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  1. - Top - End - #1231
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domochevsky View Post
    Thanqol, mah boi, what is up with that lack of a proper neckline in all your tests so far?
    NO TIME FOR NECKS

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    “I used to draw like Raphael, but it has taken me a whole lifetime to learn to draw like a child” - Picasso.

    Picasso had to learn the fundamentals of realistic drawing before he could break it down properly, as do most non-realistic artists (Brett Whitley could draw amazingly well, shame he chose not to). Drawing a cartoon isn't creating a picture of a cartoon person - it's rendering a realistic person as a cartoon.
    Mastering, or at least studying, the art of the realistic (or even semi-realistic) figure will greatly improve your cartooning ability. Those things you linked above as 'knowin's wot Thanquol done learned 'bout noggins'? Things you'd pick up studying realistic faces.
    I've found that the process of trying to draw realistic faces gets me trapped in sidelines of shading, hair and other things that distract me from learning basic skull structure. Doesn't mean I shouldn't use real references, I should, just means I've got to actually have a process. A lot of the faces in these recent grinds have been from photos.

    It will also help create diversity and consistency in your characters by giving you an understanding of how faces / bodies work, how different features (say, an old, jowly guy) look at different angles and how you can then styalise those. See how Domo's no-hair excercise made you think about skull structure and hair as an integral part of the figure not just somethign slapped on over the top? Same thing but for jawlines, shoulders, brows, hips and so on.
    I need to find a much larger reference archive. My pictures folder is simply unsuitable for the task.

    For an excersice the best I can think of is to find a multi-angle shot of a relatively reasitic face or three. (CGI renders would work great - if you can't google any up, try youtube and some rotation vids or something, or else load up Fallout or Skyrim and rotate the flycam).
    Then draw them in your chosen style from as many different angles as you can. The focus of the exercise is to concerntrate on keeping details and character of the subject recognisable throughout, but also to see how those details appear from different angles.
    *Nod* Been trying things like this, actually. Will do more!

    Example: This video. Not the type of person you'd normally draw, right? So how do their facial features (or Julia Gillard's, or Molly Meldrums' [sorry, looking at the paper a minute ago, but not everyone is a supermodel]) transfer into the style of Thanquol?

    Another thought is to take pictures (as in photos) and Thanquolfy them - someone laughing uproariously, someone crying, that sort of thing. Also from different angles and poses. Keep your style, but make the picture less a simple thing, but a simplification of a complex thing.
    My own semi-realistic style has vastly improved since I stopped trying to learn how to draw it better and learnt how to draw reality better as I learnt about applying stuff like proportions, weight/balance, consistent facial structure and whatnot. The basic process is the same, but stripped down to a degree, and made more complex to another.
    What I'm ultimately angling towards, but this helped structure that thought and my approach to it significantly better .

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Tentacle View Post
    Can I suggest investigating Andrew Loomis's art instruction books. I belive they're pretty well regarded amongst artists and they've gotten to that stage were they are public domain and can be downloaded from here:
    http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index..../andrew_loomis

    Loomis's books are great because they're focused towards setting up a repeatable framework to build an illustration from. If you wanted a book to describe how each muscle works under stress and name all the bones in the human hand well there are books for that too and would work great as a follow-up to these. But I like these books because they arn't sleep unducingly analytical. They keep you engaged and give you practical knowledge that will build consistency and confidence. Like Zorg and Sean have said you don't want to build on a wonky foundation. Having gaps in your knowledge of anatomy will stunt your development and ultimately come back to bite you on the butt.
    Thanks for the links! I'll go over some of these tonight!

    Until recently I had a pretty inflated opinion of what a great drawer I was but truth is I'm not all that good. I'd gotten by ok drawing from observation which i am pretty good at but my overall practical knowledge of anatomy, lighting, shading, etc were woefully underveloped. So much like yourself I need to start from scratch and learn the basics anew. I'm not sure how I'm going to keep motivated but this thread right here is pretty good inspiration. Your persistence is to be much admired I hope to see you to continue to improve.
    I'm glad I could inspire! Doing that is the most rewarding part of the entire thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Also you have awesome taste in music.
    I do! I was actually wondering if anyone clicked those links. I've kept putting them there as an emergency archive to rebuild my media library from if I ever suffer some kind of computerapocalypse. Also useful when people ask me for music links.

    GENERAL QUESTION

    From time to time, I see things like this and I'm just left kind of speechless. I have no idea what the possible advantages are to a pencil sketch so complicated could be. Do you just keep adding lines until you've somehow got a vague structure and then take the median lines or what? Why do people do this? How does it help? Should I be doing this?


    Day 337: What You Always Wanted To Be

    Progress!

    Not perfect, but it was great fun to do and I like the finished product. Nice to have sorted Stephanie's colour scheme too.

    Links

    EDIT: Added shoulders

    Time: 2 hours.
    Music: Right Where It Belongs
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-04-19 at 08:50 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #1232
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Seeing as you're doing that grind thing, I guess you won't have the time or inclination to my avatar thingy, eh?

    Well, that's fine. I mean, you're trying to learn how to draw, I'm only trying to reap the benefits of your charity via badgering you. Feel free to continue doing your thingy.

  3. - Top - End - #1233
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot View Post
    Seeing as you're doing that grind thing, I guess you won't have the time or inclination to my avatar thingy, eh?

    Well, that's fine. I mean, you're trying to learn how to draw, I'm only trying to reap the benefits of your charity via badgering you. Feel free to continue doing your thingy.
    The huh? Oh! I didn't actually register it as a request.

    Still, my request rules more or less runs under 'be specific, be detailed, be interesting'. I'm way more likely to do it if it seems like a cool idea.

  4. - Top - End - #1234
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    GENERAL QUESTION

    From time to time, I see things like this and I'm just left kind of speechless. I have no idea what the possible advantages are to a pencil sketch so complicated could be. Do you just keep adding lines until you've somehow got a vague structure and then take the median lines or what? Why do people do this? How does it help? Should I be doing this?
    I do this when I've only the vaguest idea of what I want to see, and try to lay down lines to see if I can see it. So in effect, yes, what you described. It's a lot easier to work with afterwards if you're drawing digital though.

    For you, I don't think it'll ever be necessary. You seem to have no troubles seeing what you want to draw, and drawing what you want to see.
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  5. - Top - End - #1235
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    The huh? Oh! I didn't actually register it as a request.

    Still, my request rules more or less runs under 'be specific, be detailed, be interesting'. I'm way more likely to do it if it seems like a cool idea.
    Alright, um, well, chibi-fied Candles hiding behind something, with only parts of his arms showing (besides his face), and totally embarrassed looking. Maybe a Lix Lorn fleeing off-panel with his torn-up robes. Does that work?

  6. - Top - End - #1236
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I've found that the process of trying to draw realistic faces gets me trapped in sidelines of shading, hair and other things that distract me from learning basic skull structure. Doesn't mean I shouldn't use real references, I should, just means I've got to actually have a process. A lot of the faces in these recent grinds have been from photos.
    Try drawing them as just line art, like the meme faces. Get used to face structures and the like, but not do shading and such.



    I need to find a much larger reference archive. My pictures folder is simply unsuitable for the task.
    iStockphoto and the like are actually really good for sourcing images, as you can search through tags and related images - even through poses and moods.


    *Nod* Been trying things like this, actually. Will do more!

    What I'm ultimately angling towards, but this helped structure that thought and my approach to it significantly better .
    Happy to help

    One great advantage to drawing a wide variety of subjects from life in stylised form is you'll be able to develop your own method and style better. For instance today's pic is very Dresden Codak (I should also say it's very good), but it lacks something of Thanqol that your other pics have.
    If you take something/someone that you've never seen done by Diaz and draw it - of course take lessons learnt from him and elsewhere - but not having any guidelines to work towards, only from, could be an interesting exercise.
    For something different, try these pics: 1, 2, 3, 4.


    GENERAL QUESTION

    From time to time, I see things like this and I'm just left kind of speechless. I have no idea what the possible advantages are to a pencil sketch so complicated could be. Do you just keep adding lines until you've somehow got a vague structure and then take the median lines or what? Why do people do this? How does it help? Should I be doing this?
    My girlfriend often does a sketch in pencil / pen, and then traces it into her tablet and I, being much more of a luddite, do something similar in just sketching up rough models and poses then tracing them (the old fashion way), but more refined.
    Could just be that the artist finds sketching/working out the form in pencil easier so does it that way.
    Last edited by Zorg; 2012-04-19 at 01:10 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #1237
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Day 337: What You Always Wanted To Be
    Nice! Progress in most of everything. The eyes are pretty and deep, more than normal.

    I also noticed the color choice of the iris. ( :D )

    The shadows...actually seem to blend into what could be dirt-smudge. The background is also very fitting and the image as a whole is kind of...evocative ( thought / feeling provoking; not the other evocative ).

    This one is very good, Thanqol. The lines are nice and neat, even adjusting for perspective.

  8. - Top - End - #1238
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot View Post
    Alright, um, well, chibi-fied Candles hiding behind something, with only parts of his arms showing (besides his face), and totally embarrassed looking. Maybe a Lix Lorn fleeing off-panel with his torn-up robes. Does that work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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  9. - Top - End - #1239
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Mirrsen View Post
    I do this when I've only the vaguest idea of what I want to see, and try to lay down lines to see if I can see it. So in effect, yes, what you described. It's a lot easier to work with afterwards if you're drawing digital though.

    For you, I don't think it'll ever be necessary. You seem to have no troubles seeing what you want to draw, and drawing what you want to see.
    Right, good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot View Post
    Alright, um, well, chibi-fied Candles hiding behind something, with only parts of his arms showing (besides his face), and totally embarrassed looking. Maybe a Lix Lorn fleeing off-panel with his torn-up robes. Does that work?
    Hmm, we'll see. Chibis aren't fantastic practise so it'll probably be a day when I don't have time for anything more complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    Try drawing them as just line art, like the meme faces. Get used to face structures and the like, but not do shading and such.
    Good idea.

    iStockphoto and the like are actually really good for sourcing images, as you can search through tags and related images - even through poses and moods.
    Thanks!

    Happy to help

    One great advantage to drawing a wide variety of subjects from life in stylised form is you'll be able to develop your own method and style better. For instance today's pic is very Dresden Codak (I should also say it's very good), but it lacks something of Thanqol that your other pics have.
    If you take something/someone that you've never seen done by Diaz and draw it - of course take lessons learnt from him and elsewhere - but not having any guidelines to work towards, only from, could be an interesting exercise.
    That is a good plan, and part of the nebulous structure in my head. I wanted to get a decent understanding of how the process happens at all before I begin applying it to original compositions. I'm looking forwards to doing so; now I know that I'm roughly capable of the relevant style I want to start applying it to new things!

    For something different, try these pics: 1, 2, 3, 4.
    Will look at these tomorrow!

    My girlfriend often does a sketch in pencil / pen, and then traces it into her tablet and I, being much more of a luddite, do something similar in just sketching up rough models and poses then tracing them (the old fashion way), but more refined.
    Could just be that the artist finds sketching/working out the form in pencil easier so does it that way.
    *Nod nod*

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    Nice! Progress in most of everything. The eyes are pretty and deep, more than normal.

    I also noticed the color choice of the iris. ( :D )
    It was a good idea on the eyes, thank you

    Honestly, if all the pony practise has done one thing for me it's taught me how to do pretty irises.

    The shadows...actually seem to blend into what could be dirt-smudge. The background is also very fitting and the image as a whole is kind of...evocative ( thought / feeling provoking; not the other evocative ).

    This one is very good, Thanqol. The lines are nice and neat, even adjusting for perspective.
    Thanks!

    Day 338: Adventure!

    Original composition! Despite my initial misgivings, the cape does look good on Stephanie. Few niggles and tweaks I have looking at this one, but overall I feel it's relatively well proportioned and designed, and I wouldn't mind colouring this.

    The plan for the immediate future is to trawl through the various links people have thrown my way and try some various tutorials. I'm feeling a pretty good upswing coming and I'm psyched for more art. Nothing's quite as encouraging as seeing the results of progress.

    Links

    Time: 1 hour
    Music: Hurt

  10. - Top - End - #1240
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    In Spoilers To Protect Thanqol's Up-Swing:
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Day 338: Adventure!
    Is...is that a barb-wire wrestling ring?!

    What is she supposed to do in there?

    On second thought, maybe I don't want to know...

    Hm. Thoughts.

    A better hand than normal. The scarf appears to fit as does the upper torso clothing and the upper part of the sweat pants. Every-thing else that I could comment on Thanqol probably already knows. Most of them proportion...

    There is a...sharp...angular...object poking out of the cape and I wonder how that got there. But the cape seems to fit, mostly. The portion of it over the right shoulder is probably the best area.

    Yes, I think this one fits as a solid application-of-experience piece.

  11. - Top - End - #1241
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    In Spoilers To Protect Thanqol's Up-Swing:
    My upswing is not so frail a thing! Spoiler not! Have at!
    Is...is that a barb-wire wrestling ring?!

    What is she supposed to do in there?

    On second thought, maybe I don't want to know...
    If it helps, in my head it's on top of a skyscraper! =D

    Don't worry. She totally saw this medical documentary on SBS the other day.
    Hm. Thoughts.

    A better hand than normal.
    GARBLYUHARGLE HANDS

    Yes, I think this one fits as a solid application-of-experience piece. [/SPOILER]
    Yar.

    Day 339: Wouldn't It Be Wonderful?

    Links

    BOOYAH

    There will be another piece tomorrow. Posting this as Day 339 because I finished it after midnight.

    Time: 2 hours
    Music: Clearly Quite Absurd

    I want to comment on this song in particular. I've been listening to a lot of fantastic music recently but I think this one, in particular, reflects my mind like no other song has. I've been in this mood for a while now, a lonely reflection on the lives of people around me.

    It's really quite solitary, being sane.

  12. - Top - End - #1242
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Pretty nice, but a little patchy. The pose is believable, there may be some oddness about the stage-left arm's length (too short?), but that might be just a visual artifact due to the pose and the hair covering the stage-right shoulder. The size of the stage-left hand might also be an issue... All in all, not sure which parts are unfinished, but looks good so far.
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  13. - Top - End - #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Is prettyful!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  14. - Top - End - #1244
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Day 339: Wouldn't It Be Wonderful?
    That space has been Thanqol-fied!





    Musings For Zorg And Thanqol:
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    Zorg totally has credit for my saying that.


    When I first read that greatly creative word, Thanqol-fy ( it's so neat to say! ), I automatically saw this story behind it in my mind. See, what happened was that Thank You met Thanks and had a child, Thankies. Thankies then met Thankles, fell in love, and produced Thanqol Fi You.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    GARBLYUHARGLE HANDS
    Yes, I sympathize. Little by little I see Thanqol improving. The hands in Day 339's image are better than previous. What I mean specifically are the individual fingers. The piece is pretty, if dark. While the scarf is absent the invention of the orange twined draw strings adds a splash of color where it should be. The blue-flame-gem-...thing is attractive. The expression on the character's face is communicative which is exactly the kind of thing that an artist should be interested in. The audience looks at the image and feels some-thing by doing so.

    The drawn lines of the image appear to be all neat and orderly like they should, though with so much dark coloring there could be some discrepancies hidden from a first-glance-gaze. I can see why Thanqol mentioned missing paints. Thanqol is good with them.

    She actually looks like a girl wearing sweats. I'm sure that was the point.

    Good job, Thanqol. This one should definitely receive some sort of award.
    Last edited by Story Time; 2012-04-20 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Added Single Important Statement

  15. - Top - End - #1245
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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Mirrsen View Post
    Pretty nice, but a little patchy. The pose is believable, there may be some oddness about the stage-left arm's length (too short?), but that might be just a visual artifact due to the pose and the hair covering the stage-right shoulder. The size of the stage-left hand might also be an issue... All in all, not sure which parts are unfinished, but looks good so far.
    Duly noted. This is one of those pictures that should have more than one sitting spent on it

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Is prettyful!
    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    That space has been Thanqol-fied!

    When I first read that greatly creative word, Thanqol-fy ( it's so neat to say! ), I automatically saw this story behind it in my mind. See, what happened was that Thank You met Thanks and had a child, Thankies. Thankies then met Thankles, fell in love, and produced Thanqol Fi You.
    Would you believe that when I picked the name Thanqol for myself I did not foresee this line of reasoning?

    Yes, I sympathize. Little by little I see Thanqol improving. The hands in Day 339's image are better than previous. What I mean specifically are the individual fingers. The piece is pretty, if dark. While the scarf is absent the invention of the orange twined draw strings adds a splash of color where it should be. The blue-flame-gem-...thing is attractive. The expression on the character's face is communicative which is exactly the kind of thing that an artist should be interested in. The audience looks at the image and feels some-thing by doing so.

    The drawn lines of the image appear to be all neat and orderly like they should, though with so much dark coloring there could be some discrepancies hidden from a first-glance-gaze. I can see why Thanqol mentioned missing paints. Thanqol is good with them.

    She actually looks like a girl wearing sweats. I'm sure that was the point.

    Good job, Thanqol. This one should definitely receive some sort of award.
    ...Thank... you!

    Day 339a: The Art Knows

    I was busy so I tried to half-ass something to get tonight's drawing practise out of the way, and as a way to wind down after a fairly grindy week artwise.

    Everything I produced was sheer rubbish. The art knows when your heart isn't in it. The art has no tolerance for your lazy bulldust.

    So I buckled up, decided, "It'll take as long as it takes", and started drawing. And once I did that the picture happened quickly and happened well. The art is forgiving. But the art knows when you're trying to pull a fast one. The art knows when you're disrespecting it.

    Links

    Time: 20 minutes +15 minutes of faffing
    Music: Rolling In The Deep
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-04-21 at 06:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Hey SiuiS. Coloured some of your art.

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    You've come a long way, man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Would you believe that when I picked the name Thanqol for myself I did not foresee this line of reasoning?
    What? But your assertions should conform to my theories!

    ...more seriously, it was just a fun little thought. Zorg made a neat word and I thought it was...inspirational, of a sort. I think Thanqol is a unique name.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Day 339a: The Art Knows
    Blather:
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    Well, Thanqol must be learning some-thing. He's starting to sound like a vorlon.

    Despite the...metaphoric flavor of Thanqol's observations, some of it does appear to be true. "Reduce expectations to zero and practice, practice, practice," can also mean to divest one's self of the expectation of time. The art itself may not have sapience, but the amount of work and detail put into each piece is then displayed by that piece and viewers can then see what the image contains. If a particular image contains less detail compared to others than the audience will likely be able to detect that.

    So, in a metaphorical sense, the art does know. It knows in the sense that it tells others some-thing about the artist.

    ...just some metaphorical thoughts...



    Comments:
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    I look at this image and I automatically think, "Jedi." I'm not sure why. It's definitely better than rubbish. There are issues and I'm sure Thanqol knows all about them so I won't make a big parade of them. I like the scar on the right cheek. The eye wound is...not-exactly-right. It's too messy. There should be rounded shapes to indicate scar tissue, but I can also understand the choice to just sketch them out.

    That left eye actually looks like it belongs inside the head so that is an obvious improvement. The hair...is okay. It kind of makes me think that Art-The-Jedi got into a fight with a lawn-mower at the hair-dresser's shop. But...neither do I think that I could draw better representation of this piece.

    There's a...thing...under the character's right ear. What is that? What is its purpose?

    A moving-toward-improvement piece, I think.

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    Default Re: Thanqol Learns To Draw!

    Your new character is adorable, and I'm really liking all the drawings of her that your doing. You can really see her personality in some of these drawings, without you needing to say a word about her. I especially like the
    one from day 339. The expression is great, and you did a good job on the lighting.


    On the grind: Heads are hard. I can see some definite improvement over the course of this grind. I think you mentioned how you were having some trouble with the traditional method of drawing heads (draw head shape, draw lines across it for the eyes and the middle of the face). I had trouble with it as well, and what helped me was the method presented in this tutorial. It's a big tutorial that covers a lot more than just heads, but the way to get to the bit on heads is People -> Drawing a head. The method isn't hugely different, and I'm not sure if it'll help you or not, but it lead to a major breakthrough for me.

    Another thing that you can do with drawing heads would be either ask a female friend or two if you can take some pictures of their heads from various different angles, with various different expressions, or you could draw from reference some female characters from a live action tv show that you watch a lot. The point of that would be so that you can actually recognize the friend/character in your drawing, and you'll end up thinking about what makes that particular person's face unique, which will help you with making the faces of your own characters more unique and consistent.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    GENERAL QUESTION

    From time to time, I see things like this and I'm just left kind of speechless. I have no idea what the possible advantages are to a pencil sketch so complicated could be. Do you just keep adding lines until you've somehow got a vague structure and then take the median lines or what? Why do people do this? How does it help? Should I be doing this?
    That's exactly how I sketch. I admit, I'm probably really biased towards this kind of sketching, but I'll do my best to describe why and how I do it, and how it helps. I don't really remember when I started sketching like that, but the moment I did, my art improved dramatically. It both helps you flesh out the image in your head if it isn't super clear, and it also feels so much more . . . fluid. After I started sketching like that, it was like everything I drew had so much more life and movement to it. While it looks like it would be a pain to deal with all those extra lines, it actually isn't. They way I do it is I draw the basic lines very lightly, which are generally super chaotic, and slowly start to refine them, using darker and darker lines. The lighter lines just sort of . . . fade away. I erase them a bit as I go, and I think that some also just get smudged away. I've never had any problems with taking a rough sketch like the one you linked and turning it into a completely finished, clean drawing, on the same piece of paper, with no tracing or anything. This is why I usually sketch with paper and pencil, even if the final product is going to be digital. It just feels so much freer, and is part of why I enjoy sketching so much. If you'd like, I can upload some of my sketches in various states of chaotic-ness or refined-ness, to better show how it works.

    I personally would recommend that you try out sketching like that, but like I said earlier, I'm very biased.


    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    Well, Thanqol must be learning some-thing. He's starting to sound like a vorlon.
    I actually laughed out loud at this, because I thought the exact same thing when I saw that. A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    You've come a long way, man.
    And I've got a long way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    What? But your assertions should conform to my theories!

    ...more seriously, it was just a fun little thought. Zorg made a neat word and I thought it was...inspirational, of a sort. I think Thanqol is a unique name.
    "Grey Seer Thanquol", my namesake, is a Warhammer Fantasy character. He's a Skaven (rat-man) wizard who was the most megalomaniac jerk of all time. Whenever things go remotely well he started planning out the details of the 50-foot statue of himself he'd build when he returned home in triumph. Whenever things turned against him he blamed his imaginary enemies who sent him defective minions who deliberately got themselves killed to spite him.

    He was the best villain of all time. I've worked hard to be worthy of carrying his name.

    Blather:
    Well, Thanqol must be learning some-thing. He's starting to sound like a vorlon.
    I thought you said 'vogon' there and I was thinking, "Gosh, that's a bit harsh?"

    Despite the...metaphoric flavor of Thanqol's observations, some of it does appear to be true. "Reduce expectations to zero and practice, practice, practice," can also mean to divest one's self of the expectation of time. The art itself may not have sapience, but the amount of work and detail put into each piece is then displayed by that piece and viewers can then see what the image contains. If a particular image contains less detail compared to others than the audience will likely be able to detect that.

    So, in a metaphorical sense, the art does know. It knows in the sense that it tells others some-thing about the artist.

    ...just some metaphorical thoughts...
    A wise thought.

    The hair...is okay. It kind of makes me think that Art-The-Jedi got into a fight with a lawn-mower at the hair-dresser's shop. But...neither do I think that I could draw better representation of this piece.
    I still haven't figured out a technique for doing hair that I remotely like.

    There's a...thing...under the character's right ear. What is that? What is its purpose?
    Hair-drift.

    A moving-toward-improvement piece, I think. [/SPOILER]
    Male faces are disgustingly easy to do compared to female faces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silviya View Post
    Your new character is adorable, and I'm really liking all the drawings of her that your doing. You can really see her personality in some of these drawings, without you needing to say a word about her. I especially like the
    one from day 339. The expression is great, and you did a good job on the lighting.
    Awesome, that's what I want to learn above all else as a drawster.

    On the grind: Heads are hard. I can see some definite improvement over the course of this grind. I think you mentioned how you were having some trouble with the traditional method of drawing heads (draw head shape, draw lines across it for the eyes and the middle of the face). I had trouble with it as well, and what helped me was the method presented in this tutorial. It's a big tutorial that covers a lot more than just heads, but the way to get to the bit on heads is People -> Drawing a head. The method isn't hugely different, and I'm not sure if it'll help you or not, but it lead to a major breakthrough for me.
    I shall give it a look over!

    Another thing that you can do with drawing heads would be either ask a female friend or two
    hahhaha

    if you can take some pictures of their heads from various different angles, with various different expressions, or you could draw from reference some female characters from a live action tv show that you watch a lot. The point of that would be so that you can actually recognize the friend/character in your drawing, and you'll end up thinking about what makes that particular person's face unique, which will help you with making the faces of your own characters more unique and consistent.
    This seems like a good plan. I might give it a try with White Collar; lot of improbably pretty people in that show.



    That's exactly how I sketch. I admit, I'm probably really biased towards this kind of sketching, but I'll do my best to describe why and how I do it, and how it helps. I don't really remember when I started sketching like that, but the moment I did, my art improved dramatically. It both helps you flesh out the image in your head if it isn't super clear, and it also feels so much more . . . fluid. After I started sketching like that, it was like everything I drew had so much more life and movement to it. While it looks like it would be a pain to deal with all those extra lines, it actually isn't. They way I do it is I draw the basic lines very lightly, which are generally super chaotic, and slowly start to refine them, using darker and darker lines. The lighter lines just sort of . . . fade away. I erase them a bit as I go, and I think that some also just get smudged away. I've never had any problems with taking a rough sketch like the one you linked and turning it into a completely finished, clean drawing, on the same piece of paper, with no tracing or anything. This is why I usually sketch with paper and pencil, even if the final product is going to be digital. It just feels so much freer, and is part of why I enjoy sketching so much. If you'd like, I can upload some of my sketches in various states of chaotic-ness or refined-ness, to better show how it works.
    Oh, I would like that. Problem is, though, my pen and paper skills are neglected and rubbish. I don't really know the array of settings for best replicating this type of linework in SAI... hmm, might be able to do something similar with transparency layers?

    I personally would recommend that you try out sketching like that, but like I said earlier, I'm very biased.
    When I am stuck with P&P I'll start doing it, fo' sho'

    I actually laughed out loud at this, because I thought the exact same thing when I saw that. A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles . . .
    I really need to watch Babylon 5.

    Day 340: Easy As Lying

    Pony Season 2 spoilers.

    First thing that came to mind during the episode.

    Links

    Time: 1 hour 15 mins
    Music: Princess Mi Amore Cadenza & Shining Armour
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-04-22 at 05:39 AM.

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    Silviya:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    Well, Thanqol must be learning some-thing. He's starting to sound like a vorlon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silviya View Post
    I actually laughed out loud at this, because I thought the exact same thing when I saw that. A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles . . .
    I know! I'm so pleased that you thought the same.

    Gee, I wish the Talia character had been able to come back. According to Joe's personal e-mail he had planned out the character's return, but the actress wasn't able to for some reason.



    Thanqol:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    "Grey Seer Thanquol", my namesake, is a Warhammer Fantasy character.
    I...

    Um... I don't know what a vogon is nor do I want to...


    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    A wise thought.
    ...thank you for saying so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    I...

    Um... I don't know what a vogon is nor do I want to...
    Vogon Poetry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    "Grey Seer Thanquol", my namesake, is a Warhammer Fantasy character. He's a Skaven (rat-man) wizard who was the most megalomaniac jerk of all time. Whenever things go remotely well he started planning out the details of the 50-foot statue of himself he'd build when he returned home in triumph. Whenever things turned against him he blamed his imaginary enemies who sent him defective minions who deliberately got themselves killed to spite him.

    He was the best villain of all time. I've worked hard to be worthy of carrying his name.
    Skaven are the BEST.
    It's only fitting that Thanqol be one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  23. - Top - End - #1253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Skaven are the BEST.
    It's only fitting that Thanqol be one.
    Ah, a fellow scholar of the arts I see!

    Day 341: For The Emprah!

    Emperor Norton of the USA was an enormous badass. If you don't know who he was, look him up.

    This is ultra rushed and barely more than a sketch layer, but classes have started again. Mostly useful for basic blocking practise.

    Links

    Time: 25 mins
    Music: Pills

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    "Grey Seer Thanquol", my namesake, is a Warhammer Fantasy character. He's a Skaven (rat-man) wizard who was the most megalomaniac jerk of all time. Whenever things go remotely well he started planning out the details of the 50-foot statue of himself he'd build when he returned home in triumph. Whenever things turned against him he blamed his imaginary enemies who sent him defective minions who deliberately got themselves killed to spite him.

    He was the best villain of all time. I've worked hard to be worthy of carrying his name.
    That sounds incredibly awesome.


    Oh, I would like that. Problem is, though, my pen and paper skills are neglected and rubbish. I don't really know the array of settings for best replicating this type of linework in SAI... hmm, might be able to do something similar with transparency layers?
    I'll probably be able to upload some sketches tomorrow and go over my process some. I was planning on doing it today, but one of my dogs was bitten by a rattlesnake and we had to rush her to the vet, which kind of took up my whole day (she's going to be okay, but we weren't sure for a little bit).

    I think that you can still sketch digitally just fine, just use density control and have the brush set to about 50% opacity at first, and maybe use a few different layers for the different stages of sketching, if you want to get really detailed, clean lineart. I mainly sketch with pencil and paper because it's what I'm used to. Also, have you tried out mechanical pencils? Usually, when I sketch, I start with a pretty big rough pencil to get the basic shape down, and then I switch to a mechanical pencil for the harder lines and the details.


    I really need to watch Babylon 5.
    Yes, you do . Both because it's the best thing ever and you'll love it, and because if you watch it, there's a chance you'll do fanart for it. Which would be awesome. There isn't enough Babylon 5 fanart out there.



    Story Time:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    I know! I'm so pleased that you thought the same.

    Gee, I wish the Talia character had been able to come back. According to Joe's personal e-mail he had planned out the character's return, but the actress wasn't able to for some reason.
    I'll admit, I'm on a bit of a B5 high at the moment (I guess that's what happens when you watch 2-3 episodes a night for over two months straight. I'm almost to the end of season 4), so I was very happy to see that there are other B5 fans in this thread

    And I agree about the Talia thing. I was really liking her character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Ah, a fellow scholar of the arts I see!
    Yup! I even ordered the new skaven book to read through it.
    it arrived in GERMAN. Sigh.

    You should draw a skaven!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    "Grey Seer Thanquol", my namesake, is a Warhammer Fantasy character. He's a Skaven (rat-man) wizard who was the most megalomaniac jerk of all time. Whenever things go remotely well he started planning out the details of the 50-foot statue of himself he'd build when he returned home in triumph. Whenever things turned against him he blamed his imaginary enemies who sent him defective minions who deliberately got themselves killed to spite him.

    He was the best villain of all time. I've worked hard to be worthy of carrying his name.
    ...Thanquol and Boneripper. How in the nine hells did I forget about Thanquol and Boneripper? I curse your namesake and his rodent kin!
    Mumblegrumblejezzails

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    Okay, I managed to get the sketches scanned in today. It turns out that I don't really have any that are still in the beginning stages, but there are more unfinished areas in the different sketches. Note that I have no idea if the way I sketch is a good way to sketch or not, or if it will work for anyone but me. I'm mostly self taught, so it's possible that I'm doing everything wrong, but so far, this is the way that's worked best for me. Anyway, hopefully this makes sense and is helpful .

    Spoiler
    Show
    This first one is just a ten minute random doodle I did when I was bored, not a sketch for a larger drawing, but it shows both the cleaned up, finished look of the sketch, in the head and torso and upper arms, and the very chaotic unfinished phase from when I first start sketching, in the legs and hands:

    Spoiler
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    I didn't really have an idea in mind for this one, I just started drawing random sketchy lines, and this is what it turned into. Still, the process is pretty for all my sketches, whether or not I have a clear idea of what I'm drawing beforehand. When I figured out what I was doing, I mainly tried to capture a sense of movement in the sketchy lines, to make it look like the figure was stepping forward, and I tried to convey a sense of purpose, pride, and otherworldliness in the figures body language (I'm not sure how well I accomplished this). I've found that this sort of thing is much easier to convey with lots of loose, fluid lines, and then slowly refining them, keeping and strengthening the lines that have the most movement to them, if that makes sense. I kind of feel like sketching like this is sort of like carving a sculpture, where you have a rough shape to work with, and you slowly refine and shape it until it's what you want it to be.


    Here's another example of a rougher sketch, this time a little thumbnail sketch for a digital piece. Again, I was mainly trying to capture the movement of the dragons wings and pose (ignore the 4+ tails, I was trying to figure out which tail position I liked best and ended up making all the lines too dark, and didn't feel like erasing it).

    Spoiler
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    These are a couple of sketches that I did for one of the main characters of the novel I'm currently working on. I had been trying and failing to draw him for ages, and these sketches are the first ones that I managed to make work. I mostly focused on trying to get the pose and body language right, to get his personality across. Apparently I succeeded, since I asked a friend to describe what they thought his personality was from just looking at the sketch, and they nailed it.

    Spoiler
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    And if you want further reference on how I do it, here some mostly finished sketches, most of which will probably be turned into more complete drawings at some point or another. For all of them, I tried to focus mostly on getting the movement, pose, and anatomy right with the initial chaotic lines, and once I think I've gotten that down, I start to refine the sketch and figure out the details.

    Spoiler
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    (This thing was originally going to have wings, which would be dragging across the ground, but I realized that they didn't really add anything and would hide too much of the legs. The line where the wings would have been is still sort of visible)


    (Yeah, I like drawing angels . . .)


    (I actually didn't really know what I was doing when I drew this. I just sort of drew the figure and the downward facing wings, and then I had the idea for all the little dead birds and the swords in the ground, and a story for this picture evolved in my head. I added the upper pair of wings when I realized that that space was looking too empty and unbalanced)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silviya View Post
    That sounds incredibly awesome.
    'tis. The Trollslayer series the series that really set everything I am in motion.


    I'll probably be able to upload some sketches tomorrow and go over my process some. I was planning on doing it today, but one of my dogs was bitten by a rattlesnake and we had to rush her to the vet, which kind of took up my whole day (she's going to be okay, but we weren't sure for a little bit).
    Eeek! Poor dog

    I think that you can still sketch digitally just fine, just use density control and have the brush set to about 50% opacity at first, and maybe use a few different layers for the different stages of sketching, if you want to get really detailed, clean lineart. I mainly sketch with pencil and paper because it's what I'm used to. Also, have you tried out mechanical pencils? Usually, when I sketch, I start with a pretty big rough pencil to get the basic shape down, and then I switch to a mechanical pencil for the harder lines and the details.
    Thank you for giving specific setting suggestions; I think that's the biggest hard barrier of skill I'm facing right now.

    And I do have some mechanical pencils but my understanding of my tools is limited. Thanks again for the specifics; they do help.

    Yes, you do . Both because it's the best thing ever and you'll love it, and because if you watch it, there's a chance you'll do fanart for it. Which would be awesome. There isn't enough Babylon 5 fanart out there.
    All fanart is pony fanart. So says my 17K-strong pony folder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Yup! I even ordered the new skaven book to read through it.
    it arrived in GERMAN. Sigh.

    You should draw a skaven!
    I am intimidated, because Warhammer art has a very distinctive style (NEVER EVER STOP DETAILING EVEN IF YOUR EYES BLEED). I'll think about how I do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyouhen View Post
    ...Thanquol and Boneripper. How in the nine hells did I forget about Thanquol and Boneripper? I curse your namesake and his rodent kin!
    Mumblegrumblejezzails
    Last I saw Thanquol, he was on Boneripper the 8th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silviya View Post
    This first one is just a ten minute random doodle I did when I was bored, not a sketch for a larger drawing, but it shows both the cleaned up, finished look of the sketch, in the head and torso and upper arms, and the very chaotic unfinished phase from when I first start sketching, in the legs and hands:

    I didn't really have an idea in mind for this one, I just started drawing random sketchy lines, and this is what it turned into. Still, the process is pretty for all my sketches, whether or not I have a clear idea of what I'm drawing beforehand. When I figured out what I was doing, I mainly tried to capture a sense of movement in the sketchy lines, to make it look like the figure was stepping forward, and I tried to convey a sense of purpose, pride, and otherworldliness in the figures body language (I'm not sure how well I accomplished this). I've found that this sort of thing is much easier to convey with lots of loose, fluid lines, and then slowly refining them, keeping and strengthening the lines that have the most movement to them, if that makes sense. I kind of feel like sketching like this is sort of like carving a sculpture, where you have a rough shape to work with, and you slowly refine and shape it until it's what you want it to be.
    Hmm, okay, this stuff is interesting to hear but I'm kinda not seeing how to actually apply it. Posting the pictures in xyber huge resolution would be a help. I get that it's instinctive to a degree and that you were working on a higher level of character design, but it's the technicallities I'm really interested in right now. The stuff about the fluid lines is what I'd like to hear more on.

    Right now, character design is something I get on the conceptual level but really lack on the technical level? Thanks for the help, by the by

    Day 342: Don't Ever Show Me

    Began to apply the swirly-ish line concepts in tonight's P&P sketch. Didn't get a whole bunch done but I feel like there's actually something to this. I'll see where it takes me and, in particular, how well I can apply it to digital art.

    Links

    Time: 30 mins~ sketching
    Music: The Flim Flam Brothers Song (drunk idiot cover. Not really safe for... work?)

  29. - Top - End - #1259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    'tis. The Trollslayer series the series that really set everything I am in motion.
    It also happens to be the single best black library series! Gaunt's Ghosts is up there too, and though I haven't read them, Ciaphas Cain.

    I'm fond of Ben Counter too.

    I am intimidated, because Warhammer art has a very distinctive style (NEVER EVER STOP DETAILING EVEN IF YOUR EYES BLEED). I'll think about how I do it.
    (hopeful nodding)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Hmm, okay, this stuff is interesting to hear but I'm kinda not seeing how to actually apply it. Posting the pictures in xyber huge resolution would be a help. I get that it's instinctive to a degree and that you were working on a higher level of character design, but it's the technicallities I'm really interested in right now. The stuff about the fluid lines is what I'd like to hear more on.

    Right now, character design is something I get on the conceptual level but really lack on the technical level? Thanks for the help, by the by

    Day 342: Don't Ever Show Me

    Began to apply the swirly-ish line concepts in tonight's P&P sketch. Didn't get a whole bunch done but I feel like there's actually something to this. I'll see where it takes me and, in particular, how well I can apply it to digital art.

    Links

    Time: 30 mins~ sketching
    Music: The Flim Flam Brothers Song (drunk idiot cover. Not really safe for... work?)
    flow. Assuming I didn't quote the wrong thing...
    The continual hideous hatching which because a beautifully framed nest of space is for flow. Rather than struggle against nature and conform to hard, sharp lines, you remove the division. You do what feels nice, and a picture emerges comprised entirely of organic curves. You'll notice the examples all have an art noveau feel, where the figure, graceful, is surrounded by psychic ivy that enriches the depth.

    Lawdy I hope that makes sense. I'm like ten minutes from Neptune...
    Er, nap time. Swear that was naoto me.
    ...

    I give up XD.

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