Thanqol Learns To Draw!

[Flickerdart]

Ah, proportions time. While these can and do vary, there are general guidelines for a "standard" human. Women will have slightly narrower shoulders and slightly wider hips.

Draw the head first. Shoulders are as wide as two head widths. Upper arms are 1.5 head lengths, lower arms are 1.25, hands with fingers are the size of the face. The neck is actually not all that long. The waist is the size of the shoulders. The actual torso is two heads tall. The legs are four heads tall (yes, legs are very long). Feet are one head in length.
If creating a body "from scratch" I would recommend looking at anatomy reference - bone structure and muscles, specifically. Same goes for faces, and there are wonderful books on that subject.

[Rockbird]

You've got the first principle of artistry down already - practice, practice, practice.

Anatomy studies help a lot. Get a good one and start copying muscle groups, whole body shots, whatever. Learn the skeleton and the muscles.

These practice pictures will look like crap. The proportions will be wrong, stuff will look messed up. It will feel useless.

Then you sit down to draw some time later and it's all there. You don't need to think about it because you've got it programmed into your spine. This takes time of course - my first serious anatomy practice period lasted about a year, and i still go back to brush up now and then.

When it comes to faces and heads in general i would strongly recommend getting your hands on the Artists Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. It's a very very very useful book and has helped at least me a whole damn lot.

Also, as has been mentioned, life drawing is useful. It helps to put together all that anatomy practice and get a view of how it works in practice.

[Skavensrule]

Well Thangol, you've motivated me to do some sketching of my own again. But for any of you out there that think I will post anything at this time I refer you to comic #303 (the last two panels) for my reply. If I can remember the password though I do have a DevArt account that I started the last time I tried to get back into drawing. (nothing ever got posted though, new GF started taking up free time)

[Thanqol]

Well Thangol, you've motivated me to do some sketching of my own again. But for any of you out there that think I will post anything at this time I refer you to comic #303 (the last two panels) for my reply. If I can remember the password though I do have a DevArt account that I started the last time I tried to get back into drawing. (nothing ever got posted though, new GF started taking up free time)

Hey, that's great! If you ever do produce something you're confident with putting on The Internet, go ahead and post it here. The more people get in on this bandwagon, the better off everyone will be

[Thanqol]

Day Four: Proportions Time

Following Flickerdart's really handy reference estimates, I started filling pages with more stick figures, focusing on getting proportions right. I realise that my original idea of doing one single drawing every night was pretty unrealistic; a whole lot of this time is being spent on random doodling and getting a feel for how lines move.

I did try one semicoherent picture to see what fleshing in one of these skeletons felt like. My reception was mixed, but what doing this did was made me realise I have no idea how to draw faces. I filled another page with random dud faces before I ran out of time for it.

I'm going to try more faces tomorrow with a bunch of reference pictures, and take a look at facial anatomy as suggested. Anyone got any specific suggestions? Not going for realism here, just decent sketches right now.

Model: None

Finished Sketch:

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Time taken: 2 1/2 hours
Materials: H, 2B pencils
Music: One Country

[Saeyan]

2.5 hours? goodness you are serious.
Don't burn yourself out.

How large are you working? A4, right? but how many pictures (like the guy in the latest image) are you fitting on one sheet?

Let's try to improve your line quality a little. Stick your paper on the wall slightly below eye level and doodle some long lines across the entire length of your paper with a soft pencil (2B or up). Try to move your arm from the elbow joint instead of the wrist, and resist the urge to draw fuzzy lines. that reminds me of biology

here's something interesting you can do: find a street photography group on flickr.com, go to their "group pool" gallery, click on the slideshow button and hit pause. Do some stick figures from the photos there - and if you feel like it, try fleshing out some of them. Don't spend too long on each. a few minutes will suffice.

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^ the problem with this is that you tend to get only people walking, but you can always switch groups. try finding one about martial arts or something!

[Thanqol]

2.5 hours? goodness you are serious.
Don't burn yourself out.

I basically started drawing and zonked out because it was kind of relaxing and I'd had a big and stressful day. ^^;

How large are you working? A4, right? but how many pictures (like the guy in the latest image) are you fitting on one sheet?

Usually two, but I like doing one and then surrounding the exterior with practice attempts at details I think are going to give me trouble, like eyes.

Let's try to improve your line quality a little. Stick your paper on the wall slightly below eye level and doodle some long lines across the entire length of your paper with a soft pencil (2B or up). Try to move your arm from the elbow joint instead of the wrist, and resist the urge to draw fuzzy lines. that reminds me of biology

Mission for tomorrow: Find some thumbtacks and a useable wall to make the attempt! I'm currently propping my sketchbook between my lap and my desk to get a mostly vertical angle but that's still kind of a weird position and I can't get much range out of my elbow.

And it's a pity that this is a thing, because I kind of like the idea of being able to make decent sketches randomly while sitting down... setting up an easel, which is where this will lead, just feels too formal. Ah well, such is life.

I think my line quality is poor because I've got the habit of making multiple short strokes rather than long smooth ones. It gives me a little more control but you're right, it looks ugly. I'll try to cut down.

here's something interesting you can do: find a street photography group on flickr.com, go to their "group pool" gallery, click on the slideshow button and hit pause. Do some stick figures from the photos there - and if you feel like it, try fleshing out some of them. Don't spend too long on each. a few minutes will suffice.

*Snip*

^ the problem with this is that you tend to get only people walking, but you can always switch groups. try finding one about martial arts or something!

Oh hey, that's really cool! I'll give that a try too! Thanks!

[Prime32]

2.5 hours? goodness you are serious.
Don't burn yourself out.

Speed comes with practice. I still have trouble with some basic stuff, but I can draw things in hours that once took me days.

[Saeyan]

it was kind of relaxing and I'd had a big and stressful day.

that's really good! :)

have you got any blu-tack? less prone to destroy your wall...

I kind of like the idea of being able to make decent sketches randomly while sitting down

no no don't let go of that idea. It will happen. It happens most of the time. Just that for now we should try standing as well. The vertical thing is not really a 'thing'...sitting down with horizontal paper is fine for everything up till A2 in my experience. But when learning to control arm (and even shoulder, or for really huge works torso) movement standing may be beneficial in the beginning.

I usually work with the paper flat or only slightly inclined, which is comfortable and what I am used to BUT runs the risk of distortion due to viewing angle.

making multiple short strokes rather than long smooth ones

multiple short strokes is actually okay up to a certain extent. You're right, it gives you better control. But if you're using many short lines to construct a 4cm-long curve (which is possible, but hard to tell from your pics) then that is too much.

ugh, look at me, dispensing advice like I'm some big-shot artist. I'm learning to draw just like you are. right, I'll be off then. have fun drawing tomorrow!

[Thanqol]

that's really good! :)

have you got any blu-tack? less prone to destroy your wall...

Yeah, but won't that make the paper uneven? Though that may be part of the point, learning not to press hard enough for that to become an issue?

no no don't let go of that idea. It will happen. It happens most of the time. Just that for now we should try standing as well. The vertical thing is not really a 'thing'...sitting down with horizontal paper is fine for everything up till A2 in my experience. But when learning to control arm (and even shoulder, or for really huge works torso) movement standing may be beneficial in the beginning.

Oh good! I'll definitely give it a try tomorrow then!

multiple short strokes is actually okay up to a certain extent. You're right, it gives you better control. But if you're using many short lines to construct a 4cm-long curve (which is possible, but hard to tell from your pics) then that is too much.

ugh, look at me, dispensing advice like I'm some big-shot artist. I'm learning to draw just like you are. right, I'll be off then. have fun drawing tomorrow!

I lunge on absolutely every nugget of advice you dispense! The stuff I've learned from this thread already has saved me weeks of faffing about in my rut of not understanding anything.

[Silviya]

So, you asked for advice on drawing faces. I used to completely suck at drawing faces, partially because I was almost always drawing Dragons, not people.
Rockbird suggested getting Artist's Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. I also have this book, and I also found it very helpful, so I'll second his recommendation of getting the book.

Other then reading books on drawing faces, this is what I did to get better at faces: I got a hundred page 3.5" by 5.5" sketch book, and whenever I saw a good picture of a face, either a photo or a realistic painting/drawing, I'd draw the face in the book. I didn't spend long on it, maybe five minutes at most. I was drawing around three to five faces a day, and by the time I filled up the sketch book I was able to draw faces from my imagination.


Another book that I've found extremely helpful is 100 Ways to Create Fantasy Figures by Francis Tsai. It has some great tips, even if you aren't drawing fantasy things. Some of the tips are probably a bit above your current level of drawing (some of the stuff on color, for example, sense you're not using color yet), but it's still an amazing book. The first section of the book I think will be especially to you. And the later, more advanced stuff will be helpful for you once you reach that level. In other words, the book is amazing and you should get it.


And one more thing: I'm going to be giving a lecture in the summer at a conference I'm going to about art. I'm not going to talking much about how to draw realistically and how to replicate photos and all that, sense there are plenty of books on that subject. I'm going to be talking about how to make your art more interesting. Stuff how to set the mood of a piece, how to increase the impact of a piece, how to tell a story with a piece, etc. I was wondering if it would be helpful for anyone here if I wrote it up at some point and posted it in a thread on this forum (probably before I've given the lecture, maybe sometime in early June). It won't be an advanced or beginner thing, it's something geared at helping all artists, no matter what their skill level. So, basically, my question is, would any of you artists on this forum want me to write it up and post it?

[Domochevsky]

...
And one more thing: I'm going to be giving a lecture in the summer at a conference I'm going to about art. I'm not going to talking much about how to draw realistically and how to replicate photos and all that, sense there are plenty of books on that subject. I'm going to be talking about how to make your art more interesting. Stuff how to set the mood of a piece, how to increase the impact of a piece, how to tell a story with a piece, etc. I was wondering if it would be helpful for anyone here if I wrote it up at some point and posted it in a thread on this forum (probably before I've given the lecture, maybe sometime in early June). It won't be an advanced or beginner thing, it's something geared at helping all artists, no matter what their skill level. So, basically, my question is, would any of you artists on this forum want me to write it up and post it?

Sure, that's always useful.

[Recaiden]

I can't give you any advice, but I can commend you for your efforts and say that you've inspired/guilted me into sketching things once more, which I had stopped upon entering college.

[Thanqol]

So, you asked for advice on drawing faces. I used to completely suck at drawing faces, partially because I was almost always drawing Dragons, not people.
Rockbird suggested getting Artist's Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. I also have this book, and I also found it very helpful, so I'll second his recommendation of getting the book.

Other then reading books on drawing faces, this is what I did to get better at faces: I got a hundred page 3.5" by 5.5" sketch book, and whenever I saw a good picture of a face, either a photo or a realistic painting/drawing, I'd draw the face in the book. I didn't spend long on it, maybe five minutes at most. I was drawing around three to five faces a day, and by the time I filled up the sketch book I was able to draw faces from my imagination.

*Nod nod* That sounds like a good plan. And putting a limit on how much time to spend on each one seems like a good limiter too.

Oh, one question: If I'm trying for a comic book style, like this, should I be using comic faces or real faces as my model?

Another book that I've found extremely helpful is 100 Ways to Create Fantasy Figures by Francis Tsai. It has some great tips, even if you aren't drawing fantasy things. Some of the tips are probably a bit above your current level of drawing (some of the stuff on color, for example, sense you're not using color yet), but it's still an amazing book. The first section of the book I think will be especially to you. And the later, more advanced stuff will be helpful for you once you reach that level. In other words, the book is amazing and you should get it.

WHO KNEW DRAWING WOULD HAVE THIS MUCH READING!?

I'll check the art shop soonish, failing that I'll order them off the interwebs

And one more thing: I'm going to be giving a lecture in the summer at a conference I'm going to about art. I'm not going to talking much about how to draw realistically and how to replicate photos and all that, sense there are plenty of books on that subject. I'm going to be talking about how to make your art more interesting. Stuff how to set the mood of a piece, how to increase the impact of a piece, how to tell a story with a piece, etc. I was wondering if it would be helpful for anyone here if I wrote it up at some point and posted it in a thread on this forum (probably before I've given the lecture, maybe sometime in early June). It won't be an advanced or beginner thing, it's something geared at helping all artists, no matter what their skill level. So, basically, my question is, would any of you artists on this forum want me to write it up and post it?

I would absolutely love to see this! I find this kind of theory absolutely fascinating.

[Silviya]

Oh, one question: If I'm trying for a comic book style, like this, should I be using comic faces or real faces as my model?

I think you should learn to draw real faces first. If you learn to draw the cartoon faces first, and then you later want to draw more realistic faces, it'll be a lot harder, because you'll almost have to unlearn everything you learned from drawing the cartoon faces, or the realistic faces will look cartoony. Also, I find that cartoony faces that are drawn by someone who learned to draw real faces first look much better then cartoon faces drawn by someone who never learned how to draw realistic faces. I'm pretty sure that the guy who drew that comic page knows how to draw realistic faces as well as cartoon faces.
A personal motto of mine when it comes to artistic stylization of any sort: You need to know the rules to break the rules. This applies to cartoons, manga, fantasy creatures, etc.
For example, I draw lots and lots of Dragons. However, I still learned the skeleton and muscle structure of real animals, and I drew lots of real animals first. That way I can give the Dragons more realistic poses, draw the muscles where they should be, make the wings a more realistic size, etc. My Dragons look much better now than they would have if I hadn't studied real animals first. It's the same sort of thing with cartoons: If you know how to draw a realistic face, you'll better know how expressions work, where all the facial features are, and all that.

WHO KNEW DRAWING WOULD HAVE THIS MUCH READING!?

I'll check the art shop soonish, failing that I'll order them off the interwebs

I actually have a shelf and a half dedicated to art books of all kinds. I do more kinds of art then just pencil and paper drawing, so some of the books are on other forms of art, and a significant amount of the books are on drawing Dragons and fantasy creatures in particular, but I still have a ton of books on drawing. There are lots of books on drawing .

I would absolutely love to see this! I find this kind of theory absolutely fascinating.

Sure, that's always useful.

Alright then, I'll start work on getting it all written up as soon as I can .

[Thanqol]

Day Five: Faces of Evil

DRAWING ALL THE FACES

I basically sat down and started finding random pictures and drawing them. Not putting much time or effort into them, just focusing on drawing a tonne of faces, and also focusing on drawing from the elbow rather than the wrist. No editing, stopping, or reflecting, just as many faces as I could. Trying to get a feel for proportions and expressions, and mixing it up with a variety of art styles.

It's an addictive process, especially when I find faces with a lot of character to them. I had to pull myself out after an hour and a half of non stop this.

Model: The first 5 pages of Google Image Search on "Faces"

Finished Sketch:

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Time taken: 1 hour 30 mins
Materials: H, 2B pencils
Music: Lower The Moon

[Flickerdart]

Faces also have proportions! But I'll be damned if I can remember all of them off-hand. An eye between the eyes, top of the nose from the centre point of the head, mouth's centre line is 1/3rd of the way down from the bottom of the nose to the chin, ears start at the eyebrows and end at the bottom of the nose. Something like that.

[Ninjaman]

Faces also have proportions! But I'll be damned if I can remember all of them off-hand. An eye between the eyes, top of the nose from the centre point of the head, mouth's centre line is 1/3rd of the way down from the bottom of the nose to the chin, ears start at the eyebrows and end at the bottom of the nose. Something like that.

And eyes are in the middle of the face.

[Thanqol]

Day 6: Psychoacoustics

Practice, practice, practice.

I think the real progress today has been how I think about drawing. I'm finally really getting into the habit of moving my elbow rather than my wrist when I'm drawing. I took my notepad to tonight's tabletop Exalted session and spent any spare time drawing everyone else. I filled a page with just eyes.

As usual, it's frustrating not to be magically better by this point, but right now being able to draw a circle consistently would be a significant step forwards. I'm finding that it's also harder than I thought to make sure two eyes are looking in the same direction.

Tomorrow I'm going to try sketching some inanimate objects to break things up.

Model: Google Image Search on "Angry Faces"

Finished Sketch: (Especially terrible tonight)

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Time Taken: ~2 hours spread over 5 hours
Materials: 2B Pencil
Music: Science is Fun

[Skavensrule]

Well Thangol I spent about 4 hours today sketching with a specific goal in mind, to create a third "Iron Avatar" image for this month. After three hours of failure I was able to create an image that I liked. The question is how it looks after being scanned and if I can create a background for it before Tuesday.

[Thanqol]

Day Seven: Pony Time

Equestria Daily has basically stolen my idea - Not pointing any fingers PHOEKUN - so I'm going to have a daily challenge to add to my normal drawing practice. I'm going to save everyone here from the many pages I'll be filling with five minute sketches and likely just post the good copy pieces I'll be submitting to the daily contest.

I'm also going to start mixing in some inking into my practice. I find inking helps me a lot psychologically because I stop adding dodgy shading as a substitute for clean lines.

Model:

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Finished Sketch:

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Time Taken: 2 hours
Materials: 2B Pencil, 0.4 Artliner Pen
Music: Equestria Girls (Gonna have this stuck in my head for weeks now)

[Saeyan]

I'll check the art shop soonish, failing that I'll order them off the interwebs

CHECK THE LIBRARY FIRST!

pony

ponies again?! first they invade my thread now this. Why did you choose to flip the image when drawing? did you flip it in your mind?

0.4 Artliner? I love liquid eyeliner too! heh but anyway, i'd recommend using a standard office 0.5-0.7 ballpoint or at least a 0.5 artliner for inks. I reckon the thin nib is making your lines wobblier than they would be otherwise.

I took my notepad to tonight's tabletop Exalted session and spent any spare time drawing everyone else.

that's a fantastic habit. Keep drawing your friends and don't let them see you :P

it's frustrating not to be magically better by this point, but right now being able to draw a circle consistently would be a significant step forwards.

oh man I can't even draw a circle properly! :(

I'm finding that it's also harder than I thought to make sure two eyes are looking in the same direction.

well, at least I can tell that they are looking in the same direction...

Do you have a scanner? or less blurry photos would be good at least...it's hard to tell what's going on in some of your posts.

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[Thanqol]

CHECK THE LIBRARY FIRST!

Will do!

ponies again?! first they invade my thread now this. Why did you choose to flip the image when drawing? did you flip it in your mind?

Ponies. They're the underlying reason behind this entire thing.

I chose to flip it because, well, I thought 'drawing opposite to the model will make me think about it more'.

0.4 Artliner? I love liquid eyeliner too! heh but anyway, i'd recommend using a standard office 0.5-0.7 ballpoint or at least a 0.5 artliner for inks. I reckon the thin nib is making your lines wobblier than they would be otherwise.

Ahhh OK, will do. I found a few 0.4's in my house and thought they looked like legit art pens so I picked them up. I do not actually know the difference between types of pen either.

that's a fantastic habit. Keep drawing your friends and don't let them see you :P

Operation: Stalking commencing.

oh man I can't even draw a circle properly! :(

Circles are haaaaaaard. A few times I've wondered about getting a mathematical compass (but memory tells me those things suck and I probably want to learn to draw without needing one)

well, at least I can tell that they are looking in the same direction...

Do you have a scanner? or less blurry photos would be good at least...it's hard to tell what's going on in some of your posts.

One day, one day I will possess a scanner. Well, I actually do have some cash in my 'Frivolous Waste Money' fund. I'll swing by the shops sometime soon.

I love having a Frivolous Waste Money fund. Makes so many decisions so much easier.

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I love this kind of stuff. Getting direct advice like this is how I learn best. Thank you so much for taking the time

[glemis1]

Ya this is a great thread. I would love to learn how to draw i am pritty good at copying stuff i see but i dont think im a good drawer. This is one i did awhile ago but i don't draw mutch and now i think im going to start drawing more then twice a year.

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[Kaytara]

Hoo boy. What ambition! :D

In some ways, drawing is one of the easiest things in the world to learn. You draw. Ergo, you learn to draw. If you keep drawing, you WILL get better, all from putting pencil to paper and trying to make the end result look as good as possible.

That said, there will be issues that you identify in retrospect and go all "Man, that really kept me from moving forward!" Habits, usually. You get used to doing something one way and it becomes second nature, but it may not always be the best way. This usually concerns coloration techniques or anatomy.

Drawing from pictures is a pretty big no. There's a reason why drawing from life is best - your brain learns to translate 3D into 2D. Drawing from things that are already 2D doesn't have that.

Anatomy classes aren't mandatory in the sense of do them or you'll suck forever, though. (Speaking from experience. Uh, hopefully?) What you want to learn is how a body looks. There's pictures of anatomy and muscles on the net and in books. Study them. Don't try to remember everything at once and don't directly copy, but try to remember and visualise how a particular part looks and incorporate your newfound knowledge in your next few drawings. Then, rinse and repeat. Look at people in daily life and analyse how they look from new perspectives - such as the distance between their features, the proportions of the body, how they carry themselves, where the balance lines are. Try not to look too creepy as you do it, too. XD

Drawing things from the skeleton up is always a good starting idea. Hell, you could do worse than sticking to just drawing nothing but skeletons for a while - actual skeletons, complete with at least all the major bones. Then learn where all the fleshy bits go on top.

But in many ways, learning to draw is sort of a spiritual journey. Sometimes you don't get better as much as you learn to push yourself farther. Your standards on how a "finished" work looks in terms of details, realism, lighting and aesthetics keep rising and you're no longer satisfied with how you did it before, which is why works from even a few months earlier will make you cringe and wonder how you could have ever thought that it looked vaguely good. In short, learning to draw is learning to embrace the perfectionist in you. :P

Drawing from life, perusing book after book, studying theories on colour schemes and composition and whatnot, while very, very helpful, aren't really necessary to improve. To keep drawing and simply try to make it as best as you can, every single time, and constantly widening your horizons on what you can and cannot accomplish - that is necessary.


...I'll stop talking so dramatically now. ^^;

[Trazoi]

To me this thread looks like it's a wake-up call to kick myself into finally putting the hours getting my own cartooning up to scratch. I should get around to launching that webcomic I've always been planning to do in order to force me to learn how to draw.

I chose to flip it because, well, I thought 'drawing opposite to the model will make me think about it more'.

Have you tried turning your reference picture upside down (and drawing your own image upside down as well)? The benefit of doing that is that it helps you think "I need to draw a line that curves like this" instead of "I am drawing an ear, ears should look like this" (symbolic section of the brain then messes it up).

For the artists in the thread, is there a huge benefit in unlearning a horrible pencil grip? I'm a leftie and I grip my pencil like a fist, tucking the pencil into the base of my thumb and wedging the pencil tip between my pointer and middle fingers. Judging from what I've read it's pretty terrible and it means I hold the pencil close to vertical (an artifact of being a leftie), but it's been my grip since forever and everything else I've tried feels wrong. However it's probably a big reason why I prefer to only do drafts in pencil and then do everything digitially, preferrably with vectors where the lines aren't so dodgy.

[Thanqol]

To me this thread looks like it's a wake-up call to kick myself into finally putting the hours getting my own cartooning up to scratch. I should get around to launching that webcomic I've always been planning to do in order to force me to learn how to draw.

Every time I see this, it completely justifies the entire project

Have you tried turning your reference picture upside down (and drawing your own image upside down as well)? The benefit of doing that is that it helps you think "I need to draw a line that curves like this" instead of "I am drawing an ear, ears should look like this" (symbolic section of the brain then messes it up).

That's an even better idea! I'll give that a try!

For the artists in the thread, is there a huge benefit in unlearning a horrible pencil grip? I'm a leftie and I grip my pencil like a fist, tucking the pencil into the base of my thumb and wedging the pencil tip between my pointer and middle fingers. Judging from what I've read it's pretty terrible and it means I hold the pencil close to vertical (an artifact of being a leftie), but it's been my grip since forever and everything else I've tried feels wrong. However it's probably a big reason why I prefer to only do drafts in pencil and then do everything digitially, preferrably with vectors where the lines aren't so dodgy.

Just speaking from myself, given that I had the exact same horrible fistgrip when I started this project a week ago, switching my grip and drawing from the elbow actually helps more than you'd think. It's weird as all hell to get used to, but when doing big, smooth lines it just works better. I'm still getting used to the grip and I think my drawing quality when using it is currently worse than using my natural grip, but I can see that once I can handle it right it'll be a whole lot better.

Irbis posted a link to some grip guides on page 1.

[Trazoi]

That's an even better idea! I'll give that a try!

I think that was one of the first exercises in Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It's a fairly popular drawing book; I'm sure the ANU Art Library has a copy (actually I just checked and it does, plus there's a few copies at the Chifley).

Just speaking from myself, given that I had the exact same horrible fistgrip when I started this project a week ago, switching my grip and drawing from the elbow actually helps more than you'd think. It's weird as all hell to get used to, but when doing big, smooth lines it just works better. I'm still getting used to the grip and I think my drawing quality when using it is currently worse than using my natural grip, but I can see that once I can handle it right it'll be a whole lot better.

I find it hard to draw large figures. Most of my cartoon doodles would fit on a page of A6 (quarter of an A4). Although I don't know if that's also an artifact of my poor grip, or simply from force of habit.

[Thanqol]

I think that was one of the first exercises in Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It's a fairly popular drawing book; I'm sure the ANU Art Library has a copy (actually I just checked and it does, plus there's a few copies at the Chifley).

Baller, I'll go by on Wednesday. I hang out in Chifley all the time anyway Thanks for checking for me!

I find it hard to draw large figures. Most of my cartoon doodles would fit on a page of A6 (quarter of an A4). Although I don't know if that's also an artifact of my poor grip, or simply from force of habit.

Yeah, that's the other thing shifting your grip does for you; going to a proper Violin Bow Grip made me naturally start drawing much larger figures. I switch to a pen grip when I want to do details (which is also a whole lot more precise than my natural grip). Honestly, the only thing that my natural grip had going for it was that I was used to it.

[Irbis]

Baller, I'll go by on Wednesday. I hang out in Chifley all the time anyway Thanks for checking for me!

Yeah, that's the other thing shifting your grip does for you; going to a proper Violin Bow Grip made me naturally start drawing much larger figures. I switch to a pen grip when I want to do details (which is also a whole lot more precise than my natural grip). Honestly, the only thing that my natural grip had going for it was that I was used to it.

Um, Thanquol... If you click 'musings and articles' on the page you just linked, you'll find a small rant about "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" just mentioned. I'd read that if I were you, just to check if it will work for you, I don't know if the rant is right or not, but I'd trust someone who made that page (as he is one of the best artists I saw) more than random book advice.