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  1. - Top - End - #781
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    Day 232: poseManiacal

    Wow. Posemaniacs are hard. Many times I had to pause, gape, and ask myself how such an angle could be drawn at all. But, for practise it was ace and I'll probably be doing more of these.

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  2. - Top - End - #782
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    Forums error, who knew.

    Also addendum to the last: I really should upgrade my skeletoning from stick figures to brief muscular outlines. That'll help, I think.

  3. - Top - End - #783
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    I'm not sure what's the best approach with Posemaniacs - whether to try to capture the pose with sweeping curves as a stick figure, or to go straight to blocking it out with cylinders.

  4. - Top - End - #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trazoi View Post
    I'm not sure what's the best approach with Posemaniacs - whether to try to capture the pose with sweeping curves as a stick figure, or to go straight to blocking it out with cylinders.
    I tried both, and more, in the 10 or so pages I filled. I've got no clue what direction I should be going in.

  5. - Top - End - #785
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    Ooh, Posemaniacs and gesture drawing. That's definitely good to be doing.

    I've found three timed gesture drawing sites so far. Posemaniacs, Pixelovely, and Lovecastle. Posmaniacs uses 3d models, and the other two use actual photographs. I actually found that the 3d models of Posemaniacs made it more difficult for me, since the muscles sort of broke up the form of figure and distracted me from the basic shape. I like Lovecastle more than Pixelovely, mainly because it has a larger variety of photos to work from. It also has hands, heads, and several different kinds of animals, if you want to practice drawing those.

    Of course, the sites that use photographs have lots of pictures of nude models and are definitely NSFW. I'm also not linking to them for that reason, since I'm not exactly sure what the forum rules are regarding linking to sites like that. You can probably find them on Google without too much trouble though.

    As far as the technique of gesture drawing goes, I think just go with what you feel works best for you? As long as you're paying attention to the shape of the form, it should work fine. I personally do lots of pretty chaotic, sketchy lines with a very fine mechanical pencil, because that's how I usually sketch, and try to capture the outline of the form before getting the basic muscle shapes drawn in, if I have time. I also general draw poses for 60 or even 120 seconds instead of 30, which is probably bad of me, but I kept getting frustrated by not being able to get the form right in 30 seconds.

    For gesture drawings, it's best to spend a little bit of time doing them every day, instead of doing them for a long time every few days. If you're really serious about learning anatomy, try to set aside a time every day for gesture drawings, and make it part of your daily routine. I generally spend half an hour on poses, ten minutes on faces, and five minutes on hands a day. Amusingly enough, I actually just got done with my gesture drawings for the day, only to check this thread and see that you've started doing them too.

    Edit: It turns out that this tutorial has examples of gesture drawing, both 30 ones and 60 or 120 second ones. It might help you some to see how other people do it.
    Last edited by Silviya; 2012-01-05 at 06:16 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silviya View Post
    For gesture drawings, it's best to spend a little bit of time doing them every day, instead of doing them for a long time every few days. If you're really serious about learning anatomy, try to set aside a time every day for gesture drawings, and make it part of your daily routine. I generally spend half an hour on poses, ten minutes on faces, and five minutes on hands a day. Amusingly enough, I actually just got done with my gesture drawings for the day, only to check this thread and see that you've started doing them too.
    Done! This is on the daily drawschedule now.

    Edit: It turns out that this tutorial has examples of gesture drawing, both 30 ones and 60 or 120 second ones. It might help you some to see how other people do it.
    Excellent, will look at this later, thank you very much

  7. - Top - End - #787
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    I recently started reading the three newest books in the Gotrek and Felix novels, and I'd like to request a drawing of Grey Seer Thanquol fleeing! You know, legs outstretched, amulets swaying, maybe looking over his shoulder.

    I'm pretty sure you already have a pretty good mental image of the fellow, so, uh, whenever you feel like it.

  8. - Top - End - #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot View Post
    I recently started reading the three newest books in the Gotrek and Felix novels, and I'd like to request a drawing of Grey Seer Thanquol fleeing! You know, legs outstretched, amulets swaying, maybe looking over his shoulder.

    I'm pretty sure you already have a pretty good mental image of the fellow, so, uh, whenever you feel like it.
    Blast these treacherous, incompetent minions!

    Why yes, that does sound like something I should do.

  9. - Top - End - #789
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    Day 233: Solutions

    Our to-do list is your future.

    Finally picked out a logo for the possibly sinister megacorp in my World of Darkness games. I'll be doing a coloured version of this at home, primarily a bronze sheen.

    Did another few pages of prototype designs for this, and getting it right. Wound up borrowing from Cyberstorm, a classic.

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  10. - Top - End - #790
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    Day 234: Gift of a Thistle

    Just a sketch, amongst many.

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  11. - Top - End - #791
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    Day 235: Shapely

    More basic practise stuff, only a few more days before home and getting to work on my to-do list.

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  12. - Top - End - #792
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    Day 236: Alternate Reality #10: Goatee Dimension

    In goatee dimension, everyone has goatees and everyone is evil. Curious that they survived for as long as they have.

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  13. - Top - End - #793
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    Day 237: Generalised

    I'd be lying if I said spending four hours drawing wasn't what I planned to do the moment I got back.

    Not fully happy with this, but I remind myself this is only about the fifth time I've painted proper. More experience is needed.

    EDIT: Bang, realised what I did wrong, but it's a non-trivial fix so I'll just apply it tomorrow.

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    Time: 4 Hours
    Music: Mistaken Identity
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-01-10 at 04:46 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #794
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    Day 238: The Thistle That Keeps On Giving

    Coloured another piece of Siuis lineart. Reasonably satisfied; applying the lessons learned from the last.

    So much drawing.

    More tomorrow.

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    Time: 2 hours
    Music: Gift of a Thistle
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-01-10 at 08:06 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #795
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    Day 238a: Solutions Redux

    Finalised corporate logo for the Solutions company:

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    This same symbol comes in a variety of colours for the various branches and agencies. The only uniform for Solutions employees is that they are required to wear a necktie of their division's colour; the rest is up to their personal preference.

    Security Solutions [Grey]: Solutions' internal security, private army, mercenary companies, and all other hard-power agencies, including internal auditing.

    Sky Solutions [Light Blue]: Solutions' aeronautics division, in charge of space, human air travel, and and various other projects involving the air.

    State Solutions [Red]: Solutions' political, legal and economic divisions, including lobbyists, vendors and accountants.

    Structural Solutions [Green]: Solutions' geological, archaeological, architectural, construction and mining divisions.

    Science Solutions [Purple]: Solutions' research divisions, labs, and schools.

  16. - Top - End - #796
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    Day 238b: Hoofwrassle

    I hate Bon-Bon's mane. It's stupid.

    Check it out, there's a background and EVERYTHING.

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  17. - Top - End - #797
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    As you said earlier you haven't been pushing yourself, and you've mostly just been drawing ponies lately, I issue a challenge to you Mr Thanqol:

    Find one of your earlier realistic drawings and redraw it. Compare results
    Princess in the streets.
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  18. - Top - End - #798
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    This same symbol comes in a variety of colours for the various branches and agencies. The only uniform for Solutions employees is that they are required to wear a necktie of their division's colour; the rest is up to their personal preference.
    Can they have a bow tie instead? Bow ties are cool. :P

    Anyway, sounds interesting and pretty logo.
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  19. - Top - End - #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    As you said earlier you haven't been pushing yourself, and you've mostly just been drawing ponies lately, I issue a challenge to you Mr Thanqol:

    Find one of your earlier realistic drawings and redraw it. Compare results
    I've been drawing predominately ponies BECAUSE Phoe decided at the precise moment I got home to my tablet to host a five-day artist training ground event with a pony theme.

    And also, I consider any day where I spend six or more hours drawing, as I have for the past two days, to be a day where I push myself

    But! Challenge accepted! I'll see what I can do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Can they have a bow tie instead? Bow ties are cool. :P

    Anyway, sounds interesting and pretty logo.
    Bow ties are acceptable.
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-01-11 at 07:15 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #800
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    Haven't been pushing myself, eh?

    Day 239: Mavel

    Model:

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    Original:

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    Lineart:

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    50%:

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    Completed:

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    I reckon I've made some progress.

    Time: 2 hours
    Music: Cascade

  21. - Top - End - #801
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Well, relatively speaking. You drew something you saw. Now try it without a reference.
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  22. - Top - End - #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domochevsky View Post
    Well, relatively speaking. You drew something you saw. Now try it without a reference.
    Aw maaaaan, now I've got to draw without references?

    Seriously, though, I've got no idea when to make the transition from drawing with to without references. Is it now? How often should I change back?
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-01-12 at 06:05 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Haven't been pushing myself, eh?
    I was referencing this post of yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I noticed myself getting complacent, so I'm busting myself down to base principles for the immediate future.
    And since I can only go by what you're posting here it looked like that work fell by the wayside somewhat - if you've still been doing it but not posting it then great I'm also jealous you have six hours to spend drawing!
    My intention was not to imply you haven't been making progress, but that from what you've been posting here there hasn't been much technical stuff or analysis of your work, and that as an artist in any medium it is very easy to get complacent and not push oneself - and thus give you a nudge to do it


    Day 239: Mavel

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    Model:

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    Original:

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    Lineart:

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    50%:

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    Completed:

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    I reckon I've made some progress.

    Time: 2 hours
    Music: Cascade
    Some commentary:

    In regards to composition there is an immediately obvious improvement in the facial structure, especially facial proportions. One common mistake the new and old have is the width/positioning of the mouth.
    The corner of the mouth is in line with the edge of the nostril in both, while it should be in line with the pupil were she looking forward. The shortening of this skews the perspective, giving the lower face the appearance of being in profile (compare this picture to your source to see what I mean).
    Extending the mouth would also change its curvature, showing more of the philtrum (the upper middle bit) which would give more perspective and depth. Shading the ergotrid would also add to this, but is not necessary in a stripped down style. The corner of the mouth should be in line with the centre of the eye regardless of the rotation of the head.

    The bridge of her nose comes up very high, blocking the left side of her face, and I think her eye is over a little to the right of frame, as it looks the correct distance from the nose. Her eye shape is good for a front on view, but should be fractionly more squashed for the partially side on perspective (the curves should be fractionally more exaggerated).
    For the eyeball itself, I think it's rotated a fraction too far. I'm not sure it's possible to look so far to the side that the pupil ends up right in the corner like that. HAving more of the lower iris visible compared to the upper gives a more 'lazy', relaxed look while having it more even or the upper iris visible shows more excitement. Shading the inner edge of the eyeball, even just a faint line, near the tear duct would give it a greater sense of depth and shape.

    The shading and lighting on the headphones is very good. Adding some light shading to the outer corner of her eye and around the bridge of the nose would give shape/depth to her face. The curve of her eyebrow is done perfectly.

    Hope this is clear what I mean, and I think it's all stuff that can be applied to comic style faces too I hope


    In regards to drawing without references - you're already doing it! Unless you happen to know a large number of red tie wearing, sleeve-ripping, knife weilding people. And anthromorphic horses. Then again, maybe you do; Canberra is a rather strange place at times.
    Not using a reference doesn't mean you can't use references - I guess Domo means draw an 'imaginary' face, not copy one - but one still needs to use references for anatomy, pose and proportion. Take a picture and put that person in a different pose or expression, that sort of thing.
    Princess in the streets.
    Princess in the sheets.
    Don't touch me I'm royalty.

  24. - Top - End - #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    I was referencing this post of yours:

    And since I can only go by what you're posting here it looked like that work fell by the wayside somewhat - if you've still been doing it but not posting it then great I'm also jealous you have six hours to spend drawing!
    My intention was not to imply you haven't been making progress, but that from what you've been posting here there hasn't been much technical stuff or analysis of your work, and that as an artist in any medium it is very easy to get complacent and not push oneself - and thus give you a nudge to do it
    Ah, yes, a much more fair assessment. The past 10 days have pretty much been pure technical stuff because I was short a tablet; I just didn't post the pages of crummy hand sketches and so forth.

    And complacency tends to set in when one feels proud of one's work. I'm doing my best to avoid that.

    Finally, six hours painting at a time is fun. My decision going into this summer break was "I can take a full-time job, or I can learn how to paint." I'm not unhappy with my choice.


    Some commentary:

    In regards to composition there is an immediately obvious improvement in the facial structure, especially facial proportions. One common mistake the new and old have is the width/positioning of the mouth.
    The corner of the mouth is in line with the edge of the nostril in both, while it should be in line with the pupil were she looking forward. The shortening of this skews the perspective, giving the lower face the appearance of being in profile (compare this picture to your source to see what I mean).
    Extending the mouth would also change its curvature, showing more of the philtrum (the upper middle bit) which would give more perspective and depth. Shading the ergotrid would also add to this, but is not necessary in a stripped down style. The corner of the mouth should be in line with the centre of the eye regardless of the rotation of the head.
    Ohhh. That's interesting to know, and a good rule of thumb. Thanks!

    The bridge of her nose comes up very high, blocking the left side of her face, and I think her eye is over a little to the right of frame, as it looks the correct distance from the nose. Her eye shape is good for a front on view, but should be fractionly more squashed for the partially side on perspective (the curves should be fractionally more exaggerated).
    For the eyeball itself, I think it's rotated a fraction too far. I'm not sure it's possible to look so far to the side that the pupil ends up right in the corner like that. HAving more of the lower iris visible compared to the upper gives a more 'lazy', relaxed look while having it more even or the upper iris visible shows more excitement. Shading the inner edge of the eyeball, even just a faint line, near the tear duct would give it a greater sense of depth and shape.
    That's super helpful, thank you very much!

    The shading and lighting on the headphones is very good. Adding some light shading to the outer corner of her eye and around the bridge of the nose would give shape/depth to her face. The curve of her eyebrow is done perfectly.

    Hope this is clear what I mean, and I think it's all stuff that can be applied to comic style faces too I hope
    That really helps, thanks! I mean it; having that kind of analysis helps me spot things that I just plain wasn't seeing and visualise in my mind how to fix them.

    The one ongoing issue I really had from this is that I've got no idea how to paint realistic looking hair strands. I used a bristled brush, but that wasn't quite a perfect fit. I also lack any tutorials on the subject. I've been reminding myself to do more research, but I'm at a bit of a loss. Anime hair is just easier.

    In regards to drawing without references - you're already doing it! Unless you happen to know a large number of red tie wearing, sleeve-ripping, knife weilding people. And anthromorphic horses. Then again, maybe you do; Canberra is a rather strange place at times.
    Not using a reference doesn't mean you can't use references - I guess Domo means draw an 'imaginary' face, not copy one - but one still needs to use references for anatomy, pose and proportion. Take a picture and put that person in a different pose or expression, that sort of thing.
    Ah! Grand! That's what I had in mind, wonderful.

  25. - Top - End - #805
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    Day 240: Upbeat

    Feeling fatigued, so just a simple one in a simple style. Two characters from my upcoming Changeling game; the butler is intended to be slightly misproportioned, so that was deliberate.

    On the whole, while there's a few flaws - particularly hands - I'm relatively happy with this. Shows progress.

    Chances are I'll do a technical shading exercise later tonight too, once it's dark enough for what I had in mind.

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    Time: 55 mins
    Music: Scootaloo's Adulthood

  26. - Top - End - #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Seriously, though, I've got no idea when to make the transition from drawing with to without references.
    Short answer: Never.

    Long answer: References will always be useful, no matter your skill level. If you look at some of the really good artists on, say, DA, they frequently use a reference for a difficult pose or a background or... anything, really. Even the people who are on "must've sacrificed their soul to dark gods to gain those skills" level.

    As you get better at drawing, you build up a "library" of sorts; of things that you've drawn enough times that you can do it well from memory. They kinda live in your wrist. That library gets bigger and bigger, but it can never contain everything you'll ever need to draw. So whenever you have to draw something new (or just something you haven't drawn much), you need a reference.
    References can also help you fine tune your existing library. Maybe you've forgotten how something looks, or you never got it right in the first place. So, basically, you won't need references anymore when you can draw everything perfectly. Good luck with that

    Not that I'm one to talk. I'm usually too lazy to dig up proper references pictures. Tsk. That's probably why my progress is so slow.

    Edit: Also, interesting to see the girl portrait. Everything seemed to be positioned so much more... right. Not gonna go into critique, though, because that's been covered in plenty
    Last edited by Glass Mouse; 2012-01-13 at 12:41 AM.
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  27. - Top - End - #807
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass Mouse View Post
    Short answer: Never.

    Long answer: References will always be useful, no matter your skill level. If you look at some of the really good artists on, say, DA, they frequently use a reference for a difficult pose or a background or... anything, really. Even the people who are on "must've sacrificed their soul to dark gods to gain those skills" level.

    As you get better at drawing, you build up a "library" of sorts; of things that you've drawn enough times that you can do it well from memory. They kinda live in your wrist. That library gets bigger and bigger, but it can never contain everything you'll ever need to draw. So whenever you have to draw something new (or just something you haven't drawn much), you need a reference.
    References can also help you fine tune your existing library. Maybe you've forgotten how something looks, or you never got it right in the first place. So, basically, you won't need references anymore when you can draw everything perfectly. Good luck with that

    Not that I'm one to talk. I'm usually too lazy to dig up proper references pictures. Tsk. That's probably why my progress is so slow.

    Edit: Also, interesting to see the girl portrait. Everything seemed to be positioned so much more... right. Not gonna go into critique, though, because that's been covered in plenty
    Draw everything perfectly, gotcha.

    But thanks; I was trying to size up the disconnect between painters who paint from life and those who imagine things from scratch. Good to know there's a connection.

    Day 241: Wall Socket Punch!

    Awright.

    Awright.

    This is what I want to be able to draw. This style, right here.

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    Time: 1 hour 30 mins.
    Music: I Don't Sleep, I Dream
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-01-13 at 09:27 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #808
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Alright, you can be helped then.

    (One thing though, what's with her left arm? Kinda flops around behind her in a weird manner. Is it broken?)
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  29. - Top - End - #809
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domochevsky View Post
    Alright, you can be helped then.
    Oh, pish tosh. I'm going to learn everything else as well. And I'm going to learn to scale it up so it looks like this. But it's basically the direction I want to head in, and has been since day 1.

    (One thing though, what's with her left arm? Kinda flops around behind her in a weird manner. Is it broken?)
    Winding up for when she brings her whole body around and flings lightning everywhere. There's also a slight undercurrent of 'does not actually know how to fight' there too.

  30. - Top - End - #810
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Day 241: Wall Socket Punch!

    Awright.

    Awright.

    This is what I want to be able to draw. This style, right here.

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    ....dude if I could draw that well, I'd be happy. xD

    That said, I'm too lazy to practice. xD
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