Alignment inheritance

[Zxo]

I know there's probably not enough information in OoTS to answer this, but do you think alignment in OoTSverse is genetic or determined by upbringing (or, third possibility, random, or decided by gods)? When I say genetic, I think of something a bit more complicated than duplicating one of the parents' alignment, but still logical, for example there could be dominant and recessive alignment components (similar to blood type inheritance patterns).

We have the Greenhilt family who are all LG except for one TN child (forgot her name), so the alignment is not always determined by who raised you. Thoughts?

[Thanatosia]

Wow, look at this Big o' can of worms someone left lying on the ground, i wonder what's inside? Lets open it and find out!

[Carry2]

Wow, look at this Big o' can of worms someone left lying on the ground, i wonder what's inside? Lets open it and find out!

There are worms.

[malloyd]

A false dichotomy. Why would you think there is a single, or even predominant cause?

[The Dark Fiddler]

I'd say all of the above, plus "who knows?".

[Mutant Sheep]

Everyone is French, because only French bodies make a good litter box. Space French.
THE CAT GOD DEMANDS IT! CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD!!! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE!!! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!!!
ALL HAIL THE DARK LORD SNUGGLES!!!!!

[Jay R]

It's about choices. As Roy was told, "I don't think my superiors would blink if I kicked your case over to the Neutral Good afterlife, but there's one factor preventing me.

"You're trying.

"You're trying to be Lawful Good.

People forget how crucial it is to keep trying, even if they screw up once now and then."

<snip>

"You, well ... Your record is full of grey spots, but you never stop working at iimproving it.

"That's what's important. To us, anyway."

[faustin]

So, Xykon´s parents were Chaotic Evil mass murderers too?)

[NerfTW]

I think it's a matter of choice, just like in the real world. Your upbringing will affect that, but it can change. Julia might not stay True Neutral. (I'd imagine that applies to most teenagers in the real world as well)

While alignment is something on their "character sheet", as it were, it's something that can be changed. As Jay R pointed out, the Deva tells Roy that it was his choice to go back and fix his mistake that kept him Lawful Good. If he had chosen to walk away, he'd be making the choice not to be Lawful Good anymore.

[t209]

Look at Elan, the bard, his dad is lawful evil and yet he's chaotic good.

[Menarker]

Well, one could make the opposite point then, saying that Elan embodied the traits and allignment of his mother, rather than his father. Elan was raised by his mother while Nale by the father, thus solidifying that possible argument.

That said, I don't believe allignment is genetic, although there are likely influences from being raised among peers and families of a particular group.

I could also wonder if genetics could behave like recessive or dominant traits akin to a situation of single good alligned character being born and raised in a family otherwise littered with totally evil members.

[MoonCat]

It is your own choice, but the choices of the people around you will affect your choices, just like in real life.

[Zxo]

If it is a choice, when do you make it and what is your status before you make the choice? Roy's little brother was in Celestia even though he seemed too young to be capable of any moral choices.

I do not deny choice, but its scope seems to be limited - a change from CE to LG is unlikely, CE to CN can happen - and something determines what you start from.

BTW Xykon's parents were not CE. SoD spoiler:

Spoiler

Show

They sent a wizard to try to convince Xykon to change his ways and become a hero.

[The Dark Fiddler]

If it is a choice, when do you make it and what is your status before you make the choice?

You make the choice constantly as new circumstances arise, and before you make the choice you're whatever you were up until that point.

Roy's little brother was in Celestia even though he seemed too young to be capable of any moral choices.

I think there was a pretty popular theory that that was because a Lawful Good afterlife wouldn't split up a family like that just because the child died before being able to develop their own alignment.

[MoonCat]

If it is a choice, when do you make it and what is your status before you make the choice? Roy's little brother was in Celestia even though he seemed too young to be capable of any moral choices.

I do not deny choice, but its scope seems to be limited - a change from CE to LG is unlikely, CE to CN can happen - and something determines what you start from.

BTW Xykon's parents were not CE. SoD spoiler:

Spoiler

Show

They sent a wizard to try to convince Xykon to change his ways and become a hero.

Exactly! Your argument is saying choice! If your entire nature is CE, it would be hard to become LG, whereas CN is much closer to your heart.

And Xykon was evil on his own, not inherited from his parents at all.

[faustin]

BTW Xykon's parents were not CE. SoD spoiler:

And Xykon was evil on his own, not inherited from his parents at all.

Yeah... I was only using sarcasm, guys

[MoonCat]

Yeah... I was only using sarcasm, guys

I didn't even see your post actually.

[137beth]

The player determines it upon character creation, and *this post has been edited for metagaming!*

Oh, and Eugine is not LG...for that matter neither is Julia.

[ORione]

The player determines it upon character creation, and *this post has been edited for metagaming!*

Oh, and Eugine is not LG...for that matter neither is Julia.

Julia isn't, but where does it say that Eugene isn't?

[Ramien]

The player determines it upon character creation, and *this post has been edited for metagaming!*

Oh, and Eugine is not LG...for that matter neither is Julia.

Eugene is/was lawful something, most likely good. It's well established that he is lawful, as evidenced by his conversation with Roy when he first told him about Xykon. He also found himself in the part of the afterlife "Where people of Good alignment come to be judged" and he is expecting to make it up to the mountain with the rest of the LG populace eventually.

Whether or not his alignment hasn't slipped at some point during his time in the fuffy clouds is a valid concern, however.

[FujinAkari]

Eugene is/was lawful something, most likely good. It's well established that he is lawful, as evidenced by his conversation with Roy when he first told him about Xykon. He also found himself in the part of the afterlife "Where people of Good alignment come to be judged" and he is expecting to make it up to the mountain with the rest of the LG populace eventually.

He got into the LG afterlife multiple times... the fact that he was LG is pretty much indisputable.

[factotum]

Doesn't this entire argument boil down to the real-world "nature versus nurture" argument? I don't think even the scientists who study this sort of thing can say for sure one way or the other, so I doubt we'll do any better! We also don't have a great deal of evidence to work from here, since the number of situations where we know a parent *and* their child's alignment in OotS are actually quite few--the Greenhilts and Tarquin/Nale/Elan are pretty much it, in fact.

Just looking at those ones it's inconsistent. Everyone in the Greenhilt family is LG apart from Julia, who's True Neutral. Tarquin and Nale are Lawful Evil, Elan and his mother are Chaotic Good. No consistency there to base any sort of good answer on.

[Ramien]

Well, there are also the drow. We know they're all Chaotic good, but they all have evil kin, right?

[Kish]

He got into the LG afterlife multiple times... the fact that he was LG is pretty much indisputable.

Very much not. He never got into the actual afterlife; that's what he's so mad about. He got to the cloud where Roy got before Roy had his hearing, even.

[Bleak Ink]

I believe as you get older, it is choice, and furthermore I think vast contributing factors to your alignment are the situations you're exposed to. Dirt farmers never given the opportunity to choose which person to save or whether or not to throw puppies off a Cliff of Doom probably wouldn't be at the same risk of radically swinging their alignment around in one choice as those who do have that situation play out for them. Extreme situations bring out the true character, and all that.

Yeah... I was only using sarcasm, guys

I didn't even see your post actually.

*applauds*

[Ramien]

Very much not. He never got into the actual afterlife; that's what he's so mad about. He got to the cloud where Roy got before Roy had his hearing, even.

It is pretty good supporting evidence, though, considering the cloud is for Good-aligned characters. My personal feelings are that he was LG in life, although since his death, his moral and ethical compasses have gone off by a few points. Witness his approval of V's actions after the soul splice - "The ends justify the means" is no part of the LG ethos.

[Kish]

It is pretty good supporting evidence, though, considering the cloud is for Good-aligned characters.

It's good evidence that his declared alignment in life was Lawful Good. That he would have gotten through his interview...questionable.

[The Dark Fiddler]

It is pretty good supporting evidence, though, considering the cloud is for Good-aligned characters.

He hasn't submitted himself to the judgment yet, so he may be found non-Good and be forced into a different afterlife.

[Zxo]

Doesn't this entire argument boil down to the real-world "nature versus nurture" argument?

OoTS, or any D&D based universe, does not work like the real world, so it's a totally separate discussion.

[ORione]

OoTS, or any D&D based universe, does not work like the real world, so it's a totally separate discussion.

Well, then, alignment is determined by what the players (for PCs) or DM (for NPCs) decide.