Thanqol Learns To Draw!

[Story Time]

That's a good idea. I also recommend finding or generating reference photos of gymnasts in practice. Using a mix of both genders will eventually leave a contiguous set of lines on the paper with practice.

[Thanqol]

Day 331: Grind #1

I've been putting this off way too long.

I'm starting what I'm terming a 'Grind', a process where I continuously draw and re-draw one specific set of thing until I master it and can draw it without reference. This grind is to master girl's faces. I'm going to just bite the bullet and draw like this until I've got the hang of it. If you're here for the occasional ambitious paints and colour piece, then I'm sorry to disappoint you; everything is on hold until this is mastered.

Basically, I'm sick of not being able to draw female faces, and I'm going to draw female faces in this style until I've damn well got it.

Link 1: Freehand
Link 2: TRACE (This is not indicative of improvement, this was a series of traces to help me break down the images in my head. Original is from Dresden Codak)
Link 3: Freehand

The tracing was actually really helpful. I'm going to buckle up and practise via repetition until I build up muscle memory.

Time: 2 hours
Music: You're Only Second Rate

[Domochevsky]

And yet you have not understood what makes a face a face and how a head is build. Shame on you.

[Thanqol]

And yet you have not understood what makes a face a face and how a head is build. Shame on you.

I'm fully aware of the relative flaws in this plan, my understanding of this topic, and the previous day's application. That's why I'm going to such an extreme step of locking myself into it until I make some real progress.

And, given that I still had absolutely no idea how to even start on a head's shape, that the basic three-line outline plus hair gave me serious trouble and chewed up repeated hours of sketchtime, I'm glad I did yesterday's exercise. I've maybe drawn, what, 50 female heads before today? Often spaced out over different days without much consistency, thought or unified planning between them.

Even what I did today was crossing a previously insurmountable obstacle and produced marked progress and a helpful set of mental rules, observations and reference points. So please don't shame me. I am literally just getting started.

[Lix Lorn]

...the first lot looked feminine to me...

[Domochevsky]

...

I like how you're getting all in a huff there; complete with italics. That will keep you motivated. [Mission Success.]

[smuchmuch]

And, given that I still had absolutely no idea how to even start on a head's shape, that the basic three-line outline plus hair gave me serious trouble and chewed up repeated hours of sketchtime, I'm glad I did yesterday's exercise. I've maybe drawn, what, 50 female heads before today? Often spaced out over different days without much consistency, thought or unified planning between them.

(Hum Tanghol while I'm hardly one tocoment on drawing and your progress as been more than admirable, maybe it'd be a good idea to consider backing up a bit and try to get back to observation sketching a bit ?
A bit less custom design, ponies and cartoony stuff and more back to lots of drawing real female heads from actual people (or photography.) ? Getting a better handle on the actual shape of the thing might help stylizing it ?)

[Thanqol]

...the first lot looked feminine to me...

Inconsistently so. Poor consistency of size.

I like how you're getting all in a huff there; complete with italics. That will keep you motivated. [Mission Success.]

You think I needed motivation?

*Fit of sleep deprived giggles*

(Hum Tanghol while I'm hardly one tocoment on drawing and your progress as been more than admirable, maybe it'd be a good idea to consider backing up a bit and try to get back to observation sketching a bit ?
A bit less custom design, ponies and cartoony stuff and more back to lots of drawing real female heads from actual people (or photography.) ? Getting a better handle on the actual shape of the thing might help stylizing it ?)

I'm mostly impressed at how badly you mangled my name; I think that's the prize winner ^^

And yes, yes, I know the theory. I will be trying a range of things in this process, but ultimately I want to not do another detailed, precise and realistic picture. I am capable of making heads look right if I spend +45 minutes working on the details. I would very much like to be able to do that better, faster, which is the objective of this process.

[Thanqol]

Day 332: Grind #2

Bo-pe-doo.

Might not look like much, but that's only because you're not me.

Links

Time: 30 minutes
Music: Hay Ms Derpy

[Sean Mirrsen]

Nice progress! Some look less female (5th top, 2nd bottom) or human (1st top is elfish) than others, but it's looking good overall.

[Thanqol]

Nice progress! Some look less female (5th top, 2nd bottom) or human (1st top is elfish) than others, but it's looking good overall.

That's actually encouraging to hear; 5 top and 2 bottom were distinctly unfeminine in their reference pictures, and the first top was an elf. I was randomly flicking through my females folder and speed drawing whatever non-anime pictures came to hand.

[Lix Lorn]

So
It's nude avatar week starting tomorrow (prolly today when you read this)
Candles can't get an avatar cause ALL his avatars have been by you!

So he was joking about needing to get YOU to do one, as an excuse not to have one
So you should totally do one :3
[/sleepdeprivedlackofrestraint]

[Tectonic Robot]

>////////>

Oh gosh you actually posted Lixie.

<////////<

[Thanqol]

So
It's nude avatar week starting tomorrow (prolly today when you read this)
Candles can't get an avatar cause ALL his avatars have been by you!

So he was joking about needing to get YOU to do one, as an excuse not to have one
So you should totally do one :3
[/sleepdeprivedlackofrestraint]

Not many things could break me out of this grind cycle. The words 'nude avatar week' are one of those few things.

Day 333: SHOCKING NUDITY!

Scandalous!

Grind resumes later tonight.



Time: 45 minutes
Music: Cry me a river

[Sean Mirrsen]

Heheh, neat. I was going to say something along the same lines, i.e. "why don't you switch back to a pony avatar, they're mostly nude anyway".

Shading looks nice, and I see exactly what I was talking about in your outlines - even if they're essentially uniform, they look good if they're filled in. But I do see some thickness variation, and great use of it for eyelashes, so it's all great.

[Lix Lorn]

oh god and I thought Mask couldn't GET any cuter
(snuggleglomps her)

[SiuiS]

Day 331: Grind #1

I've been putting this off way too long.

I'm starting what I'm terming a 'Grind', a process where I continuously draw and re-draw one specific set of thing until I master it and can draw it without reference. This grind is to master girl's faces. I'm going to just bite the bullet and draw like this until I've got the hang of it. If you're here for the occasional ambitious paints and colour piece, then I'm sorry to disappoint you; everything is on hold until this is mastered.

Basically, I'm sick of not being able to draw female faces, and I'm going to draw female faces in this style until I've damn well got it.

Link 1: Freehand
Link 2: TRACE (This is not indicative of improvement, this was a series of traces to help me break down the images in my head. Original is from Dresden Codak)
Link 3: Freehand

The tracing was actually really helpful. I'm going to buckle up and practise via repetition until I build up muscle memory.

Time: 2 hours
Music: You're Only Second Rate

I'm fully aware of the relative flaws in this plan, my understanding of this topic, and the previous day's application. That's why I'm going to such an extreme step of locking myself into it until I make some real progress.

And, given that I still had absolutely no idea how to even start on a head's shape, that the basic three-line outline plus hair gave me serious trouble and chewed up repeated hours of sketchtime, I'm glad I did yesterday's exercise. I've maybe drawn, what, 50 female heads before today? Often spaced out over different days without much consistency, thought or unified planning between them.

Even what I did today was crossing a previously insurmountable obstacle and produced marked progress and a helpful set of mental rules, observations and reference points. So please don't shame me. I am literally just getting started.

I think you are doing this wrong.

Having been in opposite roles with you telling me I was wrong and defending my choice I am well aware there may be a lot of mental work we don't see, but regardless...

You are trying to master the answers without learning the equations. It will be a terribly short term gain and is unworthy of you.


What makes a face feminine?
What is a girl's face? (how would you know you drew one?)
If you can't draw a head how will lines tha approximate a face be an improvement?
What makes a face masculine?
What makes a face?

A face/head is bone, with some meat and some skin. The bone shape affects structure and alignment. The meat affects smoothness, wrinkles and motion (in conjunction with the bones), the skin affects light, texture and presence.

You can learn to draw girl faces by simple use of a Cupid-esque jawline, button nose and dainty eyebrows (and frame the hair in bangs), but it's a crutch not a tool. Grinding faces is good, but practice makes rote; perfect practice makes perfect. Don't ingrain mistakes.

[Thanqol]

Heheh, neat. I was going to say something along the same lines, i.e. "why don't you switch back to a pony avatar, they're mostly nude anyway".

Shading looks nice, and I see exactly what I was talking about in your outlines - even if they're essentially uniform, they look good if they're filled in. But I do see some thickness variation, and great use of it for eyelashes, so it's all great.

Thank you! And you're right; the problem with inking is that it expects shading to add depth later; by itself, it'll just look flat.

oh god and I thought Mask couldn't GET any cuter
(snuggleglomps her)

Yay ^^

I think you are doing this wrong.

Having been in opposite roles with you telling me I was wrong and defending my choice I am well aware there may be a lot of mental work we don't see, but regardless...

You are trying to master the answers without learning the equations. It will be a terribly short term gain and is unworthy of you.


What makes a face feminine?
What is a girl's face? (how would you know you drew one?)
If you can't draw a head how will lines tha approximate a face be an improvement?
What makes a face masculine?
What makes a face?

A face/head is bone, with some meat and some skin. The bone shape affects structure and alignment. The meat affects smoothness, wrinkles and motion (in conjunction with the bones), the skin affects light, texture and presence.

You can learn to draw girl faces by simple use of a Cupid-esque jawline, button nose and dainty eyebrows (and frame the hair in bangs), but it's a crutch not a tool. Grinding faces is good, but practice makes rote; perfect practice makes perfect. Don't ingrain mistakes.

Okay, let me explain something. Here. This is a short list of things I have discovered while doing what I've been doing.

That is a lot of things for just two days of practise. Because those two days of practise have been the first two consecutive days of serious practise I have ever had on this topic.

I'm doing this in a way that includes reflection and assessment. I'm also doing this in a way that keeps me iron-clad on track on this topic and style until I understand it. This is the best way I can think of to learn how to do this. Do you have an alternative?

No, really. Write up some exercises or challenges and I will do them.

Day 334: Grind #3

Heads perspective practise, from a tutorial.

Links

Thoughts:
- Skimping on eye detail really makes an astounding difference to how the picture looks.
- Think I've figured out how to eyeball a hairline.
- Getting a more consistent sizing but it's still not up to scratch, will focus a bit more on it
- I think I'm starting to figure out how to do lips and chins in profile.

Time: 45 minutes
Music: Soaring

[SiuiS]

I don't know. Your learning style is so different from mine. The eye divot, the chin? Those are bony landmarks. you've drawn them before, I thought you had that.

You say you don't know what a head is made of? Learn. This is just the outside stuff and how it forms. The skull, the meat, it's all important.

I suppose really I'm just disappointed. This is how I learned, but it took me years of slow acquisition. But neither of us can figure out something other than brute-force compilation method and then parse for decent results? I can't accept that. There has to be a better way.

Forgive the anatogonstoc dialectic process. I'm fully confident you know what you're doing, but you said yourself this feels like settling for what's okay instead of what's Thanqol.


I finally figured out why your dedication to dragons creeps me out by the way.

Spoiler

Show

[Domochevsky]

Well, here's my challenge to you then... draw your next set of heads with shorn hair. 1mm tops. Varying angles. Let me see some hairlines.

Open this spoiler box after you are done with that:

Spoiler

Show

Now add varying hair styles in a new layer and color to these heads.

[Story Time]

...there are different types of learning. Some learn by thinking; others learn by physical motion. These two learning types influence the best methods to teach drawing from person to person.

Please read this for further information. Among the other roads mentioned are paths for internal and external thinking. Learning by motion or action is called kinesthetic learning...

[Thanqol]

I don't know. Your learning style is so different from mine. The eye divot, the chin? Those are bony landmarks. you've drawn them before, I thought you had that.

No, I've done that. I didn't know that. I've become practised in looking at things and breaking it down into linework and drawing that, but there's a difference between that nice, theoretical, broadly applicable skill and more specific applications, especially where models are not used.

You say you don't know what a head is made of? Learn. This is just the outside stuff and how it forms. The skull, the meat, it's all important.

Having looked at a fair few skull anatomy drawings, I'm unclear how to apply those more than I have?

I suppose really I'm just disappointed. This is how I learned, but it took me years of slow acquisition. But neither of us can figure out something other than brute-force compilation method and then parse for decent results? I can't accept that. There has to be a better way.

Forgive the anatogonstoc dialectic process. I'm fully confident you know what you're doing, but you said yourself this feels like settling for what's okay instead of what's Thanqol.

Oh good, I'm up against theoretical Thanqol - my archnemesis!

My current thought is that while my process has been generally excellent for building a theoretical groundwork - not sticking to any one thing for any extent of time so I learn the fundamentals of drawing and linework in abstract, and thus have an inherently broad range - something as mechanical as a human face, which requires some degree of consistency between pictures, requires me to actually put the practise hours in. I've done a lot to build up a theoretical groundwork, but I also need some actual repetition to back it up.

I finally figured out why your dedication to dragons creeps me out by the way.

Spoiler

Show

Heh, why does that creep you out? It's true stuff, stuff worth living by and stuff I developed in parallel. Good to see Mr. Lee had a particularly beautiful articulation of it.

See, the dragon is my core ideal and image.The theory of the dragon is complete personal power. The dragon is self contained. The dragon fears nothing; wants for nothing; needs to achieve nothing. The dragon is free from restraint, from care, from the world. What remains is a choice.

I made a deal with a dragon when I was young; in a dream, I met her in an open field, frozen and shining with moonlight, and promised her that I would make her proud. It's the moment that made me a person; before then I was just anger, envy, fear and resentment. Afterwards I had an ideal.

Well, here's my challenge to you then... draw your next set of heads with shorn hair. 1mm tops. Varying angles. Let me see some hairlines.

Open this spoiler box after you are done with that:

Spoiler

Show

Now add varying hair styles in a new layer and color to these heads.

Will do!

...there are different types of learning. Some learn by thinking; others learn by physical motion. These two learning types influence the best methods to teach drawing from person to person.

Please read this for further information. Among the other roads mentioned are paths for internal and external thinking. Learning by motion or action is called kinesthetic learning...

This is all quite true, but it's also true that the best way to learn is a combination of techniques and engagement of multiple senses. Imagine the brain like a library with infinite storage space, and your memory is the index card. The more cross-references you add to that index card the easier it becomes to call to mind the appropriate memory. This is why mnemonics advocate coming up with brief phrases or rhymes to establish a clear memory, and why if you have a good idea and you're worried you're going to forget it you should say it out loud. The more levels you learn something on the deeper the knowledge will go.

Day 335: Grind #4

This was a brilliant idea, thank you Domo. It really helped me grock adding hair as an addition to the skull rather than a way of covering it up, and really assisted in the processing of new hair styles.

That said, overall skullshape quality wasn't amazing; I was short of references, so I attempted to eyeball the skull shapes of normally hair'd people. Anyone have a good collection of bald girls (who aren't all dying of cancer, because that's depressing)?

I'll do more practise tonight, if I haven't permanently lost my darned sketchpad.

Bald
Hair

Time: ~1 hour
Music: Everyday is Exactly The Same

[Sean Mirrsen]

Day 335: Grind #4

This was a brilliant idea, thank you Domo.

You could almost say...

Domo Origato.

...
*flees*

[Story Time]

This is all quite true, but it's also true that the best way to learn is a combination of techniques and engagement of multiple senses. Imagine the brain like a library with infinite storage space, and your memory is the index card. The more cross-references you add to that index card the easier it becomes to call to mind the appropriate memory. This is why mnemonics advocate coming up with brief phrases or rhymes to establish a clear memory, and why if you have a good idea and you're worried you're going to forget it you should say it out loud. The more levels you learn something on the deeper the knowledge will go.

This is very true. The phrase commonly used to identify the divisions in this ideology is state-related-learning.

[Thanqol]

Day 336: Grind #5

Right. Getting the hang of this. I might put this aside tomorrow and do something with paints, 'cause I'm missing paints, but I'll add a face or two to my daily practise to keep my hand in. I'll keep the focus on this general topic. There's still a lot of practise to be done before it becomes natural, or looks good, but I've started to develop a process.

Bald'd
Hair'd

Time: 45 mins
Music: 21st Century Cure

[Domochevsky]

Thanqol, mah boi, what is up with that lack of a proper neckline in all your tests so far?

[Zorg]

And yes, yes, I know the theory. I will be trying a range of things in this process, but ultimately I want to not do another detailed, precise and realistic picture. I am capable of making heads look right if I spend +45 minutes working on the details. I would very much like to be able to do that better, faster, which is the objective of this process.

“I used to draw like Raphael, but it has taken me a whole lifetime to learn to draw like a child” - Picasso.

Picasso had to learn the fundamentals of realistic drawing before he could break it down properly, as do most non-realistic artists (Brett Whitley could draw amazingly well, shame he chose not to). Drawing a cartoon isn't creating a picture of a cartoon person - it's rendering a realistic person as a cartoon.
Mastering, or at least studying, the art of the realistic (or even semi-realistic) figure will greatly improve your cartooning ability. Those things you linked above as 'knowin's wot Thanquol done learned 'bout noggins'? Things you'd pick up studying realistic faces.

It will also help create diversity and consistency in your characters by giving you an understanding of how faces / bodies work, how different features (say, an old, jowly guy) look at different angles and how you can then styalise those. See how Domo's no-hair excercise made you think about skull structure and hair as an integral part of the figure not just somethign slapped on over the top? Same thing but for jawlines, shoulders, brows, hips and so on.


For an excersice the best I can think of is to find a multi-angle shot of a relatively reasitic face or three. (CGI renders would work great - if you can't google any up, try youtube and some rotation vids or something, or else load up Fallout or Skyrim and rotate the flycam).
Then draw them in your chosen style from as many different angles as you can. The focus of the exercise is to concerntrate on keeping details and character of the subject recognisable throughout, but also to see how those details appear from different angles.

Example: This video. Not the type of person you'd normally draw, right? So how do their facial features (or Julia Gillard's, or Molly Meldrums' [sorry, looking at the paper a minute ago, but not everyone is a supermodel]) transfer into the style of Thanquol?

Another thought is to take pictures (as in photos) and Thanquolfy them - someone laughing uproariously, someone crying, that sort of thing. Also from different angles and poses. Keep your style, but make the picture less a simple thing, but a simplification of a complex thing.
My own semi-realistic style has vastly improved since I stopped trying to learn how to draw it better and learnt how to draw reality better as I learnt about applying stuff like proportions, weight/balance, consistent facial structure and whatnot. The basic process is the same, but stripped down to a degree, and made more complex to another.

[Purple Tentacle]

Can I suggest investigating Andrew Loomis's art instruction books. I belive they're pretty well regarded amongst artists and they've gotten to that stage were they are public domain and can be downloaded from here:
http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index..../andrew_loomis

Loomis's books are great because they're focused towards setting up a repeatable framework to build an illustration from. If you wanted a book to describe how each muscle works under stress and name all the bones in the human hand well there are books for that too and would work great as a follow-up to these. But I like these books because they arn't sleep unducingly analytical. They keep you engaged and give you practical knowledge that will build consistency and confidence. Like Zorg and Sean have said you don't want to build on a wonky foundation. Having gaps in your knowledge of anatomy will stunt your development and ultimately come back to bite you on the butt.

Until recently I had a pretty inflated opinion of what a great drawer I was but truth is I'm not all that good. I'd gotten by ok drawing from observation which i am pretty good at but my overall practical knowledge of anatomy, lighting, shading, etc were woefully underveloped. So much like yourself I need to start from scratch and learn the basics anew. I'm not sure how I'm going to keep motivated but this thread right here is pretty good inspiration. Your persistence is to be much admired I hope to see you to continue to improve.

[Story Time]

Spoiler

Show

“I used to draw like Raphael, but it has taken me a whole lifetime to learn to draw like a child” - Picasso.

Picasso had to learn the fundamentals of realistic drawing before he could break it down properly, as do most non-realistic artists (Brett Whitley could draw amazingly well, shame he chose not to). Drawing a cartoon isn't creating a picture of a cartoon person - it's rendering a realistic person as a cartoon.
Mastering, or at least studying, the art of the realistic (or even semi-realistic) figure will greatly improve your cartooning ability. Those things you linked above as 'knowin's wot Thanquol done learned 'bout noggins'? Things you'd pick up studying realistic faces.

It will also help create diversity and consistency in your characters by giving you an understanding of how faces / bodies work, how different features (say, an old, jowly guy) look at different angles and how you can then styalise those. See how Domo's no-hair excercise made you think about skull structure and hair as an integral part of the figure not just somethign slapped on over the top? Same thing but for jawlines, shoulders, brows, hips and so on.


For an excersice the best I can think of is to find a multi-angle shot of a relatively reasitic face or three. (CGI renders would work great - if you can't google any up, try youtube and some rotation vids or something, or else load up Fallout or Skyrim and rotate the flycam).
Then draw them in your chosen style from as many different angles as you can. The focus of the exercise is to concerntrate on keeping details and character of the subject recognisable throughout, but also to see how those details appear from different angles.

Example: This video. Not the type of person you'd normally draw, right? So how do their facial features (or Julia Gillard's, or Molly Meldrums' [sorry, looking at the paper a minute ago, but not everyone is a supermodel]) transfer into the style of Thanquol?

Another thought is to take pictures (as in photos) and Thanquolfy them - someone laughing uproariously, someone crying, that sort of thing. Also from different angles and poses. Keep your style, but make the picture less a simple thing, but a simplification of a complex thing.
My own semi-realistic style has vastly improved since I stopped trying to learn how to draw it better and learnt how to draw reality better as I learnt about applying stuff like proportions, weight/balance, consistent facial structure and whatnot. The basic process is the same, but stripped down to a degree, and made more complex to another.

Thanqol-fy...

[Lix Lorn]

Right. Getting the hang of this. I might put this aside tomorrow and do something with paints, 'cause I'm missing paints,

I read that as pants.

Also you have awesome taste in music.