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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Truly Average Damage

    So, a while ago I made a spreadsheet that uses to-hit bonus, target AC, average damage, critical threat, and critical multiplier to determine what your average damage *per swing* is.

    In other words everything from 1-20, including what happens if you crit.

    I finally checked out Google docs, so now I can share this with the world!

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...CJXhgZwI#gid=0

    Go ahead and download this and add in the five six numbers:

    To-Hit: Fairly simple - this is your total to-hit bonus after all modifiers.
    Target AC: Again, rather simple. The AC your to-hit is going against
    Average Damage: A bit tricky to determine*, but make sure to include all bonuses
    Crit Threat: This is where you begin to threaten. If your crit range is 17-20 put a 17 in this field.
    Crit Multiplier: 2 for x2, 3 for x3, etc. etc.
    Miss chance: Blur = 20, displacement = 50

    *I think most people know how this works, but for those who don't.
    D2 averages to 1.5
    D3 averages to 2
    D4 averages to 2.5
    D6 averages to 3.5
    D8 averages to 4.5
    D10 averages to 5.5
    D12 averages to 6.5
    D20 averages to 10.5
    + all bonuses

    Again, this is not your average damage per hit, it is over the lifetime of swings against a target, what your average damage *per swing* will wind up being.
    Last edited by Typewriter; 2011-06-21 at 08:50 AM.

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    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Maybe add a field for miss chance % for things like Concealment or Displacement? The math should be easy (just multiply the final damage by 1-miss%).
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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Gasp! No average for d2s and d3s?!

    You sicken me.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Maybe add a field for miss chance % for things like Concealment or Displacement? The math should be easy (just multiply the final damage by 1-miss%).
    Yeah, that would probably be pretty easy. I think you're right - you could just reduce the final amount by the miss %

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    Gasp! No average for d2s and d3s?!

    You sicken me.


    You know... I knew someone was going to say that if I didn't include it...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Average monster AC: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=5

    I like to use CR = PC level - 2 b/c 4 of those monsters is an EL PC level + 2 encounter, which is considered difficult but not overwhelming.

    Of minor importance on ridiculous crit builds is to remember that you don't threaten a crit if you don't hit, and thus you must remember to reduce your effective crit range against higher AC monsters... or the OP could adjust the spreadsheet to do that for you.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-06-20 at 08:14 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Average monster AC: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=5

    I like to use CR = PC level - 2 b/c 4 of those monsters is an EL PC level + 2 encounter, which is considered difficult but not overwhelming.

    Of minor importance on ridiculous crit builds is to remember that you don't threaten a crit if you don't hit, and thus you must remember to reduce your effective crit range against higher AC monsters... or the OP could adjust the spreadsheet to do that for you.
    It already checks for that. Let's say you only hit on a 18, but 15+ is your crit range - if you put a 15 in for critical threat it will only start to work at 18.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    So this will be similar to the DPR calculators used by 4e boards sounds good.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    So this will be similar to the DPR calculators used by 4e boards sounds good.
    There's a what now?

    And I have miss chance working now :P

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Typewriter View Post
    There's a what now?

    And I have miss chance working now :P
    DPR = Damage Per Round.

    Comes from MMORPG terminology, DPS (meaning Damage Per Second).

    4e fans took the "4e is like an MMO!" 'criticism' and ran with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Plus it is easy to figure out in 4e since at the start classes generally used one attack power in a round and the typical defense math is spelled out in the DMG so calculations are actually based on official math rather than in 3e which we can only do averages. This made calculations for determining your average damage over time easy to compute. Even today they still call it DPR even though often times it is being used to show damage per attack.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Ahh, yeah that makes sense.

    I just think it makes for an interesting exercise in thinking.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Just wanted to say there's already something way better out there.
    - You don't have to strain your brain and calculate the average of 1d12, it does that for you.
    - More important, it gives you the option to include additional damage dice (you know, like sneak attack or flaming weapon)
    - Best of all, it even does Power Attack.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladislav View Post
    Just wanted to say there's already something way better out there.
    - You don't have to strain your brain and calculate the average of 1d12, it does that for you.
    - More important, it gives you the option to include additional damage dice (you know, like sneak attack or flaming weapon)
    - Best of all, it even does Power Attack.
    I'll check that out later (can't get to it from work).

    Does it actually calculate your average damage over time, including misses, target AC, etc? Because if not it's not really doing the same thing as what this was intended for.

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    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Typewriter View Post
    Does it actually calculate your average damage over time, including misses, target AC, etc? Because if not it's not really doing the same thing as what this was intended for.
    It calculates average damage per round (with different amounts of PA) against given AC, yes.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    It calculates average damage per round (with different amounts of PA) against given AC, yes.
    Awesome. I can't believe I never knew that existed.

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Typewriter View Post
    Awesome. I can't believe I never knew that existed.
    Have you ever played a melee with PA? Did you have to think about how much you'd PA for?

    …Did you think you were alone in that respect?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
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    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Have you ever played a melee with PA? Did you have to think about how much you'd PA for?

    …Did you think you were alone in that respect?
    I never really had to think about it before, and I especially never thought about the average damage it would do over a lifetime of combat.

    I built this actually due to a conversation about sword/board warriors against two-handed warriors at varying levels.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    It's really good. Will start using it from now on!

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    Default Re: Truly Average Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Typewriter View Post
    I built this actually due to a conversation about sword/board warriors against two-handed warriors at varying levels.
    Speaking of which, I once saw a statistical breakdown of average damage over 10 rounds for one-handed vs. two-handed vs. TWF. Quite interesting; it covered different Strength scores, to-hits and weapons. In fact, I think it was some guy's Mathematical Statistics thesis.
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