Mind affecting fix[3.5]

[The Underlord]

I was thinking. Since a lot of monsters are immune to mind affecting, enchanter are more or less irrelevant at higher levels. So I propose a change to the way immunity works

Creatures with immunity to mind affecting instead have SR equal to their hit die+10. This only applies against effects with the [mind-affecting] tag and even applies if the spell does not usually allow SR. Creatures that already have SR increase it by ten against [mind-affecting] effects. In addition, creatures gain a racial (or insight if the immunity derives from an outside affect such as the mind blank spell) bonus to saves against [mind-affecting] abilitiess shown on the chart below. Non-intelligent creatures remain immune to mind-affecting abilities.

{table=head] CR | Bonus to saves
1-4 | +4
5-9 | +6
10-14| +8
15-19 | +10
20+ | +12 [/table]


So too much? too little? I am open to suggestion on changing the numbers involved and am not sure of the formating that should be used.

[erikun]

The roll to overcome SR is d20 + caster level. Assuming HD roughly equal to CR, the enchanter would almost never fail... except in the case of something like zombies, where a CR 20 zombie would have around 80HD.

Most mindless things tend to have rather mediocre saves, so perhaps a -5 to -10 DC penality (or +5 to +10 saves) against them would work. I suppose you could also throw on SR, although make it a lot more reasonable (10+CR average) or a bit higher, if you still don't want them affected much.

[NeoSeraphi]

I could see this working, but only against creatures who are immune to mind-affecting abilities, not actually mindless creatures. If a creature is mindless, it shouldn't be able to be dominated, period. Allowing enchantment spells to work on creatures without an Intelligence score would be another example of us leaving behind reason and saying "It's magic, don't question it" which has led to the majority of balance problems in the game already.

As for intelligent creatures immune to mind-affecting, such as vampires, you could treat them as instead having a racial bonus to their saving throws against such effects, something like a +4-+8 should work nicely. Or you could give them SR, certainly. I'd suggest an SR equal to 12+CR, or 12+HD, whichever you like.

[The Underlord]

I could see this working, but only against creatures who are immune to mind-affecting abilities, not actually mindless creatures. If a creature is mindless, it shouldn't be able to be dominated, period. Allowing enchantment spells to work on creatures without an Intelligence score would be another example of us leaving behind reason and saying "It's magic, don't question it" which has led to the majority of balance problems in the game already.

I meant to put that in, but was in a hurry. Thanks for pointing that out

As for intelligent creatures immune to mind-affecting, such as vampires, you could treat them as instead having a racial bonus to their saving throws against such effects, something like a +4-+8 should work nicely. Or you could give them SR, certainly. I'd suggest an SR equal to 12+CR, or 12+HD, whichever you like.

Goeing over it, I agree that the the the SR needs to increase. I'll probably add a bonus to saves based off CR

edit: done