# Thread: Truly Average Damage

1. ## Truly Average Damage

So, a while ago I made a spreadsheet that uses to-hit bonus, target AC, average damage, critical threat, and critical multiplier to determine what your average damage *per swing* is.

In other words everything from 1-20, including what happens if you crit.

I finally checked out Google docs, so now I can share this with the world!

To-Hit: Fairly simple - this is your total to-hit bonus after all modifiers.
Target AC: Again, rather simple. The AC your to-hit is going against
Average Damage: A bit tricky to determine*, but make sure to include all bonuses
Crit Threat: This is where you begin to threaten. If your crit range is 17-20 put a 17 in this field.
Crit Multiplier: 2 for x2, 3 for x3, etc. etc.
Miss chance: Blur = 20, displacement = 50

*I think most people know how this works, but for those who don't.
D2 averages to 1.5
D3 averages to 2
D4 averages to 2.5
D6 averages to 3.5
D8 averages to 4.5
D10 averages to 5.5
D12 averages to 6.5
D20 averages to 10.5
+ all bonuses

Again, this is not your average damage per hit, it is over the lifetime of swings against a target, what your average damage *per swing* will wind up being.

2. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Maybe add a field for miss chance % for things like Concealment or Displacement? The math should be easy (just multiply the final damage by 1-miss%).

3. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Gasp! No average for d2s and d3s?!

You sicken me.

4. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Draz74
Maybe add a field for miss chance % for things like Concealment or Displacement? The math should be easy (just multiply the final damage by 1-miss%).
Yeah, that would probably be pretty easy. I think you're right - you could just reduce the final amount by the miss %

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma
Gasp! No average for d2s and d3s?!

You sicken me.

You know... I knew someone was going to say that if I didn't include it...

5. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Average monster AC: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=5

I like to use CR = PC level - 2 b/c 4 of those monsters is an EL PC level + 2 encounter, which is considered difficult but not overwhelming.

Of minor importance on ridiculous crit builds is to remember that you don't threaten a crit if you don't hit, and thus you must remember to reduce your effective crit range against higher AC monsters... or the OP could adjust the spreadsheet to do that for you.

6. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by ericgrau
Average monster AC: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=5

I like to use CR = PC level - 2 b/c 4 of those monsters is an EL PC level + 2 encounter, which is considered difficult but not overwhelming.

Of minor importance on ridiculous crit builds is to remember that you don't threaten a crit if you don't hit, and thus you must remember to reduce your effective crit range against higher AC monsters... or the OP could adjust the spreadsheet to do that for you.
It already checks for that. Let's say you only hit on a 18, but 15+ is your crit range - if you put a 15 in for critical threat it will only start to work at 18.

7. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

So this will be similar to the DPR calculators used by 4e boards sounds good.

8. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by MeeposFire
So this will be similar to the DPR calculators used by 4e boards sounds good.
There's a what now?

And I have miss chance working now :P

9. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Typewriter
There's a what now?

And I have miss chance working now :P
DPR = Damage Per Round.

Comes from MMORPG terminology, DPS (meaning Damage Per Second).

4e fans took the "4e is like an MMO!" 'criticism' and ran with it.

10. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Plus it is easy to figure out in 4e since at the start classes generally used one attack power in a round and the typical defense math is spelled out in the DMG so calculations are actually based on official math rather than in 3e which we can only do averages. This made calculations for determining your average damage over time easy to compute. Even today they still call it DPR even though often times it is being used to show damage per attack.

11. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Ahh, yeah that makes sense.

I just think it makes for an interesting exercise in thinking.

12. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Just wanted to say there's already something way better out there.
- You don't have to strain your brain and calculate the average of 1d12, it does that for you.
- More important, it gives you the option to include additional damage dice (you know, like sneak attack or flaming weapon)
- Best of all, it even does Power Attack.

13. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Vladislav
Just wanted to say there's already something way better out there.
- You don't have to strain your brain and calculate the average of 1d12, it does that for you.
- More important, it gives you the option to include additional damage dice (you know, like sneak attack or flaming weapon)
- Best of all, it even does Power Attack.
I'll check that out later (can't get to it from work).

Does it actually calculate your average damage over time, including misses, target AC, etc? Because if not it's not really doing the same thing as what this was intended for.

14. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Typewriter
Does it actually calculate your average damage over time, including misses, target AC, etc? Because if not it's not really doing the same thing as what this was intended for.
It calculates average damage per round (with different amounts of PA) against given AC, yes.

15. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Greenish
It calculates average damage per round (with different amounts of PA) against given AC, yes.
Awesome. I can't believe I never knew that existed.

16. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Typewriter
Awesome. I can't believe I never knew that existed.
Have you ever played a melee with PA? Did you have to think about how much you'd PA for?

…Did you think you were alone in that respect?

17. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Greenish
Have you ever played a melee with PA? Did you have to think about how much you'd PA for?

…Did you think you were alone in that respect?
I never really had to think about it before, and I especially never thought about the average damage it would do over a lifetime of combat.

I built this actually due to a conversation about sword/board warriors against two-handed warriors at varying levels.

18. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

It's really good. Will start using it from now on!

19. ## Re: Truly Average Damage

Originally Posted by Typewriter
I built this actually due to a conversation about sword/board warriors against two-handed warriors at varying levels.
Speaking of which, I once saw a statistical breakdown of average damage over 10 rounds for one-handed vs. two-handed vs. TWF. Quite interesting; it covered different Strength scores, to-hits and weapons. In fact, I think it was some guy's Mathematical Statistics thesis.

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