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    Default is this borked?

    greetings,

    a player of mine has fallen in love with the duskblade, but, not having access to the book it's in, any questions he has are directed through me.

    he asked if duskblades could channel spells through ranged weapons.

    I checked. they can not. Arcane Channelling explicitly states "melee attack"

    however.

    I became curious.

    is it obscenely unbalancing/broken to allow a Duskblade to channel through a ranged weapon?

    why or why not?
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    I am by no means an expert, but when I read that two words did pop right into my mind.

    Siege Weaponry.
    Last edited by Arundel; 2011-06-16 at 12:14 AM.

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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arundel View Post
    I am by no means an expert, but when I read that two words did pop right into my mind.

    Siege Weaponry.
    I approve of the mental image of channelling disintegrate through a ballista.

    allow me to amend my initial statement.

    "this would obviously be restricted to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS such as bows, crossbows, slings, etc."

    also, any shenanigans on the part of the player will result in DMG throwing...


    but in the group this guy's in I honestly don't see that being a problem.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    I wouldn't think so. They don't have anything that's ridiculously powerful, so switching the method of delivery from melee to ranged shouldn't be an issue.

    If you really feel that it's overpowering you could always turn it into an ACF, or simply switch the class around so that they can only use those abilities with ranged attacks.

    Hmmm that's not a half bad idea. Duskbow. I likes it!

    As an aside have you looked at the Pathfinder Arcane Archer? It's pretty nice.
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/p...aneArcher.html
    Last edited by McSmack; 2011-06-16 at 12:19 AM.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Maybe thrown weapon, or you could just go into bloodstorm blade (or whatever the PrC is).
    BEEP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSmack View Post
    I wouldn't think so. They don't have anything that's ridiculously powerful, so switching the method of delivery from melee to ranged shouldn't be an issue.

    If you really feel that it's overpowering you could always turn it into an ACF, or simply switch the class around so that they can only use those abilities with ranged attacks.

    Hmmm that's not a half bad idea. Duskbow. I likes it!

    As an aside have you looked at the Pathfinder Arcane Archer? It's pretty nice.
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/p...aneArcher.html
    I actually really like this idea, I'll probably let him use melee and ranged interchangeably with the caveat that IF it becomes borked (or even just borked in comparison to the party) that it'll become an ACF and a either or choice.

    I like this.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    I approve of the mental image of channelling disintegrate through a ballista.

    allow me to amend my initial statement.

    "this would obviously be restricted to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS such as bows, crossbows, slings, etc."
    Surely you know that anything is man-portable with enough cheese.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarra View Post
    Maybe thrown weapon, or you could just go into bloodstorm blade (or whatever the PrC is).
    Yes, you can indeed channel through a thrown weapon with 2-4 levels of bloodstorm blade. You need to blow 3 feats or 1 feat and a dip into warblade to qualify though.

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    Default Re: is this borked?

    If siege weaponry is not available, what about flinging party members or enemies? I mean, they are man-portable, right? They got there on their own power. Or put the halfling into your backpack in the first place.

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    Default Re: is this borked?

    The only ways I know to do that by RAW are Bloodstorm Blade and and Arcane Archer, and the latter is a trap.

    Bloodstorm's thrown attacks count as melee, meaning you can channel like normal. Arcane Archer would use it's own mechnic, which is relatively similar. Niether is particularly good for what you are trying accomplish, since BSB requires a decent investment in warblade, Arcane Archer sucks, and neither PRC advances your spell casting. BSB does advance your maneuvers and such, but I'm guessing you would rather keep your caster levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    If siege weaponry is not available, what about flinging party members or enemies? I mean, they are man-portable, right? They got there on their own power. Or put the halfling into your backpack in the first place.
    That just reminds me of my favorite boss fight that I have ever run. An ogre with fling ally, and the ally was a goblin swordsage who's armorspikes were enchanted with throwing and returning.

    As far as allowing a player to have the ability to arcane channel through a bow, that's probably fine, but you should either charge a feat, brew a 1 lvl prc, brew an ACF, or give the other players some sort of minor boon. Example: I had a swordsage who really wanted access to iron heart discipline, he got that, the dread necro (who had arcane disciple: magic domain) got the domain power, and the psion got +1ml(but no PP or powers) on levels that psion uncarnate did not advance manifesting.
    Last edited by Darth Stabber; 2011-06-17 at 01:50 PM.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    Surely you know that anything is man-portable with enough cheese.
    oh aye sure I know that

    but my players don't ^_^

    I told the guy that I'd let him have it both ways, but I reserve the right to AT ANY TIME demand he pick one or the other.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    If siege weaponry is not available, what about flinging party members or enemies? I mean, they are man-portable, right? They got there on their own power. Or put the halfling into your backpack in the first place.
    Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

    If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

    If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.
    I thought he was already a gnome, that probably doesn't stack with itself.

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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Maybe it means the gnome can't be flung again? The inability to be flung is a pretty big hit to the race.

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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

    If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by KoboldCleric View Post
    I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Fling Ally + Duskblade = Fireball Gnomes

    If you can somehow stack Drunken Master1 onto it, you could get an extra +1d4 damage. With the additional benefit of the Gnome "breaking apart and becoming useless" if he rolls a natural 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by KoboldCleric View Post
    I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...
    Quote Originally Posted by EarFall View Post
    I thought he was already a gnome, that probably doesn't stack with itself.

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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    is it obscenely unbalancing/broken to allow a Duskblade to channel through a ranged weapon?

    why or why not?
    Given their extremely poor selection of touch spells, no. If they can get access to sorcerer/wizard/cleric spells via Chameleon/Sublime Chord/Arcanamach/Ur-Priest, then you may be cooking with a bit more awesomesauce.

    However, it would be trivially easy to slip in a level of Warblade followed by two levels of Bloodstorm Blade to pick up Thunderous Throw: swift action to treat all your ranged thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    why or why not?
    I'd say it isn't obscenely unbalancing. If I recall correctly, Duskblades can't do anything particularly impressive anyway, so letting them do it from ten feet away seems harmless enough.

    I was under the impression that bows were generally inferior anyway, so switching to a lower damage yield delivery method might be a step down in terms of pure power, although being able to target anyone on the battlefield would be a step up for versatility.
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    I played a duskblade that channeled through a bow. The DM allowed me to burn a feat to switch from melee to ranged. It wasn't amazingly powerful and caused no balance issues at all. Was a fun character that fit in just fine with the rest of the party.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Stabber View Post
    The only ways I know to do that by RAW are Bloodstorm Blade and and Arcane Archer, and the latter is a trap.

    Bloodstorm's thrown attacks count as melee, meaning you can channel like normal. Arcane Archer would use it's own mechnic, which is relatively similar. Niether is particularly good for what you are trying accomplish, since BSB requires a decent investment in warblade, Arcane Archer sucks, and neither PRC advances your spell casting. BSB does advance your maneuvers and such, but I'm guessing you would rather keep your caster levels.
    Yeah Arcane Archer is not so snazzy. That's why I prefer Paizo's version. It's actually decent and well balanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    I approve of the mental image of channelling disintegrate through a ballista.

    allow me to amend my initial statement.

    "this would obviously be restricted to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS such as bows, crossbows, slings, etc."

    also, any shenanigans on the part of the player will result in DMG throwing...


    but in the group this guy's in I honestly don't see that being a problem.
    Actually disintegrate is a ranged touch attack, and thus not a valid target. You could do Vampiric Touch on the ballista, but that doesn't really do much...

    And using it on siege weapons isn't really overpowering, as they need to get the siege weapons in the first place... and then it's only a small boost.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    I get the feeling the DM in question does not wish to encourage them to get siege weaponry, possibly veering away from the plot to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I get the feeling the DM in question does not wish to encourage them to get siege weaponry, possibly veering away from the plot to do so.
    They can already sneak attack someone by quickdrawing a ballista from a bag of holding, so the ability to channel spells through it as well doesn't give them too much more incentive to get some...
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    And using it on siege weapons isn't really overpowering, as they need to get the siege weapons in the first place... and then it's only a small boost.
    Once you get to the point where you're using siege weapons, I don't think effectiveness is the point
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoboldCleric View Post
    I don't know Telonius, this seems dubious at best; "becomes useless" seems to imply that the gnome would have had to have been useful at some point before that, so I don't think they can quite qualify by RAW ...
    Well... is this useless as in "There is no use for it" or useless as in "unable to fill its original purpose", which already was useless?
    If you break a gnome, does it become competent?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asheram View Post
    Well... is this useless as in "There is no use for it" or useless as in "unable to fill its original purpose", which already was useless?
    If you break a gnome, does it become competent?
    Gnomes are useful! They're there to invent things and let humans steal the credit. After all, where do you think cars and planes came from?

    The other use for them is to stand in lawns wearing pointy hats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose View Post
    Gnomes are useful! They're there to invent things and let humans steal the credit. After all, where do you think cars and planes came from?

    The other use for them is to stand in lawns wearing pointy hats.
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    Default Re: is this borked?

    Give it the same caveat as sneak attack: Can be used with a melee or ranged weapon as long as the target is within 30'.

    No siege weapons, but he can hit from range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueInc View Post
    Give it the same caveat as sneak attack: Can be used with a melee or ranged weapon as long as the target is within 30'.

    No siege weapons, but he can hit from range.
    Siege weapon in a bag of holding, brought out within 30ft of the target.

    Also Sniper's Touch, I think, from SpC can increase that range dramatically...
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