Magic the Gathering X: Deal X damage to target thread.

[Bucky]

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Unless you get some counters on Cryptoplasm, it will die when it becomes a copy of Primordial Hydra. If you use The Mimeoplasm you'll have something awesome on your hands.

Oops. Yeah, that's the card I meant.

[Androgeus]

more M12 stuff

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Scrambleverse. most chaotic card after warp world?

[Mystic Muse]

As a B/G player, I disagree with this sentiment. Vehemently.

As a (Currently) monowhite player who plays casually I disagree with your sentiment vehemently.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[BladeofOblivion]

As a (Currently) monowhite player who plays casually I disagree with your sentiment vehemently.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

What's your opinion on Phyrexian Crusader? It's probably not too far from his opinion on the Mirran One.

[Bucky]

more M12 stuff

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Scrambleverse. most chaotic card after warp world?

Hate it. It could easily take 5 minutes to resolve even in a duel. In a 5-player multiplayer game, you're talking 50+ permanents and 15 minutes.

[Mystic Muse]

What's your opinion on Phyrexian Crusader?

Irrelevant since none of the people I play have it.

I do have several answers for it anyway.

[Androgeus]

Hate it. It could easily take 5 minutes to resolve even in a duel. In a 5-player multiplayer game, you're talking 50+ permanents and 15 minutes.

it does say non-land so that does cut down the number of permanents a bit, but yhea the thing will take way too much time to resolve.

[Maho-Tsukai]

After looking up some stuff on google I found a few post-ban U/B Infect control builds and with that and your advice did some alterations to my own to come up with this..

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Lands:
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Creeping Tar Pits
4x Drowned Catacombs
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Island
5x Swamp

Creatures:
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Blighted Agent

Walkers:
3x Jace Beleren

Sorceries/Instants:
3x Tezzeret's Gambit
3x Despise
2x Duress
4x Preordain
2x Dismember
1x Go for the Throat
2x Virulent Wound

Artifacts:
3x Tumble Magnet

Sideboard:
2x Black Sun's Zenith
1x Despise
2x Duress
2x Corrupted Resolve
4x Mana Leak
2x Go for the Throat
2x Surgical Extraction

Yeah, that's a VERY rough draft and I have only tested it a small bit, so I would like help, mainly with sideboarding though I also want to know what to do to make the main deck better. The sideboard was made with an open/unknown landscape in mind and thus I decided to add mass removal against aggro and some counterspells as I could not figure out what to cut to make room for some main deck counter-power. I also included more GFTTs in the sideboard that can replace the main deck dismembers when facing exarch twin or another deck that has spellskite or uses a lot of artifact creatures. Surgical Extraction also was placed as a defense against twin(remove a combo peice and you've just neutralized their deck's win-con) as well as against decks that run playsets of annoying cards.

Anyway, any ideas on how to make this better?

[IthilanorStPete]

Oops. Yeah, that's the card I meant.

Oh. That makes a LOT more sense. And yeah...that'd be pretty awesome.

[Tokuhara]

Considering the recent ban, and Alex of Deck Construct's prediction of a "Red Summer," how would an "Elesh Norn's White Steel" deck fare in the evolving meta? Here's my rough idea:

It runs similar to a Metalcraft/Tempered Steel deck, but incorporates some "Titain Weenie" staples, such as Elite Vanguard and Sun Titain, with Elesh Norn as almost a "General" to act as a White Pyroclasm. And with one card announced for M12: Quicksilver Amulet, ramp is less of a necessity (Comes in for 4, pay 4 & tap: Put target creture from your hand onto the battlefield). This means a Sun Titain/Elesh Norn turn 5.

Win Conditions: General Beatdown, with Porceline Legionnaire (3pW 3/1 Artifact Creature w/ First Strike) and Mirrian Crusader being the cornerstone "hammers"

Sideboard: Leonine Arbiter, Kor Firewalker, Leyline of Sanctity, etc.

[BladeofOblivion]

Considering the recent ban, and Alex of Deck Construct's prediction of a "Red Summer," how would an "Elesh Norn's White Steel" deck fare in the evolving meta? Here's my rough idea:

It runs similar to a Metalcraft/Tempered Steel deck, but incorporates some "Titain Weenie" staples, such as Elite Vanguard and Sun Titain, with Elesh Norn as almost a "General" to act as a White Pyroclasm. And with one card announced for M12: Quicksilver Amulet, ramp is less of a necessity (Comes in for 4, pay 4 & tap: Put target creture from your hand onto the battlefield). This means a Sun Titain/Elesh Norn turn 5.

Win Conditions: General Beatdown, with Porceline Legionnaire (3pW 3/1 Artifact Creature w/ First Strike) and Mirrian Crusader being the cornerstone "hammers"

Sideboard: Leonine Arbiter, Kor Firewalker, Leyline of Sanctity, etc.

Seems good to me, though I'd recommend Student of Warfare over Elite Vanguard in most cases. Why? Because you shove your spare mana into it at the end of turn, and it can get really big if unanswered.

[Tokuhara]

Seems good to me, though I'd recommend Student of Warfare over Elite Vanguard in most cases. Why? Because you shove your spare mana into it at the end of turn, and it can get really big if unanswered.

I agree, student is better. However, I own 4 Vanguards and no Students

[BladeofOblivion]

I agree, student is better. However, I own 4 Vanguards and no Students

Fair enough. Also, needs more Black Lotus.

[Suedars]

Considering the recent ban, and Alex of Deck Construct's prediction of a "Red Summer," how would an "Elesh Norn's White Steel" deck fare in the evolving meta? Here's my rough idea:

It runs similar to a Metalcraft/Tempered Steel deck, but incorporates some "Titain Weenie" staples, such as Elite Vanguard and Sun Titain, with Elesh Norn as almost a "General" to act as a White Pyroclasm. And with one card announced for M12: Quicksilver Amulet, ramp is less of a necessity (Comes in for 4, pay 4 & tap: Put target creture from your hand onto the battlefield). This means a Sun Titain/Elesh Norn turn 5.

Win Conditions: General Beatdown, with Porceline Legionnaire (3pW 3/1 Artifact Creature w/ First Strike) and Mirrian Crusader being the cornerstone "hammers"

Sideboard: Leonine Arbiter, Kor Firewalker, Leyline of Sanctity, etc.

I don't see where the "Red Summer" is coming from. It's looking like Valakut and Twin are going to be the decks to beat, and I don't see this deck reliably beating either. It doesn't have enough disruption, and can't race them. Leonin Arbiter and Leyline were never really good against Valakut, and White's lack of good instant speed removal makes it terrible vs. Twin.

Also, if you're running Mirran Crusader, Elesh Norn, Sun Titan, Elite Vanguard, and even more non-artifact guys in the board, I don't think you'll be getting enough mileage out of Tempered Steel to make it worth running.

[Quayleman]

to be honest, soul sisters seems to be in a great position post bannings. it was already one of the few non cawblade decks being played before, and it does not lose to splinter twin combo.

how many sideboard slots do you need to beat valakut?

[MammonAzrael]

to be honest, soul sisters seems to be in a great position post bannings. it was already one of the few non cawblade decks being played before, and it does not lose to splinter twin combo.

how many sideboard slots do you need to beat valakut?

Incorrect, it does loose to Exarch/Twin. You gain an arbitrarily high life total, then they can just make as many exarchs as they need. The only way you avoid it is if you can trigger the life combo at instant speed, after they've declared attackers, and then have an answer for the combo so they don't just do it again next turn.

[Suedars]

to be honest, soul sisters seems to be in a great position post bannings. it was already one of the few non cawblade decks being played before, and it does not lose to splinter twin combo.

how many sideboard slots do you need to beat valakut?

In Mono-White? 60 slots so that you can board in an entire deck that doesn't just roll over to Valakut.

[Suedars]

Incorrect, it does loose to Exarch/Twin. You gain an arbitrarily high life total, then they can just make as many exarchs as they need. The only way you avoid it is if you can trigger the life combo at instant speed, after they've declared attackers, and then have an answer for the combo so they don't just do it again next turn.

If your Priest is still out there when they're looking to combo off they can only make exarchs equal to their life-1, otherwise they die to priest.

[Bucky]

The Myr Galvanizer workaround on the Exarch side deserves a bit more attention. The Galvanizer version of the combo is immune to Go for the Throat. It is also resistant to Soul shenannigans; rather than attacking with infinite 1/4s, it attacks with (say) 6 8/8s. The downsides of course are that it's not infinite without help and the Galvanizer doesn't have flash.

[IthilanorStPete]

The Myr Galvanizer workaround on the Exarch side deserves a bit more attention. The Galvanizer version of the combo is immune to Go for the Throat. It is also resistant to Soul shenannigans; rather than attacking with infinite 1/4s, it attacks with (say) 6 8/8s. The downsides of course are that it's not infinite without help and the Galvanizer doesn't have flash.

The fact that it's a three card combo that requires a mana myr (vulnerable and generally bad) makes it most likely unplayable.

[MammonAzrael]

If your Priest is still out there when they're looking to combo off they can only make exarchs equal to their life-1, otherwise they die to priest.

True, it has defenses. Good defenses, and more than many decks. I just wouldn't say immune.

As for the Myr...I suspect their just too vulnerable, and the individual pieces aren't strong enough by themselves.

[Bucky]

The fact that it's a three card combo that requires a mana myr (vulnerable and generally bad) makes it most likely unplayable.

1)It is a supplement to, rather than a replacement for, the Deceiver Exarch combo, for redundancy and dodging specific hate cards.
2)The combo does not need to go infinite to win; it merely needs Twin on a non-summoning-sick Galvanizer and 4+ mana open. Attacking with X X+3/X+3 Galvanizers is usually good enough.

[Suedars]

1)It is a supplement to, rather than a replacement for, the Deceiver Exarch combo, for redundancy and dodging specific hate cards.
2)The combo does not need to go infinite to win; it merely needs Twin on a non-summoning-sick Galvanizer and 4+ mana open. Attacking with X X+3/X+3 Galvanizers is usually good enough.

The 4 mana open is a huge deal, since it means you're either casting it on 8 mana, which is way too slow, or you're passing the turn giving them another chance to kill you, or blow you out with sorcery speed removal.

[Fable Wright]

As a (Currently) monowhite player who plays casually I disagree with your sentiment vehemently.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

The problem with it is the double strike and protection. With the double strike, if you equip it with a sword (of war and peace), it triggers the ability twice, and you need non-green, non-black blockers that have additional restrictions based on what sword is equipped, or take 8+whatever sword shenanigans occur (possibly another 6 life from the 3 cards in your hand, or milling 20 per hit, or discarding two cards, not to mention the bonuses the other player gets) each turn. Phyrexian crusader is less ridiculous, given that it doesn't activate the swords twice, and despite the infect (and equivalently twice the damage on the hit), it's more survivable for the defending player, given that they have more resources after the attack left to deal with the threat.

[Tokuhara]

I don't see where the "Red Summer" is coming from. It's looking like Valakut and Twin are going to be the decks to beat, and I don't see this deck reliably beating either. It doesn't have enough disruption, and can't race them. Leonin Arbiter and Leyline were never really good against Valakut, and White's lack of good instant speed removal makes it terrible vs. Twin.

Also, if you're running Mirran Crusader, Elesh Norn, Sun Titan, Elite Vanguard, and even more non-artifact guys in the board, I don't think you'll be getting enough mileage out of Tempered Steel to make it worth running.

Mostly when you look at what's coming with M12. Furyborn Hellkite, Burn additions, not including what already exisits in Scars Block. Yes, Valakut and Twin are the forefront of the Red Summer, but remember: Neither is "unbeatable." Black stops both cold, White can force Twin to waste counterspells, and even blue or green can out-block the "big 2." Plus, aggro infect can out-damage Valakut in half the time (plague stinger)

In actuality, those mentioned are it. I was also going to drop in Honor of the Pure and Auriok Edgewright instead of Ornithopter (Crap). The goal is to drop all three "Team Buffs" (HotP, Tempered Steel, Elesh Norn) and swing for the win with Porceline Legionnaire (8/6 with First Strike), using Edgewright and Crusader to force chump blocks (4/4 doublestrike & 5/5 doublestrike pro-green & black respectively)

[Mystic Muse]

The problem with it is the double strike and protection. With the double strike, if you equip it with a sword (of war and peace), it triggers the ability twice, and you need non-green, non-black blockers that have additional restrictions based on what sword is equipped, or take 8+whatever sword shenanigans occur (possibly another 6 life from the 3 cards in your hand, or milling 20 per hit, or discarding two cards, not to mention the bonuses the other player gets) each turn. Phyrexian crusader is less ridiculous, given that it doesn't activate the swords twice, and despite the infect (and equivalently twice the damage on the hit), it's more survivable for the defending player, given that they have more resources after the attack left to deal with the threat.

Good point.

Guess it's a good thing I only have one then, and the only equipment in my deck is a single Strata scythe.

[BladeofOblivion]

I don't see where the "Red Summer" is coming from. It's looking like Valakut and Twin are going to be the decks to beat, and I don't see this deck reliably beating either. It doesn't have enough disruption, and can't race them. Leonin Arbiter and Leyline were never really good against Valakut, and White's lack of good instant speed removal makes it terrible vs. Twin.

Also, if you're running Mirran Crusader, Elesh Norn, Sun Titan, Elite Vanguard, and even more non-artifact guys in the board, I don't think you'll be getting enough mileage out of Tempered Steel to make it worth running.

What? White has 2 very solid pieces of instant removal, and I see no reason why you'd need to dedicate more than 8 cards in a deck to that.

Smite
Easy, super cheap removal, as long as you leave one creature untapped. Even your 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn.

Dispatch
As long as you've got 3 Artifacts, this is probably the best removal piece in standard. If not, it still works in a to save you from a Titan or stop DecieverTwin for a turn.

[tgva8889]

Because both of those are god-awful against ExarchTwin, the deck you want to have removal against? If you're thinking of playing those two cards, I'm confused as to why you don't just play Dismember, because it's probably better.

How does White force ExarchTwin to counters things?

I don't know how Blue and Green expect to "out-block" Valakut or ExarchTwin. I also don't know what you mean by "out-block," as blocking the game action does absolutely nothing against either of those two decks.

Is Arbiter not good against Valakut? I didn't know anyone ever played the card, because it was just worse to play it over the cards that let you search your deck for stuff. You really just want the card to stall Valakut to let your Aggro plan take over and outrace them. The problem with it I would see is that Valakut plays Slagstorm and/or Pyroclasm.

On the idea of an amazing Red deck... Lightning Bolt, Incinerate, and Grim Lavamancer is just the tip of the iceberg. Immolating Souleater and the Dragon give you a random fireball out of nowhere, Furnace Scamp is just another Lava Spike, and Goblin Guide is still legal. It's not unbeatable, but it's one of the best Burn decks we've had access to in a while

[HokusSchmokus]

The amazing red deck also needs a playset of Basilisk Collar.
So this is my first post in the forums and I haven't read the other MtG threads but I was wondering if it's just a coincidence that Standard is the only format being talked about.

[tgva8889]

Well, it has been for a while because of the recent bannings. We talked about Commander a little while ago. What format are you looking for?