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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Drelua View Post
    I have a couple questions about the Mind Daggers blade skill, if someone wouldn't mind clearing it up a bit.

    First, it says I can switch between my normal form and the mind daggers form as a free action even during a full attack. Does this mean I could attack with the one-handed form in my main hand, switch to daggers for my off-hand attack, then switch back to my one-handed form for my next main hand attack? That feels cheesy somehow, but I don't see why it wouldn't work according to the RAW of it.
    Yes you could by RAW. Make sure your DM is ok with it though

    I was also wondering if this lets me make a full attack by throwing mind daggers, in the same way as the multiple throw skill. The only real reason I suspect it might not be able to do these things is because of other blade skills, like multiple throw and full enhancement, being completely invalidated by mind daggers, which basically does what both of them do and more at the small cost of a 1 or 2 points of damage. That doesn't really seem balanced to me, which makes me suspect I might be missing something.
    This is a little more tricky. Essentially they work the same as 2 regular mindblades (except for the full enhancement) so what makes you think you could full attack throw them? You probably could make your point for swapping to mind daggers then throw one of them and swap back to a one handed weapon (even though one of the mind daggers was thrown) but nothing indicates you can multiple throw with them.

    About them replacing full enhancement. This is not really that unbalanced. It's basically if you want slightly more damage (1 average) or slightly more throwing range (30 instead of 20). Oh and you can swap as a free action with mind daggers but since you will most likely just swap between one handed and mind daggers it's not really that big of a deal. I even dare to say that most players won't swap at all.
    After level 16ish it probably is better to have the minddaggers because 1 average dmg is basically nothing but more reach on throws is really nice.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Guess it doesn't give 1.5


    Pair of interesting quirks for the Deadly Fist I noticed though
    1: You get a blade skill at first level, so you can take extra blade skill at first level (potentially even twice)
    2: Amulet of Mighty Fist stacks, as does Crystal Gauntlets. You can get a +18 equivalent weapon (!), but you are stuck with a 1d3 weapon (unless PoW is open then you can grab Greater Unarmed Strike).

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    Guess it doesn't give 1.5


    Pair of interesting quirks for the Deadly Fist I noticed though
    1: You get a blade skill at first level, so you can take extra blade skill at first level (potentially even twice)
    2: Amulet of Mighty Fist stacks, as does Crystal Gauntlets. You can get a +18 equivalent weapon (!), but you are stuck with a 1d3 weapon (unless PoW is open then you can grab Greater Unarmed Strike).
    Thank you for asking. That is exactly what I thought the bladeskill was supposed to mean but I guess the wording was quite bad (they could have fixed more things in UP to be quite frank with you).

    @2: Small nitpick ... it is a d6 weapon by default (if you are medium that is). Which would be replaced by GUS damage if higher. Otherwise this is a good idea. Pretty devastating since Deadly Fist is a strong Archetype to begin with (especially as a wis knife with Gifted Blade and/or a contemplative dip and going Dark Tempest afterwards).

    edit: Just realised that Feral Heart should also be able to reach +18 (depending if you have a focus item for the claws). Feral Heart has the issue of scaling really bad though. You might have to go Contemplative/Dark Tempest and pick up some extra natural attacks via powers to keep up. Feral Transformation is nice though.
    Last edited by Feint's End; 2014-07-05 at 05:42 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Really is a pity that the Crystal Focus Items are so expensive, but good find on those stacking. I've been experimenting with a Deadly Fist splash in a couple of other builds, most of which completely dump Strength, and that extra bonus adds up QUICK.
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  5. - Top - End - #125

    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Imagine Deadly Fist in a Gestalt with Monk...

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    Really is a pity that the Crystal Focus Items are so expensive, but good find on those stacking.
    Expensive? Considering that they basically can increase weapons preepic to 13 they are actually really, really cheap.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Thanks, that clears that up. I guess you could still make four ranged attacks in a round if you started your turn with two weapons, threw them, then quick drawed a couple more and threw them, but of course you could already do that without mind daggers. I guess I figured that as long as you had one dagger you could reform your mind blade into it's one-handed shape and back into daggers, but I guess needing both daggers to switch back makes more sense.

    Sorry, I've just got a game starting before too long where I'll be playing a Soulknife with a very experienced, high optimization group that lets a lot of cheese work so long as it's RAW, and I want to know what I'll be able to get away with.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Drelua View Post
    Thanks, that clears that up. I guess you could still make four ranged attacks in a round if you started your turn with two weapons, threw them, then quick drawed a couple more and threw them, but of course you could already do that without mind daggers. I guess I figured that as long as you had one dagger you could reform your mind blade into it's one-handed shape and back into daggers, but I guess needing both daggers to switch back makes more sense.

    Sorry, I've just got a game starting before too long where I'll be playing a Soulknife with a very experienced, high optimization group that lets a lot of cheese work so long as it's RAW, and I want to know what I'll be able to get away with.
    Well to be fair there is no exact RAW on this since there is no real ruling what happens if you throw one of your two mind blades and then swap back to 1 mindblade and then back to the two blades. Are there 2 again? I would say yes to the swapping but no to them being 2 again since it wouldn't make a lot of sense.
    If there are 2 again then of course you could full attack throw (though it would look quite funky with the swapping weapons the whole time) but I don't think this is RAI and since there is no RAW supporting it I'd just stay away from it (cheese is after all still using RAW).

    So essentially there is no RAW answer but I also doubt that it would make sense. Maybe you can talk your dm into it but this would probably not be cheesy ... rather just make no sense (but who am I to judge .... its freaking mindblades)

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    I also have a question about Strength/Wisdom and Focused Offense, namely in regard to Dragon Ferocity.

    I'm putting together a Master of many Styles (Looking mostly at Dragon and Mantis)/Deadly fist. Dragon Ferocity gives you a damage bonus equal to half your strength modifier, does Focused offense change that to half your wisdom?

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Okay so, since Focused Offense keeps coming up in this thread, I dug up a rules quote.

    "Focused Offence replaces Str, so 1,5 times with 2handed weapon, 0,5 times with offhand weapon."

    Also, while we're on the subject, Focused Offense lets you use Wis to CMB instead of Str. (CMB rolls are attack rolls.)

    Please apply the above to any corner cases you may come across. And yes, I am updating the guide (I'm actually working on several at the moment.)
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    No it wouldn't since the feat doesn't interact with the standard to hit / dmg bonus of strength which gets replaced by wisdom.

    Also note that this feat seems to intend to make unarmed strikes to 2 handed weapons (at least for strength purposes) and this is something that doesn't exist when using focused offense (same bonus on two handed weapons as on one handed weapons).

    In conclusion no ... dragonstyle would still give you half your str bonus on unarmed strikes

  12. - Top - End - #132

    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    I think I'll take the ruling link provided by the handbook creator.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempestfury View Post
    I think I'll take the ruling link provided by the handbook creator.
    Doesn't change the fact that by RAW it wouldn't let you apply 1.5 times your wis to unarmed attacks since dragon style specifically gives you a bonus to unarmed strikes which is equal to half your strength modifier.

    So you'd have 1 time your wisdom modifier and 1/2- time your strength modifier to unarmed dmg.

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Okay so, since Focused Offense keeps coming up in this thread, I dug up a rules quote.

    "Focused Offence replaces Str, so 1,5 times with 2handed weapon, 0,5 times with offhand weapon."

    Also, while we're on the subject, Focused Offense lets you use Wis to CMB instead of Str. (CMB rolls are attack rolls.)

    Please apply the above to any corner cases you may come across. And yes, I am updating the guide (I'm actually working on several at the moment.)
    How comes then that deuxhero asked too and got told that it works like deadly agility? Does not get multiplied upon use with a 2 handed weapon or a second weapon.

    I heard 2 conflicting things from 2 people who should know now (maybe one of them is not as qualified as the other one so that might be the case) so it would be nice if we could find an answer we can agree upon to be the more accurate.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Anytime you see "Strength modifier" in something that this might apply to, replace it with "Wisdom modifier." Whether that's half or 1.0 or 1.5, you just do that, but with Wis.

    I have no clue what Deadly Agility is, is that from Path of War? You may need to talk with Gareth about that one.
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  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Anytime you see "Strength modifier" in something that this might apply to, replace it with "Wisdom modifier." Whether that's half or 1.0 or 1.5, you just do that, but with Wis.

    I have no clue what Deadly Agility is, is that from Path of War? You may need to talk with Gareth about that one.
    Yes it is. It essentially let's you apply your dex mod instead of your str mod to dmg with finesse able weapons. It doesn't get multiplied upon using a two handed weapon but also doesn't get halfed on offhand weapons when TWF.

    The answer wasn't given by Lord Gareth though but by another person (seems like one of the designers to me). Know what? I'll write pm deuxhero and ask him about the source and if we could get some kind of statement. Hopefully it will bring some light into this matter.

  17. - Top - End - #137

    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Anyone know when Path of War is coming out?

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempestfury View Post
    Anyone know when Path of War is coming out?
    3 classes are out already and a lot of feats with them so deadly agility is already "third party official".
    Last edited by Feint's End; 2014-07-06 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Feint's End View Post
    3 classes are out already and a lot of feats with them so deadly agility is already "third party official".
    Really? Huh. Are they up in the SRD, or do I have to buy it to access it?

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Well, until I hear from Jeremy/Andreas I'm sticking with what they wrote in the quotes I provided. It's just simpler this way imo.

    PoW may do things differently but I was honestly never interested in it to begin with.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempestfury View Post
    Really? Huh. Are they up in the SRD, or do I have to buy it to access it?
    No not yet but you can buy a subscription. This way you can get new material as soon as it is out.

    Alternatively you can just buy one of the classes (about 5 dollar). In the class document they added all the feats currently out.
    But getting it for free now isn't possible. I mean you can look at the playtest documents if you find them and use them because deadly agility didn't change as far as I know.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    I'm going to propose Psyren's reading to my GM, for now.

    It's also worth noting that Deadly agility carries a specific rider about 2-h and off-hand damage, whereas Focused Offense does not.

    I'm also pondering whether to dip Master of Many Styles for 2 or three levels. 2 gets me more Gifted Blade/Deadly Fist, but with a Monk's Robe, the third level gets me over a breakpoint for a bigger UAS die and monk AC bonus, as well as still mind (Which I plan on trading out for prayerful meditation from 3.5) and fast movement.

    Edit: Can't believe that I forgot to say Thank you for this amazing guide! u.u
    Last edited by Sayt; 2014-07-06 at 02:19 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Just wanted to hop in here and say that this guide really seems to be coming out very nicely. Can't wait until you get around to the feats since I really don't know jack about Psionics and think this could be a really awesome Ravenloft character concept.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Hi

    I've been using your guide on and off for build suggestions for the past two months

    Is there a chance you'll return to this project

    if not is there a chance I could get some build advice, I fear I'm spreading my strength knife too thin.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    It's unfortunately very far down my priority list, there are other handbooks I'm more interested in now, plus there is another book in the works that would add even more options to the Soulknife that I'd have to comb through. If anyone else wants to do a Soulknife handbook they're welcome to (I gave several folks permission to build on mine via PM but nothing seems to have come of it yet) but my hands are full just with the first-party Paizo material getting churned out, never mind everything else.
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Damn, yours was the best Soulknife handbook that I could readily find, and while I was personally going to wait for Psionics Augmented: Soulknife to get published before asking, I was really looking forward to this handbook being updated to include all the new content.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehangel View Post
    Damn, yours was the best Soulknife handbook that I could readily find, and while I was personally going to wait for Psionics Augmented: Soulknife to get published before asking, I was really looking forward to this handbook being updated to include all the new content.
    It will be - eventually. And thank you!
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    What does the guide need most? Feats and Soulbolt analysis?
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Whatever folks decide is missing most. I haven't even read it in months.
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  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Whatever folks decide is missing most. I haven't even read it in months.
    There are quite a bit of code errors that could be updated, but for the most part I want to see the following:

    o The new content of Psionics Augmented: Soulknife (when it comes out)
    o Three spoiler boxes for STR-Knifes, DEX-Knifes, and WIS-Knifes summarizing archetypes and bladeskills that best support them.

    Again, most of this has to wait for when the book is actually published.

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