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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Simon would first make contact with Rachel, and see what information she could give him regarding demonic prescences in the city. He would also make an effort to make contact with Micheal under a flag of truce, and establish borders in Sigil. And, knowing that Ezikeal is here, Simon would continue to search for information on that creeper.
    ATTENTION ANYONE WHO I'M PLAYING WITH:
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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    I'm going to start ending the scene unless anyone else has anything more they're intending to say?

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    I'm good with wrapping the scene up here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Snark View Post
    I must not argue on the Internet.
    Internet argument is the mind-killer.
    It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
    I will face my annoyance.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
    Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ifni View Post
    I'm good with wrapping the scene up here.
    Aye, me too.
    No PbP posting during the Easter weekend (Fri-Mon)
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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Good to go. I'm assuming we're not heading off after the Cyric-worshippers right away. After a couple major battles, Godot would appreciate a chance to recharge.
    Currently climbing out of a heckofa two weeks at work/RL. Now working to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Late's better than never. Let'sa go.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2011-10-02 at 05:04 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Umbriel wants to talk to the other PCs a bit after Lycanthe leaves - she wants to share the information on how to get to and open the portal to Caspar, to clarify how we're going to deal with Kalinor so everyone's on the same page, and to point out that it's entirely possible that Kalinor never had the Well of Souls and he just told us it was stolen to get us to help

    But yeah, we don't have a good lead on the Cyric-worshippers right now, so I think our next step is to report back to Kalinor in any case. Umbriel has been conserving her spells (as in, she hasn't cast anything from her top three levels), so doesn't really need recharge time, but certainly wouldn't object to it
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Snark View Post
    I must not argue on the Internet.
    Internet argument is the mind-killer.
    It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
    I will face my annoyance.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
    Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    From a purely practical point of view, it's now getting on for 1am local time, so some sleep would probably be useful. Certainly it would difficult to talk to anyone else before the morning, although you are of course welcome to try.

  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Sthrer would like to find books about chaos and if possible the Far Realms--if only to laugh at what they get wrong. She might like a hat of disguise or the like if she has enough money.
    Cthulhu fhtagn R'lyeh!
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  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    I have been extremely busy this last week.

    Are we going to post our little one-off's soon to move forward, then? If so, I need to compile a shopping list.

    Togo, will you let us just write out the shopkeeper's and such all on our own?
    Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.


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  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Let me know when you've done talking and I'll advance to the next morning. Unless you particularly want to find and wake Kalinor tonight, or do anything before morning.
    Last edited by Togo; 2011-10-06 at 03:04 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    I'm good to advance. Once they're back in the compound, Godot's first priority (unless Kalinor is up) is to alert our feline colleague about what we've learned, and then find a very, very secure room in which to store her homicidal puppet. Everything else can wait until morning.
    Currently climbing out of a heckofa two weeks at work/RL. Now working to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

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  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Good to advance, happy with waiting until morning.

    Btw Toliudar, Umbriel is quickly growing to respect Godot, even aside from the practical issue here that she's clearly the right PC to take the lead in bluff / sense motive games She may be a member of a race that embodies Chaos (are chaos gnomes actually [Chaos] subtype?), but she seems rational and level-headed. And she has vows that she takes seriously, in at least one aspect of her life, which suggests that the concept of honor is not wholly foreign to her.

    Sthrer, on the other hand, is quite a bit closer to Umbriel's stereotype of anyone with [Chaotic] in their alignment line
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Snark View Post
    I must not argue on the Internet.
    Internet argument is the mind-killer.
    It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
    I will face my annoyance.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
    Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    The respect is mutual. Umbriel seems a lot less morbid and self-absorbed than most Jasites. And since Godot makes her living with words, she'd likely enjoy chatting with someone who is virtually made of them.

    Offhand, I'm trying to think of any non-outsiders that actually get the alignment subtypes.
    Currently climbing out of a heckofa two weeks at work/RL. Now working to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

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  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    No offense, but the whole Chaos/Law talk, when used (in character) other than referring to actual planar properties (like Slaad, Modron, etc.), sounds uncomfortably meta. To me, at least.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2011-10-07 at 04:10 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    I've been much more explicit about the Law/Chaos stuff than usual, because of the statements in the original recruiting thread about how alignment works in this cosmology:

    "Note that alignment is literally which outer planes your character is aligned to. Your actions determine this. No one cares what your reasons are. If you leave burning buildings in your wake wherever you go, you're chaotic, and your motives and thoughts on the matter are irrelevant.

    Secondly, while there are no mechanics penalties for changing alignment, people you meet will care quite a lot, particularly natives of the outer planes. There are certain streets that lawful people shouldn't walk down, some institutions that won't cater to chaotics, and so on. Hell isn't an abstract concept, it's a superpower operating on neutral territory, and its representatives drink in that tavern over there."

    Thus, Umbriel sees this as a political discussion, and she's spent her entire life working on behalf of one particular great power, her beliefs and loyalties on this front are pretty well ingrained.

    If you replace "Chaotic" with "Communist" everywhere and imagine Umbriel as a fairly conservative American hawk during the Cold War (or even after the Cold War, "Communist" still seems to be almost entirely pejorative in the US today), you should have a reasonable idea of her knee-jerk distaste to ideas she associates with Chaos, and working with anyone who's chosen to align themselves with Chaos (but she is practical, and can work with people who don't share her politics, or even people who are explicitly working for an opposing faction - she just won't trust them and will make contingency plans on the assumption that they're going to betray her). She doesn't actually have Detect Chaos, but she knows that Korolis was a very Chaotic deity, she has enough Knowledge skills to identify Godot as a Chaos Gnome, and Sthrer has made her philosophy very clear
    Last edited by Ifni; 2011-10-07 at 10:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Snark View Post
    I must not argue on the Internet.
    Internet argument is the mind-killer.
    It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
    I will face my annoyance.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
    Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Fair enough. However, this is also Sigil, where even devils and guardinals occasionally have the opportunity to drink together and to talk politics. It seems perfect that all of us seem to be moving towards a more nuanced, cosmopolitan world view as we spend time here.
    Currently climbing out of a heckofa two weeks at work/RL. Now working to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

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  18. - Top - End - #498
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    @Ifni: Then again, as the actual thoughts aren't part of one's alignment, I'd daresay that a person shouldn't know his/her alignment, except outsiders, of course, who know which alignment their homeplane belongs to.

    Still, you seem to be right in your take on the cosmology, so I guess this is just my utter hate on the alignment system talking and nothing else.
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  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    @Ifni: Then again, as the actual thoughts aren't part of one's alignment, I'd daresay that a person shouldn't know his/her alignment, except outsiders, of course, who know which alignment their homeplane belongs to.
    For ordinary people I'd agree with you, many of them probably don't know. For adventurers, it's actually important in a practical sense, because there are spells which have alignment-dependent effects: if Umbriel IDs an incoming Dictum or Chaos Hammer, she needs to know how it's going to affect her. The spells to test alignment are low-level and cheap, so she probably arranges for a confidential checkup every year or so (also to guard against corruption; she likes her church's ideals and doesn't want to accidentally slide away from them). Of course, there might also be plenty of adventurers who don't do this - but Umbriel has excellent Spellcraft and a bunch of reactive defenses, and is rather big on self-knowledge, so it makes sense for her. (Also, she actually was born and grew up in an Illumian enclave on one of the outer planes; she's not an outsider, but she has a very definite and long-lasting allegiance to a certain Outer Planes power and does not want to jeopardize that.)

    She's aware in theory that personal philosophy != planar allegiance != reliable guide to future actions, but she feels that in practice, the three track each other fairly closely. This is partly because she has spent a lot of time working with (or against) Always [Alignment] outsiders, and they tend to be a bit more absolute than mortals. As Toliudar said, Sigil is a good place for her to become a bit more open-minded here

    I suppose I should also add the disclaimer here that Umbriel's opinions do not reflect my own; by far my most commonly played alignment is Chaotic Good Similarly, I like Sthrer, she's a cool character - it's just Umbriel who has her tagged as "wildly unpredictable and thus untrustworthy"

    Still, you seem to be right in your take on the cosmology, so I guess this is just my utter hate on the alignment system talking and nothing else.
    I actually quite like this particular way of thinking about alignment, where it's a very concrete allegiance (which can be entirely involuntary), rather than a coarse-grained categorization of the PCs' personal ethical frameworks.

    The way I'm thinking of it, the actions of powerful beings grant them a metaphysical attunement to one of the outer planes, whether they want it or not, and that link can be discerned and exploited by appropriate magic. Being identifiably Good has very little to do with whether you're fundamentally a nice person and everything to do with how you behave and the amount and nature of the power your actions invoke; clerics/outsiders/undead have stronger links just because their power is more directly associated with the aligned planes. And it's a discrete system because the Planes are discrete; it's perfectly possible to not fit well into the "alignment" grid in terms of ideals and philosophy, but your personal planar link WILL snap to whichever one is closest based on your actions.

    (This of course may not be the interpretation Togo intended, it's just my take on it )
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Snark View Post
    I must not argue on the Internet.
    Internet argument is the mind-killer.
    It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
    I will face my annoyance.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
    Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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  20. - Top - End - #500
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    The more physical parts of alignment system (clerics/outsiders/undead, positive and negative energy, etc.) I have no qualms with, but when it comes to actually deciding which action is chaotic and what is Evil, it all falls apart IMHO.

    And as an explanation, I was referring to the alignment system in general when I said I hated it. This interplanar political-ish theme is much more fun than the usual "paladin kills goblin baby, what happens" part of the alignment system, obviously.
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  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    My main difficulty with the alignment system is the rarity with which good outsiders actually act like something other than supercilious douchebags.
    Currently climbing out of a heckofa two weeks at work/RL. Now working to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

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  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Toliudar View Post
    It seems perfect that all of us seem to be moving towards a more nuanced, cosmopolitan world view as we spend time here.
    This is what I'm hoping for Xiulcoatl. Right now he's walking around with a proverbial Lawful Good stick up his draconic backside, if you'll excuse my venacular, and by being forced to mingle with chaotic beings, neutral beings, evil beings, etc ... that he'll grow more flexible, more worldly view.

    That he is by a significant margin the youngest party member, I'm hoping that'll help too. While everyone else is largely seasoned, he isn't.
    Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.


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  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Thanks, Ifni. I'm doing my best :D
    Cthulhu fhtagn R'lyeh!
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  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    sorry I have not posted in the IC thread. I've been so burned out and blah to the world lately.
    Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.


    RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

    RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Yeah, Toliudar, I think I misinterpreted your post . I figured Godot meant that because of the magics/whatever the man endured, he was beyond salvation.
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  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Ok, not gonna lie ... no idea what's going on anymore or how to contribute. I really don't have the energy for this. I want to continue in it ... but I'm not really of much value to the party as an RP'er or a PC.

    I don't know what to do.
    Last edited by Obrysii; 2011-10-09 at 10:28 PM.
    Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.


    RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

    RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Obrysii View Post
    Ok, not gonna lie ... no idea what's going on anymore or how to contribute. I really don't have the energy for this. I want to continue in it ... but I'm not really of much value to the party as an RP'er or a PC.

    I don't know what to do.
    I've been that way for some time now. No worry, I'd say, as things should go back to its usual pace when this incident is wrapped up.
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  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Obrysii, Cespenar, I'm sorry you feel that way Would a recap be helpful? I'd be happy to provide one IC or OOC if you like.

    Obrysii, on "value as a PC": if you mean mechanical contributions in combat, I wouldn't stress about it, I certainly don't feel that you're letting the party down. If you would like Androse to be a more effective combat machine, I would be more than happy to provide buffs to assist with that (dragons are fun to buff) If you would prefer that he stay in human form and act as a support character, that's fine too - although perhaps we can find better magic items for him than basic wands, in Sigil's markets

    "Value as an RP'er": well, most of us did only just find out Androse's big secret, we just haven't really had time to talk to him yet about it. Similar to Cespenar's comment, hopefully that will improve once the current incident is over. Even Umbriel (who is not the most sociable of people) would probably like to have a chat with him, since she can identify him as a very young gold dragon, and she's fairly friendly toward his species
    Last edited by Ifni; 2011-10-10 at 02:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Snark View Post
    I must not argue on the Internet.
    Internet argument is the mind-killer.
    It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
    I will face my annoyance.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
    Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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  29. - Top - End - #509
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ifni View Post
    The way I'm thinking of it, the actions of powerful beings grant them a metaphysical attunement to one of the outer planes, whether they want it or not, and that link can be discerned and exploited by appropriate magic. Being identifiably Good has very little to do with whether you're fundamentally a nice person and everything to do with how you behave and the amount and nature of the power your actions invoke; clerics/outsiders/undead have stronger links just because their power is more directly associated with the aligned planes. And it's a discrete system because the Planes are discrete; it's perfectly possible to not fit well into the "alignment" grid in terms of ideals and philosophy, but your personal planar link WILL snap to whichever one is closest based on your actions.

    (This of course may not be the interpretation Togo intended, it's just my take on it )
    No that's pretty much it. You're welcome to hate the alignment system in character, should you wish. That's quite a popular view in Sigil. And yes, you might not know exactly what your own alignment is, just as you don't necessarily know what your own intelligence is. You should have a fair idea though. Aligmnment isn't a fact about you, so much as a fact about how you are judged by cosmic powers. And they're not always fair, or accurate.
    Last edited by Togo; 2011-10-10 at 07:32 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #510
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    Default Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Obrysii View Post
    Ok, not gonna lie ... no idea what's going on anymore or how to contribute. I really don't have the energy for this. I want to continue in it ... but I'm not really of much value to the party as an RP'er or a PC.

    I don't know what to do.
    You seem to do be doing fine from an RP perspective. Someone needs to speak up for not cooperating with all the dodgy people, irrespective of whether that's what you end up doing.

    I'm happy to summarise the plot. More than one person is a bit lost.

    As for mechanics, it's possible I was too harsh when doing your build. Another hit dice or two might help? I suspect you're also underestimating yourself. Power attacking enemies can do huge amounts of damage, but the limit is AC. Your elephant got splatted because its AC was so low - the same attackers would struggle to do the same damage to you. Buff spells and effects would also make a big difference - you're playing one of the better platforms in the game for such.

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