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    Default [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    I adore Slivers. I've seen them done before, but... I'm awkward.

    Slivers are serpentine creatures with large, armoured heads, and a single talon. Although unremarkable alone, they have the unprecedented ability to share unique and powerful abilities with one another. If one is winged, the others will be. If one is oversized, so are the rest. This ability makes them mighty forces when deployed in large numbers. Several beings have employed the swarms as shock troops, both good and evil. On some rare occasions, alliances have been made with well inclined hives.

    Illus. John Avon

    Lesser Sliver (1/1)
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    Size/Type: Small Magical Beast (Sliver)
    Hit Dice: 3d10+6 (22hp)
    Initiative: + 3
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +2 natural, +1 size), touch 13, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-1
    Attack: Claw +5 melee (1d6+1)
    Full Attack: Claw +5 melee (1d6+1)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: None
    Special Qualities: Sliver Traits, Hive Mind, Darkvision (60ft), Low Light Vision
    Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +2
    Abilities: Str 13, Dex 17, Con 14, Int – (2), Wis – (12), Cha – (10)
    Skills: -
    Feats: Agile, Improved Natural Attack
    Environment: Essentially anywhere
    Organization: Solitary, group (6, including 3 weaker slivers, 2 medium, and 1 greater) or hive (Gods help you)
    Challenge Rating: 2 (For a lesser sliver with no Sliver Ability)
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Same as controlling influence (True Neutral (Mindless))
    Advancement: By hit dice

    Sliver Abilities
    Clot Sliver/Crypt Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Clot/Crypt Sliver gain the following Special Quality.
    Life Unending (Su)
    By expending a full round action, the Sliver may cast Raise Dead. They suffer no level loss, but cannot be raised f the target has been dead no more than a number of rounds equal to twice the number of Clot/Crypt Slivers within range. In addition, they remain unconscious for 1d3 rounds. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to the number of Clot/Crypt Slivers within range.
    (High CR-8+?)

    Heart Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Heart Sliver gain a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity. In addition, each Heart Sliver within range grants a +1 stacking racial bonus to initiative.
    (Low CR-2/3?)

    Muscle/Sinew Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Muscle Sliver gain a +2 racial bonus to Strength. In addition, each Muscle Sliver within range grants an additional hit die, including the bonuses to BAB, saving throws, hit points and other derived features.
    (Low CR-3?)

    Plated Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Plated Sliver gain 25% fortification, allowing them a 25% chance of negating the extra effects of a critical hit. In addition, each Plated Sliver within range grants a +1 stacking racial bonus to natural armour.
    (Low CR-3?)

    Quick Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Quick Sliver gain a +20ft racial bonus to all their speeds. In addition, each Plated Sliver within range grants a +1 racial bonus to their Dodge AC.
    (Low CR-3?)

    Quilled Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Quilled Sliver gain the following Special Attack:
    Quills
    Function as a natural thrown weapon, dealing 1d6+Str piercing damage, with a range equal to 5ft/HD.
    In addition, whenever someone grapples or is grappled by a sliver, they take 1d3 damage for each Quilled Sliver within range.
    (Low CR-3/4?)

    Sidewinder Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Sidewinder Sliver gain a +2 racial dodge bonus to AC. In addition, each Sidewinder Sliver within range grants a +1 stacking racial bonus to attack rolls.
    (Low CR-2/3?)

    Talon Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Talon Sliver gain an addition five foot of natural reach. In addition, each Talon Sliver within range grants a +2 stacking racial bonus to damage rolls with natural weapons.
    (Medium CR-4?)

    Winged Sliver: All Slivers that are within range of at least one Winged Sliver at the beginning of their movement gain the ability to fly with a speed of 30ft, at clumsy manoeuvrability. If they leave range, they retain this ability for one round.
    In addition, each Winged Sliver within range grants a +10 stacking racial bonus to their flight speed, and increases their manoeuvrability by one step.
    (Medium/High CR-5?)

    Beacon Sliver: Beacon Slivers are extensions of a given Master’s will. They do not have their own Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma scores, and die if their Dominator is slain. However, they are always considered to be within range of their Dominator’s Hive Mind range, and they extend this range in a 20ft/HD radius. Finally, any ability granted to a Beacon Sliver by the Sliver subtype is also granted to their Dominator.
    (Irrelevant and Unjudgeable CR. Guess a 2.)


    Sliver (2/2)
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    Size/Type: Small Magical Beast (Sliver)
    Hit Dice: 6d10+18 (51hp)
    Initiative: +4
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 19 (+4 Dex, +4 natural, +1 size), touch 15, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+2
    Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+2)
    Full Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+2)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: None
    Special Qualities: Sliver Traits, Hive Mind, Darkvision (60ft), Low Light Vision
    Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +3
    Abilities: Str 15, Dex 18, Con 16, Int – (2), Wis – (12), Cha – (10)
    Skills: -
    Feats: Agile, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Natural Armour
    Environment: Essentially anywhere
    Organization: Solitary, group (6, including 3 weaker slivers, 2 medium, and 1 greater) or hive (Gods help you)
    Challenge Rating: 6
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Same as controlling influence (True Neutral (Mindless))
    Advancement: By hit dice

    Examples
    Acidic Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Acidic Sliver gain the following special attack and quality.
    Acidic Blood (Ex)
    Whenever this sliver takes melee damage, its attacker suffers damage equal to its Con Modifier multiplied by the number of Acidic Slivers in range.
    Acidic Burst (Ex)
    This ability requires the sliver using it to immediately die, going down to -10hp and being disintegrated to ash. They may affect a single target within charge range and sight with a number of d4s of Acid damage equal to the Sliver's HD. They are entitled to a reflex save. The save DC is increased by the number of Acidic Slivers in range after the first.

    Armour Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Armour Sliver gain a +2 bonus to natural armour. In addition, they may spend a full round action to increase their natural armour by one. This stacks up to a maximum bonus of their HD, and each one lasts for a number of rounds equal to their con modifier multiplied by the number of Armour Slivers within range.

    Barbed Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Armour Sliver gain a +2 bonus to Strength. In addition, they may spend a full round action to give themselves a +2 bonus on damage rolls. This stacks up to a maximum bonus of their HD, and each one lasts for a number of rounds equal to their con modifier multiplied by the number of Armour Slivers within range.

    Basal Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Basal Sliver gain the following special ability.
    Manaform (Su)
    This ability requires the sliver using it to immediately die, going down to -10hp and being disintegrated to ash. It has one of the following effects.
    Either any one being within the hive mind capable of casting spells with metamagic feats may reduce the level adjustment of one metamagic feat within the next round by the number of Basal Slivers within range of the sacrificed Sliver.
    Or, any one Sliver within the Hive Mind may use any ability they possess which requires them to spend a full round action as if it used a free action. (This is intended to work with Armour, Barbed and similar Slivers.)

    Blade Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Blade Sliver gain a second claw. They may use this to make a second attack in a full attack, with the same rules and statistics. In addition, each Blade Sliver within range adds one to the critical threat range of their claws. This is applied after effects such as Keen or Improved Critical.
    (CR 8/9)

    Bonesplitter Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Bonesplitter Sliver deal additional damage with each claw attack equal to the base damage for their claw. In addition, they treat them as if a two handed weapon wielded in two hands, and thus multiply their strength modifier by 1.5. (So, a claw normally dealing 1d6+2 damage instead deals 2d6+3)
    In addition, they gain a variant of the Wounding quality. Whenever they make a successful hit, they also do constitution damage equal to the number of Bonesplitter Slivers in range.
    (CR 9/10)

    Cautery Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Cautery Sliver gain the following Special Attacks.
    Flame Burst (Su)
    This ability requires the sliver using it to immediately die, going down to -10hp and being disintegrated to ash. All non-sliver creatures within 10ft for each Cautery Sliver within range suffer d3 fire damage for each HD the sacrificial Sliver had.
    Life Burst (Su)
    This ability requires the sliver using it to immediately die, going down to -10hp and being disintegrated to ash. All sliver creatures within 10ft for each Cautery Sliver within range are healed for d3 damage for each HD the sacrifical Sliver had.

    Might Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Might Sliver are increased in size by one size category. They gain a +4 racial bonus to Strength and Constitution, and suffer the same bonuses and penalties as any other creature of that size. In addition, each Might Sliver in range grants two additional hit dice, including the bonuses to BAB, saving throws, hit points and other derived features.

    Necrotic Sliver: All Slivers within range have the following Special Attack.
    Necrotic Ending (Sp)
    This ability requires the sliver using it to immediately die, going down to -10hp and being disintegrated to ash. They may affect a single target within 10ft/hd as if by a Finger of Death Spell, with caster level equal to their HD. The DC is increased by the number of Necrotic Slivers in range after the first.

    Psionic Sliver: All Slivers within range have the following Special Attack.
    Psionic Blast (Su)
    This ability functions as the psionic power Mind Thrust, as if manifested by a psion using a number of power points equal to the user’s HD. It calculates save DCs using Charisma.
    However, the user also deals a number of points of damage to himself equal to five times his HD.

    Ward Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Ward Sliver gain Spell Resistance equal to 11 plus their HD. In addition, each Ward Sliver within range grants resistance 15 to fire, electricity, cold, or acid. If the same energy type is increased more than once, it increased to Immunity.

    Watcher Sliver: All Slivers within range of at least one Watcher Sliver gain ranks in spot equal to their HD, and the Alertness feat. In addition, they gain a +2 insight bonus to AC for each Watcher Sliver within range. This bonus is lost if the Sliver is denied its Dex bonus to AC.
    (CR 7/8)


    Greater Sliver (3/3)
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    Size/Type: Medium Magical Beast (Sliver)
    Hit Dice: 9d10+39 (88hp)
    Initiative: + 3
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+9
    Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d8+3)
    Full Attack: Claw +12 melee (1d8+3)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: None
    Special Qualities: Sliver Traits, Hive Mind, Darkvision (60ft), Low Light Vision
    Saves: Fort +10, Ref +10, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 17, Dex 19, Con 18, Int – (2), Wis – (12), Cha – (10)
    Skills:
    Feats: Agile, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Natural Armour, Toughness
    Environment: Essentially anywhere
    Organization: Solitary, group (6, including 3 weaker slivers, 2 medium, and 1 greater) or hive (Gods help you)
    Challenge Rating: 8
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Same as controlling influence (True Neutral (Mindless))
    Advancement: By hit dice

    Examples
    Brood Sliver
    A sliver within range of at least one Brood Sliver gains the following Special Quality
    Brood (Ex)
    A number of times per day equal to the number of Brood Slivers within range, this Sliver may spend a full round action to form a single Lesser Sliver with no special Sliver ability. However, these slivers are incapable of using the Brood ability until they have lived for an entire day.

    Essence Sliver
    All Slivers within range of at least one Essence Sliver gain the following special quality.
    Lifesteal
    Whenever you deal hit point damage, you and the being Dominating you, if any, regain hitpoints equal to a quarter of the damage dealt for each Essence Sliver within range.


    Other Slivers (Battering Sliver, Plague Sliver)
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    Battering Sliver
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    Size/Type: Large Magical Beast (Sliver)
    Hit Dice: 12d10+54 (120hp)
    Initiative: + 3
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 20 (+4 Dex, +6 natural, -1 size), touch 13, flat-footed 15
    Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+16
    Attack: Claw +17 melee (1d10+6)
    Full Attack: Claw +17 melee (1d10+6)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
    Special Attacks: Trample
    Special Qualities: Sliver Traits, Hive Mind, Darkvision (60ft), Low Light Vision, Battering Sliver
    Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +5
    Abilities: Str 22, Dex 19, Con 18, Int – (2), Wis – (12), Cha – (10)
    Skills:
    Feats: Agile, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Natural Armour, Toughnessx2, (Improved Overrun)
    Environment: Essentially anywhere
    Organization: Solitary, group (6, including 3 weaker slivers, 2 medium, and 1 greater) or hive (Gods help you)
    Challenge Rating: 10
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Same as controlling influence (True Neutral (Mindless))
    Advancement: By hit dice

    Battering Sliver
    All Slivers within range of at least one Battering Sliver gain the Improved Overrun feat. In addition, whenever they successfully Overrun someone, they may deal them 1d3+Str bludgeoning damage for each Battering Sliver within range. A successful fortitude save negates this damage.


    Master Sliver (Queen or Overlord)
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    Size/Type: Huge Magical Beast (Sliver)
    Hit Dice: 21d10+117 (232hp)
    Initiative: + 6
    Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 30 ft.
    Armor Class: 19 (+6 Dex, +5 natural, -2 size), touch 14, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +19/+29
    Attack: Claw +24 melee (2d6+7)
    Full Attack: Claw +24 melee (2d6+7)
    Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
    Special Attacks: Dominate Sliver, Dominate Monster or Broodmistress
    Special Qualities: Sliver Traits, Hive Mind (Dominator), Darkvision (60ft), Low Light Vision, Telepathy
    Saves: Fort +17, Ref +18, Will +14
    Abilities: Str 24, Dex 23, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 20, Cha 20
    Skills: Swim +18, Concentration +18, Survival +18, Spot +18, Listen +18, Knowledge (All) +18
    Feats: Agile, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Natural Armour, Toughnessx4, Iron Will, Ability Focus (Dominate Sliver)
    Environment: Essentially anywhere
    Organization: Solitary plus hive (Beg for mercy)
    Challenge Rating: 18
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Varies. Often Neutral (True Neutral (Mindless))
    Advancement: By hit dice

    Traits
    It is unheard of for there to be more than one Sliver of this power in a single hive. They are huge, and can control other slivers with their force of will.

    There are two known varieties of this form of Sliver. The Sliver Queen, and the Sliver Overlord. Both have the Dominate Sliver ability, but the Sliver Queen has Broodmistress in addition, while the Overlord has the Dominate Monster ability.

    Dominate Sliver (Su): A Master Sliver can cast Dominate Sliver as a spell like ability at will. This functions as the spell Dominate Monster, but only affects creatures with the Sliver subtype. If they fail their save, they are automatically controlled by the Master Sliver. Normal slivers are considered controlled by the Hive Mind (Dominator) trait when the duration ends, but anything other than a natural sliver without the Dominator trait is entitled to the normal contested ability-check.

    Telepathy (Ex): Slivers cannot communicate verbally, but they understand most languages. Master Slivers, and any being they control with their Dominator trait, can communicate with telepathy up to a range of 5ft/HD. However, this is language dependant. Most Master Slivers only speak their own 'language', named Serpentine by some scholars, but some make it a rule to learn others.

    Dominate Monster (Su), Sliver Overlord only: A Sliver Overlord can cast Dominate Monster as a spell like ability a number of times per day equal to his HD.

    Broodmistress (Ex), Sliver Queen only: A Sliver Queen can form a number of lesser Slivers with no special Sliver ability. In a day, the maximum number of lesser slivers formed is equal to the Queen’s HD, and it takes a full round action to form any number of them.


    Sliver Traits (Hive Mind, Dominator, Sliver Subtype)
    Spoiler
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    Hive Mind
    In small numbers, Slivers are merely animals, with the instinct to hunt, to sleep, and to breed, and nothing more. Their natural Intelligence is two. However, more powerful slivers exist that are massively intelligent, and they exert absolute control over lesser slivers. (These Slivers possess the Hive Mind (Dominator) trait. A sliver summoned into being is considered controlled by its summoner)

    A sliver under the control of another being uses that being’s skills, feats, and mental ability scores, unless its own are higher/better.
    Being part of a Sliver Hive Mind is said to be 'strange', rather than any more specific description. The self is not entirely subsumed, with quirks and personality still existing, but being bound within perfect obedience, and absorbed into a greater whole, the coalition of every mind within it.

    Hive Mind (Dominator)
    A being with this trait can control any being with the sliver subtype within a mile/2HD.

    Taking control of another sliver is a simplistic act normally, but can become difficult when two forces try to simultaneously. This art can become a form of battle, and is outlined below.
    Spoiler
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    Taking control of another Sliver is a swift or move action. It triggers a contested Charisma roll off between the two controlling influences An uncontrolled Sliver with the Hive Mind trait, but not the Hive Mind (Dominator) trait suffers a -2 penalty on this roll. Trying to gain control of a Dominator grants that Dominator a +2 bonus to their roll.

    However, a Dominator can invest more of their control into slivers to keep them under their influence. They have a number of floating points equal to a third of their HD, and can spread them among as few or as many slivers as they desire, including themselves. If anyone tries to use the Dominator trait to gain control of a sliver with these points, that sliver or its controller gains a bonus on the roll-off equal to the invested points.

    By this system, imagine a lone Sliver Overlord trying to capture a Sliver Queen's hive, consisting of a Ward Sliver, a Might Sliver, an Essence Sliver and a Heart Sliver, as well as the Queen herself. The Queen has 18HD, and thus six points to invest. She is fearful for her safety, and thus invests two in herself, and two in the Ward Sliver, and one each to the Might and Essence Slivers. The Heart Sliver is considered unimportant in the great scheme of things.

    The Sliver Overlord spends one round, using his swift, move and standard actions to sieze control of the Ward Sliver, the Essence Sliver and the Queen herself.
    He rolls
    1d20+His Charisma against 1d20+Queen's Charisma+1 to control the Essence Sliver.
    1d20+His Charisma against 1d20+Queen's Charisma+2 to control the Ward Sliver.
    1d20+His Charisma against 1d20+Queen's Charisma+4 to control the Queen.


    Sliver Subtype
    Slivers have the unique ability to share their powers. While some slivers are ‘plain’ members of their species, others have unique powers, abilities or mutations that they share with those around them.

    These abilities are (Ex) for the Sliver that possesses them. However, they are shared with all slivers within 5ft/hd, as well as any sliver that has control over them. This sharing is a (Su) ability.


    Feats, ACFs, Spells, And Other Goodies
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    Feats
    Of the Hive
    Prerequisites: None
    Benefit: When in a form with the Sliver Subtype, they may resist the domination of Dominators as if they had that trait themself.
    Normal: If you assume the form of a Sliver, you are as easily controlled as they are.

    Lead the Hive
    Prerequisites: Sliver Subtype OR Of the Hive, as well as Int 10
    Benefit: As long as you have the Sliver Subtype, you have the Hive Mind (Dominator) Trait.
    Normal: You cannot control other Slivers with your sheer force of mind.

    Join the Hive
    Prerequisites: Lead the Hive, ability to assume a form with the Sliver Subtype.
    Benefit: You gain the Sliver Subtype in your natural form, and may always choose to keep it when shapeshifting.
    Normal: You're not always a sliver.

    Choir of Minds
    Prerequisites: Ability to assume a form with the Sliver Subtype.
    Benefit: Like the slivers, you can sense the mind of those around you. This requires eye contact, and is not subtle enough to provide communication, but you can sense the strongest of surface emotions, or differentiate an old friend from another. It can also tell apart vastly different races-it gives the type and subtypes after a full round action spent concentrating on any one given target.
    Normal: You are not a telepath. Not even an ickle bit.

    Song of the Spirit
    Prerequisites: Choir of Minds
    Benefit: You gain telepathy, as a Sliver Master.
    Normal: You're not a telepath, except an ickle bit.

    Broodmaster
    Prerequisites: Hive Mind (Dominator) Trait, Leadership
    Benefit: You may attract or acquire Slivers as followers and/or cohorts.

    ACFs
    Druid of the Hive
    Prerequisites: About to take a level in a class that grants Wild Shape.
    Loss: You do not gain Wild Shape, or any derivatives of it. You gain Hive Shape, which is identical, but only allows you to take the forms of Slivers. Use their Challenge Rating rather than their hit die to determine if you qualify to take their form. When using Hive Shape, you DO gain the Sliver Subtype, as well as the specific sharable Sliver ability of the chosen type.


    Slivers As Animal Companions, Summons, Etcetera
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    Slivers are valid animal companions. However, their varying and hard to pin down power levels render them hard to judge. Therefore, subtract their approximate CR from your effective Druid level.

    Slivers who function as Animal Companions are magically linked to their partner. They gain a bonus on checks to resist being controlled equal to your level in the class that grants them, and they count as being Dominated by you for these checks. (Allowing you to use your Charisma if it surpasses theirs)

    Slivers can be added to the Summon Nature's Ally spells. An approximate way of calculating which spell to add them to would be to halve their CR, making most Lesser Slivers a Summon Nature's Ally I or II and making Master Slivers IX.

    Like Animal Companions, summoned slivers are resistant to control, but to a lesser extent. They do not suffer the -2 penalty on rolls to resist control for being a lone sliver.

    Shapeshifting into a Sliver grants the Sliver subtype, and the specific sharable Sliver ability, if it has one.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-07-19 at 04:32 PM.
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    (Extra post just in case)

    Feel free to post, critique, offer advice, and tell me just how far out my CRs are!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Haven't read everything yet, but so far I'd mention this. A Dominator shouldn't automatically control all slivers in range. Instead it should have the ability to claim all unclaimed slivers in range as an action, an control claimed slivers. The exception being if the sliver is already claimed by another Dominator, in which case it must claim it individually (taking an action), and it is then a contest of wills to control it would be had.
    Possibly also allow the Dominator to prep defence for some number of slivers each round, granting it a bonus to maintain control over those ones if another Dominator tries to take it (with prepping the same one multiple times stacking, and possibly allowing it to forgo prepping slivers to gain a bonus on taking one, albeit a smaller one).
    Mind that whole part would likely be rather in games since players aren't likely to play a Dominator, but if they did.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    I think that's sorta overcomplicating it. Slivers oughta be controlled like extensions of your own body. They don't (shouldn't) have their own minds. If a dominator is near, they are part of them and that's that.

    But thanks anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Might and Muscle sliver bonuses should be untyped, Lixie. Or What's the point?!

    Where's Crystalline Sliver? Hibernation Sliver? How am I supposed to run Counter Slivers?

    I likes it otherwise.

    CR don't work with slivers anyway, don't worry too much 'bout that.
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    Might and Muscle sliver bonuses should be untyped, Lixie. Or What's the point?!

    Where's Crystalline Sliver? Hibernation Sliver? How am I supposed to run Counter Slivers?

    I likes it otherwise.

    CR don't work with slivers anyway, don't worry too much 'bout that.
    If you check, you'll see that every sliver grants one ability that doesn't stack, and one that does. The Str boost is the former, the bonus HD the latter.

    Haven't made them yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think that's sorta overcomplicating it. Slivers oughta be controlled like extensions of your own body. They don't (shouldn't) have their own minds. If a dominator is near, they are part of them and that's that.

    But thanks anyway.
    Actually, slivers do have minds of their own. This is how they can survive when their are no leaders, and what eventually caused the sliver legion to form (from what I recall).
    As for the more complicated part, that only comes into play when there are two or more dominators, as it should be harder to gain control of one already being controlled. If there is only one dominator, it works the same way as what you have already.
    My proposed method allows for things like rival hives, or various factions of slivers (for which there is precedence in Magic). The requirement that already controlled slivers must be taken control of individually is based on the Sliver Overlord, which can take control of one sliver at a time.

    The part about preparing is mainly allow fights between dominators to not just become "who has better charisma. They steal all the other slivers one at a time starting with the best. They win. It allows the dominators to either protect their stronger slivers, or forgo the protection to better steal the other slivers. This causes more strategy in the portion of controlling slivers (such as aiming for their slightly weaker slivers that are more likely to be less protected).

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Actually, slivers do have minds of their own. This is how they can survive when their are no leaders, and what eventually caused the sliver legion to form (from what I recall).
    As for the more complicated part, that only comes into play when there are two or more dominators, as it should be harder to gain control of one already being controlled. If there is only one dominator, it works the same way as what you have already.
    My proposed method allows for things like rival hives, or various factions of slivers (for which there is precedence in Magic). The requirement that already controlled slivers must be taken control of individually is based on the Sliver Overlord, which can take control of one sliver at a time.

    The part about preparing is mainly allow fights between dominators to not just become "who has better charisma. They steal all the other slivers one at a time starting with the best. They win. It allows the dominators to either protect their stronger slivers, or forgo the protection to better steal the other slivers. This causes more strategy in the portion of controlling slivers (such as aiming for their slightly weaker slivers that are more likely to be less protected).

    Owrtho
    Only animalistic minds though. And I'll write rules for a Sliver Swarm at some point for the Legion.

    I dunno. It just sounds hugely complex, and not very hive-mind-y.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Only animalistic minds though. And I'll write rules for a Sliver Swarm at some point for the Legion.

    I dunno. It just sounds hugely complex, and not very hive-mind-y.
    Well, on the preparation part isn't really required, as I mentioned. It just allows more strategy on part of the dominators. The key part is that dominators don't automatically gain control of those already under the control of another dominator, but must exert effort to do so (even if it is minor). With your current method a battle between hives is either far to easy, or far to complex. The former being if all slivers are controlled by a single roll, then the dominator who wins control of the others hive basically auto wins by having all the slivers attack the other dominator for the turn. To complex if each sliver is rolled for individually, as this would cause the control of every sliver to possibly change each turn (possibly more than once depending on how the taking control of it done), and become quite difficult to keep track of. Either way it isn't very fun.
    With a dominator having to actively try to steal other slivers, it means you only need to worry about said stealing of troops a few times a turn and only for the selected slivers.

    As for the preparation, it would allow more strategy for dominators when fighting each other. It also isn't all that complex in execution. For an example (all numbers chosen off hand and may need adjustment in actual execution), lets say a dominator can protect charisma mod slivers each round, and as a standard action attempt to steal 1/2 charisma mod slivers from another dominator (rounded down min 1). Protecting a sliver gives that dominator a +2 on saves to prevent another dominator from gaining control of it for the round, and give the sliver +2 on will saves vs charm, suggestion, dominate monster, etc. (this second part could be left out). The dominator can also protect the same sliver multiple times in the same round, with the effects stacking. The dominator may also choose to give up an instance of protection to add a +1 bonus to one of its attempts to steal a sliver for the round (can also give up multiple to gain bonuses to more than one steal attempt or a larger bonus to a single one).
    Thus if a dominator has 18 cha, it can protect 4 slivers and steal 2 each round. If it has a particularly useful sliver (either has high base stats or grants a good effect), it may choose to protect it twice giving it a +4 bonus. It then protects another sliver in a key position and gives up the last to gain a bonus to stealing a sliver the other dominator has that is also in a similar position to the sliver in a key position (as backup). The opposing dominator likewise can choose to protect its slivers, and may try to steal those of the other, but would not know of the allotment of protection. This ends up being somewhat similar to not knowing what cards an opponent has in hand.
    Also, keep in mind that while slivers are hiveminds, the leaders are generally intelligent (such as the sliver queen which was at one point negotiated with as I recall (though I may be wrong there).

    Also, I notice you left out metallic and token slivers. Any particular reason, or are they planned for later?

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Really? No one's asked it yet? OK then. Where are the Winged Slivers? The only way a DM can truly TPK with style is if the whole hive has 60' flight with perfect maneuverability
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Winged Slivers is there.

    Now there's no Clot/Crypt slivers to regenerate after mass removal. I suggest Fast Healing and Stacking HDs.

    I'm still thinking of how to do Hibernation slivers. Bouncing makes no sense in D&D.
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Just noticed, but the range of the sliver abilities doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. Then again I may just be failing my search check, so if it is there and I missed it I apologize.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    Winged Slivers is there.

    Now there's no Clot/Crypt slivers to regenerate after mass removal. I suggest Fast Healing and Stacking HDs.

    I'm still thinking of how to do Hibernation slivers. Bouncing makes no sense in D&D.

    Ah how did I miss it? Very good balancing btw. This whole thread is going in my next campaign if you don't mind
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    (lots)

    Also, I notice you left out metallic and token slivers. Any particular reason, or are they planned for later?

    Owrtho
    That might work, but I'm just not sure I want to put that much effort into a system for it. To address a couple of specific points=
    I know the Queen is intelligent. That's why she has high Int and a variable alignment.
    Currently, every sliver is controlled singly, once per day. I'm sure I said that somewhere.
    Metallic slivers will probably appear later. Token slivers are just Lesser slivers with no special ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    Now there's no Clot/Crypt slivers to regenerate after mass removal. I suggest Fast Healing and Stacking HDs.

    I'm still thinking of how to do Hibernation slivers. Bouncing makes no sense in D&D.
    I'll get around to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Really? No one's asked it yet? OK then. Where are the Winged Slivers? The only way a DM can truly TPK with style is if the whole hive has 60' flight with perfect maneuverability
    They're there. I even arranged it so that four winged slivers gives you perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Just noticed, but the range of the sliver abilities doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. Then again I may just be failing my search check, so if it is there and I missed it I apologize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Ah how did I miss it? Very good balancing btw. This whole thread is going in my next campaign if you don't mind
    Thank you! Be careful, they should be underpowered in low numbers, but a cleverly constructed hive that uses it's Beacons well is massively strong. I even nerfed Beacons-originally, they gave those around them all sliver abilities that were being given to the Queen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    That might work, but I'm just not sure I want to put that much effort into a system for it. To address a couple of specific points=
    I know the Queen is intelligent. That's why she has high Int and a variable alignment.
    Currently, every sliver is controlled singly, once per day. I'm sure I said that somewhere.
    Well, as I mentioned that still runs into issues with wars between hives. As it is, then when a sliver under the control of the other hive enters the range of the first, it always has a chance of turning against its original hive. It also seems odd that if a dominator can steal control just by being close enough, it can't actively exert that power to steal control back.

    And as mentioned you could easily leave off the whole protection method of my proposed system. It then just becomes that dominators have to actively attempt to take control of another dominator's sliver.

    Also, it seems like a sliver that would boost the range of other slivers nearby could be good. And while I'm thinking of it, how do sliver abilities interact with non-sliver dominators (as it mentions that dominators gain the abilities of all slivers under their control)?

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, as I mentioned that still runs into issues with wars between hives. As it is, then when a sliver under the control of the other hive enters the range of the first, it always has a chance of turning against its original hive. It also seems odd that if a dominator can steal control just by being close enough, it can't actively exert that power to steal control back.

    And as mentioned you could easily leave off the whole protection method of my proposed system. It then just becomes that dominators have to actively attempt to take control of another dominator's sliver.

    Also, it seems like a sliver that would boost the range of other slivers nearby could be good. And while I'm thinking of it, how do sliver abilities interact with non-sliver dominators (as it mentions that dominators gain the abilities of all slivers under their control)?

    Owrtho
    I was just trying to go for simplicity, especially now it's late.

    Quite simply. The non-slivers get the abilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Here is Littha's attempt, dunno if it will help you.
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Heh, and I can't believe no one has pointed you towards Zaydos's sliver attempt.
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Litta's is interesting, but a little too simplistic for my tastes. I believe I've seen Zaydos'. But thanks anyway! And I just had a pwnsome idea for Ghostflame...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Alright... this is getting used in a campaign I'm making.

    Though, the Broodmaster feat, even with the prereqs, is broken. Utterly so, due to the power Slivers give one another... I love it!

    Also, perhaps a feat that allows one to disrupt the Hivemind?
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Bear in mind that sliver-sharing is broken by an Anti-Magic Field!
    And yes, a feat that does that may make sense... spells too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Yeah, the AMF would work to disrupt it... but if you want a way to disrupt the Hivemind without nerfing your casters?

    Other Note: The high-end Slivers(Plague, Battering, any others that are at that level) could be classified as Elite Slivers, for ease of referencing.

    Other ideas: An ACF or feat for casters that allows Summon Monster spells to summon Slivers? Or, just a series of Summon Sliver spells(Summon Lesser Sliver, Summon Sliver, Summon Greater Sliver, Summon Elite Sliver(Battering, Plague, Etc), Summon Sliver Horde)? A feat or ACF to allow Wildshape as a Sliver?

    Also, my contributions:

    Homing Sliver(Regular Sliver)
    A Sliver within range of at least one Heart Sliver gains the following Special Quality:
    Change Form(Su): As a standard action creature may change itself into any Sliver, Lesser Sliver, Greater Sliver, or Elite Sliver. It loses this ability, and gains all abilities of the Sliver it has changed to. Its hit dice do not change. This change is permanent.

    Plague Sliver(Elite Sliver)
    All creatures of the Sliver subtype gain one negative level for each Plague Sliver within range of them. This never results in permanent level loss, but cannot be removed so long as they remain within range of a Plague Sliver.
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    I think it would work better as a spell. I'll do that later.
    Elite Slivers is a good name. Thanks.

    I was going to add slivers to the Nature's Ally list.
    ...ohgod, I forgot Druids can't wildshape to magical beasts. Um. EDIT AHOY. A feat perhaps, or just an explicit 'Ignore this mainly because Lix wants a character to'
    Hmm.
    An ACF might work, actually. I never intend to Wild Shape to anything else.

    Homing Sliver seems massively abusable... Admittedly, many of them are. I might make them a Summoning type ability.

    And I had plans for Plague Sliver! It'll be constant damage to the Dominator.

    Thanks for trying to help, but I have plans for most of the simpler ones. It's the hibernators and dormants and frenetics and weird stuff that I don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    If my DM ever finds this......
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    You'll get eaten?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    On the Slivers As Animal Companions, Summons, Etcetera, you should mention something about what happens to them when encountering Dominators (or rather the area a dominator controls). It seems that given their generally magical connection to you, that they should have some form of bonus to not being controlled by them. Otherwise, unless you've managed to take the Lead the Hive feat, they'll easily be stolen from you, preventing their use at times they would be most powerful (while fighting other slivers).

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Point! That was meant to be in there as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Well, that may help some, but it still isn't likely to make much difference when you consider that the slivers seem to average about 10 cha, while the dominators average 20, giving them +5 on their check to dominate compared to the slivers.

    As a side note, Life Unending, being based off regenerate, might make more sense as an immediate action done in response to the sliver dying, but preventing the sliver using it from making use of its next full round action (may also require it hasn't taken its turn yet that round). Then if you want more of the slivers to make it stronger, have the hp it recovers for the revived sliver based on the number. Poultice Sliver should also be added to the list as well as possibly Sedge Sliver (given they both also regenerate).

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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Poultice is a 2/2. Sedge I'll check when I get to it.

    To be honest, however strongly they're linked to you, it makes sense that they can be taken.
    Plus, if you're taking Slivers and not intending to get the Dominator Trait, you're doing it wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: [d&d 3.5] Slivers (Yes, Again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Poultice is a 2/2. Sedge I'll check when I get to it.

    To be honest, however strongly they're linked to you, it makes sense that they can be taken.
    Plus, if you're taking Slivers and not intending to get the Dominator Trait, you're doing it wrong.
    Except that you can't get the Dominator trait unless you have the ability to become a sliver, and personally I think it should be possible to dominate them without being a sliver (though you wouldn't gain their abilities then). Mind this could likely be fixed by adding a feat that does just that (letting you count as a dominator for your slivers, but not gaining their abilities or being a sliver).

    Also, my issue isn't that they can be taken, but that they're almost certain to be taken. Particularly bad given the range that dominators have, meaning that just by walking through a currently safe area on the edge of the dominator's influence (which you don't know about since your not near the area where the hive is active), you can suddenly loose your familiar/animal companion, with on way of getting it back without hunting down and killing the Dominator (likely rather difficult if your at lower levels), and no way of getting a new one (as your current one is still alive, it just abandoned you), until it randomly dies in some fight you have no knowledge of or control over thus making you loose xp. Also in the case of there being some form of magical bond between your souls or geis making it serve you (such as in the case of familiars), you'd expect there to be some kind of decent resistance on its part, at least to the point it won't almost always fail the save.

    Owrtho
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    My Homebrew
    [creature]Shiny: Monster Competition XXXVI entry.
    [class]Wisp fire guide: Follow me. I have such sights to show you.
    [class]Ozodrin: A class to play as an eldritch horror.
    other hombrew

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