Magic the Gathering X: Deal X damage to target thread.

[Top_Hat]

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My personal preference would be to use the green stuff over all the artifact ramp (except maybe expedition map, which can search up answers like Phyrexian Tower and Dustbowl) because if somebody plays boardsweepers like Planar Cleansing or Oblivion Stone, you will be glad that they don't hit your manabase. In a BUG deck, I would consider Perilous Forays because it is ramp and a sacrifice outlet. In any green deck I would say that Oracle of Mul Daya is almost an auto-include and you should give it some serious consideration.

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While the Political Puppets deck may have the most expensive singles right now, I think that Chaos Warp and Flutterstorm will fall in value soon after the decks are released. These two cards are worth a lot right now because they have potential applications in Legacy, but I don't see them being good enough to see much play. Since WotC is planning on selling a bunch of these Commander decks I imagine that the price of those rares will drop to something like $5 or $10 soon enough.

If you are looking to get the most value out of your purchase, I would suggest the Black/Blue/Green deck because it seems to have quite a few Commander staples like Solemn Simulacrum(roboJens) and Eternal Witness.

[IthilanorStPete]

Well, you don't need to go overboard, unless you have lots of ways to spend excess mana. 24 is a lot. That said, none of the cards you have listed are expressly bad mana accelerants. It really depends on a lot of things, like your General, your game plan, what kinds of deck manipulation you have available, and what your "curve" looks like. You are playing Blue, which means you should have good card drawing/selection cards, so your mana should be even better than most decks.

As I mentioned a few posts back, this deck's going to be focused even more on big spells than most EDH decks. General will probably be Damia, Sage of Stone.

I suggest cutting the ones vulnerable to artifact destruction, like Spectral Searchlight and the Signets, because they'll probably become collateral damage when you need to drop an Oblivion Stone, and you'll wish you just had lands instead.

That's a good point, especially since I'll probably be playing more sweepers in this deck, especially if I can find a Deed.

Rampant Growth is still awesome, and if you're playing Duals you can always play other, similar cards like Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Skyshroud Claim (which is awesome).

Forgot about those latter two, thanks for reminding me.

I'm not a fan of Dreamstone Hedron or Gilded Lotus in Green decks because they're worse accelerants than most of the Green land-search cards (they're expensive and prone to being destroyed). Since you're playing Blue you also probably don't need the card draw.

Gotcha. Gilded Lotus has been amazing for me in my Jhoira deck, but you have a point about the green cards filling that role.

Expedition Map is good only if you have specific lands you're searching for. On the other hand, if you have specific lands you're searching for, it's the best card ever. I still have to find space in Darien, King of Kjeldor's deck for it.

Oh, that's definitely the plan - in my Jhoira deck, it pretty much just fixes mana or gets Mystifying Maze, which is amazingly useful (Especially against my friend's Kresh deck.) Here...hopefully, I'll have Cabal Coffers/Urborg to fetch, at the very least.

EDIT:

In a BUG deck, I would consider Perilous Forays because it is ramp and a sacrifice outlet. In any green deck I would say that Oracle of Mul Daya is almost an auto-include and you should give it some serious consideration.

Not going to put Perilous Forays in, I won't have enough to sac to it. I mean, a friend of mine had it in a Savra deck and it still wasn't useful enough to stay in. Oracle will almost definitely be in, though.

[tgva8889]

I dunno how good Damia and lots of Big spells will be... It'll be harder to empty your hand. But I'm interested to see what you find out!

[Suedars]

I dunno how good Damia and lots of Big spells will be... It'll be harder to empty your hand. But I'm interested to see what you find out!

Yeah, big mana is fine in Damia, but you want to be casting a ton of cheap efficient spells, not big splashy ones.

[IthilanorStPete]

Well, Damia was just an idea 'cause she seemed more interesting than The Mimeoplasm or Vorosh.

[Penguinizer]

With what I'm building for, I'll go with Mimeoplasm. It seems great with the e-animator-ish theme. It's also helping that I'm adding the ooze combo just in case.

[Silviya]

Well, how is your deck sorted? It's best to sort by card function, so that you can see whether you have, for example, too many counterspells or Wraths or whatnot, rather than just by Creatures and Non-Creature Spells and Lands. From there, it just comes down to making the painful decision to cut cards and going with the flow. It really is the hardest part of the game. It's why I prefer playing fewer colors in EDH, personally. I may be able to provide suggestions if you can provide a list of cards on the chopping block. There are definitely cards you should never ever cut from a list (like Debtor's Knell in BW). Take out the 20 or so of those cards and put up a list of cards you're thinking of cutting and I think some people here can give you a hand.

I currently have my deck sorted into Creatures, Removal, Reanimators, Tutors, Wraths, Other Spells, Planeswalkers, Artifacts and Enchantment, Equipment and Auras, and Land.
I can't really come up with a short list of cards to possibly cut, so I'll just post the entire decklist:

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General:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter

30x Creatures:
Celestial Force
Dread Cacodemon
Souls of the Faultless
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Angel of Despair
Agent of Masks
Orzhov Guildmage
Vampire Nighthawk
Felidar Soveriegn
Chancellor of the Dross
Transcenent Master
Wurmcoil Engine
Twillight Shepherd
Sunblast Angel
Reya Dawnbringer
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Massacre Wurm
Avatar of Woe
Reiver Demon
Royal Assassin
It That Betrays
Stoneforge Mystic
Sanguin Praetor
Butcher of Malakir
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
Batterskull

12x Removal:
Mortify
Unmake
Go for the Throat
Doom Blade
Terror
Hex
Rend Flesh
Eyeblight's Ending
Journey to Nowhere
Seize the Soul
Oblivion Ring
Sword to Plowshares

7x Reanimators:
Grim Harvest
Dread Return
Rise From the Grave
Zombify
Reanimate
Stir the Grave
Beacon of Unrest
Morbid Plunder

5x Tutors:
Diabolic Tutor
Steelshaper's Gift
Idyllic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Beseach the Queen

2x Wraths:
Phyrexian Rebirth
Plague Wind

9x Other Spells:
Alliance of Arms
Syphon Flesh
Curse of the Cabal
Praetor's Grasp
Profane Command
Exsanguinate
Blood Tithe
Blood Tribute
Storm Herd

9x Artifacts and Enchantments:
Martyr's Bond
Debtor's Knell
Grave Pact
True Conviction
Norn's Annex
Ghostly Prison
Well of Lost Dreams
Oblivion Stone
Sol Ring

5x Auras and Equipment:
Champion's Helm
Sword of Vengeance
Sword of Light and Shadow
Lightning Greaves
Whispersilk Cloak

2x Planeswalkers:
Elspeth Tirel
Elspeth, Knight Errant

So, there are 82 non-land cards in total. There are a few cards that I don't have that I would put in the deck if I had them (Divinity of Pride, Serra Ascendant, Serra Avatar, Dreathbringer Liege, and Eternal Dragon are a few). I also feel it might need more removal and wraths, but adding more cards would be pretty counterproductive . . . .

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds cutting cards to be extremely difficult. The way I build EDH decks basically goes like this: Find an awesome general I want to build a deck around. Spend hours searching Gatherer for cards to put in the deck, and end up with a list of 100 to 150 non-land cards, which I'm able to fairly quickly cut down to around 90. Then spend the next few weeks slowly and painfully cutting the deck down to 60 non-land cards, then assembe the deck. This is how it works every single time.

While the Political Puppets deck may have the most expensive singles right now, I think that Chaos Warp and Flutterstorm will fall in value soon after the decks are released. These two cards are worth a lot right now because they have potential applications in Legacy, but I don't see them being good enough to see much play. Since WotC is planning on selling a bunch of these Commander decks I imagine that the price of those rares will drop to something like $5 or $10 soon enough.

If you are looking to get the most value out of your purchase, I would suggest the Black/Blue/Green deck because it seems to have quite a few Commander staples like Solemn Simulacrum(roboJens) and Eternal Witness.

Yeah, I agree with you about the prices of the singles going down, particularly the prices of the various $20 cards. Overall value of the decks doesn't particularly matter to me, I was just curious about how much the singles in each of the decks were worth. I already bought the boxed set of all the decks, as well (for $125! I'm so glad I bought it right when it went on preorder). I'm currently trying to figure out which deck to chose for the Launch Party. I'm thinking either Political Puppets or Heavenly Inferno, because they look like the most fun.

[tgva8889]

I currently have my deck sorted into Creatures, Removal, Reanimators, Tutors, Wraths, Other Spells, Planeswalkers, Artifacts and Enchantment, Equipment and Auras, and Land.
I can't really come up with a short list of cards to possibly cut, so I'll just post the entire decklist:

*snip*

So, there are 82 non-land cards in total. There are a few cards that I don't have that I would put in the deck if I had them (Divinity of Pride, Serra Ascendant, Serra Avatar, Dreathbringer Liege, and Eternal Dragon are a few). I also feel it might need more removal and wraths, but adding more cards would be pretty counterproductive . . . .

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds cutting cards to be extremely difficult. The way I build EDH decks basically goes like this: Find an awesome general I want to build a deck around. Spend hours searching Gatherer for cards to put in the deck, and end up with a list of 100 to 150 non-land cards, which I'm able to fairly quickly cut down to around 90. Then spend the next few weeks slowly and painfully cutting the deck down to 60 non-land cards, then assembe the deck. This is how it works every single time.

Some thoughts to help your organization:
"Creatures" is a really broad organizational method. This is where you get to the nitty gritty. Dread Cacodemon, Reiver Demon, Sunblast Angel, Massacre Wurm and Elesh Norn can fall into the "Wraths" category, for example. Let's move them there. Angel of Despair, Avatar of Woe, and Royal Assassin are "Removal" cards, so let's move them to that category. Just that alone more accurately represents the fact that no, you don't need more Wraths, and wow do you have a lot of single-target creature removal (most of which is not also creatures, which is not the best). Let's finish by rearranging some other cards and changing your categories a little bit...

Spoiler

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General:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter

15x Life Gain:
Celestial Force
Souls of the Faultless
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Agent of Masks
Orzhov Guildmage
Vampire Nighthawk
Felidar Soveriegn
Chancellor of the Dross
Transcenent Master
Wurmcoil Engine
Batterskull
Exsanguinate
Blood Tithe
Blood Tribute
True Conviction

4x Stuff that makes my opponent sacrifice:
It That Betrays
Butcher of Malakir
Martyr's Bond
Grave Pact

3x Deterrents:
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
Norn's Annex
Ghostly Prison

17x Removal:
Mortify
Unmake
Go for the Throat
Doom Blade
Terror
Hex
Rend Flesh
Eyeblight's Ending
Journey to Nowhere
Seize the Soul
Oblivion Ring
Sword to Plowshares
Angel of Despair
Royal Assassin
Avatar of Woe
Curse of the Cabal
Profane Command

12x Reanimators:
Grim Harvest
Dread Return
Rise From the Grave
Zombify
Reanimate
Stir the Grave
Beacon of Unrest
Morbid Plunder
Twillight Shepherd
Reya Dawnbringer
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Debtor's Knell
Sword of Light and Shadow

7x Tutors:
Diabolic Tutor
Steelshaper's Gift
Idyllic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Beseach the Queen
Stoneforge Mystic
Praetor's Grasp

9x Wraths:
Phyrexian Rebirth
Plague Wind
Dread Cacodemon
Sunblast Angel
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Massacre Wurm
Reiver Demon
Sanguin Praetor
Oblivion Stone

5x Makes Dudes:
Alliance of Arms
Syphon Flesh
Storm Herd
Elspeth Tirel
Elspeth, Knight Errant

1x Card Drawing/Manipulation
Well of Lost Dreams

1x Mana:
Sol Ring

4x Auras and Equipment:
Champion's Helm
Sworf of Vengeance
Lightning Greaves
Whispersilk Cloak

I can now tell you immediately several glaring problems with your list:
1) There's only 1 card that manipulates your deck and only 1 card that helps your mana development. This is absolutely awful. You definitely want to be playing some more mana development and card drawing/deck manipulation cards. Sensei's Divining Top is good for a reason, but you're Black. You have some of the best options for card drawing in the game. May I suggest Phyrexian Arena? How about Necropotence? Maybe Greed? Ambition's Cost? Graveborn Muse?Moriok Replica? Promise of Power? There are even more options if you care to look. As for mana, well, you can't go wrong with Eternal Dragon, Weathered Wayfarer, Solemn Simulacrum, Pilgrim's Eye, and Twisted Abomination. And that's just a bunch of creatures!

2) You have a lot of removal. I don't think any of my decks play that much removal, and I have 3 decks, 1 of which is 5-color and 1 of which is Grixis. It's especially jarring that the large majority of it is creature removal, generally in Instant form. Creatures would be better, as you could abuse them with your reanimation, sacrifice them for effect to your General, and many other things you can do with creatures but not with Instants. Especially in this deck. Also, 17 is too many anyways, in my opinion, especially when you have some appearing elsewhere, so you should cut down. Though I notice you have very few answers to Artifacts and Enchantments, and no General answers...

3) The creature pumps and equipment subtheme feels totally out of place. I mean, I get that you could just kill them with Vish, but is that what you're trying to do? Maybe you should focus on that instead of gaining life (Seriously, 15 cards? Most of which are otherwise nothing more than huge guys?). I don't know. You should really decide what you want your deck to do. That will help you cut down significantly on cards.

4) The entire Deterrents section seems awful. You really don't need cards like this. Also, Norn's Annex and Ghostly Prison seem totally out of place in this deck. They don't fit any of the themes you seem to be going after and they aren't particularly powerful (taxing isn't that great in EDH).

There's more to be said, but I think the key I've found is that you have no idea what you want your deck to do. An EDH deck functions best when it isn't just a pile of powerful cards. It functions best when it is designed to do something specific. Figure out what specific thing you want your deck to be doing, and you should find that there are several cards that just aren't very good at getting you there.

[Eon]

Gee, all this talk about EDH... Almost makes me think I should try it... I just doubt I'll find someone I know that plays nearby...


A deck I'm playing around with...

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Seems like it works... 2 minutes later you'll point out it's absolutely terrible and all, but hey... I like it

Bandil makes a multicolored deck! The world is ending!

edit: I know it's a little more than 60 cards...

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2x Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
Planeswalkers:
2x Ajani Vengeant

Creatures:
2x Balefire Liege
2x Belligerent Hatchling
4x Boros Recruit
4x Boros Signet
4x Boros Swiftblade
4x Cerodon Yearling
2x Firemane Angel

4x Hearthfire Hobgoblin
4x Hobgoblin Dragoon
2x Nobilis of War
4x Skyknight Legionnaire

Enchantments:
4x Glory of Warfare
Artifacts:
4x Boros Signet



Lands:
4x Boros Garrison
8x Mountain
8x Plains

[IthilanorStPete]

Reposting this from the last page:

For the U/r deck I'm looking to make, I'll have Niv-Mizzet (as the general), Curiosity, and Ophidian Eye to combo with him. I'll have Vesuvan Shapeshifter and Brine Elemental for the Pickles lock. I'll have Pestermite, Deceiver Exarch, Splinter Twin, and Kiki-Jiki for that combo. Any other notable, simple combos I should put in?




Also, I'm mentally fooling around with a Standard Podcaster list, similar to what Kenny Oberg played in Block at Nagoya. Obviously, the core will be 4 Grand Architect and 4 Birthing Pod. I'll have 4 Preordain, naturally; a playset of Treasure Mages; and a playset of Phyrexian Metamorphs. I'm thinking some number of Trinket Mages too, with Brittle Effigy, Chimeric Mass, possibly Elixir of Immortality, and possibly Everflowing Chalice as targets. (Hex Parasite might be good too, come to think of it)

For the big things, I'm thinking 1 Mindslaver, 1-2 Wurmcoil Engine, 1 Myr Battlesphere, possibly 1 Contagion Engine, and 1 Spine of Ish Sah to fetch.

I'd probably want some 4 drops in there, since there'll be a profusion of 3's. Metamorph might be enough, but I'm also thinking about Molten-Tail Masticore and Lodestone Golem.

How does all of this sound?

[Suedars]

Gee, all this talk about EDH... Almost makes me think I should try it... I just doubt I'll find someone I know that plays nearby...

Do you have a local store? Show up this Saturday for the Commander release parties.

[Eon]

Do you have a local store? Show up this Saturday for the Commander release parties.

One that I'm familiar with... I don't see many people ever show up there so I don't know...

[Suedars]

Give them a call and ask if they're holding an event/expect a crowd.

[Eon]

Give them a call and ask if they're holding an event/expect a crowd.

Well... I'm also kinda busy on Saturday... So that makes it a little iffy. I might give'em a call and inquire when it is, see if I have time...

[Bucky]

For the big things, I'm thinking 1 Mindslaver, 1-2 Wurmcoil Engine, 1 Myr Battlesphere, possibly 1 Contagion Engine, and 1 Spine of Ish Sah to fetch.

Don't forget Moltensteel Dragon! You can fetch it with Treasure Mage and immediately curve into it.

[IthilanorStPete]

Don't forget Moltensteel Dragon! You can fetch it with Treasure Mage and immediately curve into it.

...Ooh, that would be a delicious idea. *cackles*

[Foeofthelance]

My knew EDH deck has drawn some hate....

My general is Arcum Dagsson, and I usually use him to fetch Darksteel Forge, then Myr Incubator. After I did that once (and ended up dying first, mind you), I played a second game. I never fetched the Myr Incubator until late in the game, instead getting Darksteel Forge, Mycosynth Lattice, Omen Machine, and Finally Timesifter.

Timesifter seemed really fun to me, and in fact it was fun and hilarious to most of us, but two players got really upset and bitchy.

Is that really that bad, considering one of the players who got bitchy spends **** tons of money on cards and has all uber tournament grade decks?

Yeah, I admit your deck would draw a lot of grief in my play circle. Not necessarily for the chaos, we like chaos. I've seen games where a copy of Memnarch gets passed around like the town bike, going to a new player every turn just because of ridiculous number of effect copiers and creature steals. (And trying to figure out who he went back to when people died was even more entertaining.) It would be the more the fact that your general is the creature form of Tinker, combined with Darksteel Forge (indestructible drives us nuts. We like smashing things) combined with having to sit through Timesifters? It becomes less fun when you have to sit there for thirty minutes waiting for your turn to finally come back around just because of some bad luck. At that point it becomes time to scoop and reset.

Also, my current Commander Deck:

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Commander - Child of New Alara (WUBRG)

Lands (35)
3x Plains
3x Islands
3x Swamps
3x Mountains
3x Forests
Mosswort Bridge
Crumbling Necropolis
Savage Lands
Raging Ravine
Exotic Orchard
Seachrome Coast
Evolving Wilds
Terramorphic Expanse
Seijir refuge
Graypelt Refuge
Akoum Refuge
Irrigation Ditch
Tinder Farm
Ancient Spring
Sulfur Vent
Geothermal Crevice
Unstable Frontier
Ancient ziggurat
Shimmering Grotto
Strip Mine

Creatures (29)
Sheoldred, the Whispering One
Lovisa Coldeyes
Lorthos, the Tidemaker
Elvish Piper
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper
Experiment Kraj
Jenara, Asura of War
Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
Chainer, Dementia Master
Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
Kiku, Night's Flower
Anowon, the Ruin Sage
Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Thraximundar
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Birds of Paradise
Rorix Bladewing
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Malfegor
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Thriss, Nantuko Primus
Ascendent Evincar
Maelstrom Archangel
Tsabo Tavoc
Savra, Queen of the Golgari
Rakka Mar
Kresh, the Bloodbraided

Planeswalkers (3)
Chandra Nalaar
Elspeth, Knight Errant
Ajani Goldmane

Others (32)
Nevinyrral's Disk
Juntu Stakes
Storage Matrix
Barrin's Spite
Psychic Battle
Indestructibility
Death or Glory
Balancing Act
Spirit of Resistance
Prophetic Prism
Semblance Anvil
Urza's Bauble
Proteus Staff
Chromatic Sphere
Legacy Weapon
Kaleidostone
Maelstrom Nexus
Finest Hour
Armillary Sphere
World at War
Gruul Signet
Dimir Signet
Thran Dynamo
Hunting Grounds
Global Ruin
Phyrexian Rebirth
Mishra's Bauble
Expedition Map
Obelisk of Bant
Obelisk of Grixis
Obelisk of Jund
Obelisk of Naya

It started out as a pure Legends deck, but I didn't have quite enough cards to sustain the idea, and I needed a lot of mana fixers in the artifact spot. On the other hand, it is always kind of fun to see people's eyes bug out when they're looking at Lorthos the Tidemaker next to Sheoldred, and of course Tsabo Tavoc just makes life fun when you can out and out assassinate Generals. I'm considering moving to a pure flavor based deck, using nothing but Legends, Planeswalkers, and their associated cards. For example, Chandra Nalaar, Chandra's Outrage, Chandra's Spitfire or Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Melira's Keepers. In that case I'll probably wait till 2012 comes out so that the 2011 prices drop and I can pick up the support staff for Gideon and Sorin.

[Frankelshtein]

Quick question: How will the release of the Commander decks affect the price of the cards the contain, if at all? There are a couple of cards I want for my Commander deck (Graaaaave Paaaaaaact, also Attrition) that are either a tad on the expensive side or no one has them. I was going to sell some cards for credit, but I don't want to commit to buying at a higher price if it'll drop in a couple of days.

[tgva8889]

Alternatively, you could buy a Commander deck.

No one knows. Probably reduce them, as currently some of the Commander decks currently contain cards that in total cost more than the cost of the decks themselves.

[Silviya]

*snip*

Thanks for all the advice!

You're right about the whole not really knowing what the deck should do thing. I had been considering making a W/B EDH deck for a while, but I didn't like any of the W/B legendaries. Then the Commander stuff came out and I saw the new W/B general. I basically threw together a bunch of cards of those colors, thinking something along the lines of "Oh, white and black have a lot of removal. And Wraths! And reanimators!" So yeah, the deck really isn't fully figured out.

And wow I have a lot of lifegain stuff. That's a much more useful way to sort things. The massive amounts of removal is there because the other people in my playgroup that I used to play with a lot had very big creature heavy decks, but I'm not playing with them so much anymore, so cutting some of the removal would be a good idea.

Hmm. Norn's Annex and Ghostly Prison were in the deck because I've found them to be very good in multiplayer games because no one wants to attack me when they're out, but now that I think about it they would be pretty bad in EDH, especially considering I'm not fighting super creature heavy decks anymore.

Yes, the idea was to kill them with Vish Kal. Equip Vish Kal with Whispersilk Cloak or one of the other things that gives him hexproof/shroud (though the cloak is ideal because it makes him unblockable), build up tons of +1/+1 counters on him, and attack, hopefully gaining enough life off of his lifelink ability to stay alive. Another thing I wanted to do with Vish Kal is sacrifice things to him while I have Martyr's Bond or Grave Pact out, to make my opponents sacrifice stuff.

Again, thanks for the advice, it helps a lot.


Another EDH related question: Is Gemstone Array any good in EDH? It is a mana battery, and it can give you something to do with your left over mana, but I've never seen it in an EDH deck. How good are mana batteries in EDH?
Along similar lines, how good are Scute Mob and Dragonmaster Outcast in EDH? Are they good because EDH games last longer, so you can get the required amount of land easier, or are they bad because they're so easily killed (or at least at first, in the case of Scute Mob)?


Frankelshtien: I think the release of the Commander decks will effect some card prices, but not others. The prices of cards that already have a lot of copies in existence and are only being printed in one commander deck probably won't decrease in price much, but the rarer cards that are being reprinted may go down in price. EDH will probably make some of the older cards easier to find (Attrition, for example. I did a quick search and most online places are selling it for about $1.00, but it could be hard to find because it's an old card. It will probably become easier to find with the new printing). Sol Ring is the card I think is going down in price the most. It was at $15.00, now I'm seeing places selling the EDH version for $8.00.

[tgva8889]

Not a problem at all! By the way, I just counted again, there's actually 13 Reanimators. Not like that's a bad thing, but I should be correct anyways. I learned that sorting method from a friend of mine and it is so helpful. It's much more useful to be able to see the types of effects you have available.

Also, I'm not against single-target removal, just the Instant kind. Creatures, those I can get on board with. Nekrataal? Faceless Butcher? Sign me up! You should definitely put some of those kinds of cards in your deck, by the way, as you're playing a lot of creature reuse. Random creatures are way more useful to you than random Terrors. May as well get both out of the bargin.

The problem with taxing in EDH is that you don't need to stave off early pressure (when cards like Ghostly Prison really shine) because most people aren't dealing significant damage to you early on. With a starting life total of 40, the only early damage you should be taking is from cheaper Generals and random 2/2s. It does add up eventually, but you can usually hold off attacks by playing a couple early drops like Solemn Simulacrum (4 is pretty early in EDH, really) and be fine. Later on, the taxing won't really matter because players will be more likely to have the 2 extra mana to smash you with their 6/6es. Norn's Annex is absolutely awful because your opponents can just Shock themselves to get around it. That said, they still have their uses, I just don't think you need them, what with your General that kills target creature very dead and your large amounts of removal and life gain.

If you want to focus on Grave Pacting and General Damage, I suggest focusing your deck on that aspect. Cut some of the random dudes that just gain life (but not Wurmcoil Engine because he's so good with Vish) and go beatdown. There's plenty of awesome cards to go for the kill with in White/Black. Anything that makes a lot of tokens is sweet for you, especially if they're bigger. Captain of the Watch, for example, is a sick 9 more counters on your Vish. Cloudgoat Ranger is a nice 8. Grave Titan is bonkers. Hatred is, of course, the bomb. It helps to know what you're trying to do. You could have been going for a life gain deck (although why you would have chosen Vish Kal in that case is kinda puzzling, as Ghost Council is probably better).

On your questions in general, Gemstone Array is generally terrible because 1) There are better ways to use your mana, and 2) Being an artifact is pretty high-risk. If it costs 4, it better do something better than cost me mana to make more mana. On the 1/1s, they're not terrible (curves do exist in Commander) but my problem with Scute Mob is that all he does is attack and block. I want my creatures to do something more. Dragonmaster Outcast I just haven't found a place for. Seems good, just hasn't fit into any of the decks I want to build.

[Suedars]

I actually really hate Faceless Butcher in EDH. With how many sweepers there are in the format, it's going to die sooner rather than later, and whatever threat you put under it will be the first thing down once the board resets. If it were a big enough body to be relevant it might be fine, since then it's a guy that stalls one of their creatures for a while, but as is it's just bad 1 for 1 removal. It's better as a very delayed blink for your own guys than removal for your opponents' threats.

If you have lots of equipment or other ways to make its body relevant it's fine though.

[tgva8889]

Well... I like it but not for most decks. It's just an example of the kind of card you want to play. Also, really good with sacrifice effects. Just saying.

I like it because I used to to turn my opponent's Bribery against them. Yeah, turns out my Ulamog wanted to be on my side of the table. He's in my Sedris, the Traitor King deck for the interactions with Unearth.

[Suedars]

Yeah, things like sac effects and Unearth make him good if your deck is built around them, but as a general removal spell I can't stand him.

[BladeofOblivion]

Oh yeah, before someone else says it:

Nin, the Pain Artist + Swans of Bryn Argoll/Stuffy Doll = Owww...

[Silviya]

tgva8889:That's a really good point about the creature removal as opposed to instant removal. And I had never thought about Captain of the Watch and Cloudgoat Ranger, but that would work really well in the deck. Grave Titan I had considered, but I currently don't have one. If I get one, though, it'll go in the deck instantly. And Hatred would be amazing.
Something I just thought of for the deck: Would Mimic Vat be any good? Sacrifice a creature to Vish, imprint it on the vat, and then activate the vat every turn and maybe attack with the creature, and then sac it to Vish. Particularly cards like Captain of the Watch and Cloudgoat Ranger.

Oh yeah, before someone else says it:

Nin, the Pain Artist + Swans of Bryn Argoll/Stuffy Doll = Owww...

Speaking of Stuffy Doll related combos, I've always wanted to make a deck with Stuffy Doll + Pariah. Just because it would be silly.

[tgva8889]

Oh yeah, before someone else says it:

Nin, the Pain Artist + Swans of Bryn Argoll/Stuffy Doll = Owww...

Yup. I like Nin because she is sort of like a Spellshaper that turns all your creatures into Braingeysers.

[BladeofOblivion]

Yup. I like Nin because she is sort of like a Spellshaper that turns all your creatures into Braingeysers.

Indeed. It's even better if said creatures are masochistic. Or otherwise benefit from being hurt. Of course, that's my inner Johnny trying to release dopamine. It's official: Izzet colors are Johnnyriffic.


I also have a legacyish casual deck that could use some work: I'm curious to see what you guys would recommend for it. You see, I don't often play Red and my black decks tend to be a bit more conservative towards life and resources, but Rakdos looks fun to play. So I probably had some very epic failures here.

Hellfire and the Black Rose

Spoiler

Show

Creatures
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
1x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
3x Crypt Champion
2x Gobhobbler Rats
2x Ashenmoor Liege
4x Soulbright Flamekin
2x Cinder Shade
2x Kulrath Knight

Enchantments
2x Rage Reflection
2x Fists of the Demigod
2x Anthem of Rakdos

Instants/Sorceries
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Blightning
2x Infernal Tutor
2x Terminate

Artifacts:
2x Quietus Spike

Lands:
4x Badlands
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Rakdos Carnarium
4x Graven Cairns
4x Lavaclaw Reaches

[Suedars]

Does anyone else find Nin to be extremely jarring flavor-wise? I mean, her ability is definitely UR and makes complete sense, but her name just doesn't fit UR at all. If you told me there was a creature called Nin, the Pain Artist and had me guess her color, I'd never guess UR. B and BR seem much more fitting for that name.

[BladeofOblivion]

Does anyone else find Nin to be extremely jarring flavor-wise? I mean, her ability is definitely UR and makes complete sense, but her name just doesn't fit UR at all. If you told me there was a creature called Nin, the Pain Artist and had me guess her color, I'd never guess UR. B and BR seem much more fitting for that name.

Well, the "Artist" part fits UR perfectly. The "Pain" part much less so.