Dealing with Rope Trick.

[Flame of Anor]

You don't get it.

You seal the window.

Their only way out ...

...in an ambush. Three layers...

...they start to get concerned...Make sure to read up on the drowning rules...

...Should make for a very memorable encounter, if anyone survives....

And this kind of thing is why I would be a bad DM.

Huh. That's hilarious, then. Disintegrate really doesn't work on trees by RAW.

This is the funniest thing I've seen all week.

[Safety Sword]

This is the funniest thing I've seen all week.

What happens if you poke the Rope Trick window with a tree, surely the universe implodes?

[Pigkappa]

a way to deal with rope trick is to enforce money weight. gold is really heavy particularly when you have a lot of it. They could carry gems but then they will be in trouble when they only have 5000 gp gems and want to buy a 4000 gp item.
This basically forces them to take bags of holding which cant be safely placed inside the rope trick. which severely limits what they can do.

many dm house rule away that feature but its in the rules and its as bad as you want it to be.

You can't play without having some extradimensional storage item. They have a bag of holding inside the Rope Trick; I'll just apply the rule so that they can't open it while they're inside.

This is already harmful because they will have to keep their complete armors, and that's a -10 to Swim checks.

[Jack_Simth]

So. . . wait, is that a way for Wizards to get around disintigrate?

DM- Bad guy casts spell at you!
WIZ- Spellcraft! What is the spell?
DM- Disintigrate.
WIZ- I have a contingency (whatever spell would work here) to become a tree for 1 round!
DM- Ok. . . he finishes, roll fort.
WIZ- No! I'ma Tree! HAHAHA!!!!
DM- . . . . . .

LOL

You'll have to look long and hard for a spell that will do so properly. See, almost no effect actually gets rid of your Wis and Cha scores while still leaving you a living thing. Polymorph Any Object won't cut it here.

[GeminiVeil]

You'll have to look long and hard for a spell that will do so properly. See, almost no effect actually gets rid of your Wis and Cha scores while still leaving you a living thing. Polymorph Any Object won't cut it here.

It was more to point out the absurdity. Which a lot of RAW doesn't need it pointed out, but all the same, thought it was funny.

[Sinfonian]

You can't play without having some extradimensional storage item. They have a bag of holding inside the Rope Trick; I'll just apply the rule so that they can't open it while they're inside.

It's also handy to mention that RAW the only interaction between extradimensional items is specifically between Bag of Holding and Portable Hole. Anything else is done by DM discretion. It's not unreasonable to judge, but it's not a mandatory rule.

Edit: I love the discovery in this thread that trees aren't legal targets for Disintegrate. Incoming fortifications made out of living wood as a trademark of druids in my next game.

[Jack_Simth]

It's also handy to mention that RAW the only interaction between extradimensional items is specifically between Bag of Holding and Portable Hole. Anything else is done by DM discretion. It's not unreasonable to judge, but it's not a mandatory rule.

Sort-of. In the same vein that "combustible" items are not game-defined, nor is the melting point of metals, but Lightning Bolt specifies that they're set on fire or melted, Rope Trick specifies that "It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one."

Are the specific consequences defined? No. But the rules specify that they should exist.

Edit: I love the discovery in this thread that trees aren't legal targets for Disintegrate. Incoming fortifications made out of living wood as a trademark of druids in my next game.

It is funny, yes.

[Psyren]

Babau Demons:

- Summonable via SMVII
- At will Greater Teleport + See Invisibility to find the opening
- At will Dispel Magic to end it
- 100 ft. Telepathy to communicate with other guards

Have a few of them patrol the dungeon if Rope Trick is really a problem. Your players will get the hint eventually.

[Coidzor]

Edit: I love the discovery in this thread that trees aren't legal targets for Disintegrate. Incoming fortifications made out of living wood as a trademark of druids in my next game.

They do have several spells along those lines already, yeah. plus, livewood.

[Essence_of_War]

Jack_Smith,

I just read your strategy on sealing the entrace with layers leading them into an ambush.

My players are running through "Necropolis" right now, and if they pull the 15 minute workday + rope trick at any point in the Tomb of Rahotep they are getting hit HARD with this

[Essence_of_War]

Babau Demons:

- Summonable via SMVII
- At will Greater Teleport + See Invisibility to find the opening
- At will Dispel Magic to end it
- 100 ft. Telepathy to communicate with other guards

Have a few of them patrol the dungeon if Rope Trick is really a problem. Your players will get the hint eventually.

A bound Ghaele, or Avoral, could fit the bill also. The latter is also summonable by SM VII.

[Jack_Simth]

Jack_Smith,

I just read your strategy on sealing the entrace with layers leading them into an ambush.

My players are running through "Necropolis" right now, and if they pull the 15 minute workday + rope trick at any point in the Tomb of Rahotep they are getting hit HARD with this

Glad to help.

Do bear in mind, though:
1) This particular counter only really makes sense inside a place that's organized (some form of patrol that checks the assorted occupied rooms periodically, someone who goes and checks on people who don't show up when they're supposed to do so, some form of scouts / maintenance staff that will report the bodies, or some form of alarm system to alert someone to deal with it) - this also implies some form of head honcho (making rules), and doing so intelligently (so you don't pull this in a place full of animals, insects, oozes, skeletons, and zombies ... unless they're being specifically controlled)

2) This particular method requires a certain set of resources - Two Wall of Stone spells, a Detect Magic to locate the window, some number of buffs suitable for laying down on minions, a bunch of minions, and a decanter of endless water. You've got at least a 9th level caster involved. If this requires resources from the dungeon boss (or someone else in the dungeon that the party would reasonably encounter soon), play fair, and make certain to check off his resources used (So that Wizard-9 they're after is short two 5th level spells, a cantrip, and whatever spell slots for the buffs he put on his minions, plus the wealth allotment for the Decanter - this trap cost him a hefty dose of opportunity). If they rest up *again* before they encounter him, fine, but they probably won't ... and you really ought to play fair with such things.

3) Obstacles still have a CR rating. They should get XP separately for getting through the flooded room, as well as facing down the assorted minions.

A bound Ghaele, or Avoral, could fit the bill also. The latter is also summonable by SM VII.

You use Planar Binding or Planar Ally, not Summons. A couple of reasons:
1) Planar Binding can get you anything on this list with 6th level and lower spells (11th level caster vs. 13th level caster).
2) Planar Binding lasts much, much longer than summons (up to days/level, vs. rounds/level) - much better for patrol tasks.
3) While yes, Planar Binding and Planar Ally involve risks and/or costs, those can be mostly hand-waved away if you give XP separately for any encounter with the bound / allied creature.

[Pigkappa]

To be back in topic, how does attacking underwater works? Supposing they pass the (easy, if they don't wear their complete armors) swim checks with DC = 10, would they be able to attack with no penalties?

[Jack_Simth]

To be back in topic, how does attacking underwater works? Supposing they pass the (easy, if they don't wear their complete armors) swim checks with DC = 10, would they be able to attack with no penalties?

Nope. Without Freedom of Movement or similar, they take some of an assortment of penalties, which are a bit complex to list here. But I did supply a link.

[Jaraak]

Do any of them have a pouch of holding? Isn't there something about extradimensional spaces inside extradimensional spaces?

If not. I'd mage hand a Bag of Holding Type I through the window when the first one tries to leave.

[Jack_Simth]

Do any of them have a pouch of holding? Isn't there something about extradimensional spaces inside extradimensional spaces?

There sort-of is. At the end of the spell description for Rope Trick, it says: "Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one. "

That's all it says about it. The only other place 3.5 Core references that sort of thing is the specific Bag of Holding / Portable Hole interaction. Some people follow the FAQ, some people don't, but the FAQ said to ignore the note at the end of Rope Trick. Others use the Rope Trick clause to apply the Portable Hole / Bag of Holding interaction to all such interactions. Your mileage may vary, check with your DM.

[Dwoir]

It might be fun to trap them in the rope trick with the Wall of Stone idea, but for added fun and/or deviousness, might as well put a portable hole in between the window and the stone. It may be that a bag of holding and a rope trick don't cause rifts, but I'd like to see how a party (or a party member) could escape past a portable hole (which stretches past the window's dimensions) if they are carrying bags of holding

Which prompts a further idea: After locating the window, what if a portable hole was placed under the window, and then brought up to encompass the window (then folded, yadayada)? Would the rope trick entrance be inside the portable hole?

[Safety Sword]

It might be fun to trap them in the rope trick with the Wall of Stone idea, but for added fun and/or deviousness, might as well put a portable hole in between the window and the stone. It may be that a bag of holding and a rope trick don't cause rifts, but I'd like to see how a party (or a party member) could escape past a portable hole (which stretches past the window's dimensions) if they are carrying bags of holding

Which prompts a further idea: After locating the window, what if a portable hole was placed under the window, and then brought up to encompass the window (then folded, yadayada)? Would the rope trick entrance be inside the portable hole?

And then throw the portable hole into the "fires of Mt. Doom", so to speak... I like it

[Psyren]

You use Planar Binding or Planar Ally, not Summons. A couple of reasons:
1) Planar Binding can get you anything on this list with 6th level and lower spells (11th level caster vs. 13th level caster).
2) Planar Binding lasts much, much longer than summons (up to days/level, vs. rounds/level) - much better for patrol tasks.
3) While yes, Planar Binding and Planar Ally involve risks and/or costs, those can be mostly hand-waved away if you give XP separately for any encounter with the bound / allied creature.

Agreed that Binding is better due to the duration, though I will point out that (a) most BBEGs are above level 13 anyway, (b) the Summon X line is available to a wider variety of classes than PB and PA and (c) it's much easier to put Outsiders in danger when the know they can't be killed as a result.

And then throw the portable hole into the "fires of Mt. Doom", so to speak... I like it

Keep in mind that no party is forced to leave a rope trick, portable hole or other planar enclosure by its opening, so long as they can planeshift or similar.

[Safety Sword]

Keep in mind that no party is forced to leave a rope trick, portable hole or other planar enclosure by its opening, so long as they can planeshift or similar.

It's more about making them work more than 15 minutes a day than actually trapping them in there.

I can imagine not wanting to be in the Rope Trick when the baddies are unfolding a portable hole for deployment onto your resting place. Might make them actually come out "willingly"

[The Random NPC]

Babau Demons:

- Summonable via SMVII
- At will Greater Teleport + See Invisibility to find the opening
- At will Dispel Magic to end it
- 100 ft. Telepathy to communicate with other guards

Have a few of them patrol the dungeon if Rope Trick is really a problem. Your players will get the hint eventually.

Dispel Magic would only end it if
1:They haven't pulled the rope up yet
2:They're already done
3:Dispel Magic has somehow been modified to work across dimensions