Magic the Gathering X: Deal X damage to target thread.

[Mirrinus]

I personally always liked Manabarbs + Tamanoa.

Recently, I've been playing around with Training Grounds + Soratami Savant. Dreamscape Artist helps too. Azure Mage and Azorius Guildmage are good complements as well.

[tgva8889]

Mana Barbs + My opponents tapping lands for mana while controling Planeswalkers has been a personal favorite. Though nothing beats Caves of Koilos + Shining Shoal.

Edit: Planeswalker Points, the new competitive Magic rating system. What do people think about it?

[Silverlich]

So, between curse of the bloody tome, Mindshrieker, Silcaw, Sword of Body and Mind, and Jace the Mind Sculptor, I feel like it would be possible to build a good mill deck in innistrad/scars standard. Agreed?

[Sohala]

I take it you mean Jace, Memory Adept?

[Frankelshtein]

So, between curse of the bloody tome, Mindshrieker, Silcaw, Sword of Body and Mind, and Jace the Mind Sculptor, I feel like it would be possible to build a good mill deck in innistrad/scars standard. Agreed?

I dunno, I feel like a lot of the best mill stuff we've seen in a while is rotating out with Zendikar (which makes me wonder why they had so many good mill cards in the same block with the Eldrazi). I'm assuming you're talking about Jace, Memory Adept (As opposed to Mind Sculptor). It's fairly easy to build a deck around Jace, especially because he has his own, small cycle in M12 (Archivist and Erasure), which are extremely synergistic with each other and with Jace himself. In all honesty, Mindshrieker, and the Curse don't strike me as very impressive cards if you're going for the straight Mill archetype. The way I see it, for that mana, there is much more that you could be doing to mill them out. As for the Silcaw/Sword, you'd have to make more of a dedication to Metalcraft to make that work (Grindstone would probably work, and perhaps Shriekhorn if you want to add a Proliferate element).

Personally, if you really want to make mill work, I'd recommend going with Jace and co., along with some heavy control, and perhaps a Consecrated Sphinx or two if you can get your hands on it. The Silcaw/Metalcraft/Proliferate deck also seems silly and fun.

Of course, all of this advice is merely my opinion, and I've never been one to have very accurate/helpful opinions

I'm not sure if Mill would really work in Standard, but I sincerely hope it does. It seems that Wizards has been steadily trying to make better mill cards, and we'll have to see what rolls around come Innistrad.

[MammonAzrael]

So, between curse of the bloody tome, Mindshrieker, Silcaw, Sword of Body and Mind, and Jace the Mind Sculptor, I feel like it would be possible to build a good mill deck in innistrad/scars standard. Agreed?

No, I rather doubt it.

• Curse of the Bloody Tome is bloody slow.
• Mindshrieker will get more reliable pumps from milling yourself, and should kill your opponent with damage long before an extra few cards from their library a turn matters...or you'll be dead because you'll have been spending your turns milling 2-3 cards instead of developing your board.
• Screeching Silcaw is delicate, requiring metalcraft, and if you're able to hit with it, you're better off getting in with something stronger.
• Sword of Body and Mind is going to end the game quickly if you get a few hits in, and the milling and extra damage are about equal. And you do have to attack.
• Jace, Memory Adept, if he sees play, will likely be wanting to mill you, getting cards like Skaab Ruinator into your graveyard.

None of these help you survive a blistering start by Tempered Steel, the Acidic Slimes and versatility of Pods, the burn of RDW...they clog your deck with a large number of cards that do very little to stabilize or advance your board position.

[Bucky]

No, I rather doubt it.

• Curse of the Bloody Tome is bloody slow.
• Mindshrieker will get more reliable pumps from milling yourself, and should kill your opponent with damage long before an extra few cards from their library a turn matters...or you'll be dead because you'll have been spending your turns milling 2-3 cards instead of developing your board.
• Screeching Silcaw is delicate, requiring metalcraft, and if you're able to hit with it, you're better off getting in with something stronger.
• Sword of Body and Mind is going to end the game quickly if you get a few hits in, and the milling and extra damage are about equal. And you do have to attack.
• Jace, Memory Adept, if he sees play, will likely be wanting to mill you, getting cards like Skaab Ruinator into your graveyard.

None of these help you survive a blistering start by Tempered Steel, the Acidic Slimes and versatility of Pods, the burn of RDW...they clog your deck with a large number of cards that do very little to stabilize or advance your board position.

Nitpick: milling singleton Pod targets is a significant, though unreliable, advantage. Sword of Body and Mind is known to sometimes disable Valakut by milling a pocket of mountains.

[MammonAzrael]

Nitpick: milling singleton Pod targets is a significant, though unreliable, advantage. Sword of Body and Mind is known to sometimes disable Valakut by milling a pocket of mountains.

Oh, very true. I apologize if I sounded like it was completely useless. If you get lucky and hit key cards, then you're in great shape. SoBaM certainly can steal wins from Valakut by hitting enough mountains, but that is a weakness of Valakut specifically, And it certainly isn't foolproof, as an Inferno Titan can still smash you. If you can include mill as a back-up or alternate plan, then it can occasionally shine, and that works with SoBaM because it does a lot more than just mill. But dedication is usually just too much.

[tgva8889]

Also, Valakut won't be Standard Legal, so if we're talking about Standard it doesn't matter.

I feel like Mill will just end up being terrible sometimes when you play against the deck that's trying to, say, play graveyard abusers and you fill their 'yard for them.

[Duos]

I've got mixed feelings about the Planeswalker Points system. On the one had, it promotes playing the game more often, and there's no drawback for losing. On the other hand, I also dislike systems that reward mindless grinding (I already know several people who hop from shop to shop to shop in order to grind things like FNM and events for rewards).

[Silverlich]

Will need revision when Innistrad comes out, tell me how terrible this truly is, on a scale from awful to bad:

4 Cancel
4 Grindclock
4 Memnite
4 Curse of the Bloody Tome
2 Mana Leak
2 Chancellor of the Spires
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindcrank
4 Screeching Silcaw
4 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Hovermyr
2 Mindshrieker
22 Islands

[tgva8889]

The thing is, you still have to be good at the game. So you could go and attend 4 FNMs every week, but unless you managed to do well in any of them, you'd still only earn the same as one person who's good and wins their weekly FNM.

[Suedars]

Plus there aren't really any rewards for points short of Pro Tour qualifications, which grinding FNMs alone won't get you.

[Frankelshtein]

Will need revision when Innistrad comes out, tell me how terrible this truly is, on a scale from awful to bad:

4 Cancel
4 Grindclock
4 Memnite
4 Curse of the Bloody Tome
2 Mana Leak
2 Chancellor of the Spires
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindcrank
4 Screeching Silcaw
4 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Hovermyr
2 Mindshrieker
22 Islands

Well, your land balance is a bit off. 22 Islands usually won't cut it. It feels to me that you'd be much better off with more of a proliferate/Grindclock theme if you're set on playing artifacts. Perhaps cut the Hovermyr, the Mindshriekers, Memnites, the Curses, and the Chancellors for Shriekhorns, Tumble Magnets, Contagion Clasps, and Tezzeret's Gambits?

I'd also echo what tgva said, and suggest that Mill probably isn't going to work well with a graveyard-cetric Standard environment.

Spoiler

Show

There seems to be a blue trend in Innistrad involving dumping cards into your own graveyard, but that's not something a typical Mill deck would do. There's also the risk of it being very advantageous for an opponent (*cough* Boneyard Wurm *cough*)

To be honest, unless there is some amazing contribution to the strategy in Innistrad, I don't really see Mill working very well in Standard right now.

[The-Mage-King]

So... 'bout that page 51...

All in favor of "Magic the Gathering XI: Vote Nicol Bolas for president 2012! " being the next thread title?

[tgva8889]

New Thread.

[BladeofObliviom]

So... 'bout that page 51...

All in favor of "Magic the Gathering XI: Vote Nicol Bolas for president 2012! " being the next thread title?

I still like it.

Or the other new one. That works too.

[Frankelshtein]

EDIT: Stupid leaving pages open... *grumble*

[James Lu]

Who got Innistrad cards? :D I got a completely new deck.

[Fable Wright]

New Thread.

Sorry for keeping this alive, but this thread is over. Everyone's migrated to the new thread. (Once a thread gets to 50+ pages, expect there to be a link to the next thread.)