[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 16: Apocalypse Now!

[KnightDisciple]

And what, the Shinigami version would become... an Asauchi?

...actually, that would be completely awesome. Lightsaber-when-sealed Zanpaktou for the win.

...dammit, now I want to make a character whose Shikai is a lightsaber. >.<

*Points to Masaru's shikai*

As for the overall issue, I'd lean towards what Hadrian's saying; the full power of the SS's should be unique to Quincy. The "energy blade" part...eh. I'm sure Vicente will research it, but I don't know if I could justify it being a heavy-duty threat to, if nothing else, other Arrancar. You'd think they'd be able to resist such things most of the time. *Shrugs*

[Nicklance]

*Points to Masaru's shikai*

As for the overall issue, I'd lean towards what Hadrian's saying; the full power of the SS's should be unique to Quincy. The "energy blade" part...eh. I'm sure Vicente will research it, but I don't know if I could justify it being a heavy-duty threat to, if nothing else, other Arrancar. You'd think they'd be able to resist such things most of the time. *Shrugs*

Cuerva is building two military forces, she's interested in arming them with the SS. The officers and others are ideally of Arrancar rank and hence have their own zanpakuto, but the others might be better off armed.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

If they are just swords that transfer the acid touch, they'd really just be hollow-flavored extensions of themselves that they could block with. I don't see any problem with that.

[Draken]

I would like to note that the armor-piercing property of seele schneider is not based on quincy powers, but on the fact that the weapon causes the reishi that comprises the blade (and it is noteworthy that the blade is not made of energy, it is made of particles) to vibrate, becoming akin to a molecular chainsaw.

The vibrating effect is not limited to Seele schneider either, seeing as Cirucchi Thunderwhich had said effect on the wingblades of her resurreccion.

[Nicklance]

Do Hollow users retain that molecular chainsaw effect then?

[KnightDisciple]

Do Hollow users retain that molecular chainsaw effect then?

Mmm. Not sure. Cirucchi had it in her release, but it clearly wasn't some widespread thing. So I'd say "only if that Hollow/Arrancar already had that skill and ability". I'd rather not turn around and see everyone armed with molecular chainsaws (despite the fact that they were drawn like energy blades, and "reishi" seems to start acting like photons at that point, being similar to both matter and energy).

[Prime32]

I was under the impression that a Seele Schneider was more of an amplifier for the Quincy's reishi-absorbing skills than anything else. Because Quincy is more of a skill set than a power set. Maybe a Bount or an Arrancar good at Gonzui could learn how to use one, but otherwise it's like trying to attach a sniper scope to an axe.


...what? I said not active. I didn't say I'd never post here again.

[KnightDisciple]

Right, maybe I should state this more simply:

I would greatly prefer that only Quincy characters be able to effectively use Quincy gear and skills.

Before people point to Cackling Oni, I'd counterpoint that he started as a Quincy in his life, and that his Mask provides a fairly small power boost, in the scheme of things. And I'd also point out he's not going to get any more powerful (though he obviously hasn't shown his full power yet).

This preference extends pretty wide; only characters who are some sort of Hybrid should have access to broader skills sets, and even then there are a boatload of problems associated with them. I'd prefer that characters come up with new and interesting solutions to perceived "power gaps".

The upcoming Tonics and Philters (which I'll try to hash into a larger entry to post somewhere or another) are such a thing; they help Arrancar make up the gap caused by Shinigami Kido, but do so in a uniquely Hollow manner.

[tgva8889]

I second that, KD.

Also, on the Seele Schneider, I was fairly certain that, like Prime says, it amplifies a Quincy's ability to draw and manipulate reishi. Rather than having to draw it in and shape it into the form of an arrow, you just have to draw the reishi against the blade of the Seele Schneider (which probably has some property that makes doing so easier). If you don't already have the ability to manipulate reishi as a Quincy does, a Seele Schneider is just a cool metal pole.

Also, I was away most of yesterday due to travel, but will be around for some of today and tomorrow.

[Draken]

I too would rather see quincy gear only wielded by quincies.

Just saying that molecular chainsaws are not quincy specific... Matter of fact, Von Geister's mandibles have that property in his resurreccion.

[KnightDisciple]

I too would rather see quincy gear only wielded by quincies.

Just saying that molecular chainsaws are not quincy specific... Matter of fact, Von Geister's mandibles have that property in his resurreccion.

So long as only a couple of characters have it, that's not a big deal. If every other Arrancar suddenly gets molecular chainsaws, we might have a problem.

[tgva8889]

Something...different. This is how I wrote Ren Karashi's history.

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Ren Karashi sat alone in the interrogation room.

It was an incredibly unfortunate day for him. They had run out of space elsewhere for the annual psychological review. Apparently every other member of 10th had decided today would be a good day to get their minds reaffirmed. Karashi wasn't afraid, but he was peeved. As a seated officer he had at least expected to be shown to a room. Unfortunately, a few minutes spent prepping the uniform cost him a slot in one of the nice, comfy offices with his review officer.

It was almost 10 minutes before the door opened to a young officer entered. She carried way too many papers in her hands, and when she went to close the door the sound of the slam almost made her drop everything. An intern? Karashi thought. Nervously, she looked at Ren. Something about his face must have been off, because she had barely a glance before she had instinctually backed up against the wall. Probably the smell.

What Karashi suspected was an intern sat across the table from him. Her nose crinkled absentmindedly. "So. Ren Karashi, 17th seat of the 10th Division." Her voice would have sounded authoritative had she not dropped her pen shortly after saying it. She slowly picked it up, blushing as she rose from behind the table. Karashi nodded in response.

"May I ask, Miss…" "Amagi." "Amagi. You are new to this division, yes?" "Yes, I joined 10th only a short while ago." Karashi laughed. "You have nothing to worry about. Just stay calm, follow the procedures you were taught. That's generally how he likes things to be." She nodded and continued. "Um, right, so. 17th Seat Karashi. I suppose we could cover your past first, if that would be alright…" Ren nods.

"Miss Amagi. Do you remember where you were when you were born? No? Didn't think so. Most people don't. It's not important, really. I remember where I grew up. I grew up in the lower districts. Not as far as Zaraki, mind you, but pretty damn far. I mean, you would not have wanted to grow up there. I sure didn't. I got out of that hole as fast as I…"

"Um, 17th Seat Karashi. If you could…"

"Yes, yes. Of course. Sorry, Miss Amagi. I joined Sereitei first through the Kido Corp. I had expressed early on skill in using and manipulating my reiatsu, so I was tapped by Chen - Sorry, Ex-Commander [name]. Some member of the Corp. found me after I tried to steal some of his money. Almost got the bast - guy's sword, too, but he got the jump on me. Anyways, I was brought into the Corp. initially as a bookkeeper and scribe. Had to repay my "debts to society" or something. Turns out when I figured out how to actually cast the spell the Corp. started actually paying attention. They also had to find the damn book and make sure they never let an intern see it again, but hey, at least I got formally inducted into the Corp.

"Turns out I was a pretty good researcher. I got good. Very good. I wasn't casting high-level spells, but I was combining spells at a level that many couldn't manage. There was one spell that I got particularly good at…Here, may I have that pen?"

Miss Amagi looked up from her clipboard. "I'm sorry?" "The pen. May I?" Ren held out his hand. The girl looked down for a moment, then tentatively put it in his hand. It disappeared for a minute, then reappeared. "Not perfect on other solid objects. Still working on that one. But I'm sure you recognized Kyokko. It is one of the most utilitarian Kido, after all. No? Not at all? Geez, you look at me like it's a fu-er, darn magic trick. What do they teach at that academy, anyways?" Miss Amagi opened her mouth to speak, but Karashi cut her off. "I'm sorry. You must think I'm a vulgar - pardon my language - asscrap. Well, I'm not nearly as bad as…well, I'll get to that. Anyways, here's your pen, back to taking notes.

"So, anyways. I got good at Kido. I rose up in the ranks of Kido Corp. from a scribe to a researcher officially, and I quickly put in a lot of time to combining and modifying kido. While many of my plans weren't successful, as you can see I did succeed significantly in one way. In the lab, I unfortunately…caused an incident. I'm sure you know about it in your damn files. I did not fu- sorry - damn cause that accident. I was not responsible! But unfortunately, colleagues died. Friends of mine. Friends. And I was blamed. They blamed ME! You've got to be kidding. You've got to be ****ing kidding me. Sorry. Didn't mean to. Lost myself a bit there. Where was I? Ah yes. That thing I didn't do.

"Some idiots thought it would be a good idea to mix a high level Hado spell with a high-level Bakudo without a Seated supervisor. Dumbasses. They could barely even cast the damn spells they were combining themselves, what made them think it was a good idea? One of them ended up incinerating his entire left side, and the other one…well, we don't talk about what happened to him. He'd probably kill me or something. Just because they had asked me to supervise I was responsible, even though I had never actually agreed to do so. Guess that's what it means when they tell you to read the fine print. Apparently I had signed some form or something that held me responsible. Damn ridiculous if you ask me.

[color=Olive]"I was blamed for the death. It was considered not only a breach of Kido Corp. regs, but a public relations failure. The guy who died, he had family in high places. Those nobles made sure I got punished. Hard. I was sentenced to an indefinite prison term in the 10th division prisons. One of their friends was the current Captain of the division.

"Osagawa Mio. I met her. She was pretty nice to me. The two of us, we understood something about the world, I think. She tried to fight against my transfer, but it was not to be. Despite her status in 10th and in Sereitei, she still was just a commoner. The nobles really ran the show on my sentence. So I made it to the Nest. Then I got let out, got into 10th, and now we're sitting here."

Miss Amagi stared at Karashi. He stared back. "What? Something on my face?" They sat looking at each other for a bit longer. Karashi won. Miss Amagi turned back to her papers eventually, scanning a bit. "Please. Tell me about your time in the Nest." "No." "I'm sorry?" "No." "It's part of the evaluation." "It's not and you know it isn't." "Then please. Won't you?" She put her hand on his. Karashi looked down, then back up. "Are you right in the f-damn head? I'm a looney! A crazy! You're sitting in the same room with a NESTER and you think you can just touch my ****ing hand like that? You don't even know what you're getting into, do you?! Fine. I'll tell you. I'll tell you what the **** when down in that stupid ****ing hole they call the Maggot's Nest." Karashi sat back down. He hadn't realized just how much his rage could make him rise. It stunk.

"After my transfer to the Nest, I began to understand what it meant to really be evil. I saw these people every day. I lived with them. It changes a person, you know? It changes them. Completely. You don't go to the Nest on a picnic, you go there because you've ****ed up your life and now you have nothing remaining. And the people in the Nest, they live forever. The people sentenced to the Nest are the souls that someone thinks are too dangerous to be allowed to die and go back to the Mortal World. They are the ****ing scum of the ****ing cosmos. And I was among them. You clearly don't think I'm one of them, do you?" Miss Amagi nodded. "Well, I am. I am now. 50 years after I got out, and I am still a part of that place. And it's always at the edge of my mind.

Taiki Takahashi got me out. After he became Captain, he fought hard for me to be taken from that place. He recognized my talents. Eventually, he found a loophole. If he hired me to work for him, brought me into 10th Division, he could get me on a trial-run probation of sorts. If, after a decade of good service, I had done good work or some **** like that, I could be released. But I later found out that Taiki didn't want me to be nice. He wanted my knowledge. So out of one prison, into another one. Welcome to 10th. Here is your ****ing shackle." He tugged at his division insignia. "But that didn't stop me. I worked my way up the ladder. Now I'm a Seated officer, and I'm damn good at my job. Even got myself an Execution Squad. So you better let me go back to work, Miss Amagi."

She nodded, jotted a few last notes. At the end, she handed him a piece of paper. "Open that outside. You're free to go. I'll let you know my final report in about a week's time." Karashi got up and was out of the room in a flash. He barely acknowledged her as he went.

At the exit he opened her note. A butterfly flew from it. The note had one word on it. "LUNCH?" Karashi tossed it in the courtyard.

"Bitch."

[Kayne650]

Yeah, I actually agree with TGVA's assessment; a Seele has no power of its own to draw in reiryoku and create a blade. That power comes solely from the Quincy using it, and as far as I can tell only Quincy can do it so effectively. Arrancar can use Gonzui to draw in souls, but they can't pull in just spirit particles, nor can they use the souls for anything but sustenance. However, that's what we've seen in canon.

Perhaps the Arrancar could use an alternative source of power? Perhaps using their own life force to power the blades? However, that price would likely be not worth the power given, so it would be quickly scrapped. However, we'll see what happens. I'm interested to see what Nick and KD come up with!

[KnightDisciple]

I'm probably going to have it be one of the few things Vicente can't really do anything with. I mean, he's going to have a huge success in the Tonics and Philters, and has plenty of personal devices. Really, he may not see a need for making swords when all Arrancar have their own, and all non-Arrancar have plenty of natural weaponry. *Shrugs*

[horngeek]

Incidentally, just so people know now: I intend for the current plot to be where Izumi attains Shikai, because...

well, come on. Sister in danger. I don't think there'd be a more thematically appropriate moment in this RP.

Just checking that there are no objections to this.

[KnightDisciple]

Seems like a good time for it to happen.

[Frozen_Feet]

Perhaps the Arrancar could use an alternative source of power? Perhaps using their own life force to power the blades? However, that price would likely be not worth the power given, so it would be quickly scrapped.

You know what a Hollow's Reiatsu forced into a solid form is called?

Cero.

More to the point, Coyote Starrk is seen using blades of condensed light against Kyoraku Shunsui, which I suspect is exactly this in motion.

Another example would be Ulquiorra's Lanza de Relampago. Really, Hollow creating a weapon is nothing new. Now, one of them creating a weapon specifically like an SS would be, but overall I'd say it's beyond the ken of Hollows who don't already possess a similar ability.

[Draken]

I find it a rather silly concept that the souls of the dead, twisted into vile monsters, use their life force for anything.

Since they are the souls of the dead.

And have no life to have life force.

[Frozen_Feet]

I find it a rather silly concept that the souls of the dead, twisted into vile monsters, use their life force for anything.

Since they are the souls of the dead.

And have no life to have life force.

Well, yeah. Which is why we should be talking about Reiryoku and Reiatsu, or just souls.

[Kuroimaken]

Hooooooooookay, I've had the idea of Soushi's Bankai knocking around in my noggin for a while now, so here's a basic draft...

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Full release command: (undecided at the moment)

Physical description: Soushi's clothing become a stark, full white, with the addition of a blood-red full cape and a winged skullcap-like helmet/mask. Said 'mask' reaches down to the bridge of his nose and is adorned by fangs.

Effects:

First and most significantly, Soushi's Bankai gives him a TREMENDOUS boost in Reiatsu, enabling him to break his usual limits of Kidou incantation (enabling him to cast up level 90). This is, however, not immediately visible, or possible to sense - in fact, it almost seems he doesn't change at all.

That's because the majority of Soushi's Reiatsu essentially condensates and becomes his blood. As a result, he can essentially spill more blood than an average human being his height and weight possibly could produce over the course of a lifetime. He can still manipulate his blood as he did before, except with a much greater degree of finesse and strength.

Second but not least important, his conscience becomes embedded in his Reiatsu/blood. Which enables him to cast Kidou by using his blood instead of incantations, at full power (though the effectiveness of the Kidou itself is not increased beyond that). Blood "used" in this fashion changes the physical appearance of the Kidou itself to tones of red; though it can be reabsorbed (thus lessening the energy expenditure in the use of Kidou) a part of it is ALWAYS expended as a result, proportional to the strength of the Kidou used. Kidou that leave permanent/semipermanent effects (such as Gochuutekkan) "lock" his Reiatsu in them and become their normal color after Soushi breaks Bankai.

Perhaps the most horrifying aspect of his bankai is that, to use RPG terms, damage to HP is converted to MP (Reiatsu). In short, without forcing Soushi to use the entire measure of his strength (or at least enough that he is forced out of Bankai), he cannot be killed. This manifests physically as a pseudo-rapid-regeneration effect - if Soushi loses his arm, another grows out of blood in its place, then becomes his "normal" arm again. Not even decapitation or bisection can take him out for good under those circunstances. This effect expends Reiatsu proportional to the damage inflicted. Alternatively, Soushi can just "become" his blood, kinda like a sentient ooze.

Should Soushi incur more physical damage than he has Reiatsu left to sustain Bankai, he returns to normal: none of the wounds sustained in the meantime remain, but he becomes unconscious and significantly depleted of Reiatsu. Once he wakes up, his capacity for the use of Reiatsu in many forms is diminished proportional to the damage inflicted: one lucky shot after a prolonged battle might just temporarily keep him from casting Kidou above level 60, a Gran Rey Cero will basically make him unable to use anything that requires Reiatsu.

The final effect of his Bankai is that Soushi is able to drain Reiatsu out of his opponent through an open wound. The amount of drain is proportional to the time of contact. He MUST touch his opponent in order to do this; not even using his blood as a conduit will suffice.

[KnightDisciple]

Interesting. Fits well with his general themes, and an outgrowth of the shikai (though it loses the "stored spell" part, it seems).

How long do you intend to take achieving it? Or to put it another way...how long has he been working towards it?

[horngeek]

If he gets 'killed' in Bankai, how long does the restraint on his reiatsu last?

[Kuroimaken]

Interesting. Fits well with his general themes, and an outgrowth of the shikai (though it loses the "stored spell" part, it seems).

How long do you intend to take achieving it? Or to put it another way...how long has he been working towards it?

That's where you're wrong. It just so happens he changes the medium from paper to blood.

I've actually intended for him to have had it for at least about six months, possibly more (up to a decade at best) but not used it once in a real-combat situation because of his inexperience with it. In my mind, that's how he was able to sling around level 60's Kidou nearly without blinking. He was already at "I have premature Bankai" levels of Reiatsu, he just didn't use the resource proper outside of training. Remember, Bankai is supposed to take a LOT of time to master. So in order for him to be reasonably competent with it, he'd need quite some time.

If he gets 'killed' in Bankai, how long does the restraint on his reiatsu last?

That depends on the restraint itself. (As another RPG analogy, his Max MP is reduced.) And also on the care provided. Say, for example, he got the lucky shot in (relatively small reduction). Untreated and left to his own devices, Soushi would take perhaps on the upwards of six hours or more to recover. With treatment, he could cut that time to perhaps half, or a third of the original. (This assumes a fairly competent healer or team of healers.) And he'd still be fatigued.

On the other hand, if he got Gran Ray Cero'd, left to his own devices, he would take between two weeks and a month to restablish his full fighting form. If he got treated, he could diminish that time to, at best, 5 days. (Note that if he has enough energy left to enter Bankai after he wakes up, he could use its energy drain to replenish himself, but he'd have to absorb a LOT of it).

[Nicklance]

I can imagine placing an SS into an Arrancar's mouth and activating Gonzui through it. Would be hilarious.

Ahem back on seriousness. Now we know that the Quincy is using the SS as a tool to refine and enhance their abilities to draw in reishi. The charge up of a Cero is pretty much an act of drawing in energy to fire as a coherent beam of light.

So using the SS to effectively create a blade with the cutting and damage power of a Cero to me is not too far a stretch. I'd think the SS is literally like a lightsaber, with the laser blade shortened and maintained so that its usage as a melee weapon affords an additional combat option when firing beams everywhere is not allowed.

So effectively its a high-powered laser sword.

Naturally Arrancars would not even bother, since they have their zanpakuto, but for Adjuchas and Vasto Lordes, this might be an additional combat option.

[Draken]

Noteworthy: Cero =reiryoku = energy. Seele Schneider = reishi = matter.

If a hollow tried to gonzui through a SS, all he would do is swallow the thing. If he tried to cero through it, all he would do is disintegrate the thing.

[KnightDisciple]

Noteworthy: Cero =reiryoku = energy. Seele Schneider = reishi = matter.

If a hollow tried to gonzui through a SS, all he would do is swallow the thing. If he tried to cero through it, all he would do is disintegrate the thing.

In other words, let's please stop trying to give Hollows who are already really powerful access to lightsabers. Quincy have them because it's a.)part of their "schtick" and b.)something that at least helps them get more even with the likes of Shinigami and Arrancar.

[Nicklance]

That's fine. Its a trophy then.

[Wahrheit]

I'd always been of the view that Quincy items and such simply fail outright to work for anyone but a Quincy, since their method is so totally different. Hollows (and their derivatives), shinigami (and their derivatives), and even mediums all depend on manipulating their own reiatsu to create various effects, while Quincy depend entirely on manipulating external reishi. It's kind of like the difference between a diesel and a gasoline engine: they both get similar things done, but in different ways, and trying to run one with the source of the other is just a Bad Idea.

On a total side note, an idea that popped into my head a while back: we've seen that Quincy Final Form starts tearing apart nearby reishi to fuel itself, and is powerful enough at this that Mayuri deemed it "reishi dominance."

Shinigami and arrancar are made of reishi.

Thus, would it be possible, if the Quincy were close enough, to start ripping chunks of matter out of nearby opponents?

[KnightDisciple]

I'd always been of the view that Quincy items and such simply fail outright to work for anyone but a Quincy, since their method is so totally different. Hollows (and their derivatives), shinigami (and their derivatives), and even mediums all depend on manipulating their own reiatsu to create various effects, while Quincy depend entirely on manipulating external reishi. It's kind of like the difference between a diesel and a gasoline engine: they both get similar things done, but in different ways, and trying to run one with the source of the other is just a Bad Idea.

On a total side note, an idea that popped into my head a while back: we've seen that Quincy Final Form starts tearing apart nearby reishi to fuel itself, and is powerful enough at this that Mayuri deemed it "reishi dominance."

Shinigami and arrancar are made of reishi.

Thus, would it be possible, if the Quincy were close enough, to start ripping chunks of matter out of nearby opponents?

Hm. Probably not, unless there was absolutely nothing else. I mean, The Captain Who Deserves Prison wasn't that far from him, and he didn't lose chunks. I would imagine inanimate objects can't "resist" the ability, but Shinigami, their swords, Arrancar, etc. would be able to fight against the pull, even unconsciously.

[Zerkai]

Alive now, using an old laptop.