When is enough enough. Opinions wanted.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

OK so I'm in a level 7-9, 3.5 game with some house rules.

It's a "low magic" level game for "balance" reasons, set in Birthright (old 2nd ed campaign setting) House rules are you fumble on a 1 and lose all further attacks per round. Magic weapons cap at +2 (but occasionally have extra effects (flaming/shocking) too) I have not yet noticed any limitation on casters. Full SRD spell lists for reference.

Party is a Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Rogue/shadowcaster.

I get told "we really need a melee character"

After making up a fighter/ranger/warblade (4/1/2) with a nice backstory we get started.

For gear I literally start with nothing, but the party was nice enough to give me cast offs (I think the GM was using my character for a money sink for the party.)

I started 1 level down from the group.. then at 8th. Most of party has hit
9th. After over 9 full sessions after I got brought in. I'm still almost exactly 1/2 way to 8th (so a total of 3500xp after over 9 sessions)

So the going is slow, I'm underpowered, undergeared, Melee is underpowered even compared to normal 3.5.

In game I find out that even masterwork weapons are out of my price range (600 gp for masterwork halberd plus side quest to qualify for reduced price, Masterwork bows don't exist with strength mods above a +1 without epic materials) All the NPC's are essentially black-hearted con artists who either literally want the party dead, or take credit for all we do.

The rest of the players/characters I'm pretty OK with aside from a lot of comments about how I suck compared to the last melee character they had,
(who incidentally had several single items of gear better than my net worth) but the Imbalance power wise is literally driving me nuts.

Do I have a legitimate beef here, or am I just overanalysing another DM's gaming style becouse I DM too much.

So I ask you playground. Would you stay in a game like this?

(more anecdotal info available upon request... trying not to sound whiney)

[Greenish]

If you're not having fun, something is wrong. Talk to your DM.

[Glimbur]

I wouldn't stay. The questions you should ask are 1) Am I having fun? and 2) How much drama will leaving cause?

[Dylaer]

+1 for leaving the game. I can't say I agree at all with a lot of the stuff your DM has in place (there are monsters with DR that can only be bypassed with +3 or higher weapons, for example) and it sounds like the "low magic" is used to nerf all classes, not just casters.

[Greenish]

(there are monsters with DR that can only be bypassed with +3 or higher weapons, for example)

Not in 3.5.

Anyhow, I hate fumble rules with the burning passion of a thousand suns, and that one is particularly [censored]. I can understand the thinking behind the ones that have "amusing" effects (even if I don't understand how it's supposed to be hilarious), but that one is just there to rain on your parade.

[Popertop]

I wouldn't stay, sounds really frustrating and terrible.

I have to stomach enough double-standards in my own life, let alone in a gaming medium thats supposed to be my escape

[Hirax]

Not in 3.5.

Anyhow, I hate fumble rules with the burning passion of a thousand suns, and that one is particularly [censored]. I can understand the thinking behind the ones that have "amusing" effects (even if I don't understand how it's supposed to be hilarious), but that one is just there to rain on your parade.

100% agreed. I begrudgingly play games with a group that enjoy them sometimes, and I always play with a character loaded with luck feats and goliath racial abilities to stymy this.

Starting out with no gear and getting castoffs instead of being able to choose some of your gear is pretty rough. Something is definitely wrong here based on the other things you describe too. If you're not having fun you need to start weighing the drama cost of saying something or leaving.

[tyckspoon]

I'd be severely tempted to just off the next NPC that had something you wanted and run away with it ("hey, that seems like a nice sword. Mind if I take a practice swing or two, make sure it fits my hand? *Emerald Razor Power Attack!* "Oh, yes, I like that..") And I don't like playing evil. Which suggests to me that yes, something is wrong, particularly if the character you're replacing and the rest of the party do have some nicer things- that kind of comes off like you're actually being hazed a bit for being the new guy.

I dunno.. ideally, you want to get your bump to level-parity with the group and a chance at a rare cache of ancient lost magic (well.. that tends to be how magic items get distributed in 'low magic' plans, anyway), but failing that you could probably do some good by retraining your build. You want more Warblade- it's not item independent, but it's a good ways closer than 4 levels worth of Fighter.. another manuever known and readied from Warblade 4 would almost certainly be of more use to you than whatever feat you took at Fighter 4, and your skills would be somewhat less dire.

[Vladislav]

The game design looks like a total fail on the DMs part. The rest of the party are casters who can make their own magic, and thus don't care about the "low magic" aspect of the game. A Cleric in a "low-magic" game, you see, has the same number of spells and Turn Undead attempts per day as he would in a "high-magic" game. He doesn't care if no magical weapons or armor are available, because he can make his own. He doesn't care if Belts of Strength are in short supply, because he has spells for it.

Who needs magic to be at least mildly competitive? Oh yeah, melee does.

As long as you weren't in the game, this fatal design flaw wasn't exposed and everyone were getting along merrily. Then came along you, and of course drew the short stick. Oh well, them are the breaks.

I suggest talking to the DM and explaining just how bad your situation is. If this doesn't work, leave.

[Kylarra]

Unless your several other anecdotes are concealing an amazing story that your character is interested in, I'd highly suggest the talking to DM and failing that bringing results, leave/reroll a full caster route.

[Remmirath]

It seems very strange that a low magic game would have no restrictions at all on casters, and that the party would consist mostly of full casters. Wouldn't that sort of defeat the purpose of it?

I'd probably try to talk to the DM about it first rather than leaving right off, assuming I liked the people and/or the rest of the game. If, after speaking about it, things were still going to be making me constantly annoyed, then I'd leave. The purpose of the game is to be having fun, after all.

Alternate suggestion: get your character killed/written off somehow (assuming this is the sort of game where people are okay with that), and play a cleric who puts most or all of their spells towards fighting. If spells aren't restricted, you might be a better fighter that way than playing a fighter who doesn't get decent magical gear, and you'd still fill their 'melee guy' requirement.

[Veyr]

The houserules are killing that game. They're terrible and make no sense ("low magic" "full SRD spell lists" wut). I'd talk to the DM about those.

But... you'll very likely get nowhere with that. Sounds very likely that this is a DM with very particular (and inaccurate) ideas about how the game works, and is not likely to budge on them. The rest of the party doesn't seem terribly likely to come to your aid, either.

[Kylarra]

They should just let you reroll as a Druid. Then you've got the meatshield who doesn't care about gear and you're a fullcaster so you can keep up with everyone else without gear as well.

[GoatBoy]

+1 for talking to the DM first. It sounds like he's on a different plane of existence from you, but it sounds like there might still be something worth salvaging here.

Try to enlighten your DM on how crippling the game's house rules and nerfs are for the one primary melee character, and how much more melee characters rely on equipment.

If the DM refuses to budge, then simply inform him that your playing styles are incompatible and bid him goodbye.

Sounds like an inexperienced DM who thinks Fighters are on par with Wizards "because Fighters never run out of sword swings," and who doesn't grasp the concept of the tier system and the 15-minute adventuring day. But everyone needs to learn about these things somewhere.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Reroll a new character. Go Human Druid, get Sacred Vow and VoP at level 1, Natural Bond at 3, and Natural Spell. Your Exalted bonus feats should be Nymph's Kiss, Animal Friend, Intuitive Attack, Exalted Companion, Touch of Golden Ice, etc. Your animal companion should be a Celestial Dire Eagle which also has VoP, and it should count Touch of Golden Ice among its bonus exalted feats. Wild shape into strong combat forms, cast Produce Flame before you full attack, and have plenty of crowd control spells ready.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Talk with your DM. Those are brutal houserules that really detract from your fun. That said, do what Biffoniacus_Furiou said. Ask to reroll a new melee character, bring in a druid. If they go "But that's a spellcaster!" Then let them know you can out-melee the melees.

[Stompy]

Spoiler

Show

It's a "low magic" level game for "balance" reasons,

Party is a Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Rogue/shadowcaster.

wat

Spoiler

Show

Magic weapons cap at +2 (but occasionally have extra effects (flaming/shocking) too)

Masterwork bows don't exist with strength mods above a +1 without epic materials

double wat

I get told "we really need a melee character"

For gear I literally start with nothing

Then how did you live to be a 7th level melee character backstory-wise?

For the record, I find your DM to be contradicting himself(/herself), and having a underpowered underwealthed melee character in this system is really not fun, as you have made it clear, probably because you feel like you are doing absolutely nothing useful in the campaign. I would have to agree with the people that say to bring this up with the DM, and until this problem is fixed, I would not play this game.

EDIT: Who wanted you to play a melee character anyway? Your party seems ungrateful for you and your DM doesn't seem to know that he is hurting you severely in the crunch department.

[Coidzor]

Well, I'd say they're not treating you like a friend or with any respect as a person, that's for sure.

[theForce017]

The game is suppose to be fun so if you aren't having fun, try to change things. First would be talk to the DM like the other Forumers have said (Forumers haha, sry). If he is unwilling to do anything then I would attempt to find another group. If neither of these ideas sound good then, if possible, try to swap out some feats for Vow of Poverty and play that way. Just do whatever you want to do without feeling bad about it. Good luck!

[CTrees]

Reroll a new character. Go Human Druid, get Sacred Vow and VoP at level 1, Natural Bond at 3, and Natural Spell. Your Exalted bonus feats should be Nymph's Kiss, Animal Friend, Intuitive Attack, Exalted Companion, Touch of Golden Ice, etc. Your animal companion should be a Celestial Dire Eagle which also has VoP, and it should count Touch of Golden Ice among its bonus exalted feats. Wild shape into strong combat forms, cast Produce Flame before you full attack, and have plenty of crowd control spells ready.

+1. This is (a more advanced/fleshed out version of) what I was going to suggest. If they think that's not a sufficiently melee character, they don't know what melee is.

[Eldan]

+1 for talking. Really, talk to people. The DM might just be unaware of what he's doing. Explain to him how you think the party balance should be, and that you are frustrated. Don't threaten to leave (I.e. don't say "I want a +3 full plate or I'm going!) but explain that you aren't having much fun like this, and that you aren't feeling useless.

His immediate response should tell you if he is worth playing with. If he shows some understanding, and is willing to compromise, apologizes for making your life needlessly difficult or at least lets you make a new character that better fits the situation, stay. Otherwise, go.

[Curmudgeon]

OK so I'm in a level 7-9, 3.5 game with some house rules.

House rules are you fumble on a 1 and lose all further attacks per round. Magic weapons cap at +2 (but occasionally have extra effects (flaming/shocking) too) I have not yet noticed any limitation on casters.

I get told "we really need a melee character"

The rules are specifically stacked to penalize martial characters. Unless you enjoy abuse, it seems like a waste of your time to take on a role where you're not allowed to do well.

I suggest as a minimum compromise that you switch to a full spellcasting character that can take on a melee role, since spellcasters aren't lmited. A Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Devotion, War domain, and spells (Divine Power, Mage Armor from Spell or Force domains, Magic Vestment) would at least get you started despite having poor equipment. Failing that, I don't see any reason to continue being the designated whipping boy in this game.

[Ruinix]

reroll and make a druid with natural spell and cast on bear form.
win win.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Wait, you said he made it like this for balance reasons. That makes me think that he thinks casters are underpowered. To show him the truth, make a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard, set 60 feet apart at the start of combat, and have them fight each other. Make sure there's some sort of terrain between them, as you won't often fight on a clear battlefield.

[Darth_Versity]

I have to agree with most people here and say have a private chat with your DM before the next game starts. Tell him your not having a lot of fun with your character as is an ask if he can throw you some equipment to make up the power gap or let you roll a new character.

Its much better than just getting up and walking away from the table and most people will understand try to help out. If you do get a new character I agree with the Druid suggestions. A druid will give you full casting and would out melee a fighter any day.

[theForce017]

Wait, you said he made it like this for balance reasons. That makes me think that he thinks casters are underpowered. To show him the truth, make a 20th level fighter and a 20th level wizard, set 60 feet apart at the start of combat, and have them fight each other. Make sure there's some sort of terrain between them, as you won't often fight on a clear battlefield.

That is a good idea but depending on who designs each character could decide who wins. I feel as if I could build a fighter that could kill a wizard due to the fact I can optimize a fighter and not so much a wizard. Not only that but the biggest part of the encounter is who goes first.

[Veyr]

That is a good idea but depending on who designs each character could decide who wins. I feel as if I could build a fighter that could kill a wizard due to the fact I can optimize a fighter and not so much a wizard. Not only that but the biggest part of the encounter is who goes first.

But the Wizard will go first. Nerveskitter, rerolls, SAD, Contingency, and Celerity all guarantee it. The Fighter doesn't even have the remotest hope of having the first action.

[Darth_Versity]

But the Wizard will go first. Nerveskitter, rerolls, SAD, Contingency, and Celerity all guarantee it. The Fighter doesn't even have the remotest hope of having the first action.

If the mage is built well. But lets be honest, you give a new player all the books and the chance of him picking all those spells are slim at best.

[Coidzor]

If the mage is built well. But lets be honest, you give a new player all the books and the chance of him picking all those spells are slim at best.

But that's not what we're talking about here.

We're talking about people who've been playing for a while and still think this or are trolling the guy and acting like they do.

[Veyr]

If the mage is built well. But lets be honest, you give a new player all the books and the chance of him picking all those spells are slim at best.

But he needs one of those, maybe two if he's going with SAD+rerolls. And really, I don't think it takes a genius to look at Contingency and realize that it is an excellent get-out-of-jail-free card.