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    Default A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    I just re-read 794 and I realized that there is a new factor in the 'Haley and Sabine are evil opposites' theme.

    Basically, and according to The Giant himself, when the Linear Guild was first introduced one of the things that made Sabine an opposite of Haley was that Sabine was 'with' Nale while Haley was not able to admit she had feelings for Elan. Even during their second encounter with the LG, where Haley finally admitted her feelings at the end, Nale and Sabine are shown as having a mostly stable, though clearly Evil, relationship.

    However, it also showed the first hiccup in Nale and Sabine's relationship when Sabine gets mad at Nale for trying to kill Haley rather than sleep with her and Nale is shown as a little disturbed by how much sex Sabine is having with people who aren't him.

    Now, we are shown that Sabine's promiscuity really gets to Nale, though it being with his good twin might be a factor as well. This means that Nale and Sabine's relationship is either deteriorating or not as strong as we've been led to believe, while Elan and Haley's relationship is stronger and more stable than ever.

    So, basically, it seems that as Haley and Elan gain strength in their relationship, the 'evil opposites' dynamic causes Nale and Sabine to lose strength in their relationship.

    And then of course there are the two kisses as well. When Haley kissed Nale, she thought he was Elan and Nale was plotting to murder her. When Sabine and Elan kissed, Sabine knew perfectly well that it wasn't Nale and decided to enjoy it anyway, while Elan's plan was to use the kiss as a distraction to escape.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Crisis21; 2011-06-10 at 11:54 AM.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    For the last time, Haley's not a Celes-

    Oh, hang on. That was actually a pretty good post.

    I approve!
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Thoughts?
    Just one:

    Whoa.

    ...okay, that was a bit too brief. So allow me to add:

    Well put together analysis. I approve, mate.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    So, basically, it seems that as Haley and Elan gain strength in their relationship, the 'evil opposites' dynamic causes Nale and Sabine to lose strength in their relationship.
    Good post.

    As the stakes are raised, Elan is showing ever more mental focus, and consequently growing competence. (This last strip is shows a very clever usage of the Bluff skill.) And Haley, too. Their relationship is on a very positive trajectory.

    On the other side of the mirror, Sabine will inevitably betray Nale if they ever actually get close to ultimate success.
    Last edited by Snails; 2011-06-10 at 12:28 PM.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    What? A theory thread about Haley and Sabine, that actually makes sense, and uses evidence supported by the Giant in a non-troll manor?

    I must have fallen through a portal where there are actually productive theory post

    Any case. I approve this message
    Last edited by Who149; 2011-06-10 at 12:52 PM.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    I have thinking about that, but your post is just perfect.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Very well thought out, and showcasing the Giant's awesome skills of character development.

    Subtle, sir, very subtle.

    Good post though.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    For a long time, I've been thinking Nale and Sabine's relationship should have weakened in order to mirror Haley and Elan's strengthened relationship.

    But you might be overanalyzing a one-off joke. Then again, it could be leading to a complete split when Nale finds out she's been using him. Either way, good analysis.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Did Crisis21 win a tread he posted?

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Dear Crisis21,

    I am writing to you on behalf of the Internet Acquisition Association Committee. We have been informed that you won a thread by means of logic and reasoning, thus gaining the respect of your peers. Therefore we officially bestow upon you one (1) Internet, with cookie. Along with an honorary membership in the Association (you do not, however, get a reserved parking space OR free snacks coupons). In order to receive your internet please send a reply to this message with your address, and a verification of your identity. You are also free to provide a personal message, which will become publicly available for all to read on our website as soon as you've received your internet.
    This offer will remain valid until you have received your internet or are you are caught trolling.

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    Thumbs up Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Hm. Every couple fights. Even given the tiffs you mentioned, I’m not certain it’s enough to show an outright deterioration in the Nale/Sabine relationship. However, it is certainly something to watch. Good catch!
    Why are things all… blocky? And what’s with this pickaxe?

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Who149 View Post
    What? A theory thread about Haley and Sabine, that actually makes sense, and uses evidence supported by the Giant in a non-troll manor?

    I must have fallen through a portal where there are actually productive theory post

    Any case. I approve this message
    No, there is no magic portal under your bed which leads to a...

    *slap* darn, the "haley's afterlife" thread is still there. Guess this is the real universe after all.

    In fact, Nale's method for attempting to kill Haley was exactly what got Haley to admit she liked Elan...AND increase Sabine's anger. For once, someone has posted a theory about a webcomic that MAKES SENSE!!!
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcanesaint View Post
    Dear Crisis21,

    I am writing to you on behalf of the Internet Acquisition Association Committee. We have been informed that you won a thread by means of logic and reasoning, thus gaining the respect of your peers. Therefore we officially bestow upon you one (1) Internet, with cookie. Along with an honorary membership in the Association (you do not, however, get a reserved parking space OR free snacks coupons). In order to receive your internet please send a reply to this message with your address, and a verification of your identity. You are also free to provide a personal message, which will become publicly available for all to read on our website as soon as you've received your internet.
    This offer will remain valid until you have received your internet or are you are caught trolling.

    We wish you a nice day.

    Yours sincerely,

    arcanesaint.
    Thank you arcanesaint.

    Like many people who have won internets, I did not actually set out to do so when I posted. I simply shared my insight and reasoning with my fellow net crawlers in a manner that was plain and straightforward. I am both amazed and pleased that those who have read my post consider me worthy of such an honor. I am both humbled by and grateful for this award.

    All my thanks,

    Crisis21.

    P.S. If you do not mind, I will be placing your letter in my extended signature.
    Last edited by Crisis21; 2011-06-10 at 09:10 PM.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    P.S. If you do not mind, I will be placing your letter in my extended signature.
    We certainly do not mind. Our website is a bit down at the moment though, because currently all our members are going through exams and we don't have time to look for free webhosting

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    The only way I can see Sabine truly betraying Nale is if someone more suited to the IFCC's plans comes along and she's ordered to.

    Of course, that means there's also a very good chance we'll also end up seeing how good a kisser Tarquin is - if the fiends can convince him to go along with their plan, he's much more competent than Nale, and it's also one more black mark on Nale's soul. Losing his girlfriend to his father of all people would send him so far over the edge, he may loop back to deadly clarity - which could be part of the fiend's plan, since either way, they win - either Tarquin joins them, or Nale actually becomes much more effective.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcanesaint View Post
    Dear Crisis21,

    I am writing to you on behalf of the Internet Acquisition Association Committee.
    [.....]
    This offer will remain valid until you have received your internet or are you are caught trolling.
    We wish you a nice day.
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    +1E10

    That post was made of pure awesomemeat marinated in awesomesauce, served with a decanter of awsomemead.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramien View Post
    The only way I can see Sabine truly betraying Nale is if someone more suited to the IFCC's plans comes along and she's ordered to.

    Of course, that means there's also a very good chance we'll also end up seeing how good a kisser Tarquin is - if the fiends can convince him to go along with their plan, he's much more competent than Nale, and it's also one more black mark on Nale's soul. Losing his girlfriend to his father of all people would send him so far over the edge, he may loop back to deadly clarity - which could be part of the fiend's plan, since either way, they win - either Tarquin joins them, or Nale actually becomes much more effective.
    I don't really think the Archfiends would want Tarquin. For one thing, Tarquin is smart, and after a while he would probably notice something is up - and then start asking questions. That is the last thing behind-the-curtain manipulators want. If you remember when the IFCC was talking about the Linear Guild, Quaar remarked "They look like total morons", to which one of the fiends replied "They are! Isn't it just perfect?" or something similar.

    While a more-effective Nale might be beneficial, I think the LG is already doing their job perfectly - blindly throwing wrenches everywhere and hoping they land on somebody's plans. This creates chaos and confusion the IFCC can exploit, and the IFCC doesn't have to worry about Nale thinking too much.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by RndmNumGen View Post
    I don't really think the Archfiends would want Tarquin. For one thing, Tarquin is smart, and after a while he would probably notice something is up - and then start asking questions. That is the last thing behind-the-curtain manipulators want. If you remember when the IFCC was talking about the Linear Guild, Quaar remarked "They look like total morons", to which one of the fiends replied "They are! Isn't it just perfect?" or something similar.

    While a more-effective Nale might be beneficial, I think the LG is already doing their job perfectly - blindly throwing wrenches everywhere and hoping they land on somebody's plans. This creates chaos and confusion the IFCC can exploit, and the IFCC doesn't have to worry about Nale thinking too much.
    The Archfiends wouldn't want Tarquin in the same role as Nale, true. However, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to put him to a different use that he would be more suited for, and his ability to cooperate with others to a much greater extent than his evil son would be an asset to the fiends all its own. Basically, I'm thinking more of a rather junior partner than a pawn, since if Tarquin can be convinced that either a: cooperation is in the best interest of his own goals or b:he can manipulate the archfiends behind the scenes as well, increasing his power base greatly.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    However, it also showed the first hiccup in Nale and Sabine's relationship when Sabine gets mad at Nale for trying to kill Haley rather than sleep with her and Nale is shown as a little disturbed by how much sex Sabine is having with people who aren't him.
    I was under the impression that Nale was just astonished that she'd been having sex with so many different people when she was away for such a short amount of time.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red XIV View Post
    I was under the impression that Nale was just astonished that she'd been having sex with so many different people when she was away for such a short amount of time.
    Well, yes. However the fact that he's so astonished that she can have sex so much in such a short amount of time very likely means that she hasn't done so with him. That would be a heavy blow to Nale's ego.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Wow nice post. I never thought about it, but it makes sense.

    As for Sabine betraying Nale, yes, that might happen.
    "Well baby, now we captured the gate. I know you want to use it to rule the world... but, uhm, how do I say this? My bosses want it too... I'm so sorry baby, but I have to kill you now."

    (granted for that they actually have to win a gate in the first place. But it might also happen already once Nale finds out who Sabine works for, and that they too are interested in the gates)

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaOOTSFan View Post
    +1E10

    That post was made of pure awesomemeat marinated in awesomesauce, served with a decanter of awsomemead.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Now, we are shown that Sabine's promiscuity really gets to Nale, though it being with his good twin might be a factor as well. This means that Nale and Sabine's relationship is either deteriorating or not as strong as we've been led to believe, while Elan and Haley's relationship is stronger and more stable than ever.

    So, basically, it seems that as Haley and Elan gain strength in their relationship, the 'evil opposites' dynamic causes Nale and Sabine to lose strength in their relationship.
    I disagree completely. Sabine says to Nale, "We've been over this before." They both know this is an issue; Nale's momentarily petulant and angry, but not furious. That they can so openly talk it out this way is a sign of a strong relationship, not a weak one.

    I honestly have more faith in Nale and Sabine's relationship than in Haley's and Elan's. The latter are still basically in the "crush" phase, and their relationship hasn't gone through any stresses more serious than Haley getting fed up with Elan being dumb. Even though we see the characters constantly, I don't have much sense of why Haley fell for Elan specifically, except that he's hot and nice; and no sense at all of why Elan fell for Haley. Honestly, do they even enjoy the same things?

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    to be honest, im not seeing it. nale and sabine have a pretty strong relationship, considering the fact that sabine is the personification of sex, and always has and always will do anything with anyone.

    if their relation really weakened them, i would expect a bit more conflict then what im seeing atm, plus id expect to see it actually hinder them a lot, not just in a single last panel joke

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toper View Post
    I disagree completely. Sabine says to Nale, "We've been over this before." They both know this is an issue; Nale's momentarily petulant and angry, but not furious. That they can so openly talk it out this way is a sign of a strong relationship, not a weak one.
    And yet there are many relationships where things that the couple has “been over before” are a sticking point in why the relationship failed. If Nale still gets petulant and angry the issue has not been resolved to his satisfaction from their talks about it.
    Why are things all… blocky? And what’s with this pickaxe?

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toper View Post
    I honestly have more faith in Nale and Sabine's relationship than in Haley's and Elan's. The latter are still basically in the "crush" phase, and their relationship hasn't gone through any stresses more serious than Haley getting fed up with Elan being dumb.
    I disagree here. They've been through quite alot:
    a) been seperated for almost a year
    b) Therkla, even though nothing actually happened
    c) Haley killing Crystal, which was something that goes against Elan's core personallity.

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    And yet there are many relationships where things that the couple has “been over before” are a sticking point in why the relationship failed. If Nale still gets petulant and angry the issue has not been resolved to his satisfaction from their talks about it.
    This is a core point in what I'm presenting.

    There are essentially two types of recurring issues in a relationship:

    The kind that becomes less threatening to the relationship each time it comes up, and the kind that becomes more threatening each time it comes up.

    I'll happily cite my own parents as an example of the first. They have some issues between them that remain fundamentally unresolved. These issues come up often enough that I can predict them, especially when I get involved as the middleman (ex: I volunteer to help my mother move some stuff that will go into storage, and she tells me to stack it in my father's home office space which I know he would not have agreed to and will get angry over). They joke about separation every now and then, but that's all it is, a joke. They've been married for more than thirty years and these issues have been pretty much constant that whole time. Their relationship is strong enough to weather this.

    Nale and Sabine strike me as an example of the second more and more each time one of their tiffs occurs. Someone on the forums was talking about fundamentally different morals in regards to succcubi culture, and that is one of Sabine and Nale's issues to a tee. When Nale was plotting to murder Haley, Sabine considered the act of murdering Haley without Sabine there to be a bigger betrayal than Nale having sex with Haley, which she would have had no problem with. Nale's perception, quick-save explanation notwithstanding, was the exact opposite. He thought that having sex with Haley would have been the bigger betrayal of Sabine and that killing her with Sabine absent would have been just fine. That's a fundamental difference of worldview, and far stronger relationships than theirs have been torn apart by such things.

    Sabine is also, by her own admission, an incarnation of illicit sex. Asking her to stop being promiscuous is like asking a fish to stop swimming. It is literally what she was made to do. The problem is that Nale is a man who, despite being lawful, never really grew out of the selfish spoiled brat phase ("Because no one denies me, Elan. Not father, not you, no one"). Given his personality as presented in the comic, I would be more surprised if he didn't expect Sabine to be loyal and faithful to only him than the reverse. Heck, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if, like most cliche villainous males, he fundamentally viewed Sabine as his personal property rather than an equal partner in their relationship.

    These are not the kind of problems that a healthy relationship can truly be forged with, much less survive for a prolonged period, if they are not addressed and dealt with to both parties' satisfaction.

    Sabine, I am convinced that she actually loves Nale. I'm also pretty certain that actually loving someone is an emotion she isn't truly equipped to deal with. Her infernal psychology is more suited to one-night-stands than a long term relationship. Her nature compels her to be promiscuous, and her primary solutions to any problem are to either try and kill/torture it or to throw liberal amounts of sex at it.

    Nale, on the other hand, I'm not sure if he actually loves Sabine. It is equally possible that he simply views her as the 'shiniest toy in the box' and a status symbol (you can keep your 'trophy wife', I've got a succubus!). As the Linear Guild business cards suggest ("taking disproportionate revenge for quasi-imagined slights"), he is a selfish and petty individual. Sabine straying from him in her promiscuity on a potentially regular basis is the kind of thing that his selfish, petty ego would take regular offense to.

    And then there's the fact that Sabine doesn't ultimately work for Nale and has been keeping this a secret from him for as long as they've known each other, something that Nale's ego really would not be able to handle. Given Nale's temper, he might just try and kill Sabine if he ever learned of this fact, whether he loves her or not.

    The more I ponder it, the more convinced I become that it's not a question of if Nale and Sabine's relationship will self-destruct, but when.
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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by RndmNumGen View Post
    I don't really think the Archfiends would want Tarquin. For one thing, Tarquin is smart, and after a while he would probably notice something is up - and then start asking questions. That is the last thing behind-the-curtain manipulators want. If you remember when the IFCC was talking about the Linear Guild, Quaar remarked "They look like total morons", to which one of the fiends replied "They are! Isn't it just perfect?" or something similar.

    While a more-effective Nale might be beneficial, I think the LG is already doing their job perfectly - blindly throwing wrenches everywhere and hoping they land on somebody's plans. This creates chaos and confusion the IFCC can exploit, and the IFCC doesn't have to worry about Nale thinking too much.
    Actually, only 1/3 of the IFCC wants chaos and confusion (the CE one), they all want evil, but only one wants chaos. And actually getting Tarquin AND the Guild would strengthen their plans to prove that a unified evil can be accomplished.

    Quote Originally Posted by TriForce View Post
    to be honest, im not seeing it. nale and sabine have a pretty strong relationship, considering the fact that sabine is the personification of sex, and always has and always will do anything with anyone.

    if their relation really weakened them, i would expect a bit more conflict then what im seeing atm, plus id expect to see it actually hinder them a lot, not just in a single last panel joke
    It isn't that it has completely weakened them yet, but it is starting to deteriorate slowly... little by little Nale is showing how possessive of Sabine and unfeeling to her needs, while Sabine is showing she is too promiscuous and passionate for the Nale's strict and calculating personality. People mention what do Haley and Elan see in one another and what do they have in common (which the answer is actually Haley sees the dashing rebel qualities that her father has crossed with a sweet innocence that makes his good heart untainted with the paranoia that plagued her father... while Elan sees the lovely and intelligent woman who can handle herself and put dictators and villains in their place... just like his mother. In other words they see all the best of their parents without the negatives if not actually having completely the optimal qualities to overcome/combat the shortcomings of their parents in the other)... but let's flip that question on its side and direct it at Sabine and Nale? The only things they have in common are they want to do evil, they want to have sex, and they want to kill Haley (maybe they also both want to screw Xykon, Roy, and Elan as well, but Sabine wants to do that in the sexual manner while Nale wants to do it in the strategic manner so that is actually quite different). Nale wants the gates so he can rule, Sabine wants the gate so the IIFC can rule (very different motive); Nale wants his twin brother dead, Sabine just wants his twin brother in bed (and anywhere else she can get him. In fact Elan has the only thing Sabine really cares about Nale for... his body... and has the whole charming good boy thing that attracts so many ladies to Elan). Sabine wants to have a relationship where she can nail everyone except Haley who she wants to kill, Nale wants to have a relationship where he can nail Sabine and make sure she can't have the relationship she wants and even deprive her of killing Haley just so he can do it to torture his brother; Nale keeps Thog around despite Thog hating pretty girls (Sabine can be loads of pretty girls). Nale repeatedly has recruited ugly males to the LG just so Sabine will have to pick him over them (seriously, name someone in the LG besides Nale who is supposedly attractive without being underage for their species, ancient for their species, hates females, or a stinking Kobold... no really, Kobolds stink... it is in their monster description... I mean seriously how does Yukyuk ever get sneak attacks in, he must be able to be smelled from 50 spaces away easily if not more)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    I disagree here. They've been through quite alot:
    a) been seperated for almost a year
    b) Therkla, even though nothing actually happened
    c) Haley killing Crystal, which was something that goes against Elan's core personallity.
    a) Absolutely Correct
    b) Correct also (the key points being nothing happened and the fact Elan still went through the trouble and the time they were apart might have made Haley more accepting of this)
    c) Actually I think Elan may still be ignorant of this fact, she gave them all plausible deniability by claiming she got the dagger as a going away present (speaking of which, think we'll see it any time soon... it has been a decent time) and we only have her flashback without full specifics of an off-screen conversation to presume that Haley gave full disclosure (though the recent affairs do seem to lean toward she was completely honest with him), so this is a most likely correct instead of a definitely correct.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    I personally think that Nale and Sabine will be just fine. One of the Giant's central themes is that evil is human too, and that the thoughtless enemy bent on blind revenge or destruction is only one type of evil, and a relatively rare one. Showing two irredeemably evil characters in a loving, imperfect relationship is a good fit for this theme, so I doubt that Rich will choose to undercut that by having their evil nature destroy their love in some sort of betrayal for power.

    (Although actually, there could totally be such a power-based betrayal. Likely as not, though, the betrayee would be very proud of the betrayer, and they wouldn't actually break up over it. Evil doesn't tear them apart, it brings them together!)

    I can see Crisis's argument, I just think Nale and Sabine are handling these particular tiffs rather maturely. Nale is capable of a whole lot more fury than he shows here and he isn't particularly good at self-restraint or lying, so it seems to me that his minor, brief anger and petulance here is just not that serious.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: A new twist in the Haley/Sabine opposites dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    The problem is that Nale is a man who, despite being lawful, never really grew out of the selfish spoiled brat phase ("Because no one denies me, Elan. Not father, not you, no one"). Given his personality as presented in the comic, I would be more surprised if he didn't expect Sabine to be loyal and faithful to only him than the reverse. Heck, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if, like most cliche villainous males, he fundamentally viewed Sabine as his personal property rather than an equal partner in their relationship.
    I've been thinking for a while now that Sabine is, in fact, Nale's familiar. Sure it would involve a little bending of the rules, but since when is that a problem?

    According to at least one ancient theory of witchcraft, a "familiar" was actually a demonic spirit briefed by the Powers of Darkness to help the witch out, give him guidance and counselling, and generally make sure he kept doing as much evil as possible. There is always an element of deceit, in that the witch thinks the familiar works for him, whereas in fact it works for the PoD. I think that model fits Sabine and Nale's relationship to a T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    These are not the kind of problems that a healthy relationship can truly be forged with, much less survive for a prolonged period, if they are not addressed and dealt with to both parties' satisfaction.
    Define "healthy" relationship? I don't believe Sabine has any interest in maintaining Nale as a happy, well-adjusted partner. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    Again, if we look at the relationship in the light of "classical" portrayals of witches and demons, then the object of the IFCC - as Sabine's employers - isn't to grant Nale more power. Their goal is to cause the maximum harm to everyone, including Nale. For them, a perfect outcome would be to see Nale reduced to a pitiable figure, increasingly desperate, seeking out acts of ever more monstrous and petty-minded evil to impress Sabine in the hope of winning her back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Sabine, I am convinced that she actually loves Nale. I'm also pretty certain that actually loving someone is an emotion she isn't truly equipped to deal with. Her infernal psychology is more suited to one-night-stands than a long term relationship. Her nature compels her to be promiscuous, and her primary solutions to any problem are to either try and kill/torture it or to throw liberal amounts of sex at it.
    I disagree strongly. I don't believe that Sabine is capable of loving anyone. The closest she can get is a kind of protective possessiveness, which is analogous to how anyone might feel about some pet project at work on which their future career prospects depend. Anything else she might show is just - for show. She's an expert manipulator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    Nale, on the other hand, I'm not sure if he actually loves Sabine. It is equally possible that he simply views her as the 'shiniest toy in the box' and a status symbol (you can keep your 'trophy wife', I've got a succubus!). As the Linear Guild business cards suggest ("taking disproportionate revenge for quasi-imagined slights"), he is a selfish and petty individual. Sabine straying from him in her promiscuity on a potentially regular basis is the kind of thing that his selfish, petty ego would take regular offense to.
    I think we may be erring, in fact, by applying the rather loaded word "love" to this relationship at all. Nale certainly feels possessive and jealous towards Sabine (witness the last strip), which I think might be enough for her to manipulate him. If Nale sees Sabine as a shiny toy - Sabine would accept that as a starting position, and set out to translate it into a real emotional dependency.

    She does this by encouraging Nale to think of their relationship as "real", and then springing these surprises - inconsistencies and disconnections - on him, forcing him to choose each time between confronting her and "accepting her for what she is". Each time, the issue is finely judged to get him to choose the second option, and this edges him - without fully realising it - to commit increasingly to the "relationship".

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis21 View Post
    The more I ponder it, the more convinced I become that it's not a question of if Nale and Sabine's relationship will self-destruct, but when.
    I think the relationship is only doomed if you think of it as a relationship between equals, who each ultimately want the other's good. I think Nale is doomed, but the relationship will survive just fine. It's not meant to be "healthy".
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrl View Post
    "They didn't change the alignment system, they just augmented its inherent weaknesses and limitations with a few gaping holes."
    "Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." - G K Chesterton


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