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    Default [3.5]The Force Adept


    The Force Adept
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    "Wheres the Cookies?" ~Tim, Force Adept apprentice.
    "Ah.. that..was a lie" ~Chuck Force Adeptis
    "damn..."

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|
    Maneuvers Known
    |
    Maneuvers Readied
    |
    Stances Known

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    Lightsaber Crafting
    |
    2
    |
    1
    |
    1

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    Force Push
    |
    2
    |
    1
    |
    1

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    Leap
    |
    2
    |
    1
    |
    1

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    Bonus Feat
    |
    2
    |
    1
    |
    1

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    Weapon Focus
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |
    1

    6th|
    +6/1
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    Force Choke
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |
    1

    7th|
    +7/2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    Dodge
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |
    1

    8th|
    +8/3
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    Bonus Feat
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |
    2

    9th|
    +9/4
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    Psionic Weapon
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |
    2

    10th|
    +10/5
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    Force Burst
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |
    2

    11th|
    +11/6/1
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    Warp
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |
    2

    12th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    Bonus Feat
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |
    2

    13th|
    +13/8/3
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    Deep Impact
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |
    2

    14th|
    +14/9/4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    Force Crush
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |
    2

    15th|
    +15/10/5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    Walls
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |
    3

    16th|
    +16/11/6/1
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    Bonus Feat
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |
    3

    17th|
    +17/12/7/2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    Greater Psionic Weapon
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |
    3

    18th|
    +18/13/8/3
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    Force Lightning
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |
    3

    19th|
    +19/14/9/4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    Hover
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |
    3

    20th|
    +20/15/10/5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    Bonus Feat
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |
    3
    [/table]
    Hit Dice: d8
    Skill Points: 6+Int (x4 at 1st level)
    Class Skills: Autohypnosis, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Psicraft, Search. Sense Motive. Slight of hand, Spot, Tumble
    Alignment:
    Force Adept, despite their movie representations, can be of any alignment besides Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil. Though they can become so after taking levels in Force Adept, but cannot continue progression until they change alignment to available alignments. As no one lawful good would delve into the darker energies of the force, and Chaotic Evil wouldn't put up with the structure of the dark side.
    Special:
    Force Adept are considered Psionic beings, and have 1 power point. So they may obtain Psionic feats and become Psionically focused.

    Class Features:
    Weapons and Armor:
    Force Adept are proficient with Light and Medium armor, but not shields.
    Force Adept are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and the exotic weapon; Lightsaber.

    Lightsaber Crafting:
    a Force Adept creates their own lightsaber. To do so, they must gather the components. (usually all are negligible save for the Crystal, and the metal used for the handle).
    Craft: Lightsaber DC is 15 (Green) DC 20 (blue) DC 25 (purple) DC 30 (Red) DC 40 (Yellow)
    1: 1d6, 19-20 x2 Illumination (lightsaber emits dim light within 10 feet)
    3: 1d8, 19-20 x3
    6: 2d4, 18-20 x3 Hits incorporeal.
    9: 1d10, 18-20 x4
    12: 1d12. 17-20 x4 Ignores armor, natural armor, and first 20 of hardness.
    15: 2d6, 17-20 x4
    18: 2d8, 16-20 x4 Hits ethereal.
    20: 1d20, 15-20 x4
    Crafting a lightsaber takes only 24 hours once materials are gather, assuming you don't have to forge any of the metal yourself. Otherwise its just assembling it correctly and/or modifying as needed with your better craft skill at higher ranks.
    Lightsaber's are treated as Longswords for things related to longswords. Unless the Force Adept has a Lightsaber crafting of 10 ranks, when they can craft it into any martial weapon (This doesn't confer much bonuses besides things such as Reach) at 23 ranks, you can craft it as any exotic weapon. Lightsabers weight 5lbs, Lightsabers use Dexterity rather then Strength to land the quickest, most accurate blows for the most effect, rather then trying to force a hunk of steel into someones flesh, and cannot be enchanted in any way.
    Metals used in its creation vary and don't effect results much besides weight. This is typically all the weight comes from, not much else. So lighter metals are usually used, but some prefer tougher, stronger metals. Price here depends on chosen metal.
    Focusing components, various lenses (or bits of clearstone if glass isn't something in your campaign) used to focus the energies from the crystal. usually have to be specially made. 400gp including services for crafting and bits of raw stone and metals to give to the craftsman. (usually a jewler, for the fine precise work in making thin wiring and cutting the clearstone into shape.)
    the crystal itself is rare. You may find it in jewlery once in a while, but by then its been processed to much or is cut to small for use. You can buy Green and Blue crystals for 1,000gp (green) or 3,000gp (blue). If your in a large, wealthy city you might be able to find a purple for 100,000gp. Red crystals are exceptionally rare and you must go on a quest to find one, or special order one somehow for 600,000gp. Yellow crystals are nearly unheard of outside of legends. Special quest required. Usually extraplanar as many worlds wouldn't even have a single shard.
    Other unique crystals may exist (Special DM creations) that would require quests, or rare occasional finds.

    The Colors: Every color carries benefits of previous colors, + its own.
    Green: Standard, no bonus.
    Blue: Extra 1 damage per die.
    Purple: add +1d6 Fire- damage on crit.
    Red: Re-roll 1's on damage die.
    Yellow: Cut through magical walls and effects, including force wall and the like.
    Silver: Make an attack roll vs magic/Psionic attacks. If you beat the attack or spell DC with your own attack roll. You negate the effect.

    Bonus Feats:
    from Fighter Bonus.

    Maneuvers:
    Shadow Hand
    Stone Dragon
    and Diamond Mind only.
    Recovers at the end of an encounter, or one maneuver as a free action once per round.

    Force Push
    The Force Adept can make an attack roll using their intelligence modifier +1/2 Force Adept levels. For every five points you beat their Reflex save they are pushed five feet, taking damage for anything they hit. They continue to be pushed as long as the force can break through what ever they hit on the way, Every five feet, decrease your attack roll by 2 for and use that to see if you break through.
    Usable Force Adept levels +int mod times a day.

    Leap
    when Psionically focused the Force Adept adds her class levels to Jump and Tumble checks.

    Weapon Focus:
    Force Adept gains Weapon focus, Lightsaber.

    Force Choke
    The Force Adept suddenly blocks the airways of a subject, if they fail a fortitude save they begin to suffocate. DC = 10+1/2 Force Adept levels, +Int Mod. This check can be repeated each round. If they fail the check by 5 or more, they don't get a save for 1 round per 5 they fail by. DC increases by 2 for each failed save.
    Usable Force Adept levels +int mod times a day. Range: As long as you can accurately see them.

    Dodge
    When Psionically focused the Force Adept gains 1/4th her class levels as an insight bonus to AC.

    Psionic Weapon:
    Force Adept gains Psionic Weapon, with the Lightsaber.

    Force Burst
    As force Push, but effects all within 20 feet, even allies.
    Usable Force Adept levels +int mod times a day.

    Warp
    When Psionically focused Force Adept's speed increases by 10 feet, and the Force Adept can choose to expend her psionic focus to make half the movement a teleport. For ye weirdos, Thats move half speed, teleport the rest, Can't teleport the first half. and you Must move half speed Before teleporting.

    Deep Impact:
    Force Adept gains deep impact, when using the Lightsaber.

    Force Crush
    As Force Choke, but they also take 1d6/Force Adept level bludgeoning damage each round and the DC increases to 15 +1/2 Force Adept levels, +Int mod.
    Usable Force Adept levels +int mod times a day.

    Walls
    When psionically focused the Force Adept can walk on walls as easily as the ground. Must end on a horizontal surface. If she also has the Up the Walls feat, benefits stack to further potency and she does not have to end on a horizontal surface.

    Greater Psionic Weapon:
    Force Adept gains Greater Psionic Weapon when using the Lightsaber.

    Force Adept Lightning
    As force push, but the force is visible as a deadly, splintering blast of lightning. in addition to previous effects of Force Push, it deals 1d8 Lightning and Force damage per Force Adept level on a failed save.
    Usable Force Adept levels +int mod times a day.

    Hover
    When Psionically focused the Force Adept can hover, remaining a foot above the ground. Her speed increases by 20 feet and she ignores certain difficult terrains such as ice slicks, and can hover over water. By expending Psionic Focus, you can gain a fly speed equal to land speed (perfect) until the end of your next turn.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-07-05 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Ah. I didn't directly ask for comments on how to improve in the Title, that must be why no ones telling me how bad it is.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    What power list does it pull from? How many and what disciplines does it get? What stats does it use for bonus PP, power DCs, maneuver DCs? What's it's maneuver recovery method? What options does it have for bonus feats? What are the full stats for the lightsaber?

    I mean, all you have is a framework of contextless numbers. There's nothing substantial here for people to comment on or criticize.
    Last edited by Agent_0042; 2011-05-25 at 04:33 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Honestly I thought you hadn't finished.

    Balance Point: What are they meant to compare with? Wizards? Psions? Psychic Warriors? Warblades? Barbarians? Fighters? Monks?

    Psionics: What stat do they use? Why do they get higher level psionic powers than Psychic Warriors? I'd advice something closer to a Psychic Warrior's progression than a psion. Also, at least in the movies, they have nothing to compare to high level spells/powers (in the games and later books they seem to toggle between 9th level characters and "I can destroy solar systems with a thought").

    Maneuvers: What disciplines do they have access to? What's their recovery method?

    Bonus Feats: What feats can they choose from?

    Lightsaber: As written it has no crafting time, or crafting cost so they can just get materials and make checks till they succeed. Also critical hit chance is way to high. DC 40, assuming Int +0 and no magic, can be made at level 15 with 20 attempts. With magic items borrowed from the wizard/psion this goes to 12th level. Then you enchant it (or take Improved Critical as a feat) and you have an 50% chance of x4 damage. Skill Focus, an actual Int bonus, an allied marshal, spells could get them having this far earlier. Don't tie lightsaber power to a skill check, base it off of character level at least or class level.
    Peanut Dracolich avatar by Emperor Ing.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    I think you forgot to post half your class then started wondering why people aren't commenting on it.
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Wait, how are you fluffing the Lightsaber?

    Could you instead go with a Flameblade device? Just slap a Flameblade Runestone onto a CL 5 Arcane Power Tapestry with a low-cap (likely 5) battery with a charging crystal or two and you got yourself a bonafide lightsaber.

    Edit: Ignore the above if you don't know what Magitech is.
    Last edited by Welknair; 2011-05-25 at 06:37 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Wait, how are you fluffing the Lightsaber?

    Could you instead go with a Flameblade device? Just slap a Flameblade Runestone onto a CL 5 Arcane Power Tapestry with a low-cap (likely 5) battery with a charging crystal or two and you got yourself a bonafide lightsaber.

    Edit: Ignore the above if you don't know what Magitech is.
    I do, barely. The copy book I got containing it was rather blurry so I skimmed really...
    But I get the idea.
    Its already not to Sith like. But thats just the general idea to pass along.

    EDIT:

    Oh. and theres already Lightsabers really. Their just brilliant energy weapons. with the whole blades all energy, ignores armor. ect
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-05-25 at 07:32 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    I do, barely. The copy book I got containing it was rather blurry so I skimmed really...
    But I get the idea.
    Huh. That's really weird. Did it actually mention that stuff I was just yabbering?


    And I didn't know that the power of a Jedi/Sith's lightsaber scaled with level... Then again, I guess that's kinda necessary for D&D.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Huh. That's really weird. Did it actually mention that stuff I was just yabbering?


    And I didn't know that the power of a Jedi/Sith's lightsaber scaled with level... Then again, I guess that's kinda necessary for D&D.
    They did in the StarWars d20 game; got up to 6d8 (with careful PrC dipping you could get 7d8 in the core book).

    Bounty Hunters were better.
    Peanut Dracolich avatar by Emperor Ing.

    My homebrew (now includes a giant undead brain)

    If you ever want to try some of my homebrew and need a DM send me a PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Would anyone prefer removing Psionics for more.. custom class features?

    EDIT: well, I'm doing it...

    Edit2:

    I love it!
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-05-25 at 11:45 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    Would anyone prefer removing Psionics for more.. custom class features?

    EDIT: well, I'm doing it...

    Edit2:

    I love it!
    Psychic Warrior powers + mindblade + some monk abilities should be a good jedi/sith
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith

    Quote Originally Posted by umbrapolaris View Post
    Psychic Warrior powers + mindblade + some monk abilities should be a good jedi/sith
    Full Psychic Warrior powers probably go a bit too far, I don't know of any Jedi that become huge tentacle creatures. Psychic Warriors tend to do that.
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith PEACH!!!

    I'm told that in The Old Republic, you can play light-side Sith (and dark-side Jedi) so I'm OK with the alignment.
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith PEACH!!!

    Chassis: Really strong chassis. 3/4 BAB is made up for by the Lightsaber (by a long ways, but I'll get there later), with 2 good saves, 6 + Int skills, and a strong skill list. d8 hit die is the closest thing to a downside, but that's average more than bad.

    Alignment Restrictions: No LG or CE strikes me as random and a touch arbitrary. Might want to call the class "Force Adept" or something more generic because "Sith" carries with it a lot of assumed information. No idea why CE would be excluded either way. "The structure of the dark side" doesn't make much sense, and just isn't a thing. The Dark Side is about passion and emotion. The fluff descriptions in general seem to be a mix of the Sith race, Sith organization, and Sith as dark side users.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I'm told that in The Old Republic, you can play light-side Sith (and dark-side Jedi) so I'm OK with the alignment.
    It's worth noting that, in The Old Republic, Sith are a faction, effectively. Not an "Order" like the class seems more interested in representing. So that's why you can be light-side. Like how in WoW the Horde aren't all bad guys.

    Proficiencies: Good proficiencies here. Keeps their defenses up, and the baller Lightsaber proficiency.

    Lightsaber Crafting: Woo... man.

    First off, you should specify how much the special components would cost. A crystal and metal is pretty meaningless. Problem is, determining a fair price for these things, since lightsabers are kind of nuts. I don't say that about weapons a lot, but even if it were only a free Brilliant Energy+ enchantment, these would be crazy. The boosted damage and crit range, too? Yikes. It's worth a party member dipping Sith just to get these for everyone. Non-proficiency isn't even an issue, that's all of a -4 to hit.

    You also need to be more specific about what bonuses/whatnot carry over when you make a Light-longspear or Light-spiked chain. Final note: ridiculously powerful. You get a free +4 weapon enchantment (a better version of it, no less, since it still hurts undead and other non-living things) and can make these to your heart's content.

    Maneuvers: The discipline choices seem ok. Stone Dragon sticks out the most from a "sith" theme. Biggest concern? The recover mechanic. Might as well not have one. A free action 1/round? That means you are never, ever down a maneuver. You never need to make a choice as to what to use. Used a maneuver this round? Just recover it afterward. Need a different one? Switch it out for free. This is the best recover mechanic, like, ever.

    Force Push will never have a reliably relevant DC. Without doing its own damage, you're better off just using a maneuver. That costs you nothing to use, and is essentially guaranteed to work. Also I have no idea what kind of action this is. Standard? Move? Supernatural? Extraordinary?

    Leap is just kind of there. It's fine. Need to specify what type the bonus is.

    Force Choke needs rewording. Do they get to hold their breath when this is happening? If so, this is pretty pointless, since it'll take for-friggin'-ever to kill/hurt anything with it. If they don't get to hold their breath, it's OP. One failed save = unconscious, two = disabled, three = dead.

    Warp's wording needs fixing. Half the movement is a teleport? That doesn't mean anything. What, specifically, can they do with this, what is avoided, what can still happen to them, etc.

    Force Crush is whatever. Likely more useful to just use another maneuver than stand still choking someone forever (or doesn't matter anyway since they're already dead on the ground.)

    Walls is cool enough. Though, the way its worded, you could end on the ceiling, assuming its not a sloped ceiling.

    Force Lightning is... whuh? When does the lightning affect them? Just... using force push on them? When they fail related saves? Because doing 18d8 Lightning + 18d8 Force damage (which is how this functions the way it's currently worded) with no save (or even with a save) is nothing to sneeze at.

    Hover is so incredibly underwhelming I almost fell asleep. At 19th level, you can mimic the effects of a second level spell... almost. Admittedly, I probably took this class for the lightsaber and maneuver refresh mechanic and PrC'd out ASAP to warblade, but this is a really sad way to reward someone going all the way through your class.

    Overall: it's an incredibly mixed bag of WTF powerful stuff and class abilities that are literally impossible to use as written. I recommend doing some reading over of official classes and other people's homebrew to get a feel for how things need to be worded and what information needs to be contained in any given class ability. Until then, it's a stellar one level dip. That's... about it.
    Last edited by Hyooz; 2011-05-26 at 04:57 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith PEACH!!!

    Alignment Restrictions: No LG or CE strikes me as random and a touch arbitrary. Might want to call the class "Force Adept" or something more generic because "Sith" carries with it a lot of assumed information. No idea why CE would be excluded either way. "The structure of the dark side" doesn't make much sense, and just isn't a thing. The Dark Side is about passion and emotion. The fluff descriptions in general seem to be a mix of the Sith race, Sith organization, and Sith as dark side users.

    I wanted to make a sith, but it dwindled and dwindled until really only the name remained... changing.
    You also need to be more specific about what bonuses/whatnot carry over when you make a Light-longspear or Light-spiked chain.
    I did. I said its all the same save for things such as reach. Their already sorta considered small weapons, as its just a hilt until you activate them. But things like pull arms or spiked chains, whips. They could all make nice Light- things. Making trip attempts doesn't make much sense with a thing of energy. So asside from cool factor, Light-Scythes won't be very beneficial...
    Maneuvers: The discipline choices seem ok. Stone Dragon sticks out the most from a "sith" theme. Biggest concern? The recover mechanic. Might as well not have one. A free action 1/round? That means you are never, ever down a maneuver. You never need to make a choice as to what to use. Used a maneuver this round? Just recover it afterward. Need a different one? Switch it out for free. This is the best recover mechanic, like, ever.
    Well, there is one class that recovers ALL maneuvers as a swift action...
    Force Push will never have a reliably relevant DC.
    What?
    Leap is just kind of there. It's fine. Need to specify what type the bonus is.

    Force Choke needs rewording. Do they get to hold their breath when this is happening?
    Wouldn't make much sense. Its not like they exactly can. Your blocking airways from affar. there isn't really much warning.
    Warp's wording needs fixing. Half the movement is a teleport? That doesn't mean anything. What, specifically, can they do with this, what is avoided, what can still happen to them, etc.

    Walls is cool enough. Though, the way its worded, you could end on the ceiling, assuming its not a sloped ceiling.
    Its worded pretty much the same as ":up the Walls" only an ass of a player would try to end their turn on a ceiling ingame.

    Force Lightning is... whuh? When does the lightning affect them? Just... using force push on them? When they fail related saves? Because doing 18d8 Lightning + 18d8 Force damage (which is how this functions the way it's currently worded) with no save (or even with a save) is nothing to sneeze at.
    Ye. but by that level a wizard could have equally potent effects or what not.

    edit. damn, I really screwed up the Quotes.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-05-27 at 01:50 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    I honestly think this class does a bit too much...
    Everything.

    I mean; it can deal damage as a full caster, can join the melee as good as a swordsage, but even better because their weapon deals 10(?)d4 damage per attack, and weighs nothing, and can easily be changed to be a light weapon.

    In addition, a lot of abilities are very unclear in their wording.

    Anyway; if I were you, I'd definitely tone down the lightsaber damage, following the monk's table (but less powerful than the monk's Unarmed Strike damage, obviously). Make it use less dice, as well. d4s are awesome for averages, of course, but add manoeuvres to the mix, and you'll just keep rolling and adding those dice... Maybe fun at first, but it gets old quickly.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Sith PEACH!!!

    Why would I want my blade of energy to do less then some guys fist?
    I'll change the die though. I'm fond of d4's but I guess it is a bit much when ya gotta keep'em rolling.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-05-27 at 01:49 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    The crit chance still breaks things. 30% chance of crit (average damage with blue crystal 23 + Str + Power Attack vs Touch AC all that x4) upped to 60% with one feat means average damage at Lv 20 is 186.8 per hit (~600 with a full attack) before you start using maneuvers and charges.

    The crit chance needs to be quite a bit lower, honestly 19-20/x4 is extremely lethal.
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    The crit chance still breaks things. 30% chance of crit (average damage with blue crystal 23 + Str + Power Attack vs Touch AC all that x4) upped to 60% with one feat means average damage at Lv 20 is 186.8 per hit (~600 with a full attack) before you start using maneuvers and charges.

    The crit chance needs to be quite a bit lower, honestly 19-20/x4 is extremely lethal.

    Yes I did the math (and only got 160 for max rolls, though without feats or anything and on a crit). At level twenty, at least in our games, Thats low enough. One punk dealt 1300 damage in a full attack...
    Another had a scythe that they managed to get a crit range of 5 on. Wait! I think those were the same person.

    I don't see how dealing a bit of damage like that is to much for a twentieth level character.

    xD wait, I think were level thirty.
    Still...
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-05-27 at 05:21 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    I like the idea of a force adept, but some of the shenanigans are a little off. Like Shadow Hand maneuvers, which means that force adepts can teleport if they want to (@_@). I recommend seeking out a homebrew discipline of some kind for that.

    There are also those whole lightsaber-creation shenanigans. I do believe that all the bad guys use red lightsabers, good guy trainees use blue, and masters use green. Mace Windu uses purple and he's like the greatest jedi in the world... so why the hierarchy?

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by YouLostMe View Post
    I like the idea of a force adept, but some of the shenanigans are a little off. Like Shadow Hand maneuvers, which means that force adepts can teleport if they want to (@_@). I recommend seeking out a homebrew discipline of some kind for that.

    There are also those whole lightsaber-creation shenanigans. I do believe that all the bad guys use red lightsabers, good guy trainees use blue, and masters use green. Mace Windu uses purple and he's like the greatest jedi in the world... so why the hierarchy?

    I'm separating the colors from the movie mostly to avoid Starwars fanatics who go off on "Well, That can't be possible because xx happened in xx ep xx or book xx"
    Green crystals just contain less energy then a Yellow or Silver crystal, for example.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    Yes I did the math (and only got 160 for max rolls, though without feats or anything and on a crit). At level twenty, at least in our games, Thats low enough. One punk dealt 1300 damage in a full attack...
    Another had a scythe that they managed to get a crit range of 5 on. Wait! I think those were the same person.

    I don't see how dealing a bit of damage like that is to much for a twentieth level character.

    xD wait, I think were level thirty.
    Still...
    This is without maximized ubercharging which can multiply it by quite a bit. Actually with 1 level in Barbarian for Pounce the numbers I used for charge damage could be trippled due to pounce. The problem isn't doing a little bit of damage it's doing damage several times greater than anything other than an uber-charger.

    And Lightning Maces for even more attacks to multiply the damage several fold. When with a single full-attack you can kill anything in any Monster Manual at will all day, and can teleport via maneuvers there are problems.

    Or to put it another way it means they deal about x3 or more damage compared to everyone else with equal optimization. This is not a good idea.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2011-05-27 at 09:42 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    This is without maximized ubercharging which can multiply it by quite a bit. Actually with 1 level in Barbarian for Pounce the numbers I used for charge damage could be trippled due to pounce. The problem isn't doing a little bit of damage it's doing damage several times greater than anything other than an uber-charger.

    And Lightning Maces for even more attacks to multiply the damage several fold. When with a single full-attack you can kill anything in any Monster Manual at will all day, and can teleport via maneuvers there are problems.

    Or to put it another way it means they deal about x3 or more damage compared to everyone else with equal optimization. This is not a good idea.


    very well...

    1: 1d6, 19-20 x2 Illumination (lightsaber emits dim light within 10 feet)
    3: 1d8, 19-20 x3
    6: 2d4, 18-20 x3 Hits incorporeal.
    9: 1d10, 18-20 x4
    12: 1d12. 17-20 x4 Ignores armor, natural armor, and first 20 of hardness.
    15: 2d6, 17-20 x4
    18: 2d8, 16-20 x4 Hits ethereal.
    20: 1d20, 15-20 x4

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Why should it deal less damage than a monk's attack?
    Well; for a few reasons:
    A: The most important reason: The Monk's damage is unique. By granting a lightsaber BETTER damage, you're basically killing the main class feature of an already relatively weak class.
    B: The Monk doesn't get enhancement lens colours.
    C: The Monk doesn't get manoeuvres.
    D: The Monk's unarmed strike will never get a crit multiplier of more than x2, and the crit range is 20; even with Improved Critical, you're looking at a 10% crit chance rather than a 30% crit chance (50% with Improved Critical).

    I understand you want to make the class the coolest as can be, and awesomely powerful, but if you can make it awesome without making it more powerful than a core class, then you've really succeeded.
    Also: Don't try to balance the class so that it can keep up with a munchkin when played by a non-munchkin player. There will always be people who look for every single whole in the rules to make their character top of the pops and unbeatable; don't make the mistake of taking those people as the 'average damage output' to balance your own class around.
    Last edited by Dryad; 2011-05-28 at 12:41 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound like a noob here, but...what exactly is "Favored Weapon, Lightsaber"? You didn't say it was as a bonus feat, so I guess it's not a feat, but you didn't explain the class feature either.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Ehehehehe I didn't even notice that. I'm pretty sure Cipherthe3vil meant to Weapon Focus (Lightsaber) or something of the sort.

    Favored weapons are only in relation to deities. I don't know how I missed that.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by YouLostMe View Post
    Ehehehehe I didn't even notice that. I'm pretty sure Cipherthe3vil meant to Weapon Focus (Lightsaber) or something of the sort.

    Favored weapons are only in relation to deities. I don't know how I missed that.
    I thought that at first too, but she has the class gaining Weapon Focus (Lightsaber) two levels before the Favored Weapon class feature, and Weapon Specialization (Lightsaber) 4 levels after it. So it's not either of those.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    No. That was just a mistake I guess, I don't remember wanting favored weapon, Must have looked at a different name then the description I read.
    though I don't remember what I was looking for anymore...
    This class is fail anyway. I'll be sure to not fail so much with the next.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-05-29 at 01:55 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dryad View Post
    Why should it deal less damage than a monk's attack?
    Well; for a few reasons:
    A: The most important reason: The Monk's damage is unique. By granting a lightsaber BETTER damage, you're basically killing the main class feature of an already relatively weak class.
    B: The Monk doesn't get enhancement lens colours.
    C: The Monk doesn't get manoeuvres.
    D: The Monk's unarmed strike will never get a crit multiplier of more than x2, and the crit range is 20; even with Improved Critical, you're looking at a 10% crit chance rather than a 30% crit chance (50% with Improved Critical).

    I understand you want to make the class the coolest as can be, and awesomely powerful, but if you can make it awesome without making it more powerful than a core class, then you've really succeeded.
    Also: Don't try to balance the class so that it can keep up with a munchkin when played by a non-munchkin player. There will always be people who look for every single whole in the rules to make their character top of the pops and unbeatable; don't make the mistake of taking those people as the 'average damage output' to balance your own class around.

    Core classes are lame anyway and are outshined by alternate source material, such as Complete Warrior.

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    Default Re: [3.5]The Force Adept (Peach meh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    Core classes are lame anyway and are outshined by alternate source material, such as Complete Warrior.
    I agree. I think she's trying to balance it higher, like tier 3 or tier 2. The monk is pretty low on the totem pole, and she doesn't have to concern herself with overshadowing it completely if she's trying to make a class more on par with a warblade, etc anyway.

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