[3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

[Tempestfury]

Is there a particular reason you choose to use blue text? I know not everyone use it, but a lot of people in this forum (including me) use blue text to convey sarcasm, so it might throw on some people at first.

Its a habit of mine.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fair enough, but be prepared to have some people consider your post as sarcasm and thus react to that.

[MeeposFire]

Pathfinder really has improved a lot, haven't they?

Well actually this was not made by the guys who made Pathfinder. This was made by another company using the variant rules that are used for Pathfinder. The company that made this class is in my opinion overall better than Paizo but that would certainly be debated by others.

The important bit is that if you think this is an example of Pathfinder is improving then you need to reevaluate because these are made by an outside party.

[Tempestfury]

Details, details.

The and Paizo have both done well upgrading 3.5 to Pathfinder. This is how I would exemplify the psychic upgrades, but for Paizo's stuff, I'll point to the sorcerer's.

[Psyren]

The important bit is that if you think this is an example of Pathfinder is improving then you need to reevaluate because these are made by an outside party.

While it's true that Paizo wasn't involved with making anything in the DSP books, they did make several changes to the system that were beneficial to the DSP crew. For instance, by powering up the racial baseline for PF compared to 3.5, they gave DSP a lot more design space with which to finally fix the psionic races. (Poor Dromites and Blues.) Eliminating XP costs also forced DSP to rebalance those psionic powers that previously had them in very inventive ways.

The Soulknife in particular benefited from PF in two key ways - enhancements overcoming DR, and weapons being used to perform maneuvers (e.g. trip, disarm, reposition and sunder) getting to add the weapon's enhancement to the check. A Soulknife can be one of the best trippers in the game, particularly a Strengthknife or Wisknife.

[Tempestfury]

Well said, well said indeed.

As it is, you'll say on here when you've upgraded the guide with the new materiel from complete Psionic, right?

[Person_Man]

The Soulknife in particular benefited from PF in two key ways - enhancements overcoming DR, and weapons being used to perform maneuvers (e.g. trip, disarm, reposition and sunder) getting to add the weapon's enhancement to the check. A Soulknife can be one of the best trippers in the game, particularly a Strengthknife or Wisknife.

Agreed. For non-PF players who might be reading this, it's also worth reiterating that Size bonuses are only +1 per category in PF, and not +4 per category as they are in 3.5. And bonuses in general are far smaller and more granular in PF. So you can't just use augmented Expansion and call it a day. In this context, a strait +5 weapon enhancement bonus is actually a pretty big thing in PF.

Its a habit of mine.

Just to second what Dusk Eclipse noted, whenever I read blue text that isn't a bolded heading in a Handbook, I read it as sarcasm. So I thought you were trying to make a joke or insult people in all of your previous posts until you responded to Dusk Eclispe's question. And even now that I know that wasn't your intent, I'm having a hard time reading your comments without "hearing" a sarcastic tone of voice in my head. In particular, when you said "Pathfinder really has improved a lot, haven't they?" I honestly still can't tell if you're being facetious or not.

Not that my opinion should matter to you or anyone. Just thought you might want to know that posting in color may make it difficult for some people to read your posts.

[Tempestfury]

Bit of a bump, but when this is updated, as you going to include a Metaforge build?

As, Aegis with Soulknife is a powerful combination... a guy I'm playing with is Aegis 2/Soulknife 1, and is doing 3d6+15 damage with his two-handed sword.

That is a LOT of damage at 3rd level.

[Bom Ferro]

Thanks to the multiclassing feats from Psionics Augmented, Metaforge became alot better.


Sample build:

Soulknife 5/Aegis5/Metaforge 10

Add "Student of the Astral Suit"(+4 Aegis level for Customization points and Customization choices, up to HD) and "Fighter's Blade"(+4 Soulknife levels for enhanced mind blade and bladeskill choices)

And you have the mindblade of a 19th level SK and the Customizations of a 19th level Aegis.

[Tempestfury]

Well, you do lose a lot of Bladeskills... but you only lose 1 customization point compared to a 20 Aegis and no enchantment loss from Soulknife.

[fendrin]

FYI, the cutthroat does not, sadly, get full sneak attack:

A cutthroat of 3rd level gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of half his soulknife level (rounded down) as long as he is maintaining psionic focus. (emphasis added)

So it is:

SK Lvl	Equiv. Rog Lvl	SA Dam (avg)	PS Dam Lost (avg)
3	1	1d6 (3.5)	1d8 (4.5)
6	3	2d6 (7)	1d8 (4.5)
7	3	2d6 (7)	2d8 (9)
10	5	3d6 (10.5)	2d8 (9)
11	5	3d6 (10.5)	3d8 (13.5)
14	7	4d6 (14)	3d8 (13.5)
15	7	4d6 (14)	4d8 (18)
18	9	5d6 (17.5)	4d8 (18)
19	9	5d6 (17.5)	5d8 (22.5)

The per-hit damage favors Psychic Strike, but when you consider that it is much easier to get multiple sneak attacks per round than PS per round, SA is still higher damage.

[Melil13]

I am trying to decide what i want to do with my SK

How does Enchants work when you are using two mind blade?

I have 5 Blade Skill adding to my Enhancment bonus and will be starting a level 20 game.

So then i will make my two mind blades +3 with Linked Striking and Collison.

So (3 +2 +2)*2=14 Correct?

[Ethereal Gears]

Are there any plans on updating this guide to include some info on the currently blank soulbolt? I am curious as to whether a Soulbolt + Gifted Blade archetype combo might be viable and if there're any words of wisdom for me to heed regarding embarking upon such a class concept?

[Tempestfury]

Hopefully the guide will be updated, aling with the newest psychic book.

[Melil13]

Can anyone explain to me how enhancing your blade works for two blades?

Ie at level 12 your max blade is level 3 lowered to 2 for two blades. Now I have 5 enhancement points and they must mirror so

+2 enhancement on both not leaving me enough to do anything with the +1

Mind blade 1 +2
Mind blade 2 +2

1 enhancement unused due to not enough points

Is this correct?

[Feint's End]

Can anyone explain to me how enhancing your blade works for two blades?

Ie at level 12 your max blade is level 3 lowered to 2 for two blades. Now I have 5 enhancement points and they must mirror so

+2 enhancement on both not leaving me enough to do anything with the +1

Mind blade 1 +2
Mind blade 2 +2

1 enhancement unused due to not enough points

Is this correct?

You can split the +5 between both weapons while no weapon can have a higher enhancement bonus than 3 (note that it can still go up to +5 including properties).

For example you could have:
-fire mindblade +1 (overall a +2 weapon)
- mindblade +3 overall a +3 weapn)

Now you could shift the fire to the second weapon without problems making it a +4 weapon (still only has an enhancement of +3 which is the limit .... don't forget).


Note 2 things though:
-at that level you should have either the full enhancement blade skill or the mind daggers bladeskill so BOTH weapons enjoy the full bonus (meaning both can have a bonus of +5 each)

-at level 12 you should pick the improved enhancement bladeskill so your overall bonus per weapon increases by 1 (which can also be used to increase the enhancement bonus though the maximum enhancement bonus can not go higher than 5)

If you have both bladeskill you will have:
2 weapons with +6 each (of which a maximum of 4 can be enhancement bonus and the other points can be spent to add properties to the weapons)

For example you could have the following setup:
Weapon 1: corrosive (+1 property) fire (+1 property) collision (+2 property) mindblade +2 (enh.) .... overall summing up to a +6 weapon
Weapon 2: holy (+2 property) mindblade (+4 enhancement .... which is the maximum at that level) .... overall also summing up to +6



Hope that helped. If you need more explanations feel free to ask more

Edit: I was wrong on the first part .... but it shouldn't be relevant with the improved enhancement and full enhancement bladeskills

[Slithery D]

Can anyone explain to me how enhancing your blade works for two blades?

Ie at level 12 your max blade is level 3 lowered to 2 for two blades. Now I have 5 enhancement points and they must mirror so

+2 enhancement on both not leaving me enough to do anything with the +1

Mind blade 1 +2
Mind blade 2 +2

1 enhancement unused due to not enough points

Is this correct?

At level 12 your single blade form can have a total of 5 points of enhancement, but with a max Enhancement Bonus of +3. So you can have a +3 blade with another two points of special weapon abilities (e.g. keen) or you can have a +1 blade with four points of special weapon abilities.

Unless you have the blade skill that eliminates it, splitting your blade into two reduces your Enhancement Bonus by one on both blades. So you need to set your blade to +2 or +3 enhacement, plus special weapon abilities adding up to 5 total. But when you split it you'll have only a +1 or +2 enhacement, plus the special abilities as normal.

[Melil13]

Ok i am still confused.

+2 to enhancement and then
+2 for linked striking

For a total of 4 enhancement used
And then applying that to both blades


I thought you split the pool between the two blades

Spending +2 on one blade
Then +2 on the other blade

For a total of +4 enhancement bonus used

[Feint's End]

Ok i am still confused.

+2 to enhancement and then
+2 for linked striking

For a total of 4 enhancement used
And then applying that to both blades


I thought you split the pool between the two blades

Spending +2 on one blade
Then +2 on the other blade

For a total of +4 enhancement bonus used

OK it seems like you don't understand the basics so let's start here:

When you look at the soulknife-chart there are 2 separat things to track.
1.)mindblade maximum enhancement bonus (found on the right side): this describes how much of the enhanced mindblade class feature can be spent on the enhancement bonus of your weapon (for each point in enhancement bonus your to hit and dmg when using the weapon increase by 1).
Note that you always have to have at least an enhancement bonus of +1 on your weapon so it can hold other properties

2.)enhanced mindblade: this basically says how "psionic" your mindblade is. This is the sum of points you can overall spend to enhance your mindblade. It is also the sum of enhancement bonus (which is limited by above point) + properties.

you can find the cost for different properties at the chart

Let's take an example:
Let's say we are level 9. We have enhanced mindblade +4 (so the sum of enhancement bonus and properties can not be higher than that) and a maximum enhancement bonus of +3 (meaning we cannot spend more than 3 of the 4 points on the enhancement bonus of the weapon -> we have to spend at least one point in properties)

Possible combinations (depending on how you split the properties and enhancement bonus:
Mindblade +3 / +1 property
Mindblade +2 / +1 property / +1 property
Mindblade +2 / +2 property
Mindblade +1 / +2 property / +1 property
Mindblade +1 / +3 property
Mindblade +1 / +1 property / +1 property / +1 property

This is how the class essentially work. Not let's assume you split your mindblade into more than one weapon. Let's look under enhanced mindblade and ... "If shaped into more than one item then decrease the overall enhancement bonus by 1; both weapons have to have the same enhancements and properties" (shortened by me)

Ok so let's look at the example from before. While the maximum enhancement stays at +3 your enhanced mindblade classfeature is reduced to +3 too (before it was 4 - 1 from shaping more than one mindblade).

Now your options are somewhat weaker compared to before:
2x (mindblade +3)
2x (mindblade +2 / +1 property)
2x (mindblade +1 / +2 property)
2× (mindblade +1 / +1 property /+1 property)

Hope that clears things up.
HOWEVER you can avoid the lower enhanced mindblade feature in one of 2 ways:

1. Take the "Full Enhancement" bladeskill. Basically you don't get a penalty anymore when shaping your mindblade into more than one weapon.
For example if you wield a two handed mindblade (mindblade +3 / +1 property) and you change to two weapons they will both also be (mindblade +3 / +1 property)

2. Take the "Mind Daggers" bladeskill. Mind Daggers are also two weapons but deal slightly less damage for higher throw range. Also you can swap between those and your other mindblade forms (like onehanded) as a free action even during a full attack (exception is the two.handed mindblade which still takes longer).
The real draw is that both daggers have the configuration of your regular mindblade meaning that they also do not suffer from the -1 reduction.
If you for example have a one handed mindblade with the following configuration ( mindblade +2 / +2 property) and you swap to mind daggers they both also will have a configuration of ( mindblade +2 / +2 property)

Quite neat hmm?

Now let's look at your original question. I assume now you did take the full enhancement bladeskill so the blades have the same configuration as your other forms.

I also assume you took the "Improved Enhancement" bladeskill at level 12 because it is a flat buff and every soulknife should have it.

So enhanced mindblade is (*looks at the class features) +5 at that level which increases by 1 through improved enhancement = +6 ( so the sum of your enhancement and properties can not be higher than 6)

Maximal enhancement bonus is (*looks at the chart) +4 at that level which also increases by 1 through improved enhancement = +5 ( maximum amount of your enhanced mindblade feature you may spend on the enhancement bonus itself)

Now some examples (not doing all this time because there are tons of possibilities):
2x ( mindblade +5 / +1 property)
2× ( mindblade +4 / +2 property)
.......
........
...........
2x ( mindblade +1 / +5 property)

So for example if you want to have the most enhancement bonus possible you would have 2 weapons with +5 to both hit and dmg and a property of your choice which has a value of +1


Hope I could help. I couldn't think of another way to make it more detailed

[Melil13]

That totally clears it up for me thank you. I ended up spending half my blade skills to increase my enhancement and split it b/w the blades. Now I don't have to do that lol I can take cool blade skills again

[Feint's End]

That totally clears it up for me thank you. I ended up spending half my blade skills to increase my enhancement and split it b/w the blades. Now I don't have to do that lol I can take cool blade skills again

You're welcome. Note that Improved Enhancement (the only bladeskill that really increases your bonus AFAIK) as all the other bladeskills can only be taken once. (some can be taken more than once but then those have some indication)
It makes very much sense since this way you get to a +10 weapon preepic (+9 standard from levels)

[Slithery D]

You're welcome. Note that Improved Enhancement (the only bladeskill that really increases your bonus AFAIK) as all the other bladeskills can only be taken once. (some can be taken more than once but then those have some indication)
It makes very much sense since this way you get to a +10 weapon preepic (+9 standard from levels)

I've always wondered if RAW can be argued to let you take a Crystal Hilt +3 to get +13 total bonus. Otherwise your Hilt becomes wasted at higher levels.

[Melil13]

Or linked striking? Increases ur enhancement by 2 as well

[Feint's End]

I've always wondered if RAW can be argued to let you take a Crystal Hilt +3 to get +13 total bonus. Otherwise your Hilt becomes wasted at higher levels.

yes you can become a +13 bonus however your maximum enhancement bonus ist still +5 ... so you could have +5 enhancement and +8 worth of properties. Of course there are other combinations that work as long as your enhancement bonus doesn't go over 5.

Or linked striking? Increases ur enhancement by 2 as well

also not a bad idea but still cannot increase your enhancement bonus beyond 5. However there are some nice things you can do if you don't mind your first attacks being somewhat weaker

lets look at level 20. You have +10 from levels and improved enhancement and +3 from crystal hilt:

put +3 in enhancement
put +2 in linked striking
put +8 in properties as desired (collision is a good one especially if you have a good crit range)

disadvantage over putting +5 in enhancement: first attack hits a little less precisely
advantage over putting +5 in enhancement: after first attack your attacks deal 2d6 more damage compared to above option. So overall more viable if you have decently strong enemies (actually all that die through more than 2 hits)

[Slithery D]

also not a bad idea but still cannot increase your enhancement bonus beyond 5. However there are some nice things you can do if you don't mind your first attacks being somewhat weaker

lets look at level 20. You have +10 from levels and improved enhancement and +3 from crystal hilt:

put +3 in enhancement
put +2 in linked striking
put +8 in properties as desired (collision is a good one especially if you have a good crit range)

disadvantage over putting +5 in enhancement: first attack hits a little less precisely
advantage over putting +5 in enhancement: after first attack your attacks deal 2d6 more damage compared to above option. So overall more viable if you have decently strong enemies (actually all that die through more than 2 hits)

On the Paizo forums a few weeks ago I found some convincing developer (Jacobs) talk that the Bane quality actually can increase your enhancement bonus over 5, so linked striking should, too.

[deuxhero]

Focused Offense lacks any clause stating there's no 1.5x wisdom damage when 2 handing (like Agile or Deadly Agility) so I assume it does. Ever been officially stated?

The question is simply whether you prefer being a pseudo-psywar/tracking a daily resource like PP or not; some folks roll a class like Soulknife specifically to get away from things like that. T4 is still quite playable, just narrower in scope.

And when War Soul is out, that goes away as a reason for keeping Psychic Strike

[Feint's End]

On the Paizo forums a few weeks ago I found some convincing developer (Jacobs) talk that the Bane quality actually can increase your enhancement bonus over 5, so linked striking should, too.

My bad ... temporary increases can indeed lift the limit above 5 so linked should work. You can have a +5 linked weapon preepic

Focused Offense lacks any clause stating there's no 1.5x wisdom damage when 2 handing (like Agile or Deadly Agility) so I assume it does. Ever been officially stated?

I couldn't find anything officially stated ... however there is something to consider. Agile has a very similar text to guided in that it replaces the str with dex/wis respectively. I think it is intended to be flat no matter how you use the weapon similar to guided.

By very strict RAW the bladeskill says you add your wisdom modifier instead of your str to hit and damage.
Multiplication upon using a two handed weapon still only applies to str since you this is not part of the deal.
Agile and Guided for example do not say this because it's a special case but to avoid confusion (my theory)

To sum it up. The multiplication on strength (both for two handed weapons and two single weapons) are exclusive to strength. Other boni are flat as long as they don't say otherwise. Agile for example says as part of the description that while it gets added to two handed weapons regulary (1=1) it still gets halfed on secondary weapons (which is a special case). Guided doesn't say anything until after the main part of the text (to clarify for those who do not know how this should be applied but it is not something exclusive to the property but rather just a clarification of the general rules).

[Psyren]

As written, Focused Offense simply slots in and replaces Str in damage calculations. So 1.5 * (Str) would become 1.5 *(Wis) and likewise 0.5.

I can ask Jeremy to be sure but I'm fairly confident this was intended.

[Feint's End]

As written, Focused Offense simply slots in and replaces Str in damage calculations. So 1.5 * (Str) would become 1.5 *(Wis) and likewise 0.5.

I can ask Jeremy to be sure but I'm fairly confident this was intended.

Hmmm I see. Would be great if you could ask him just so we are sure.

[Drelua]

I have a couple questions about the Mind Daggers blade skill, if someone wouldn't mind clearing it up a bit.

First, it says I can switch between my normal form and the mind daggers form as a free action even during a full attack. Does this mean I could attack with the one-handed form in my main hand, switch to daggers for my off-hand attack, then switch back to my one-handed form for my next main hand attack? That feels cheesy somehow, but I don't see why it wouldn't work according to the RAW of it.

I was also wondering if this lets me make a full attack by throwing mind daggers, in the same way as the multiple throw skill. The only real reason I suspect it might not be able to do these things is because of other blade skills, like multiple throw and full enhancement, being completely invalidated by mind daggers, which basically does what both of them do and more at the small cost of a 1 or 2 points of damage. That doesn't really seem balanced to me, which makes me suspect I might be missing something.