Who's Excited For Skyrim?

[sentaku]

The Elder Scrolls are a very powerful artifact where everything past, present and future have been written. Sort of a mix between prophetic scrolls and Astinus's book collection in Dragonlance Verse.

In-game, they are never seen (save one exception). They are usually used as Framing Device, "This tale has been written in the Elder Scrolls", to present the player's story.

Traditionally, their access is very limited and they need an entire order of monks to translate and make sense of what's written.

The exception to the rules mentioned above occured during Oblivion. A very important character asked you to steal them (very hard to do) so he could read his own future, in order to know what course to take.

Well actually he read the past of someone who one of the gods (a daedra) had cursed to be unknown.

In specific

Spoiler

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The Gray Cowl of Nocturnal was stolen by Emer Dareloth. For punishment of this Nocturnal cursed Dareloth that his name was erased from history. This curse was passed down with the cowl until the time of the Oblivion Crisis. By reading the name of Emar Dareloth from the elder scroll the current gray fox broke the curse.

[Gaius Marius]

I wasn't aware of the specifics, thanks for the specifications. I didnt wanted to spoil that specific plot line, 'cause it was one of the best, IMHO.

I have to say, however. How lucky was that character that the very Elder Scroll we stole happened to contain the information he needed?

[Tome]

I have to say, however. How lucky was that character that the very Elder Scroll we stole happened to contain the information he needed?

Considering that he'd arranged for the monks to bring that exact scroll out for viewing, luck had very little to do with it.

[Calemyr]

I've got a question-slash-concern I was hoping some of the more well-read followers of Skyrim might know the answer to, about the whole romance/marriage element introduced in the game. I'm aware you can play a gay vampire werewolf khajit dragonslayer and all, but I was curious if anyone knew how they handled it.

They don't have Chris Avellone, so I assume it'll be handled with at least some degree of optimism, but beyond that I wonder how the basic mechanic will work. Is it like Fable, where you can flirt with anyone in the world, anyone in the entire world, except for anyone that you form any kind emotional bond with (there are maybe two exceptions each game, but one of them is only available late in the game and the other is pretty generic)? Is it like Baldur's Gate II or Dragon Age I or II, where there are a few (hopefully well written) options? Is it going to be somewhere in between, with several defined (but not overly so) options? Is it possible, as it were, to actually give a crap about them?

I really don't know why I care about this. No, I tell a lie, I care because I like to fancy myself a storyteller and believe that matters like this should not be addressed if they aren't going to be handled maturely (as in properly, not as in "mature content" - which is a stupid and wildly inaccurate term). If they aren't going to bother to do it right, I'd rather not bother to see it.

Still interested in the game itself, of course.

[Jeivar]

They don't have Chris Avellone, so I assume it'll be handled with at least some degree of optimism, but beyond that I wonder how the basic mechanic will work. Is it like Fable, where you can flirt with anyone in the world, anyone in the entire world, except for anyone that you form any kind emotional bond with (there are maybe two exceptions each game, but one of them is only available late in the game and the other is pretty generic)? Is it like Baldur's Gate II or Dragon Age I or II, where there are a few (hopefully well written) options? Is it going to be somewhere in between, with several defined (but not overly so) options? Is it possible, as it were, to actually give a crap about them?

I really don't know why I care about this. No, I tell a lie, I care because I like to fancy myself a storyteller and believe that matters like this should not be addressed if they aren't going to be handled maturely (as in properly, not as in "mature content" - which is a stupid and wildly inaccurate term). If they aren't going to bother to do it right, I'd rather not bother to see it.

I totally agree with this. I don't see the point in playing out a flat, lifeless romance that can be completed in ten minutes with any random shopkeeper.

[Avilan the Grey]

I got DNF early, and it was blocked until the release date.

I was thinking about this, because apparently there is a rumor that some store in Holland started selling early and tons of people online are jealous because they "get to start playing early". I am not, because I figured it was only a rumor (at least only a rumor that the game is playable before tomorrow) and the lack of spoilers being posted all over the universe is proof of that, I think.

[Somebloke]

I totally agree with this. I don't see the point in playing out a flat, lifeless romance that can be completed in ten minutes with any random shopkeeper.

Well, it was amusing when you would walk into town and literally have a flock of admirers begging to marry you.

I've heard the following (largely unsubstantiated) on the matter:

a) You can only marry specific NPCs or companions, and
b) There are 'lots' of NPCs you can marry (apparently a remark from someone who read the Guide).

So chances are (i.e. I hope) that a number of NPCs you can bond with- includding a number of companions- will have a 'romance' sidestory- similar to your deepening relationships in New Vegas (which would be awesome).

Won't really know until sometime after tomorrow...

[Craft (Cheese)]

They don't have Chris Avellone, so I assume it'll be handled with at least some degree of optimism, but beyond that I wonder how the basic mechanic will work. Is it like Fable, where you can flirt with anyone in the world, anyone in the entire world, except for anyone that you form any kind emotional bond with (there are maybe two exceptions each game, but one of them is only available late in the game and the other is pretty generic)? Is it like Baldur's Gate II or Dragon Age I or II, where there are a few (hopefully well written) options? Is it going to be somewhere in between, with several defined (but not overly so) options? Is it possible, as it were, to actually give a crap about them?

I really don't know why I care about this. No, I tell a lie, I care because I like to fancy myself a storyteller and believe that matters like this should not be addressed if they aren't going to be handled maturely (as in properly, not as in "mature content" - which is a stupid and wildly inaccurate term). If they aren't going to bother to do it right, I'd rather not bother to see it.

Still interested in the game itself, of course.

Unfortunately it looks pretty bad. You can marry just about any NPC in the game world it seems, even ones that logically you shouldn't be able to: In an interview Todd Howard talked about how he married a girl who was already with someone, and her boyfriend/suitor would come into his bedroom every night to sleep with her. It was, however, in response to a question of "What kinds of amusing bugs have you ran into?" so this may or may not be in the final game. I fear, however, Bethesda will just use "Oh, Tamriel is a cheesy free love polyamorous sexual utopia" as an excuse not to fix immersion-shattering bugs like this.

As for the "don't even touch mature topics if you can't do them right", I completely agree. It remains to be seen whether I'll like the romance/marriage system or not but by all accounts I've good reason to be very pessimistic. At the very least they've stressed that romance won't be shoved in your face and it'll only ever even come up if you go out of your way to do it. So there won't be dozens of people begging you to marry them whenever you walk into town.

At least, I hope.

EDIT: It should be noted, however, that there are companions you can have following you around aside from your spouse. From what I've seen (and unfortunately I can't give sources without getting banned) these seem to have unique backstories and motivations for following you, not just "Hey baby let's get busy."

[Calemyr]

Unfortunately it looks pretty bad. You can marry just about any NPC in the game world it seems, even ones that logically you shouldn't be able to: In an interview Todd Howard talked about how he married a girl who was already with someone, and her boyfriend/suitor would come into his bedroom every night to sleep with her. It was, however, in response to a question of "What kinds of amusing bugs have you ran into?" so this may or may not be in the final game. I fear, however, Bethesda will just use "Oh, Tamriel is a cheesy free love polyamorous sexual utopia" as an excuse not to fix immersion-shattering bugs like this.

That would be a disappointing turn of events. It would effectively be going from the old subtlety of "you know what they say about dark elves" and the curious coincidences in sleeping routines of NPC AIs on the Anvil docks, to a flat out "screw it, if we're getting an M rating, we might as well enjoy it!". It'd be like going from Doctor Who to Torchwood... and I'm beginning to believe that's the idea.

That's the problem with Bethesda, I can easily believe the absolute best of them and the absolute worst, because they never ever fail to combine absolutely brilliant ideas with mind-numbingly stupid decisions. My only hope is that this goes the same way as the Oblivion bug where the mage roasts the dog because it won't stop yapping: nowhere, with only a dogskin rug on the mage's floor to mark it's passing.

[Archonic Energy]

I got DNF early, and it was blocked until the release date.

is that something you want to be admiting to?
DNF wasn't that bad! it entertained me for at least 6 hours more than MW3 would apparantly
so... 13 hrs to go...

[Cole10000]

I remember reading about something kind of special amulet that when you're wearing it "romance" choices appear in the dialouge box. I'm not sure how this applied to random shopkeep #5 however, but I assume you'll be able to mary anyone (within reason) and maybe get some kind of quest to make it more than you, 'Hey you wanna get married.' them, 'Sure.'

[Avilan the Grey]

Buying this on my lunch break tomorrow. No pre-booking but I have three stores downtown. I seriously doubt all of them will sell out on a standard work day before 11am.

[DabblerWizard]

I remember reading about something kind of special amulet that when you're wearing it "romance" choices appear in the dialouge box...

^ I've heard the same thing.

Descriptions on the Radiant AI / Radiant Story lead me to conclude that interacting with NPCs is critical to quest development. Why not utilize the same system for romancing? That is, I hope you can't romance a character you've never quested for, or otherwise interacted with significantly.

It would be hilarious if an NPC tried to set me up. Also, I wonder how many times my male mage breton will have to swat away the ladies before they take the hint.

In other news, I was looking forward to reading reviews on Skyrim this morning, but apparently the review embargo only lifts 11am EST.

Alas, patience.

[Craft (Cheese)]

To make this absolutely clear, it's still just a sleeping routine. The problem is her getting married to someone else didn't disable her old partner's AI package telling him to climb into bed with her every night.

I remember reading about something kind of special amulet that when you're wearing it "romance" choices appear in the dialouge box. I'm not sure how this applied to random shopkeep #5 however, but I assume you'll be able to mary anyone (within reason) and maybe get some kind of quest to make it more than you, 'Hey you wanna get married.' them, 'Sure.'

First we heard of the amulet was Matt Carafano's comment on Romance of "It's a little amulet you can wear, just a little bonus." I've seen nothing clarifying this comment, sadly. None of the leaks I've been watching (from various folks who got the 360 version early that isn't tied to the street date) have given out any information on romance thus far.

I hope it's not what you describe though. That wouldn't even make any sense: It just reminds me of something a bad Oblivion modder would do. "Yeah I'm too lazy to make a proper in-game config dialogue so I'm gonna give you these inventory items to equip/unequip as a replacement, k?"

Anyway, for those who have also been following the leaks... (Seriously, I mean it when I put this in spoiler tags. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.)

Spoiler

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What about the werewolves? I was just expecting Werewolves to be haphazardly added in as DLC but holy ****ing ****, this is better than I could have ever imagined! I saw werewolves eating people too. Stolen from Curse of Hircine but that was a wonderful mod implementation of werewolves so I can't complain too much about it. I wonder if you have a requirement to kill people every night like in Morrowind?

[Gaius Marius]

Romance options?

Hmmm... What Would Drizzt Do?

A: find a 8-year old orphaned girl and be a constant presence in her life during puberty so she sets her idealized standards as me, and wait until she is no longer jailbait.

If she finds an alternate lover in the meanwhile, have an "unfortunate" accident that implicates my sad backstory that will get rid of this unwanted rival. And then go into angst mode right after to make it seem I not responsible, just to make sure my love interest comes after me and thu develop feelings for me as substitution.

Yhea, that'll go over well

[Somebloke]

As of 1 o'clock, the reviews for the game have been released onto the net. So far so good- still reading them. It will be interesting to see what lives up to the hype.

A major complaint to date has been the large number of bugs, although this is never seen as a dealbreaker.

[DabblerWizard]

... First we heard of the amulet was Matt Carafano's comment on Romance of "It's a little amulet you can wear, just a little bonus." I've seen nothing clarifying this comment, sadly. None of the leaks I've been watching (from various folks who got the 360 version early that isn't tied to the street date) have given out any information on romance thus far.

I hope it's not what you describe though. That wouldn't even make any sense: It just reminds me of something a bad Oblivion modder would do. "Yeah I'm too lazy to make a proper in-game config dialogue so I'm gonna give you these inventory items to equip/unequip as a replacement, k?"
...

I was wondering about this myself.

If only a few, scripted romance options were available, then it would clearly make sense to just write out the code for those specific characters. However, since maybe many more than a few are available romance options, it might be code burdensome to activate that line of script in all of those NPCs at once, for only the off chance that the player actually chooses that particular NPC. I wouldn't know if that rationale is reasonable among programmers.

Alternately, requiring an amulet to active these options also creates a degree of separation, where players can completely ignore this this option if they so choose.

To be fair, a comparison like Dragon Age doesn't fit if only because of the sheer number of romance options.

[The Succubus]

The Elder Scrolls are a very powerful artifact where everything past, present and future have been written. Sort of a mix between prophetic scrolls and Astinus's book collection in Dragonlance Verse.

In-game, they are never seen (save one exception). They are usually used as Framing Device, "This tale has been written in the Elder Scrolls", to present the player's story.

Traditionally, their access is very limited and they need an entire order of monks to translate and make sense of what's written.

The exception to the rules mentioned above occured during Oblivion. A very important character asked you to steal them (very hard to do) so he could read his own future, in order to know what course to take.

Oh really? I thought they were something made by Mojang. canuseewhutididthar?

[Gaius Marius]

Oh really? I thought they were something made by Mojang. canuseewhutididthar?

They just make Scrolls.

Bethesda's are more ancient, which is why we call these Elder Scrolls

[Arcran]

Oh really? I thought they were something made by Mojang. canuseewhutididthar?

I see what you did there.

[Drascin]

So from what I hear from people in the Penny Arcade forums, the game has severe clashing with ATI drivers. Being I have an ATI card, I think I'll be giving this a pass for a while, I'm afraid.

[Nevereatcars]

SKYRIM Reviews Are Out. Thought You Should Know.

[Gaius Marius]

What's that, nevereatcars? I have trouble reading you...

[Alchemistmerlin]

They just make Scrolls.

Bethesda's are more ancient, which is why we call these Elder Scrolls

But how will I EVER be able to tell the difference?!

I sure hope someone gets lawyers involved and forces me to choose a side.

skyrim Reviews Are Out. Though You Should Know.

Though I should know what?! Know what?! The suspense is killing me.


__________________________________________________ _____
Do we have any information regarding DRM and the PC version of Skyrim?

[Bouregard]

But how will I EVER be able to tell the difference?!

I sure hope someone gets lawyers involved and forces me to choose a side.


Though I should know what?! Know what?! The suspense is killing me.


__________________________________________________ _____
Do we have any information regarding DRM and the PC version of Skyrim?

Fun Fact:
A friend of mine asked me what game they mean by "Elder Scrolls", he is playing Morrowind for nearly 4 years now because he can't run anything recent.
Seems like Bethesda has to work on their image... everyone refers to Morrowind, Oblivion by the title and not by series, in fact even on the official forums there are people who don't know that Morrowind and Oblivion plays in the same fantasy universe.

[Androgeus]

skyrim Reviews Are Out. Though You Should Know.

speak up, some of us are a tad deaf

[Croverus]

On the romance thing, is it plausible that "It's a little amulet you can wear, just a little bonus" was a metaphor? As in, romance is an accessory you can wear but it isn't essential to your experiance? Just speculation on my part.

[death pig]

The little bit of Daggerfall I played I didn't enjoy, but I very consciously didn't enjoy that because of hardware limitations. It's kind of the reason I have yet to play through the Fallout games and why I didn't like Chronotrigger... and why I could never go back and play Silent Hill. They just look so ugly and clunky.

If someone remade Daggerfall with an updated engine I would almost certainly love it for all the reasons I really loved Morrowind and enjoyed Oblibbions.

I also will constantly say about Oblibbions what I say about Lord of the Rings:

See, LotR were probably good movies. But compared to the books they were utter rubbish to me. I can't judge LotR: The Movies separate from LotR: The Books, and it really, really hurt my enjoyment of the movies. That being said every single time I think of a complaint about LotR: The Movies I end up with "But this is how it happened in the books!" "But this scene missed the entire POINT of the similar scene in the books!"

Oblibbions was almost certainly a very good game. I enjoyed it a lot. But for reference I have easily logged over a thousand hours of gameplay in Morrowind and have purchased it on three separate occasions. I have taken the time to acquire 90% of the books in that game and read almost all of them. I can still fire up my XBox version, my old save in which I'm filthy stinking rich, and have a blast just roaming around looking at things... and usually do until the game crashes like a freight train.

So when I say that Oblibbions drove me straight bonkers, I mean it. Honestly the worst part of Oblibbions for me was the main quest. It seemed to stray so far from what Elder Scrolls was: a non-linear romp through a highly imaginative worlds of grey morals. Who was the clear "good guy" in Morrowind's quest? The Emperor who was using you to quell what he thought was a religious civil war in the province of Morrowind so he could exert further control? The "god-king" Vivec who was persecuting anyone who mentioned the fact that he betrayed and murdered his best friend Nerevar hundreds of years ago? Or is it the "redeemer" Dagoth-Ur, who's goal is to free the Dunmer people of their yoke and rid them of Imperial oppression... by spreading plague after plague across the land, corrupting their very bodies, and seizing their consciousness? Or is it Azura, who is using you as an instrument of her revenge, killing the last remaining members of the Chimmer who laughed in her face two thousand+ years before?

But then there was the leveling system. In Morrowind, if you tried exploring a Daedric ruin at level 1, you'd promptly meet a Daedric Lord and then meet the business end of his Daedric Weapon and finally you would be reacquainted with the "Which save would you like to load?" screen. Of course when you went back to that ruin at level 10, that Daedric Lord who so promptly handed you your entrails is just a challenging fight. When you go back at level 20 the Daedric Lord is just a speed bump, and you find yourself picking up the cursed gems so you can get the daedric weapon the guy is spawning with as well as his heart for {insert potion here}.

In Oblibbions when you go into the Kvatch gate at level 1, you're met with a hoard of "scamp runts," the cripples of the Daedric army. These are challenging fights because you're so low level and they're perfectly suited to fighting you. When you go in at level 10, you run into Clanfear. Either you've got good defenses and this is just a really long and boring fight, or they hit you in the face for MASSIVE DAMAGE and you die very quickly... but either way it's just as challenging as it was before. When you go in at level 20, there are XIVIALI there who are just a really, really, really long and boring fight and pose absolutely no risk to you because while it has damage and HP increased on par with yours, you acquired 110% reflect damage as a constant effect on yourself.

The first really gave you the feeling of advancing through the world. This world is static and you're in it, and you're dynamic. You are growing. The second gives you the feeling that, well, you're never growing. Heck, I used to specifically not level my character because going into dungeons and one-shotting dudes was FUN. Sneaking around, critical with my bow, watching the guy flop over a railing... that was a lot of fun.

Compare to level 20 when it was "sneak around, critical with my bow, plant 10 more arrows in his chest, draw out the short sword, mash "attack" for thirty seconds."

Yeah. I seem to have gotten a lot more powerful, eh? </sarcasm>

That being said roaming around the countryside and finding places was still awesome... though I never did experience any of the cool radiant AI stuff people said was going on. Also properly modded (Oscuro's and a few choice others) Oblivion can beat the pants off of vanilla Morrowind... but that's like saying I can soup up a VDub Beetle to outpreform your off-the-shelf corvette.


But Morrowind wasn't difficult to understand what to do. The guy gives you clear orders: "You need to go establish a cover. Join a guild. Or maybe do freelance work. Come back when you've gained some experience." I.E. go do a sidequest or two, gain a level or two, then come back and I'll have a job for you to do.

Then he gives you a series of jobs gathering information which usually involves hunting down items for people.

Then he gives you a series of jobs that are more important, and more important, and more important, until suddenly an ancient god is speaking to you in your dreams and you're busting people out of a political prison called the "Ministry of Truth."



F:NV reminds me of why I love Obsidian so much. Their writing staff is superb. The dialogues, the quest lines... I mean there are some minor quibbles (Caesar's Legion is way too "evil") but until you've heard No-Bark on the radio saying, " "As a local crackpot told a toy bear near one of our microphones," "They're ghouls. Religious ghouls in rockets looking for a land to call their own! Don't you laugh at me! I know a spell that'll show your true form! Cave-rat taught it to me."" you haven't really experienced life.

Or Fantastic. Just... Fantastic.

"*Bleep* man, I do everything!"



I really do not think that the Greybeards acquired this power by killing dragons without anyone else mentioning dragons at all. And the fluff of the Greybeards is a lot closer to them just being spellcasters who like to yell a lot than people with hitherto unexplained magical powers.

WHEN I SAW THE COMMERCIAL OF "SKYRIM"I ALMOST FAINTED,IT WAS SO *BLEEPIN* COOL!

[Daremonai]

On the romance thing, is it plausible that "It's a little amulet you can wear, just a little bonus" was a metaphor? As in, romance is an accessory you can wear but it isn't essential to your experiance? Just speculation on my part.

That, or Nords use amulets instead of rings for weddings. Still just guessing though - I'll find out tomorrow.

[Gaius Marius]

If we can genuinely seduce anybody in the game, my (eventual) Nordic character is SO going to try to seduce every high-noble ladies he can put his... Hands on.

Keeping the Dragonborn bloodlines among the ruling class, ye know?