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    Default 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    I like the bard class as it is, but it has quite a few dead levels, and a couple of its songs have problems. Countersong is a bit situational, and even its ACF Spellbreaker Song only lasts 3 rounds and you can't activate it as an immediate action, so you have to kind of guess when the opponent is going to use its spells. Inspire Competence doesn't scale, and a +2 bonus to a skill check isn't going to get you far in the days past 10th level.

    Note: This bard is designed to be balanced with core supplements, and I'm trying to make it good enough to stand on its own without optimization. This bard variant is not compatible with the feat Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds)

    So, with that in mind, I present the conductor bard! (Credit goes to Velkim for the name)


    The Conductor Bard


    "Today's music ain't got the same soul! I like that old time rock n roll!" Bob Seger, the world's greatest bard

    Some bards enjoy sitting back and singing so much, they never really bothered to learn to defend themselves. While other bards can conjure up an illusion or summon an elemental to protect themselves, the conductor bard spends his time inventing new songs, and relies more on his allies to save him when danger comes. But in exchange for their continued support, he has a host of new abilities that can increase their power.

    HD: d6
    Alignment: Any nonlawful

    Class Skills: The bardís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Skill Points: 8+Int per level (x4 at first level)

    {table]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
    1 | +0 | +0 | +2 | +2 | Bardic music, Inspire Battle +2, Inspire Defenses +2, Fascinate, Bardic Knowledge, Dancing Blade
    2 | +1 | +0 | +3 | +3 | Excellent Performer, Deafening Song
    3 | +2 | +1 | +3 | +3 | Inspire Competence
    4 | +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Inspire Courage
    5 | +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Inspire Fear, Inspire Battle +4, Inspire Defense +4
    6 | +4 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Suggestion
    7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Inspire Vigor, Gentle Song
    8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | +6 | Disgusting Song
    9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | +6 | Inspire Superiority, Inspire Inferiority
    10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Inspire Battle +6, Inspire Defense +6
    11 | +8 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Song of Swiftness, Song of Hesitation
    12 | +9 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Harmony
    13 | +9 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Healing Song, Extended Performance
    14 | +10 | +4 | +9 | +9 | Inspire Evasion, Distracting Song
    15 | +11 | +5 | +9 | +9 | Inspire Battle +8, Inspire Defense +8
    16 | +12 | +5 | +10 | +10 | Song of the White Raven
    17 | +12 | +5 | +10 | +10 | Inspire Freedom
    18 | +13 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Mass Suggestion
    19 | +14 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Power Chords
    20 | +15 | +6 | +12 | +12 | Master Performer, Inspire Battle +10, Inspire Defense +10 [/table]

    Class Features:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Bards are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

    Bardic Music: Once per day per bard level, plus an additional time per day per point of Charisma bonus (minimum +0), a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies (fa-la-la, and so forth), whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. Each ability requires both a minimum bard level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill to qualify; if a bard does not have the required number of ranks in at least one Perform skill, he does not gain the bardic music ability until he acquires the needed ranks.

    Each bardic music ability has a required minimum ranks in the Perform skill equal to the bard level it is gained +3. This also applies for songs with a scaling ability, such as Inspire Battle, Inspire Defense, and Inspire Fear. If the bard has enough ranks to use the initial song, but not enough ranks to use the scaled song when he gains the level, the bard instead uses the weaker version of the song until his ranks in Perform are high enough.

    All bardic music abilities are mind-affecting abilities unless otherwise noted. All bardic music abilities have the sonic descriptor, and can only affect creatures who are able to hear the bard perform. (Unlike the PHB Bard, the Bard variant cannot perform Bardic Music with the Perform (Dance) skill, or any other Perform check that does not actually create sound). Unless otherwise noted, if a bardic music ability affects all allies, it affects the bard himself too.

    The duration of any bardic music ability, unless otherwise noted, is for as long as the bard continues to perform, plus an additional 5 rounds after he stops performing.

    The DC for any saving throws allowed by Bardic Music are equal to 10+1/2 the bard's level+his Charisma modifier. If a bard takes the Ability Focus feat, he must specify which specific song he is assigning it to. The bard may take the Ability Focus feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time he takes it, he chooses a new song to apply it to.

    Bardic Knowledge (Ex): This ability is the same as the PHB Bard

    Fascinate (Sp): This ability is the same as the PHB Bard

    Inspire Battle (Su): The bard can play a heavy chord that gets his allies pumped for battle. All allies within 30 feet gain a +2 morale bonus on their attack and damage rolls. This increases by an additional +2 at level 5, and every 5 levels after (to a maximum of +10 at level 20)

    Inspire Defense (Su): The bard can play a warning song that encourages his allies to stay on their guard. All allies within 30 feet gain a +2 competence bonus to their AC and saving throws. This increases by an additional +2 at level 5, and every 5 levels after (to a maximum of +10 at level 20)

    Dancing Blade (Su): When the bard begins his performance, his weapon joins the fray anyway. If a bard plays an instrument that requires use of both hands, his weapon floats in the air, acting on its own. The weapon occupies the same square as the bard, and moves with him, but cannot leave his space. It attacks an enemy that comes within range. (If there are multiple enemies, the bard chooses one as a free action). The weapon cannot make attacks of opportunity. It uses the bard's Base Attack Bonus and Strength modifier to hit as usual (unless the bard has the Weapon Finesse feat and is using a finessable weapon, in which case the weapon uses his Dexterity modifier, etc). The weapon benefits from its own enhancements, as usual, but does not gain a bonus to damage rolls from the bard's Strength modifier, nor does it gain any bonuses to attacks or damage rolls from effects that target the bard instead of the weapon (Such as the bard's morale bonus from Inspire Battle). When the bard stops his performance, the weapon returns to his hand as a free action. If the bard's weapon already has the Dancing quality, he need not use this class feature.

    For the purposes of the Dancing Blade class feature, a shield is not treated as a weapon.

    If the bard has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, he may have two weapons dancing simultaneously, however the strain on his concentration results in him taking a -2 penalty to attack rolls with each weapon (This penalty replaces whatever normal penalty he would suffer for wielding two weapons). The bard may only have two weapons dancing simultaneously if one or more of them is a light weapon. (The Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat does not allow the bard to have two one-handed weapons dancing at the same time)

    Spoiler
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    Author's Note: If this ability is unbalanced, please tell me. The main reason I made it was so that bards who didn't use the Perform (Sing) skill could still attack in battle, as that always bothered me about PHB bards. I wanted to make it so if a bard wanted to play a lyre or a drum or a flute he wouldn't have to take himself out of combat


    Deafening Song (Su): Sometimes, the bard chooses his lyrics carefully in order to convey just the right message and encourage his audience to think clearly and reflect on important social issues. And sometimes he just wants to be as loud and crazy as possible. At 2nd level, the bard gains the ability to play a Deafening Song. If a bard plays the Deafening Song, he creates an aura of magical silence, centered on him, for 30 feet. Anyone who is outside the 30 feet radius, but is still 60 feet or less away from the bard, must make a Fortitude save or be deafened for the duration. Unlike most of the bard's bardic music, Deafening Song is not a mind-affecting ability.

    Excellent Performer (Ex): The bard excels greatly on the stage, even when compared to other classes who can Perform such as rogues or monks. Starting at 2nd level, the bard receives a bonus equal to his class level on Perform and Profession checks made to earn a living.

    Inspire Competence (Su): A bard of 3rd level gains the Inspire Competence ability. The bard can use his music and his expertise to assist his allies. A bard may not inspire competence in himself. The ally must be within 30 feet. The bard grants the ally a bonus on one skill check of the bard's choice equal to the bard's class level. The bard may not use this ability to enhance the Autohypnosis, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Listen or Move Silently checks. He may only inspire competence on a check for a Knowledge, Spellcraft, Psicraft, or Martial Lore check if he made the corresponding check himself or made a successful DC 20 Bardic Knowledge check to gain some relevant information.

    Inspire Courage (Su): A 4th level bard gains the Inspire Courage ability. The bard can sing a song of steadfast determination and bravery to encourage his allies to get back on their feet. The bard gains immunity to fear for as long as he sings, and allies within 30 feet gain a +4 morale bonus on their saving throws versus fear. If the bard is allied with a paladin who is within the area of effect, he may instead increase the morale bonus the paladin's Aura of Courage provides by +4, using the paladin in his lyrics as a beacon of hope and inspiration to his other friends.

    Inspire Fear (Su): At 5th level, the bard learns how to use his music to harm his enemies rather than help his allies. When a bard plays the Inspire Fear song, all enemies within 30 feet must make a Will save or become shaken for the duration. If the bard is at least 10th level, his enemies instead become frightened if they fail their save, and shaken if they succeed it. If the bard is at least 15th level, his enemies instead become panicked if they fail their save, and frightened if they succeed it. This ability is treated as a Will (partial) effect for the purposes of the Mettle class feature. Enemies who are immune to fear are immune to Inspire Fear.

    Suggestion (Sp): As the PHB Bard's ability.

    Inspire Vigor (Su): Instead of learning some healing spells, by 7th level the bard has learned to use his music to help jump start his allies' natural healing abilities. When the bard uses this ability, all allies within 30 feet gain Fast Healing equal to 1/2 the bard's class level, to a maximum of Fast Healing 10 at 20th level.

    Gentle Song (Sp): A bard who is not in battle is able to play soft, non-adrenaline fueled lyrics and chords that allow others to relax and smile without worry or care. By spending one use of his bardic music, a bard may project a calm emotions effect. Everyone within 30 feet who hears the bard playing (including the bard, because of how relaxing playing this music is) must make a Will save or be affected as if by the calm emotions spell, with a caster level equal to the bard's class level.

    Disgusting Song (Su): At 8th level, the bard's music is able to hit what is known as "the brown note", and cause physical sickness in those who hear it. When the bard uses his Disgusting Song ability, enemies within 30 feet must make a Fortitude save or be nauseated for the duration. If they succeed their saving throw, they are instead sickened for the duration. This effect is treated as a Fortitude (partial) effect for the purposes of the Mettle class feature. Unlike most of the bard's Bardic Music, Disgusting Song is not a mind-affecting ability.

    Inspire Superiority (Su): At 9th level, the bard can launch into a bursting melody that makes his allies feel mightier than the strongest dragon. All allies within 30 feet gain 2 bonus d10 Hit Dice. They roll 2d10 and add twice their Constitution modifier to it, and gain the amount as temporary Hit Points. Every ally receives a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls and a +1 competence bonus on all saving throws. Their effective Hit Dice are treated as being two higher for the purposes of whether abilities such as Frightful Presence or sleep affect them.

    Inspire Inferiority (Su): At 9th level, a bard's jeering and disrespectful comments cut deep and result in weakened fighting spirit. All enemies within 30 feet of the bard must make a Will save or receive 2 temporary negative levels. These negative levels never result in actual level loss, but cannot be removed by any means until 5 rounds after the bard stops singing.

    Song of Swiftness (Sp): An 11th level bard can get his allies moving quickly. When the bard plays the Song of Swiftness, his allies gain the benefits of the haste spell for the duration, though this does not stack with the actual spell of the same name. This ability also dispels slow.

    Song of Hesitation (Sp): An 11th level bard can use his taunts to cause his enemies to over-analyze their every move and action, to the point where they haven't even decided how to attack by the time they are cut down. When a bard sings the Song of Hesitation, all enemies within 30 feet must make a Will save or be slowed, as the spell, for the duration. This ability dispels haste, and replaces the transmutation descriptor with the mind-affecting descriptor. Creatures immune to transmutation effects are not immune to Song of Hesitation.

    Harmony (Ex): By 12th level, the bard has learned to use lyrics with double-meanings to effectively increase the morale of his allies while simultaneously debilitating his foes. When a bard starts a bardic music ability, he may expend an additional daily use of bardic music to include a second effect in the song, with a different target. (So, he may simultaneously sing a song that affects his allies and a song that affects his enemies, but not two songs that affect his allies or two songs that affect his enemies). The bard may not use this ability to play any song at the same time as he plays Deafening Song.

    Song of Cleansing (Sp): A 13th level bard can sing a soothing melody that restores an ally to almost perfect condition. This song may only target a single ally within 30 feet, and has a duration of instantaneous. It requires a full-round action. The targeted ally is treated as if he had received the benefits of a heal spell cast by the bard, as well as break enchantment (caster level for both is equal to the bard's class level). However, Song of Cleansing does not actually restore hit points (it only removes the negative conditions normally removed by the heal spell). Undead or other creatures harmed by positive energy are not affected by Song of Cleansing.

    Extended Performance (Ex): Starting at 13th level, any bardic music's effect now lasts for one minute after the bard stops performing.

    Inspire Evasion (Su): Once per day, as an immediate action, a bard of 14th level or higher may expend a use of his bardic music to help his allies get out of the way. This does not require any ranks in the Perform skill, but his allies must be within 30 feet and able to hear and understand him. The bard grants himself and all allies within 30 feet who have a base Reflex save of at least +3 the evasion ability (as the PHB rogue) for 1 round.

    If the bard or an ally who hears this has a base Reflex save of at least +7, they instead gain the improved evasion ability (as the PHB rogue) for 1 round.

    Distracting Song (Su): By 14th level the bard is extremely good at coordinating with his allies and can now use his music to help them catch the enemy off guard. All enemies within 30 feet must make a Will save or be treated as flanked for the duration of the song. Additionally, any enemy spellcaster attempting to cast a spell (regardless of whether he succeeded his saving throw) must make a Concentration check opposed by the bard's Perform check. If the bard wins the check, the spell fails and the spellcaster loses his prepared spell/spell slot.

    Song of the White Raven (Su): A 16th level bard has gained the ability to use his music to lead his allies to victory. The bard may not be performing during the round he uses this ability. Once per day, as a full-round action, the bard may expend one daily use of his bardic music for each ally he designates to be targeted by the effect of this ability (including himself). Each ally who is affected by the ability may use an immediate action to charge an enemy designated by the bard (The bard himself must charge this enemy as well). The bard and his allies do not provoke attacks of opportunity for this movement and do not count each other when determining if they have a straight line to charge. If the bard hits the enemy with a melee attack at the end of the charge, the enemy must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the bard's level +the bard's Charisma modifier +2 for each ally other than the bard who hit the enemy during this charge). If the enemy fails this saving throw, he is stunned for 1 round.

    Inspire Freedom (Su): At 17th level, the bard may use his music to help his allies feel the beat and step livelier. All allies within 30 feet gan the benefits of the freedom of movement spell for as long as the bard sings.

    Mass Suggestion (Sp): As the PHB Bard

    Power Chords (Ex): At 19th level, the bard's musical ability is terrifying and captivating. Increase the DC for all saving throws allowed by all the bard's class features by 4.

    Master Performer (Sp): At 20th level, the bard has become the ultimate minstrel and his enemies, even if they are frightened or sick or weak, want nothing more than to jive along with his catchy tunes. All enemies who fail a saving throw against the bard's bardic music abilities are affected by the Irresistible Dance spell for a number of rounds equal to the bard's Charisma modifier (minimum of 4 rounds, no save)


    Alternate Class Feature: Song of Destruction
    Level: 7
    Replaces: A bard with the Song of Destruction ACF does not gain the benefits of the Gentle Song class feature.
    Benefits: A bard with the Song of Destruction class feature is able strum his chords and use the power of his magical ministrations to create the illusion of devastating power. By consuming one daily use of his bardic music class feature and making a Perform check, the bard is able to cast shadow evocation, as the spell, as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to his bard level. Unlike most of his bardic music, the Song of Destruction is not a mind-affecting ability. The DC for the Will save to disbelieve the Song of Destruction is equal to the bard's Perform check, though if the spell he mimics also allows a saving throw, the DC for that spell is equal to 10+the spell level+the bard's Charisma modifier (13+Cha for fireball, for instance).


    Magical Performance
    Prerequisites: Bardic Music class feature, Inspire Fear
    Benefit: You gain the use of two new songs, the Song of Spellpower and the Song of Magical Weakness. Activating either song consumes one of your daily uses of bardic music as normal and lasts as long as a song for you.
    The Song of Spellpower grants your allies (but not you) a bonus to their caster level equal to the bonus your Inspire Battle class feature grants, but it cannot raise their caster level higher than their character level + that bonus. (In other words, if a caster is already boosting his caster level above his character level by some other means, the bonus from your song overlaps but does not stack with that boost)

    Ex: Mark the wizard and Joseph the cleric are both level 5 casters. Simon the level 6 bard plays Song of Spellpower for them. Mark's caster level increases by +4, to its maximum granted by this feat of +9. Joseph's caster level also increases, however, when he casts a cure spell, which his caster level is normally increased for due to his Healing domain power, his caster level is still only 9.

    The Song of Magical Weakness is an enemy-affecting song. Enemies with a caster level within 30 feet of you must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your bard level + your Charisma modifier, +4 if you have the Power Chords class feature) or have their effective caster level decreased by an amount equal to the bonus provided by your Inspire Defense feature for as long as you sing and five rounds after. (1 minute if you have the Extended Performance class feature. This duration also applies to the Song of Spellpower)
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2012-03-20 at 08:25 AM.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    I like this. Quite a lot. Cutting out the spellcasting completely is an interesting move, and the balance between ally and enemy abilities is a good way of giving the bard free choice and many options within a class that has essentially no choices to make throughout progression.
    Dancing blade is interesting, what would happen if the blade he has is already a dancing sword or the like? Would there be no difference or an additional effect? What about if he uses 2 weapons to fight with?
    Might also wanna move deafening song to 2nd level, it's quite powerful and 1st level is looking a bit cluttered, excellent performer is nice but doesn't warrant the only ability of a level after all in the previous one.
    Master Performer made me chuckle, quite nice too and not overpowered.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    I like this. Quite a lot. Cutting out the spellcasting completely is an interesting move, and the balance between ally and enemy abilities is a good way of giving the bard free choice and many options within a class that has essentially no choices to make throughout progression.
    Dancing blade is interesting, what would happen if the blade he has is already a dancing sword or the like? Would there be no difference or an additional effect? What about if he uses 2 weapons to fight with?
    Might also wanna move deafening song to 2nd level, it's quite powerful and 1st level is looking a bit cluttered, excellent performer is nice but doesn't warrant the only ability of a level after all in the previous one.
    Master Performer made me chuckle, quite nice too and not overpowered.
    Hm...Alright, I'll edit the Dancing Blade ability to say if he has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and is using two weapons they can both be affected, and make it so the Dancing ability supercedes his class feature.

    An excellent idea with the Deafening Song ability, I shall change it immediately.

    And thanks for the compliment on Master Performer, I thought it was the perfect capstone for a bard to have.
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    Thumbs up Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    as a frequent barder (the verb of playing a bard) i have only one complaint. if he can't cast spells, then he can't use glibness, therefore putting him at a disadvantage when trying to come up with an excuse as to why he was in the princess's bedroom (or really any other situation involving lying.) I vote it should have 2 names. if it uses mostly enemy affecting music, it should be "The Minor Bard"...if it's music is mostly ally affecting, it should be called "The Major Bard"

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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    Yay kewl pic and formatting improvement!

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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest#1 View Post
    as a frequent barder (the verb of playing a bard) i have only one complaint. if he can't cast spells, then he can't use glibness, therefore putting him at a disadvantage when trying to come up with an excuse as to why he was in the princess's bedroom (or really any other situation involving lying.) I vote it should have 2 names. if it uses mostly enemy affecting music, it should be "The Minor Bard"...if it's music is mostly ally affecting, it should be called "The Major Bard"
    Ah yes, but Glibness is only a third level spell. I don't know about you, but ALL of my characters carry Potions of Glibness, at least 2 as soon as I can afford it. And I just want one name for the class...I appreciate the thought, but Minor and Major don't really seem to strike me that well. The musical reference needs to be..not just obvious, but blatant, you know?

    Besides, even without glibness, this bard's role hasn't changed from Party Face. With his dependence on Charisma intact, and his Skill Points high, he could easily have room to max both Diplomacy and Bluff, and I'm sure whatever DC the DM sets for you wouldn't be too bad by the time you GET Glibness as a spell. (Bards get 3rd level spells known at 7th level, so that's 10 ranks in Bluff already. Assuming around 20 Charisma by that point, that's +15 to your Bluff checks, which is already half of what Glibness gives you anyway.)

    Yay kewl pic and formatting improvement!
    Ah, thank you. Yes, the whole class was a bit of a mess so I spoilered it, and got around to finding a picture and a quote.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-06-01 at 09:54 AM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    How about 'The Conductor Bard'? Entire combats will run to his tune after all...
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

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    Thumbs up Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    awesome idea

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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    This is an interesting version of the bard (I like bards). I like the changes you've made to the music system and find them much in keeping with the theme of a bard as a performer, but a fighter as need arises as well. Harmony I like in particular because it's just something a bard should be able to do as he grows in experience, to layer the magic of his songs.

    I'm still a little new to DnD, so I can't offer anything constructive, but this looks really great. I'd suggest Maestro Bard or just plain old Maestro.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Bard Variant (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    How about 'The Conductor Bard'? Entire combats will run to his tune after all...
    Yes. +1, using. A tip of my hat to you, good sir.

    I'd suggest Maestro Bard or just plain old Maestro.
    Thank you for your comment and suggestion, but I prefer Velkim's suggested name. Sorry.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    By the way, what do you all think of the capstone? In terms of fluff and mechanics.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Fluff makes perfect sense. Mechanics are simple and effective, not too overpowered but certainly worth having. It's not unlike a spell reserve feat effect tbh, but the level spell it imitates is still rather high. With that in mind, I'd say the target should only be affected for 1D4+1 rounds as per the spell of the same name, you're giving a bard level 6 touch range spell as an area effect up to 20 times a day, it doesn't need to be able to work for hours at a time on top of that.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Well, yes, I am, but I added a saving throw to it when there originally was none. How about...1 minute as the duration? It's a 20th level ability after all, and it became available to the original bard as early as 16th level. It's still mind-affecting, and plenty of things are immune to that in epic, after all.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    True, true, but the effect needs a quicker cut-off than 'as long as the bard keeps making noises'

    Allow me to expand upon why I think a long lasting area effect irresistible dance is a bad idea...
    You may take NO ACTIONS other than to dance about like a fool.
    You take -4 to AC
    You take -10 to reflex saves
    You lose all shield bonuses to AC
    You provoke an attack of opportunity each round at the beginning of your turn

    This on a single person is a nasty effect which basically cuts them out of combat for 1D4+1 rounds (usually enough time to finish everyone else off and toy with the dancing fool), the way your capstone reads, any enemy within hearing distance of you who fails a single save against any of your bardic music effects is dancing for 5+concentration rounds (max rounds = as long as you can be bothered to keep making noises). 1 minute is still far too much, considering the usual length of a combat doesn't get past 8 or 9, even nasty slogging combats at high levels.
    Cha mod rounds could really be a better compromise IMHO.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Well, yes, I am, but I added a saving throw to it when there originally was none.
    Touch attacks often don't have a save, because the targets touch AC becomes the save instead. The bardic music doesn't need a touch attack, because it's an area effect, meaning the addition of a save only brings it back in line with a level 6 bard spell
    Last edited by Veklim; 2011-06-03 at 11:35 AM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Alright. Charisma modifier per rounds sounds good.

    Edit: Alright, updated. The bard's Master Performer now lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier, with a minimum of 4 rounds. (Which I don't think is unfair, seeing as if you failed a save at level 20 against a bard whose save stat was 17 or less, you deserve it anyway)
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-06-03 at 11:59 AM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    hehehe, well said.

    Looks fine to me now. This is a really funky re-tooling and I'm sorely tempted to put it up for playing in my next campaign. I have a couple of bard fanatics so if you can wait until after sunday I'll send you their reactions to this class too!
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conducter Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Hey, thanks a lot! It took a real long time, actually, to come up with a bunch of different songs, and I had to rewrite Harmony a few times before I thought it was perfectly balanced. I'm glad you like it.

    Everyone feel free to use my Bard without asking or anything, but I would like some feedback from playtests, please!
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    I myself think it might need a few class features that can be chosen from, sort of personal touches to their performances. Another idea is that you could have the sickening and nausea effects upgrade to being not a disgusting description, but more of a 'brown note' type effect that disrupts their systems. This would mean that it is no longer a mind-affecting effect.

    Also, a good ACF to replace White Raven song would be to allow harmonics to combine two songs that affect allies, but not two songs that affect enemies. The songs might also have their effects lessened slightly.
    Last edited by Gideon Falcon; 2011-06-04 at 07:05 PM.

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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Not a bad idea, perhaps make a bunch of meta-music effects and offer one every 4 levels.
    Using multiple bardic music uses to allow them to do stuff like gaining 1D6 sneak to the dancing weapon, adding sonic damage, removing the mind-affecting descriptor from songs, making all enemies within hearing considered flanked, giving all allies a mind-link effect for duration, etc.
    Make the existant framework adaptable and a little more fluid, perhaps allowing multiple effects at the level you can weave 2 songs....?

    It's cool as is mind you, but it's certainly a thought...
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    This idea sounds interesting...I'm in the middle of relocating at the moment but once I get settled in my new place I'll come back and take a look at this as a possibility.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    First off, I would like to say, this is an amazing class. I have never run a bard, never seen a bard in action, never even thought of a bard, but this class makes me want to do one immediately.

    I do however have some suggestions, mostly born out of playing music and thinking of ways it could apply in a spell based system.

    Namely, music has an extreme emotional effect on those that hear it. The right song can encourage you to fight better, have more courage, or even lose faith in yourself. This is already seen in the class. However, they can do so much more than that, especially when you consider effects out side of battle. Songs can evoke happy memories, dredge up you saddest day, incite deep feelings of hatred, or lull you into a deep slumber.

    Ignore their usefulness in battle, think about if you could rally a gathering, calm a mob, woo a maiden, or remind a rabble of a cause.

    Just some small aspects of music that seemed to be, as of yet, untouched.

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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KaelesFree View Post
    First off, I would like to say, this is an amazing class. I have never run a bard, never seen a bard in action, never even thought of a bard, but this class makes me want to do one immediately.

    I do however have some suggestions, mostly born out of playing music and thinking of ways it could apply in a spell based system.

    Namely, music has an extreme emotional effect on those that hear it. The right song can encourage you to fight better, have more courage, or even lose faith in yourself. This is already seen in the class. However, they can do so much more than that, especially when you consider effects out side of battle. Songs can evoke happy memories, dredge up you saddest day, incite deep feelings of hatred, or lull you into a deep slumber.

    Ignore their usefulness in battle, think about if you could rally a gathering, calm a mob, woo a maiden, or remind a rabble of a cause.

    Just some small aspects of music that seemed to be, as of yet, untouched.
    Because you haven't read the bard class, I'll go ahead and let you know: Wooing, Inspiring and Rallying are all part of the fascinate and suggestion abilities, which I left in the class. Wizards was apparently wise enough to realize that inspiration is the primary ability of the bard, so they did something right. And the thing they did right, I didn't change.

    As for the calming thing, very well. I'll update right now and add a calm emotions effect.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KaelesFree View Post
    I have never run a bard, never seen a bard in action, never even thought of [playing] a bard, but this class makes me want to
    ^ I have to agree with this.

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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    ^ I have to agree with this.
    Well thank you! I hope you enjoy your playing of bards then. For me, a supporter/debuff character in the party is vital, but being restricted to spellcasters is a bit off, especially when most casters will forsake it in favor of rending the earth, etc.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    I'm going to ask my DM if I can use this for my backup character (in all fairness, there is a fairly good chance I will die in the campaign at the moment).

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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    I'm going to ask my DM if I can use this for my backup character (in all fairness, there is a fairly good chance I will die in the campaign at the moment).
    Thank you very much! But please, tell me what you like about this character.
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Thank you very much! But please, tell me what you like about this character.
    I alwasy liked the concept of Bards but hated that I can't really "build" them. Now your fix doesn't change that much but it makes up for it by giving me acutal choices to make every round. Which is awesome so I don't have to do anything to "build" him but I can still focus on defensive abilities or offensive abilities or whatever and its all self contained in the class. I can focus my feats and equipment other things. Haven't got that far yet but it will probably more for RP reasons than for crunchy reasons.

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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    I alwasy liked the concept of Bards but hated that I can't really "build" them. Now your fix doesn't change that much but it makes up for it by giving me acutal choices to make every round. Which is awesome so I don't have to do anything to "build" him but I can still focus on defensive abilities or offensive abilities or whatever and its all self contained in the class. I can focus my feats and equipment other things. Haven't got that far yet but it will probably more for RP reasons than for crunchy reasons.
    Well, it's important to note that you're giving up spellcasting so that kind of removes most of a bard's feat choices...
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    Default Re: 3.5 The Conductor Bard (Now with more songs!)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Well, it's important to note that you're giving up spellcasting so that kind of removes most of a bard's feat choices...
    I'm going to let you in on a little secret, I don't like the idea of spell casters having limited number of spells per day. Just in general. Now I realize that your bard still has limited uses of music per day, and I know WHY they are limited, but that doesn't mean I don't like it. The main difference between limited spells per day and limited music per day, is that music can last longer due to concentration and stuff like that.

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