[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 16: Apocalypse Now!

[Frozen_Feet]

Riccaru, few things that are just plain odd about the current scene with Nao, Suzume and co.

First of all, there's absolutely no way in which badmouthing Suzume could count as "harassing superior officer". (Harassment of a prisoner would be another thing entirely.) She would've reasonably forfeited all her rights as a member of Gotei and most as a citizen of Seireitei upon her defection.

Second, Nao really shouldn't have Suzume's blade with him solely for "personal reasons". Bringing it within such close distance of known traitor should likewise be off-limits. Think of it in terms of law enforcement - would a police be allowed to confiscate weapon used for a murder and carry it around on whim?

Also, remember that the scene isn't you versus KD and Kuroi. Nao is technically on their side. So are the 10th members. Nao in particular is acting overtly hostile and a complete jerk for what seems to be no reason at all. If anything, it'd be he who'd get lead out due to "harassment".

[riccaru]

Riccaru, few things that are just plain odd about the current scene with Nao, Suzume and co.

First of all, there's absolutely no way in which badmouthing Suzume could count as "harassing superior officer". (Harassment of a prisoner would be another thing entirely.) She would've reasonably forfeited all her rights as a member of Gotei and most as a citizen of Seireitei upon her defection.

Second, Nao really shouldn't have Suzume's blade with him solely for "personal reasons". Bringing it within such close distance of known traitor should likewise be off-limits. Think of it in terms of law enforcement - would a police be allowed to confiscate weapon used for a murder and carry it around on whim?

Also, remember that the scene isn't you versus KD and Kuroi. Nao is technically on their side. So are the 10th members. Nao in particular is acting overtly hostile and a complete jerk for what seems to be no reason at all. If anything, it'd be he who'd get lead out due to "harassment".

How long has Himura been carrying Hannibal's sword?

Since Yuuki made no attempt to deny that Suzume had been working under orders, there's still every reason to treat her as if she were still a member of the Gotei. If Yoshi had said the same things to Karite or Akio it would be the same thing. Until they figure out she's not actually a member of second division.

Edit: I find it very irksome that my character is now going to be under suspicion of treason because I didn't actually know he couldn't bring that stuff, even OOC.

[KnightDisciple]

How long has Himura been carrying Hannibal's sword?

Since Yuuki made no attempt to deny that Suzume had been working under orders, there's still every reason to treat her as if she were still a member of the Gotei. If Yoshi had said the same things to Karite or Akio it would be the same thing. Until they figure out she's not actually a member of second division.

Um...the fact that she planted bombs all over the place (whatever the actual scale of destruction). That'd be like saying if a military officer blew up a supply dump, they'd still have to follow orders, even though he was being investigated.

I'd think being incarcerated like that would remove any and all authority. As well, it would seem to me that Central 46 would have said (back when the previous 2nd Div. Captain was killed) that "this crazy ***** is an outlaw". And Yuuki can't over-ride them.

[Kuroimaken]

One more thing that Soushi didn't add: can you imagine how much of a hassle it would be if the Captain of the 10th had to sign and verify EVERY. SINGLE. interrogation report of his division?

So yes, it was a rules lawyering trap. Subterfuge is something Soushi's supposed to be good at, and the fact a member of Onmitsukidou was following supposedly proper protocol at all made him slightly suspicious.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

As a side note in Takeshi, this IS the 'forbidden' commander we are talking about. Extended construction within time bubbles, and multiple act of relocation via teleportation, are both very viable options in this case. The reason why such kido is forbidden in the first place is due to the fact that they can violate assumed continuity this severely.

[strawberryman]

Edit: I find it very irksome that my character is now going to be under suspicion of treason because I didn't actually know he couldn't bring that stuff, even OOC.

I feel this may be relevent.

[Frozen_Feet]

How long has Himura been carrying Hannibal's sword?

200 hundred years before she lost it. It was, however, a completely different situation. Michiko never visited, or even tried to visit, Hannibal, sword or no sword. And she definitely wouldn't have been allowed to even take it inside a prison.

Under the circumstances given, Himura Michiko's possession was perhaps the single safest place for Espírito de Ferro's location. Same can't be said for Nao and Suzume now.

Seriously, I'm wondering why anyone save for the 10th guards have weapons in that scene. It's holding cell for a high-profile criminal. They don't want anyone to assassinate her before her lawful execution, and they sure as hell wouldn't want to risk anyone giving her a weapon.

Since Yuuki made no attempt to deny that Suzume had been working under orders, there's still every reason to treat her as if she were still a member of the Gotei. If Yoshi had said the same things to Karite or Akio it would be the same thing. Until they figure out she's not actually a member of second division.

No, no, no. No reasonable law-enforcement would take at face value such accusation Suzume leveled at Yuuki. In addition, they've had 11 days or so to check her story. Considering how outrageous it was, it wouldn't have really lasted. Only if Yuuki has done something to confirm her words does she have even a leg to stand on.

You just don't assume innocence of and believe a known criminal.

[KnightDisciple]

Pretty sure it's not just that he brought that stuff that he's suddenly suspicious.

[riccaru]

One more thing that Soushi didn't add: can you imagine how much of a hassle it would be if the Captain of the 10th had to sign and verify EVERY. SINGLE. interrogation report of his division?

So yes, it was a rules lawyering trap. Subterfuge is something Soushi's supposed to be good at, and the fact a member of Onmitsukidou was following supposedly proper protocol at all made him slightly suspicious.

It was underhanded at best. I wouldn't have that knowledge OOC for any reason, and so I was incapable of having Nao follow proper operational procedure

I'd also like to know if this is TGVA's rules,or if you're just making this up as you go along.

[Frozen_Feet]

It was underhanded at best. I wouldn't have that knowledge OOC for any reason, and so I was incapable of having Nao follow proper operational procedure.

Which is why I tried to bring the issue up in conversational, rather than adversary manner. Knowing all that now, can you justify Nao being there and doing the things he's doing? I doubt you can, but fear not - it can still be adressed within the game. Like by one of the 10th Divisioners telling Nao to get out, and filing a report on misdemeanor on his part..

[KnightDisciple]

It would be common sense that:

1.)You can't bring an accused criminal's weapon so close to them if it's not locked up. Especially when we're dealing with superhumans who can cast spells, and whose swords are actually pieces of their souls. Debate of people being armed in general aside, that particular action sticks out as "obviously unwise".

2.)Treating the prisoner as an accused criminal and not a regular officer is, again, common sense. This whole mess is a bit compounded by Moon Wolf pulling a disappearing act, but it should be pretty obvious you don't treat someone who set you up the bomb as a respected officer.

3.)Frankly, Nao's behavior in front of Soushi and Yoshi (heh) last time and this time is at least partly suspect.

To speak more generally, we're inferring a lot from basics of real-world law enforcement and basic common sense.

[riccaru]

Okay, in light of this event, allow me to propose a draft of a new rule.

Should there be a heated disagreement of any kind about a character, all involved parties should postpone discussing the matter until a day after the heated disagreement started. That way, it allows both parties enough time to take a step back, think from a rational standpoint, and then come back to the discussion with a clear head.

Sound good?

I'll respond to everything in due time. Please don't feel I'm ignoring everything, but nothing good will come of me answering at this moment.

[Frozen_Feet]

My suggestion would be as follows: get a third (well, fourth) party to adress all these issues and defuse the situation in-game. I suggest Inyu with Sigint, as he's still an active Onmitsukido. As a member of Gotei, he'd also reasonably have authority over the prison guards. Tgva with one random 10th member would be natural choice, as well.

[Mina Kobold]

I don't have much of an idea what exactly happened in this scene but didn't a lot of stuff happen that may have made the division too busy with upholding procedure?

Not that the characters shouldn't have known, but even Shinigami aren't perfect. They make mistakes in the heat of big events like the attacks and desertions that have happened.

I have barely any knbowledge of the setting, though, so I am probably completely wrong. ^_^'

[horngeek]

You can post first.

Okay, posted. When Kasanip gets on, she can decide whether Kazari is with Chiyoko or not.

[KnightDisciple]

Wow. We've got potentially 3 different student timelines going on here. Kaito, where it's probably 6am or so for him. Sora, same time, maybe an hour later? Or maybe he's still on the weekend, or playing hooky. And Izumi, who's in mid-class.

[horngeek]

I feel this may be relevent.

Unfortunately, intelligence is inversely proportional to this, as I well know.

Don't assume someone's been using common sense, because god knows I forget mine often enough. I'd say cut him some slack, or at the very least let a retcon of the scene happen.

[Frozen_Feet]

That's easy to fix:

Pick a day number. Put it in your posts. Suddenly, making sense of things becomes lot easier.

Again, for sake of convenience, I suggest people work their characters to day 18 or 19 for the time being.

[riccaru]

Wow. We've got potentially 3 different student timelines going on here. Kaito, where it's probably 6am or so for him. Sora, same time, maybe an hour later? Or maybe he's still on the weekend, or playing hooky. And Izumi, who's in mid-class.

At least they're on the same day Soul Society doesn't even have that going for them.

Also, I forgot to mention, but everything in the 10th division should be either the latest day (+13) or sometime during Soushi's suspension, depending where Kuroi and KD would like to have it. It doesn't matter to myself either way. If those times are concurrent then I guess everything's good.

[Frozen_Feet]

Day 18, AKA the same day Akio and Karite got their sentences passed, would be my suggestion.

[KnightDisciple]

I'd say the SS day is closer to 18 or 19. Soushi's supposed to be out of his suspension now.

And the MW concern is less "which day" and more "what time".

[Kuroimaken]

To wit: not only is it common sense that Nao shouldn't be anywhere near Suzume with restricted evidence, it should be common sense from the fact that, well, this is Soushi we're talking about, and that Seireitei had someone defect little more than a week ago, that Soushi might well be pulling a fast one on Nao. There's a state of heightened alert right now.

You could have asked, OOCly, whether this was actual procedure. There's no sensible reason Nao couldn't have known; and even if he didn't, he could well be informed. So Nao could've defused Soushi's backtalk right then and there.

I'll admit it wasn't exactly nice of me to pull a technicality trip on you, but, um, yeah. Nao isn't exactly at the height of expected normal behavior for a member of the Gotei right now.

Seriously, I'm wondering why anyone save for the 10th guards have weapons in that scene.

Soushi doesn't. He just has his little black book.

[KnightDisciple]

And you think anyone but Yoshi can use his guns?

[strawberryman]

For Mortal World, I'd say before school, to facilitate the kidnapping plot.

[riccaru]

And you think anyone but Yoshi can use his guns?

They'd make good clubs, I suppose.

[Nicklance]

To people currently playing in the Mortal World:

I take it that everyone who is spiritually aware is also suppressing their spiritual presence as well?

[Mina Kobold]

Alice certainly is, as well as inhabiting a gigai if that does any difference.

I apologise for not posting much, but I have little idea for what Alice would be doing that wouldn't just end up in a description of her wandering around the base. ^_^'

[riccaru]

I've decided to handle the situation to the best of my ability in an IC fashion.

[Nicklance]

Alice certainly is, as well as inhabiting a gigai if that does any difference.

I apologise for not posting much, but I have little idea for what Alice would be doing that wouldn't just end up in a description of her wandering around the base. ^_^'

Cool. Coz I'm not very clear on the Mortal World protocol beyond "do not blow your cover or release your reiryoku anywhere".

[riccaru]

Cool. Coz I'm not very clear on the Mortal World protocol beyond "do not blow your cover or release your reiryoku anywhere".

I blame Sereg's God Complex.

Also, he was never told not to...