Psionic Iaijutsu Optimization

[Yorae]

So I've been looking for an iaijutsu build that works well and might actually be fun to play.

Probably taking a dip into Marshal for the minor aura to add extra CHA bonus to the skill check. I've also seen recommendations for Factotum, though I'm not really sure if I'll use it or what the build will look like. I was hoping I might be able to gish it up a little bit so that I have a few other options (was thinking cha-based psionics (Edit: Okay, that's pretty much just Wilder - Ardent, maybe?). Iaijutsu Master has some nice things as well, especially the 5th level "Strike From the Void" that adds +CHA to damage per die of iaijutsu damage.

I'm looking for suggestions for how to build this guy, and consistently get the iaijutsu bonus for attacking flat-footed opponents.

Note that I don't want to have to use a Gnomish Quickrazor or carrying 9999 weapons and dropping them on the ground shenanigans here -- really doesn't suit the flavor. Besides that, it seems that the RAW reading of iaijutsu grants the bonus on every attack of a full attack anyway, as long as you draw the weapon right before the full attack. Even if it doesn't, I'm fairly certain that my DM would allow Quick Draw to count for sheathing a weapon as well.

Also of note -- my DM houserules that every character gets Able Learner for free, even if they don't meet the requirements (she hates having "half-ranks" of skills). We also typically have significantly higher attribute scores than normal (rolled, 5d6, drop lowest, cap of 20).

[bigstipidfighte]

Able Learner... IIRC that doesn't actually give you access to Iaijutsu, correct? If not Human Paragon would work as a substitute for Factotem, or even in addition to Factotem if you want to multiclass.


If you're not familier with it Human Paragon is from Unearthed Arcana, is Human Only (obviously) and is a three level class thyat has no prereqs (can be taken at first level if desired) The first level ability lets you add one skill to your class skill list permanently, for every class you take. If you do decide to gish it up, levels 2 and 3 are both +1 caster level and +1 BAB, plus some nice bonunses.

If you want to go for broke with Iaijutsu, you can doube your skill ranks by investing in an Item Familier, though you/ your Dm might find it a bit cheesy and OP.

Don't forget to buy a Masterwork Item to give you a +2 bonus to Iaijutsu. I would suggest a custom-made scabbard, but it can be anything that makes sense to you and the DM.

Other than that I can't offer much advice, never personally played an Iaijutsu character.

[bigstipidfighte]

Okay, so my last post really answered the wrong question. I misread your post and didn't realize you were looking more for ways to get Iaijutsu all the time and not so much how to max out your Iaijutsu bonus.

I'd suggest a Swordsage dip. Two maneuvers off the top of my head thaty will really help you with getting your opponent flat-footed are Cloak of Deception, which as a swift action grants you Greater Invisibility for one round. There is also another manuever that allows you to make your oppenent flat footed though the name escapes me at the moment. I'm sure someone else will come along and tell you the name.

As for how to spam Iaijutsu... well, you have to be constantly drawing your weapon, and you don't want to use either the obvious ways of doing that, so I don't know what to tell you there. The only thing I can think of that would let you do that is a cool prestige class from a third party book called the Blade Artist. They can draw a dagger, strike and sheath it in one motion as a class ability.

EDIT: This thread is a good resuorce if you're interested in getting your Charisma to attack/damage etc.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

[Yorae]

Okay, so my last post really answered the wrong question. I misread your post and didn't realize you were looking more for ways to get Iaijutsu all the time and not so much how to max out your Iaijutsu bonus.

I'd suggest a Swordsage dip. Two maneuvers off the top of my head thaty will really help you with getting your opponent flat-footed are Cloak of Deception, which as a swift action grants you Greater Invisibility for one round. There is also another manuever that allows you to make your oppenent flat footed though the name escapes me at the moment. I'm sure someone else will come along and tell you the name.

As for how to spam Iaijutsu... well, you have to be constantly drawing your weapon, and you don't want to use either the obvious ways of doing that, so I don't know what to tell you there. The only thing I can think of that would let you do that is a cool prestige class from a third party book called the Blade Artist. They can draw a dagger, strike and sheath it in one motion as a class ability.

EDIT: This thread is a good resuorce if you're interested in getting your Charisma to attack/damage etc.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

Actually, any advice at all is helpful.

Those maneuvers reminded me of an alternate class feature for monks from Exemplars of Evil called Invisible Fist that allows you to lose evasion at 2nd level in order to turn invisible for a round once every three rounds... that might be a viable dip, I suppose.

[Zonugal]

Getting this into an item might be a worthy cause.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Factorum lets you add class levels to a skill check, and has all skills as class skills. See also: Habadasherer.

As far as making opponents flat-footed... Grease works wonders. If you have less than 5 ranks in Balance (most things don't have any ranks in it), then you are flat-footed when you make the Balance check (DC 10) to keep from falling on your arse.

[Yorae]

Just found "Distract Assailant" - 1st level assassin/wiz/sorc spell in SpC that makes the target flat-footed as a swift action. Just making a note of that.

[tyckspoon]

Forcing Balance checks is probably the easiest way to go, since you can do it with low-level spells and even mundane items (gogo bag of marbles). The nice thing about it is that you don't even care whether or not they manage to luck into making the check (and you sort of prefer they do, because you want them standing and flatfooted to iajutsu them, not prone); it's the fact that they're balancing at all that does the job.

Important rules note: "Flatfooted" and "denied Dex to AC" are not the same thing. Striking from invisibility makes your target denied Dex. It does not make him flatfooted. Flatfooted is a condition that has to be specifically forced outside of the normal condition of somebody who has yet to act in a combat.

[Yorae]

I dont suppose that there's a psionic power somewhere that makes creatures flatfooted?

[faceroll]

OP-
What are the exact rules on how your group plays with skills? Do all skills have the same max rank, but cross class skills take 2x to purchase, or are you actually playing with able learner rules?

Factorum lets you add class levels to a skill check, and has all skills as class skills. See also: Habadasherer.

Unfortunately, it is just your factotum class level, and it's only once per skill per day. Not exactly overwhelming. Still needed to pick up the skill, though.

As far as making opponents flat-footed... Grease works wonders. If you have less than 5 ranks in Balance (most things don't have any ranks in it), then you are flat-footed when you make the Balance check (DC 10) to keep from falling on your arse.

Marbles also work, I believe.

[Yorae]

OP-
What are the exact rules on how your group plays with skills? Do all skills have the same max rank, but cross class skills take 2x to purchase, or are you actually playing with able learner rules?

Every skill costs 1 skill point, regardless of whether it is a class skill. Max ranks remains the same.

Just found something neat: Erudite has an ACF called "Spell To Power" that I could use to convert Distract Assailant to a power! Granted, its int-based, but meh, should be fine. Hit die is awful, though... Time to find a decent PrC to advance Erudite powers with a BAB/ hit die that isn't so terrible.

We use the magic/psionics transparency, so maybe there's a decent gish class I could use to advance my erudite manifesting....

[sreservoir]

if hyperconscious is available, ghostbreaker is great for gishes. otherwise, slayer is probably about as good as it gets.

[Yorae]

if hyperconscious is available, ghostbreaker is great for gishes. otherwise, slayer is probably about as good as it gets.

Well, I guess I could try Knight Phantom and waste a feat Still Spell, which is useless to me and has no power equivalent... likewise. "Somatic Mastery" would be wasted. Abjurant Champion MIGHT work if I can spell-to-power Shield. Eldritch Knight is a simpler option, I guess. I might take Human Paragon anyway, so that'd be +2 manifester levels right there. Hmm....

Edit: I just realized that my psicrystal could be his katana / embedded in the hilt of the katana. He could "commune with the spirit of the blade." =D

Double Edit: Hey, and int is synergistic with Iaijutsu Master's Canny Defense... neat.

[Yorae]

So I took a bit and put together the bulk of a build to see what it would look like -- manifesting suffers a lot, but that was pretty much expected. There's also the clause in Erudite that you can't have equal or more levels in a different manifesting class and still retain the ability to learn extra powers.

I figure Item Familiar will not only help me optimize my Iaijutsu Focus checks (by investing skill points in my katana), it also adds to the whole "my sword is an awesome spiritual power" thing (along with having my psycrystal refluffed to actually BE my sword).

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Edit: Realized I left out the placeholder for the 6th level feat there. Oops. Just pretend its there.

Alternatively, I could change the race to Kalashtar for the extra PP and drop Human Paragon, blow a feat on Still Spell (useless, but meh), Spell-to-Power Phantom Steed, and wind up with a slightly higher ML and a class that actually has class abilities.

Edit: Okay, dropping Human Paragon hurts a lot more than I thought... lose BAB and a lot of hitpoints...not sure I want to take 5 straight levels of erudite that early in a melee build. I'll use my Ability Boost from Human Paragon for Int, so that'll help a little bit. Maybe a different build would look something like this?

Note that the scaling for Ancestral Daisho from the OA Samurai is based on CHARACTER level, rather than class level, which makes it actually pretty good for a dip, imo.

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[ShneekeyTheLost]

Unfortunately, it is just your factotum class level, and it's only once per skill per day. Not exactly overwhelming. Still needed to pick up the skill, though.

It's still one of only three classes in the game which have Iajitsu Focus as a class skill...

Marbles also work, I believe.

Marbles are a non-renewable expendable resource you have to get more of. Being able to use a 1st level spell as a SLA, or being able to cast 1st level spells gives you a renewable source of the condition. When given the choice, my personal preference is to go for the renewable resource over one which is expended.

Also, as Factorums quickly get a 1st level spell as an SLA (Arcane Dilettante) they can do so 'in house' at no additional charge, as long as you are planning on continuing in the class.

[Yorae]

Just realized my second build doesn't work -- I can't pick up Phantom Steed at the requisite level because the spells you can convert to powers must be one level LOWER than the highest level power you can manifest....

So, uhh... change Still Spell back to an open feat slot and replace "Knight Phantom" with "Eldritch Knight" again for the second build. I still prefer it over the first, though... Ancestral Daisho is nice to make sure I can keep my weapon up-to-date (stacking with Item Familiar =) ) and it gives my character a viable reason to have a masterwork katana at level 1 (which would typically be implausible due to price).

Edit: HMMM... I suppose I COULD make sure I take Shield via Spell to Power as well, grab Combat Casting where Still Spell used to be, and replace a few of those late Erudite levels with Abjurant Champion.

[faceroll]

Marbles are a non-renewable expendable resource you have to get more of. Being able to use a 1st level spell as a SLA, or being able to cast 1st level spells gives you a renewable source of the condition. When given the choice, my personal preference is to go for the renewable resource over one which is expended.

Are you for real? You're basically setting levels on fire because you don't want to put some marbles in your extradimensional storage space?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Are you for real? You're basically setting levels on fire because you don't want to put some marbles in your extradimensional storage space?

I fail to see how leveraging additional character levels for multiple purposes is 'setting levels on fire'...

[Stallion]

Dual wield a kukri and a katana and go with Invisible Blade. If you have a reasonable DM, then overlooking the nonsensical prereqs and replacing them with things that make more sense would be lovely. Since you're already going with a decent charisma base, your bluff should be decent, and you could try grabbing a level of Exemplar and working up that Bluff. Now, that may be just a teensy bit feat intensive, but there are ways (and classes) to help you get around that.

[Yorae]

So I took a bit and put together the bulk of a build to see what it would look like -- manifesting suffers a lot, but that was pretty much expected. There's also the clause in Erudite that you can't have equal or more levels in a different manifesting class and still retain the ability to learn extra powers.

Arg... just realized... does this mean I can't have three levels in Erudite and three levels in Human Paragon as well? -_-

Didn't think about that. =x

[faceroll]

That clause is really gnarly, because it sort of destroys your ability to retain class features and prestige class.

[Yorae]

That clause is really gnarly, because it sort of destroys your ability to retain class features and prestige class.

Gnarly it is. Managed to compensate for it slightly better and use Abjurant Champion as well because... well, when your choice is Eldritch Knight or Abjurant Champion and you can take both there's no reason not to choose the latter.

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Edit: Arg, pretend I removed "Phantom Steed" from class abilities like I meant to. (Actually it looks like the class abilities column is just all screwed up... I'm sleepy, I'll fix it later. =p )

Edit again: Would there be any way to somehow acquire Lion's Charge? I don't think I can get it via spell to power, because its only available as a divine spell, but is it possible to learn the psionic version somehow, even though it happens to be on the Psychic Warrior list?

Edit once more: Actually, looking this up, the answer appears to be 'no'. Oh well, I can always just manifest Hustle instead - should do just fine. Most of the time I'm using up my swift actions with Distract Assailant, anyway, in order to get the Iaijutsu bonus.

[Swooper]

There is also another manuever that allows you to make your oppenent flat footed though the name escapes me at the moment. I'm sure someone else will come along and tell you the name.

Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Diamond Mind 1.

[Yorae]

Any recommendations for filling in those feats / which powers to take / any good spells to convert to powers?

Maybe suggestions for gear as well? Presumably he won't be wearing much in the way of armor, at least once he picks up Canny Defense. Weapon should be taken care of via Ancestral Daisho + Item Familiar.

[HalfDragonCube]

Getting this into an item might be a worthy cause.

That is awesome in a custom use-activated item. It costs 12,000gp for a +20 competence bonus to any skill checks you make with no action.

Most DMs wouldn't allow it, though. Right up there with the use-activated sword of true strike.

[sreservoir]

That is awesome in a custom use-activated item. It costs 12,000gp for a +20 competence bonus to any skill checks you make with no action.

Most DMs wouldn't allow it, though. Right up there with the use-activated sword of true strike.

casting it in advance works just as well. just get an at-will command item.

[mootoall]

I'm just about to leave the hosue, so I don't have time to check if anyone's suggested this, but throwing weapons might fit the bill. In fact, I'm not sure if it would work, but you might want to try to go for the Talenta Boomerang Daze trick if you're trying to optimize Iajutsu Focus.