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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    From "The Guardian" in the UK...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...o-end-his-life

    I hope he won't be going through for a long time. And that, before then, something will have come up that will allow Alzheimer to be stopped or reversed. I truly hope so, forlorn hope that it is.
    JoseB

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Actually, I'm happy for him that he's approaching his own death the way he wants to. A little saddened perhaps because he can't do it in his home country like he wanted to.

    I hadn't heard of the documentary before this. It sounds like something really worth checking out.
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Evrine View Post
    Actually, I'm happy for him that he's approaching his own death the way he wants to. A little saddened perhaps because he can't do it in his home country like he wanted to.

    I hadn't heard of the documentary before this. It sounds like something really worth checking out.
    I am grieved and disappointed. He is one of my all-time favorite authors, and he has much yet to give the world.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Ugh. He shouldn't have chosen Dignitas. Those people have a seriously, seriously bad reputation.
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    Asta Kask's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Ugh. He shouldn't have chosen Dignitas. Those people have a seriously, seriously bad reputation.
    I have met people with advanced Alzheimer's and I can understand why he'd want to spare his loved one that. It's not a pretty way to go...

    I guess we'll always have Ankh-Morpork.
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    Oooh, and that's a bad miss.

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Noooooooooooo!

    I really do hope they find the cure for Alzheimer's. Fast.

    @Eldan: They...they aren't killing people who don't want to die, do they?

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Uhm. Anyone read the article?

    According to Dignitas, 70% of people who sign the forms do not go through with taking their own lives.
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    AT, I esteem you above all other men now.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    He hasn't said that he's about to kill himself, just that he's getting the paperwork out of the way, so that when his condition declines to the point where existence is no longer tenable, he can make that decision.
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll View Post
    Uhm. Anyone read the article?
    It doesn't matter much whether he chooses to die in the end. Advanced Alzheimer's is as good as death.
    Imagine talking to someone who doesn't recognize you, and only remembers their early childhood, if anything at all. Someone who stares at the TV without noticing that someone switched it off.
    It is very sad.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2011-06-13 at 09:19 AM.

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    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Going to watch that tonight. I'll probably bawl the whole way through and disturb my housemates.

    Good luck to him.

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    It doesn't matter much whether he chooses to die in the end. Advanced Alzheimer's is as good as death.
    Imagine talking to someone who doesn't recognize you, and only remembers their early childhood, if anything at all. Someone who stares at the TV without noticing that someone switched it off.
    It is very sad.
    I know what it's like. My grandma had it. This is why I can't understand why people are upset with his decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonprime View Post
    AT, I esteem you above all other men now.

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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    It doesn't matter much whether he chooses to die in the end. Advanced Alzheimer's is as good as death.
    Imagine talking to someone who doesn't recognize you, and only remembers their early childhood, if anything at all. Someone who stares at the TV without noticing that someone switched it off.
    It is very sad.
    Yes. My grandmother has it. She doesn't recognize people at all and needs to be helped for rooms and meals. I'm told that when the caregivers move her from her bed to the meal table, she eats. Then when they move her back, she just stays where she is until they move her again. It's not an existence I would wish on anyone.

    Be that as it may, my grandmother made it very clear when she was still in possession of her senses that she did not want her end hastened in any way and we will respect her wishes. So we'll make her as comfortable as we can and look for ways to help her to engage with the world around her. All the time hoping that medicine will come up with a cure before her body fails altogether of course.

    Ugh. He shouldn't have chosen Dignitas. Those people have a seriously, seriously bad reputation.
    Are you objecting to assisted suicide in principle, or are you objecting specifically to the choice of Dignitas? If the second ... what's this about their reputation? First I've heard of that. But then, I don't live in Switzerland so to me they're just a name.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2011-06-13 at 09:33 AM.

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    Asta Kask's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    In the end they're essentially automatons. It's like a chronic absence seizure - they're awake and alert but not conscious.
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    Oooh, and that's a bad miss.

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll View Post
    I know what it's like. My grandma had it. This is why I can't understand why people are upset with his decision.
    I'm not upset with his decision. He has every right to it. I'm upset with the fact my favourite author has Alzheimer's and can't be cured. And the fact that it already has become so bad he makes plans to end his life.
    And I am quite sure that's what every one else thinks.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2011-06-13 at 09:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    The documentary in question is on BBC 2 tonight I believe, at around 8pm.

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Deyr fé,
    deyja frćndr,
    deyr sjálfr et sama;
    ek veit einn,
    at aldri deyr:
    dómr um dauđan hvern.


    (Cattle die,
    kinsmen die
    you yourself must die;
    I know one thing
    which never dies:
    the fate of the honored dead.)
    Avatar by CoffeeIncluded

    Oooh, and that's a bad miss.

    “Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Definitely going to watch the documentary. Read an interview with him which was very touching.

    Can completely respect his choice to do this. I'd much rather die before getting some alzheimers-like disease to have a complete hold on me.

    But hey. He's having an awesome life. He wrote zillions of awesome books and had a sword forged out of starmetal. what more could you want?
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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
    Deyr fé,
    deyja frćndr,
    deyr sjálfr et sama;
    ek veit einn,
    at aldri deyr:
    dómr um dauđan hvern.


    (Cattle die,
    kinsmen die
    you yourself must die;
    I know one thing
    which never dies:
    the fate of the honored dead.)
    I feel the verse before that one is more fitting:

    Deyr fé,
    deyja frćndur,
    deyr sjálfur iđ sama.
    En orđstír
    deyr aldregi
    hveim er sér góđan getur.

    (Cattle die,
    kinsmen die
    you yourself must die;
    But reputation
    never dies
    for those that have a good one)
    Last edited by pffh; 2011-06-13 at 10:32 AM.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    This all sucks Terry seems pretty passionate about this issue in general, so at least we can be pretty certain he's sure about his decision, so that's good. Any estimates on how much longer he has?
    Has he released another "I aitn't dead", yet?

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Asta Kask's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    I talked to my mother who is a gero-psychiatrist and she said it's impossible to say how quickly it goes. Might be one year, might be ten.
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    Oooh, and that's a bad miss.

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    ZombyWoof's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    He better donate his brain to science after he passes. A lot can be learned by examining the brains of Alzheimer patients after they've passed but a lot of families are "uncomfortable" with the deceased being examined like that.

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    The guy wants to die before it can set in and ruin his life, I think he'd definitly sign up to have his brain studied, so more people can avoid such a fate.

    I'm going to miss him when he's gone. What I've read of Discworld makes me want to read more and more of it.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    @Eldan: They...they aren't killing people who don't want to die, do they?
    I'm not really sure about how much the forum rules allow me to talk about this, really, but there were a few concerns. Mostly, about the methods they used to help people commit suicide, some of which were described as unpleasant and/or uncertain. Also, about how they handled the remains of the deceased. There was talk of declaring the entire operation illegal.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2011-06-13 at 11:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    And the fact that it already has become so bad he makes plans to end his life.
    I was under the impression that it wasn’t “so bad” yet. Because if it were, he probably wouldn’t be capable of making that decision. As shadow_archmagi said, he’s taking care of the decision-making while he is still able.

    I kinda wonder how he plans on deciding to actually go ahead and end it, though. The objective is likely to choose a time where there will be significant periods of time where he is unable to make a proper decision. Kind of a wooly consent issue, if you ask me.
    The Future just ain’t what it used to be.

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
    In the end they're essentially automatons. It's like a chronic absence seizure - they're awake and alert but not conscious.
    Having had absence seizures when I was younger, that's...just...

    Good on him for taking this decision into his own hands. Can't say I'd do it differently in his position, although I can also understand those who don't.
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    Force's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    I work in an Alzheimer's/Dementia care facility as a caregiver, and I'm glad for him that he's decided to make this decision. As an example, let me offer to you the case of someone I'm going to call Amanda (not her name.)

    Amanda is in her mid-sixties and was diagnosed with Alzheimer's about five years ago, so she's at the mild-to-moderate level. One of our staff members knew her before and has told me that she was an extremely hard-working woman who loved to provide for her family, worked her tail off as a secretary, and enjoyed life to the fullest.

    Now.... if you visit our facility, one can find her wandering the halls, wringing her hands. If you speak to her, she seems to understand what you say and replies-- but she has aphasia, so words don't come out like she wants them to and she knows it. (Someone with aphasia might try to say "I like to take long walks" and really say "I dog to give short fences.") She always asks when her husband John (not his name) or her daughter Mary is going to come-- even if they just came and left five minutes ago.

    Whenever we aren't totally engaged with her, she either wrings her hands more or cries. Often she says things like "John never comes" and talks about how she should just lay down and die because nobody likes her, even if you just spent half an hour talking with her and hugging her and reassuring her. She's incontinent, so she soils herself constantly, and because she can't remember to go to the bathroom (or even necessarily remember what the bathroom is) one of us caregivers must take her... sometimes against her will. Most of us have at least one bruise from trying to keep her clean and healthy.

    Right now, we barely understand what causes Alzheimer's. We can point to what causes the symptoms directly-- buildup of plaques in the brain and tangles of neurons, among other things-- but not what triggers those causes or anything that might slow it down. Heck, we can't even diagnose Alzheimer's except by autopsy or elimination of other forms of dementia. There are medications, but the most they can do is slow the progression for a few months. And Amanda is medically stable-- unless she has a heart attack or jumps out a window, she could easily live for another twenty years apart from her Alzheimer's.

    End-stage is worse. There was another resident we have whom I'll call Lorraine. Lorraine could not talk to you. We're not sure whether or not she could understand you when you talked to her. She would not eat if fed and ate at a glacial pace (one bite every minute or so) on her own. Wouldn't touch protein shakes or the like either, so she was skin and bones. Would walk (wander, more like) and refuse a wheelchair until she broke her hip via a fall, then sat in her wheelchair all day. If you walked in to her room, she would start to scream, and she would try to punch you if you got close-- probably because the only reason we entered her room was to change and bathe her, and even with Roxanol (morphine) it probably hurt like hell. When you look in her eyes, there was nothing there but fear of a world that made no sense and constant pain from her broken hip. If there had been a person living there, she had died a long time ago. Death was a mercy.

    In short, I don't blame Terry. I don't blame him at all.

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    Dvandemon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoseB View Post
    From "The Guardian" in the UK...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...o-end-his-life

    I hope he won't be going through for a long time. And that, before then, something will have come up that will allow Alzheimer to be stopped or reversed. I truly hope so, forlorn hope that it is.
    First thought was, "this topic is so old". I've grown to accept his decision long ago and decided to focus on what he has done, not what he should have been able too, there's nothing changing either one now.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
    Deyr fé,
    deyja frćndr,
    deyr sjálfr et sama;
    ek veit einn,
    at aldri deyr:
    dómr um dauđan hvern.


    (Cattle die,
    kinsmen die
    you yourself must die;
    I know one thing
    which never dies:
    the fate of the honored dead.)
    Quote Originally Posted by pffh View Post
    I feel the verse before that one is more fitting:

    Deyr fé,
    deyja frćndur,
    deyr sjálfur iđ sama.
    En orđstír
    deyr aldregi
    hveim er sér góđan getur.

    (Cattle die,
    kinsmen die
    you yourself must die;
    But reputation
    never dies
    for those that have a good one)
    *cough*
    As CoffeeIncluded recently reminded me in her interview:

    Ozymandias
    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.
    In time, even the inscription will fade.
    Everything dies - even reputation.
    Last edited by ghost_warlock; 2011-06-14 at 01:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    People, he isn't dead yet, cheer up.
    He might live for another 20 years and write 40 more books.


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    Default Re: Agh, I hope this won't happen for a long time... (Pratchett-related)

    I've actually got a copy of The Last Continent I was re-reading open next to me.

    This is depressing, because generally unpleasant things are put from mind, and wished into non-being.

    I do wish we would come up with a cure, but unfortunately I do not have enough concrete medical data to assist in my own way.

    Here's to Discworld, and the dream that was it. May it live on.
    Life is a gamble, roll the dice. If your life is like cards, rig the deck.

    "Boy, sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don'tchya think?" -Jayne
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