by 1 step. This demoralization stacks with itself.


    Something to toy with, for now.
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2011-06-04 at 09:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrawr View Post
    Hrawr; I had one DM turn it down because it was overpowered. The rest of the party looks like full casters. Though, Swiftblade was also turned down. Apparently having the ability to simulate spells and shoot arrows is more powerful than being able to cast genesis all day without restriction :I
    I don't think that should be a limiting factor, that DM simply had a poor understanding of game balance.

    Anyways, because this class is extremely combat focused, I think it should be substantially more powerful, as it has no place outside of combat.

    To help deal with MAD, eliminate the restriction on Str penalties for damage given in Vital Aim. Specifically: allow the archer to substitute their dex or wis bonus for a str bonus/penalty for damag. There's still some MAD, but not quite as much.

    As an additional feature (I'm not sure where this would best fit), increase the range increment of all bows, and allow archers to make Sneak Attacks from further away. This could upgrade over several levels, and fill in some of the dead level gaps.

    Give the sniper archer Sneak Attack.
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    If Orcus was a nesting doll, that would certainly make the whole thing work smoother. When you cast a level 1 summoning spell, you summon the little Orcus from the middle, but when you cast Gate, you get the really big Orcus that holds all the small Orcuses.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    I don't think that should be a limiting factor, that DM simply had a poor understanding of game balance.

    Anyways, because this class is extremely combat focused, I think it should be substantially more powerful, as it has no place outside of combat.

    To help deal with MAD, eliminate the restriction on Str penalties for damage given in Vital Aim. Specifically: allow the archer to substitute their dex or wis bonus for a str bonus/penalty for damag. There's still some MAD, but not quite as much.

    As an additional feature (I'm not sure where this would best fit), increase the range increment of all bows, and allow archers to make Sneak Attacks from further away. This could upgrade over several levels, and fill in some of the dead level gaps.

    Give the sniper archer Sneak Attack.

    I'd debated it, but opted for Precision Damage instead; I'm going to be expanding Precision Shooting and Arrow Theory substantially during this overhaul, giving them performance abilities and support options (flare arrows, alarm arrows, splitting an arrow with another arrow, trick shots, called shots, etc.)

    I'm currently overhauling many of the class features; I'm setting Improved Vital Aim up to be a straight 1/2 Archer Levels to damage, and I'm reworking the Paths to 5/10/15/20. This leaves many levels open for perhaps the choice between an animal companion and a weapon familiar.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    If you want to make it much more powerful, make the attacks more "powerful" to the point that they ignore immunity to critical hits (on golems and such). That would be a decent capstone.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Maybe add some bonus feats? You'd need to make an archery-specific list, but I'd be willing to scrounge some of my resources and help with that. Maybe 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19? Seven is a really nice number, and it would fill some of your blank spots. It would also alleviate some of the feat-dependency archery has.

    Preliminary Feat List:
    Spoiler
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    Able Sniper, Bowslinger, Deadeye Shot, Defensive Archery, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency(?), Far Shot, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Mobility, Penetrating Shot, Plunging Shot, Point Blank Shot, Power Critical, Precise Shot, Ranged Disarm(?), Ranged Pin(?), Ranged Sunder(?), Ranged Weapon Mastery, Rapid Shot, Sharp-Shooting, Shot on the Run(?), Skill Focus, Stealthy, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Woodland Archer, Zen Archery

    Assuming you went that route, you'd only have to fill the 14th and 19th level abilities. That's a 5 level gap, and a really nice place to put a scaling ability. I'm thinking something with called shots and critical hits, like reducing the attack bonus by 3 to increase the threat range and/or multiplier by 1... Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Lyndworm; 2011-06-04 at 07:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm
    Maybe add some bonus feats? You'd need to make an archery-specific list, but I'd be willing to scrounge some of my resources and help with that. Maybe 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19? Seven is a really nice number, and it would fill some of your blank spots. It would also alleviate some of the feat-dependency archery has.

    I was hoping to avoid bonus feats, adding what I needed through class features (Manyshot was already written out for me, so I kept it as such, but for Pathfinder play I would write it out.)

    Assuming you went that route, you'd only have to fill the 14th and 19th level abilities. That's a 5 level gap, and a really nice place to put a scaling ability. I'm thinking something with called shots and critical hits, like reducing the attack bonus by 3 to increase the threat range and/or multiplier by 1... Any thoughts?

    I can see putting something nice in at 14 and 19. Called shots looks like a nice piece, but it and Critical Hit shenanigans will be going into Precision Damage. Perhaps some demoralizing or exhibitionist stunts? At 14th level, you're probably renowned enough to have a bit of a reputation to exploit :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfstone
    If you want to make it much more powerful, make the attacks more "powerful" to the point that they ignore immunity to critical hits (on golems and such). That would be a decent capstone.
    I want to make it more versatile; if I want to add power, I've got a bunch of class features that I can always just add a "The Archer gains a +1 untyped bonus to his ranged attack's damage rolls" clause to. The Sniper has been given a feature to remove immunities at 15, as well as HiPS at 10 and improved HiPS at 20, AS WELL as no sniping penalties at 15. The Skirmisher has been given Evasion/Improved Evasion. Volley Archer is already powerful, for now at least.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrawr View Post
    I was hoping to avoid bonus feats, adding what I needed through class features (Manyshot was already written out for me, so I kept it as such, but for Pathfinder play I would write it out.)
    Fair enough. I'm afraid that I'm out of ideas...

    I'll keep checking back, though; keep up the good work.
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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    Fair enough. I'm afraid that I'm out of ideas...

    I'll keep checking back, though; keep up the good work.
    I filled the dead levels with Exhibitionist and Legendary Exhibitionist; 13th level might get a bonus feat to be forever alone with.

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    I like'em, mostly.

    As it's currently worded, the enemy must be at least 605ft away. Is this intentional? It seems a little odd.

    Also, why Perform? Since you're substituting an attack roll anyway, wouldn't Intimidate make more sense?
    Last edited by Lyndworm; 2011-06-04 at 08:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Gha, I wrote performance once and then perform was stuck in my head. Intimidate was intended, thanks. Swapped to "at least 600 feet" from "more than." Many thanks :D

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    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    So you can't make this check against an enemy 100ft away, or 30ft away? I suppose that's a truly Archeresque ability... No other class could even make the Spot check to see an enemy that far out.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    I understand that the class is intentionally built low and unfinished right now, but you may want to check out the Sniper for inspiration. It's not perfect (I have a few modifications I make to actually use it), but it's very nice.
    Would you be interested in seeing the changes I make to the Sniper class? They're mostly small, but it could help you, I suppose.

    Here they are:
    Spoiler
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    The Sniper

    Alignment: Snipers can be of any alignment.
    Hit Die: d6. A sniper focuses on the ability to defeat enemies from afar rather than face them in melee.
    Starting Gold: As Rogue.

    Class Skills:
    The class skills for a Sniper(and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+Int Mod) x4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: (6+Int Mod)

    The Sniper
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st Level|2nd Level|3rd Level|4th Level

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Eagleís Eye, Trapfinding|-|-|-|-

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Stationary Protection|-|-|-|-

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Uncanny Vision, Great Precision|-|-|-|-

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat, Undaunted Missiles|0|-|-|-

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Definite Strike, Extended Range|0|-|-|-

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Quick Missiles, Reactive Shot|1|-|-|-

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Master Sniper|1|-|-|-

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat, Excellent Vision, Improved Eagle's Eye|1|0|-|-

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Hide In Plain Sight|1|0|-|-

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Endless Range, Sniper's Sight|1|1|-|-

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Piercing Missiles|1|1|0|-

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat|1|1|1|-

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Awesome Vision|1|1|1|-

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Expert Sniper|2|1|1|0

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Greater Eagle's Eye, Infinite Range|2|1|1|1

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat|2|2|1|1

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Hail of Missiles|2|2|2|1

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Flawless Vision|3|2|2|1

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Unparalleled Sniper|3|3|3|2

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Perfect Eagleís Eye|3|3|3|3[/table]

    Class Features:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
    Snipers are proficient in the use of all simple weapons, plus all straight bows. Snipers are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

    Spellcasting:
    A sniper casts Arcane spells which are drawn from the sniper spell list, below. A sniper regains spell slots after 8 hours of rest. He casts spells as a sorcerer, using the sniper spell list as his spellís known list.

    To cast a spell, the sniper must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sniperís spell is 10 + the spell level + the sniper's Intelligence modifier. A sniper gains bonus spells per day based on his Intelligence score.

    Eagleís Eye (Ex):
    By focusing on an opponent, a sniper can study him or her, focusing in on the targetís weak points and movement patterns. By spending a move action observing a creature, a sniper can get a lock on that creature. On the next attack the sniper makes against that creature, he gets a +1 competence bonus to attack rolls, a +1d6 bonus on damage, and an increase of 1 to his critical threat range. A sniper can maintain multiple locks on the same creature, and may maintain a number of locks equal to his class level. Multiple locks stack, unlike most competence bonuses. The extra damage from a lock is precision damage, and is not normally able to affect creatures immune to critical hits.

    Trapfinding (Ex):
    Snipers can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. Snipers can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. A sniper who beats a trapís DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.

    Stationary Protection (Ex):
    Snipers often find themselves staying in one place for long periods of time. As such, snipers train to turn a lack of movement into protection. At the end of each sniperís round, if the sniper did not move, he gains a +1 competence bonus to AC. This ability stacks with itself, to a maximum AC bonus of Ĺ the sniperís class level.

    Uncanny Vision (Ex):
    A sniper gains a +5 bonus on all Spot checks, and a +2 bonus on Initiative checks.

    Great Precision (Ex):
    The sniper has spent countless hours training to place his shots accurately, to inflict the maximum amount of damage with arrow or bolt. A sniper may add his Intelligence modifier to all damage he deals with ranged weapons as precision damage. Additionally, by taking the entire round to study his opponent a sniper may gain three locks at once, though gaining locks in this way does not increase the maximum amount of locks held.

    Undaunted Missiles (Ex):
    Snipers, although they aim for one point, can still hit despite missing that point. Whenever a sniper attacks a creature that he has a lock on and misses by 3 or less, the sniper may deal normal weapon damage to that creature.

    Bonus Feat:
    The sniper gains any Ranged Combat, Skill Focus or Weapon Focus feat for which he meets the prerequisites. He gains another Bonus Feat every four levels after 4th (at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th).

    Extended Range (Ex):
    The sniper trains long and hard to increase the range at which he can deal death on swift wings. The range increment of any projectile wielded by the sniper increases by 50%. The range increment of any thrown weapon wielded by the sniper increases to 100%.

    Definite Strike (Ex):
    A sniper's accuracy with his weapon is undaunted, allowing him to scope out weak points in any being. Whenever a sniper attacks a creature that he has at least one lock on, that creature takes half damage from precision damage and critical hits from that attack. This ability does not apply to creatures that are immune to critical hits due to the Fortification ability.

    Improved Eagleís Eye (Ex):
    A sniperís use of his Eagleís Eye ability matures, giving him the ability to further analyze his targets. A sniper may use a move action to create two locks instead of one, or he may spend the entire round studying his opponent to gain six locks instead of three. These locks may be on the same creature or different creatures.

    Master Sniper (Ex):
    A sniper becomes a master at dealing damage while hidden. When a sniper makes a hide check after a successful attack, he only takes a -10 penalty, as opposed to the normal -20 penalty.

    Excellent Vision (Ex):
    A sniper's bonus on Spot checks increases to +10, and his bonus on Initiative checks increases to +4.

    Quick Missiles (Ex):
    A sniperís training allows him to attack more quickly than normal. A sniper may make a single attack with any ranged weapon as a Swift action. The sniper deals minimum Eagle's Eye damage with this attack. For example, if the sniper has six locks on a target and uses Quick Missiles to fire a missile as a Swift action, that attack does +6 damage rather than +6d6.

    Reactive Shot (Ex):
    If a creature within 15' of the sniper takes an action that provokes an Attack of Opportunity, he may make a single ranged attack against it at his highest attack bonus. This consumes all of his remaining Attacks of Opportunity for the round. At 15th level this ability can be used out to 20', and at 20th level this ability can be used out to 25'.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex):
    The sniperís long training in the wild allows him to fade into the shadows. As long as the sniper is within a shadowed area, he may use the hide skill without concealment.

    Endless Range (Ex):
    A sniperís skill at hitting far away creatures increases farther. The range increment of any thrown weapon wielded by the sniper increases by a total 200%. The range increment of any projectile weapon wielded by the sniper increases by a total 100%.

    Sniper's Sight (Su):
    The sniperís choice of spells is a careful assortment, chosen to aid the sniper instead of hindering him. The sniper can see and attack through any effect of any spell he casts. For example, the sniper would ignore the concealment of other creatures within his Fog Cloud spell, in addition to being able to see through it as easily as normal weather.

    Piercing Missiles (Ex):
    A sniper can pour so much force into his weapons that they can slice right through one creature and hit another. Whenever a sniper makes a ranged attack, successfully hits a creature, and has another creature in the weaponís path, he may make an attack against the second creature at a -5 penalty to hit.

    Awesome Vision (Ex):
    A sniper's bonus on Spot checks increases to +15, and his bonus on Initiative checks increases to +6.

    Expert Sniper (Ex):
    A sniper becomes an expert at dealing damage while hidden. When a sniper makes a hide check after a successful attack, he only takes a -5 penalty, as opposed to the normal -10 penalty.

    Infinite Range (Ex):
    A sniper becomes able to hit enemies accurately, no matter what the distance between him and his target. A sniper only takes a -1 penalty per range increment, instead of -2.

    Greater Eagle's Eye (Ex):
    A sniperís ability to lock onto targets becomes nearly inhuman. A sniper may now use a move action to create three locks, or he may spend the entire round studying his opponent to gain nine locks. These locks may be on the same creature or different creatures.

    Flawless Vision (Ex):
    A sniper's bonus on Spot checks increases to +20, and his bonus on Initiative checks increases to +8.

    Unparalleled Sniper (Ex):
    A sniper takes no hide penalty after attacking, instead of a -5 penalty.

    Hail of Missiles (Ex):
    As a full round action, a sniper can fire a missile at each target within range. Each attack uses the sniper's highest attack bonus and each enemy may only be targeted by a single missile. Extra damage from Eagle's eye applies to any enemy with at least one lock on it.

    Perfect Eagleís Eye (Ex):
    A sniperís ability to lock onto targets almost infallible. A sniper may now use a move action to create four locks, or he may spend the entire round studying his opponent to gain twelve locks. These locks may be on the same creature or different creatures.



    Sniper Spells:
    Spoiler
    Show
    1st Level: Accelerated Movement, Arrow Mind, Camouflage, Disguise Self, Feather Fall, Guided Shot, Hawkeye, Hunter's Mercy, Jump, Magic Weapon, Obscuring Mist, Pass Without Trace, Rooftop Strider, Sniper's Shot, True Strike

    2nd level: Cat's Grace, Darkness, Easy Climb, Flame Arrow, Fog Cloud, Greater Magic Weapon, Invisibility, Owl's Wisdom, See Invisibility, Snare, Spiderclimb, Undetectable Alignment, Web

    3rd level: Arcane Sight, Discern Shapechanger, Keen Edge, Flashburst, Gaseous Form, Nondetection, Shrink Item, Sleet Storm, Water Breathing, Weapon of Impact, Wraithstrike

    4th level: Arrow Storm, Bane Bow, Dimension Door, Dimensional Anchor, Freedom of Movement, Haste, Greater Invisibility, Illusory Wall, Solid Fog
    Last edited by Lyndworm; 2011-06-04 at 09:55 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Mostly Finished, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Hrawr, I'll gladly look-over and pull from your wisdom :3 The Exhibitionist ability is a no-save demoralization, and although it's a mere fear effect, it will be useful in battles. I originally intended it to be 300 feet, and I think I'll go back to that; I need to add a clause that says "Also the enemy needs to see you for this to work because otherwise it's just arrows, arrows everywhere."

    As well, for ease of placement, Here is the current updated overhaul. I've incorporated changes proposed for what I hope are many serious improvements. The paths need to be are properly spaced again; I had them put together so I could observe what they looked like a bit easier. As well, I still need a good idea for Peerless Archer; it feels like it could use a bit more of a cap than what the paths are giving it.

    Peerless Archer Updated:
    Peerless Archer (Ex): At 20th level, In any encounter which the Archer may take part of a surprise round, the Archer may take a full round, instead of the normal standard action. The penalties to Ranged Attacks and Spot Checks due to range are halved, and the Archer may take 10 on Ranged Attack rolls and on his class skills.

    Is this too powerful? Too limited in use? Too boring?


    Changing Precision Damage to "Precision Archery", changing 1d8's to precision tokens, which can be exchanged for a variety of effects.
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2011-06-08 at 11:34 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Massive Updates, 90%, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Precision Archery and Archery token progression added - Tell me what you think! Especially tell me if I've ruined everything forever

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia

    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Massive Updates, 90%, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Called Shot: Lung is way too cheap for what it does. If you take two shots to the lungs, you're suffocating, which means you get one round of being staggered before you fall unconscious. Especially with the rate at which the tokens regenerate (so as long as I keep full-attacking, I can keep spending all my tokens every turn?), an Archer is going to turn a lot of encounters into "pierce both its lungs before it mauls me to death". Possibly swap it with Hand in the progression for Called Shots.

    Also, Ranged Bull Rush seems *really* expensive for just 5 feet - Ranged Trip costs less than half as much, and takes out a whole move action.

    Otherwise, it looks like a clever and interesting set of mechanics - it is to maneuvers what psionics is to magic.
    Just the seed of an idea.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Archer Base Class [3.5, Massive Updates, 90%, P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Called Shot: Lung is way too cheap for what it does. If you take two shots to the lungs, you're suffocating, which means you get one round of being staggered before you fall unconscious. Especially with the rate at which the tokens regenerate (so as long as I keep full-attacking, I can keep spending all my tokens every turn?), an Archer is going to turn a lot of encounters into "pierce both its lungs before it mauls me to death". Possibly swap it with Hand in the progression for Called Shots.

    Also, Ranged Bull Rush seems *really* expensive for just 5 feet - Ranged Trip costs less than half as much, and takes out a whole move action.

    Otherwise, it looks like a clever and interesting set of mechanics - it is to maneuvers what psionics is to magic.
    I'll be messing with the DC's, costs, and attack penalties/other requirements for a lot of the Called Shots as I get play-test results; Called Shots to lungs will likely have a damage requirement very soon, as Heart does - heart and lungs damage requirements may go up substantially depending on the damage I start seeing.

    Bull Rush get an extra 5 feet for every 5 you beat the check by, doesn't it? Since the DC is damage based, you can boost the distance with precision damage and other modifiers; you can easily push someone back a move action or farther with the Sniper path, or later on, the skirmish path - As it is already, the Volley path can trigger a bull rush attempt on almost every attack - a +3 weapon modifier. I'll also be adding clause so that it doesn't benefit from certain abilities (cough dungeoncrasher cough cough).

    As for the way you have tokens regenerating - your pool is full for any attack action you make. You can make a single attack as a free action? Full pool for it. Full attack? Full pool. It doesn't discriminate; you can't be as precise with a volley of attacks as you can with a single intentional attack (although the Volley path hopes to mitigate this somewhat, at the expense of mobility of course.)

    "15. ". 7:25PM, PST, 2011 - Hand and Lung Called Shot costs swapped. Damage requirement added to Lung. Ranged Bull Rush no longer works with Dungeon Crasher and similar feats/abilities."
    This should alleviate the problem, thanks :D

    Any ideas for feats, Archery Token abilities, Called Shots, tricks, etc., are gladly welcome :D
    Last edited by chrisrawr; 2011-06-08 at 09:32 PM.

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