[ToB Setting] Warriors and Wuxia PEACH

[elliott20]

Let me just say, I LOVE the idea of the emperor being so close divine that he can actually stop up the flow of fresh water. It's got a very Fisher King kind of vibe to it and really substantiates the importance of the Emperor in very very concrete terms.

I think an interest plotline to work in there would be what happens when a
NEW source of fresh water is found. Is this tantamount to treason?

[Cieyrin]

I'm actually working on some example styles at the moment. Two are already up, Drunken Savant and Playful Phoenix Fist and I'm working on a third but struggling with a name for it. As for a good starting point for a campaign, the only W&W campaign I've run (and it wasn't known as such at the time) used Jueru as a starting point because...well it's meant to be a City of Adventure. There's tons of plot potential in the city and, in theory, an entire campaign could take place in Jueru and the surrounding area.

I'll see about a starter town or some such though, I have a couple of ideas.

As I said, so much to read! @_@ I guess I didn't get quite that far, as I was starting to get glassy eyed when I got to the base classes, the majority I wasn't familiar with besides the Blade Master. Anyways, I'll have a look at Jueru when I get that far.

I looked at Sleeping Goddess (I have it book marked actually!) and considered it for a long time but in the end it felt too supernatural. A DM going for a more supernatural campaign in W&W would likely be able to make use of it, but for the standard setting it's too supernatural to fit in. As is, Kalediscopic Dream and the other guru disciplines are about as supernatural as I think fit right with how I imagine the setting.

Also, I'll check out Dragon 318, the useful kung-fu feats list is sorely under-filled in.

On Martial Arts Masteries, I know of them and I've been tempted to use them in the past for my characters...but my worry is that it creates too much book-keeping. Assuming they stay as is, in that their benefit is determined by what feats you have, then that means there's another option that you need to keep track of, on-top of maneuvers, stances, class abilities, and feats as normal...wait, what sort of MArtial Arts Masteries are you referring to actually? Cause now that I think about it, I'm remembering two different things with very similar names and purposes. Could you clarify please?

Martial Arts Masteries are the benefit you receive for taking a number of feats and skill ranks that exemplify a specific style of combat. They're usually the equivalent of the capstone of a long feat chain but, having met the prereqs, you get the benefit automatically. I don't think it should take anymore bookkeeping than if you're trying to meet a feat or PrC's prereqs, as basically when you qualify it becomes a virtual feat for you and you can just write it down on your sheet with the benefits. Some Masteries are pretty lame, I'll admit, which is why I initially started the project to update and formalize so that new Masteries can be made fairly easily and match up in power to the most recent Mastery, which showed up in Tome of Magic of all places. If I restart the project and find all my notes and the Dragon that had additional masteries in 'em, I'll let you know, 'kay?

Also, definitely check out Complete Warrior for more martial arts feats, as many of feats in OA were updated there, though not all (Falling Star Strike, I'm looking at you...). Things like Karmic Strike, Defensive Throw, Weakening Touch, Freezing the Lifeblood, etc. all work pretty well for different Hard and Soft Martial Arts. Oh, also check out Sword and Fist, too, for some more obscure martial arts type feats, like Mantis Leap. Again, several got updated in CW but not all.

EDIT: Oh, one final thing: when I was reading through Dancer, I noticed a discrepancy in the action type for activating Bardic Dance. I talked to the creator and he confirmed it should be a swift action to activate, so if you'd like to add that errata for others, that'd be cool, since, well, he can't do that in these forums anymore...>_>;;

[Callos_DeTerran]

As I said, so much to read! @_@ I guess I didn't get quite that far, as I was starting to get glassy eyed when I got to the base classes, the majority I wasn't familiar with besides the Blade Master. Anyways, I'll have a look at Jueru when I get that far.

Well I haven't had TOO much depth put into Jueru depth, I left it very general, so a smaller village that can be fleshed out better might be better anyway.

Martial Arts Masteries are the benefit you receive for taking a number of feats and skill ranks that exemplify a specific style of combat. They're usually the equivalent of the capstone of a long feat chain but, having met the prereqs, you get the benefit automatically. I don't think it should take anymore bookkeeping than if you're trying to meet a feat or PrC's prereqs, as basically when you qualify it becomes a virtual feat for you and you can just write it down on your sheet with the benefits. Some Masteries are pretty lame, I'll admit, which is why I initially started the project to update and formalize so that new Masteries can be made fairly easily and match up in power to the most recent Mastery, which showed up in Tome of Magic of all places. If I restart the project and find all my notes and the Dragon that had additional masteries in 'em, I'll let you know, 'kay?

Okay, we were thinking of the same thing then, good to know! I tell you what, if you restart the project and find all the notes and such then I'll happily take a look at them. I suppose one benefit to that system is that you don't just have to count feats and skill ranks, but you could also have the Martial Arts Masteries check which stances or maneuvers are known as well.

Also, definitely check out Complete Warrior for more martial arts feats, as many of feats in OA were updated there, though not all (Falling Star Strike, I'm looking at you...). Things like Karmic Strike, Defensive Throw, Weakening Touch, Freezing the Lifeblood, etc. all work pretty well for different Hard and Soft Martial Arts. Oh, also check out Sword and Fist, too, for some more obscure martial arts type feats, like Mantis Leap. Again, several got updated in CW but not all.

Regrettably, I haven't had much time to look for new feats to add to that list. I'll try to find some free time to do as much though.

EDIT: Oh, one final thing: when I was reading through Dancer, I noticed a discrepancy in the action type for activating Bardic Dance. I talked to the creator and he confirmed it should be a swift action to activate, so if you'd like to add that errata for others, that'd be cool, since, well, he can't do that in these forums anymore...>_>;;

Ermm..yeah, I should probably errata that.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think you should take out the penalties for legacy items. Honestly, nobody likes legacy items.

[Cieyrin]

I think you should take out the penalties for legacy items. Honestly, nobody likes legacy items.

Not true, it's not the items that people disapprove of, it's the costs that get exacted. Serpentine's solution is to replace the costs with roleplaying requirements, which I think works fairly well, even if it's kinda White Wolf. It works for Vestiges, so why not?

I rather like the Sling of the Dire Wind, Shishi-O and the Simple Bow, so let's not be making the broad statements of how nobody likes Weapons of Legacy, eh? Let's leave that for Complete Psionic.

Oh, also, on a different note, Callos, is Mystic Cobra going to be an included discipline or were you gonna stick with Silver Crane? While a nifty discipline, it gives a good bent to Soheis, who aren't all necessarily good as written. I think there are other polearm disciplines out there to select, though the one I'm thinking of I can't for the life of me recall its name...

[DracoDei]

I think there are other polearm disciplines out there to select, though the one I'm thinking of I can't for the life of me recall its name...

Piercing Point. See link in one of my earlier posts.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Not true, it's not the items that people disapprove of, it's the costs that get exacted. Serpentine's solution is to replace the costs with roleplaying requirements, which I think works fairly well, even if it's kinda White Wolf. It works for Vestiges, so why not?

I rather like the Sling of the Dire Wind, Shishi-O and the Simple Bow, so let's not be making the broad statements of how nobody likes Weapons of Legacy, eh? Let's leave that for Complete Psionic.

Okay then, nobody likes that you both have to spend gold and get penalties that aren't XP costs.

[Cieyrin]

Piercing Point. See link in one of my earlier posts.

Nah, it was something else, I'm fairly sure, but Age of Warriors isn't listing it or at least a name isn't popping out at me. I'm checking the Libram of Battle now to see if it's possibly there. Otherwise, I have no idea...

[Terazul]

Okay then, nobody likes that you both have to spend gold and get penalties that aren't XP costs.

Well honestly, the penalties aren't that bad if you're smart about which table you pick. But for those who felt it was too much, in our group we commonly translated the penalties into a flat 10% XP cost. ...Which many would overwrite with a Item Familiar 10% bonus.

Gold-wise though, you have either got to be kidding at me or never have looked at the things.

Consider by 20th level you could get say, an effective +8 Weapon that also gives +5 to two skills and initiative, Immune to Disarm, can be called from 30 ft if you somehow don't have it, You can never be flat-footed as long as it is on your person, gives you Frightful Presence and also Pounce, for only 58,435 GP. And that's not even a well-built one.

A +8 weapon alone would normally cost you 128,000 GP, and that's not including all the extra features or the fact that they're crammed into one slot. Even with penalties, the things are literally a steal.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well honestly, the penalties aren't that bad if you're smart about which table you pick. But for those who felt it was too much, in our group we commonly translated the penalties into a flat 10% XP cost. ...Which many would overwrite with a Item Familiar 10% bonus.

Gold-wise though, you have either got to be kidding at me or never have looked at the things.

Consider by 20th level you could get say, an effective +8 Weapon that also gives +5 to two skills and initiative, Immune to Disarm, can be called from 30 ft if you somehow don't have it, You can never be flat-footed as long as it is on your person, gives you Frightful Presence and also Pounce, for only 58,435 GP. And that's not even a well-built one.

A +8 weapon alone would normally cost you 128,000 GP, and that's not including all the extra features or the fact that they're crammed into one slot. Even with penalties, the things are literally a steal.

I looked through the nine swords, and they are far weaker than that.

Eventide's Edge only gets you a +5 weapon with a +4 on special combat maneuvers, +2d6 damage against large creatures, the baffling defense maneuver or a small bonus to it, the ability to automatically succeed on it 3/day, and the ability to use greater invisibility for 10 rounds twice per day. The price is 52,150 GP, -2 to attacks, -4 to fortitude saves, and -12 HP.

Tiger claw gives you a +1 weapon with 15-20/x4 crit, a pseudo-charge 1/day, can't be disarmed of it, +5 on jump, 1d8 swift action healing 3/day, haste with one round duration 5/day, and +4 to confirm crits. Sure it's great for dealing devastating damage, but it's a +1 weapon with -2 on attack rolls, so you aren't going to hit as often as the guy who had the +5 weapon (almost 1/3 less, actually), and there are crit immune guys like golems and guys with fortification armor.

[Prime32]

Something else I meant to link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168817

[ErrantX]

Nah, it was something else, I'm fairly sure, but Age of Warriors isn't listing it or at least a name isn't popping out at me. I'm checking the Libram of Battle now to see if it's possibly there. Otherwise, I have no idea...

We've got a quasi-alpha of a mounted combat/spear wielding discipline called Piercing Lance there; but I don't feel its complete.

-X

[Terazul]

I looked through the nine swords, and they are far weaker than that.

Eventide's Edge only gets you a +5 weapon with a +4 on special combat maneuvers, +2d6 damage against large creatures, the baffling defense maneuver or a small bonus to it, the ability to automatically succeed on it 3/day, and the ability to use greater invisibility for 10 rounds twice per day. The price is 52,150 GP, -2 to attacks, -4 to fortitude saves, and -12 HP.

Tiger claw gives you a +1 weapon with 15-20/x4 crit, a pseudo-charge 1/day, can't be disarmed of it, +5 on jump, 1d8 swift action healing 3/day, haste with one round duration 5/day, and +4 to confirm crits. Sure it's great for dealing devastating damage, but it's a +1 weapon with -2 on attack rolls, so you aren't going to hit as often as the guy who had the +5 weapon (almost 1/3 less, actually), and there are crit immune guys like golems and guys with fortification armor.

Ahh. Fair enough, I'm getting my threads a little mixed up since I'm also discussing WoL somewhere else on the forum . Most as-printed Weapons of Legacy are pretty lackluster, yes. They could use a thorough rebuilding from the ground up.

[Cieyrin]

I looked through the nine swords, and they are far weaker than that.

Eventide's Edge only gets you a +5 weapon with a +4 on special combat maneuvers, +2d6 damage against large creatures, the baffling defense maneuver or a small bonus to it, the ability to automatically succeed on it 3/day, and the ability to use greater invisibility for 10 rounds twice per day. The price is 52,150 GP, -2 to attacks, -4 to fortitude saves, and -12 HP.

Tiger claw gives you a +1 weapon with 15-20/x4 crit, a pseudo-charge 1/day, can't be disarmed of it, +5 on jump, 1d8 swift action healing 3/day, haste with one round duration 5/day, and +4 to confirm crits. Sure it's great for dealing devastating damage, but it's a +1 weapon with -2 on attack rolls, so you aren't going to hit as often as the guy who had the +5 weapon (almost 1/3 less, actually), and there are crit immune guys like golems and guys with fortification armor.

Like it being +1 matters that much, Greater Magic Weapon solves that just fine. There are exactly 2 reasons you'd want a higher enhancement bonus: 1) If you're after Greater Augment Crystals and putting 'em on your weapon or 2) you actually really need those bonuses to hit, which shouldn't be necessary for Full BABers but may be for Average BABers like swordsages and rogues. Pathfinder throws in a third for a well hidden rule about high enhancement bonus weapons piercing more DR the higher the bonus but that's something else entirely.

We've got a quasi-alpha of a mounted combat/spear wielding discipline called Piercing Lance there; but I don't feel its complete.

-X

Yeah, I don't think that was what I was thinking of, either. I think I may have confused Cthonic (sp?) Serpent as a polearm instead of a whips and chains discipline. Oh well...

EDIT: One final thing before I call it a night. It may be worth looking at Endarire's Stone Dragon Redux, though it maybe best to have it as an optional rule: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191693

[gkathellar]

You should check out the sublime classes and other material here. Some of it is pretty critical, in my opinion.

Something else I meant to link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168817

I'll second these, they're great, but they're also unfinished, and since it looks like Xefas works pretty much exclusively on Exalted now, I doubt they'll end up finished.

EDIT: One final thing before I call it a night. It may be worth looking at Endarire's Stone Dragon Redux, though it maybe best to have it as an optional rule: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191693

I'll also second this. This Stone Dragon is much more interesting, and has none of the problems of the original.

[Callos_DeTerran]

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Let me just say, I LOVE the idea of the emperor being so close divine that he can actually stop up the flow of fresh water. It's got a very Fisher King kind of vibe to it and really substantiates the importance of the Emperor in very very concrete terms.

I think an interest plotline to work in there would be what happens when a
NEW source of fresh water is found. Is this tantamount to treason?

Actually, and this will be emphasized in later fluff material, there's going to be some debate on if the Emperor really is divine (and that's how he controls the water) or if it's just machinery or something else equally mundane. One of the over-riding themes is 'does the supernatural exist'? Which supernatural martial arts hint at, but don't give a definitive answer. There's legends and stories about monsters and demons that pre-date the empire, but such creatures haven't been found in the current date and age, so did they ever exist? So on and so forth. I am also going to leave it up to the individual DM about the truth of the Emperor's divine mandate.

I think you should take out the penalties for legacy items. Honestly, nobody likes legacy items.

See below. I actually quite like Legacy items, as they are even, and used one briefly in a play-by-post game.

Spoiler

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Not true, it's not the items that people disapprove of, it's the costs that get exacted. Serpentine's solution is to replace the costs with roleplaying requirements, which I think works fairly well, even if it's kinda White Wolf. It works for Vestiges, so why not?

As hinted above, and as weird as it sounds, I'm actually a big fan of Weapons of Legacy as they are written. That's not to say Serpentine's fix isn't a good idea, it is! Legacy Weapons need some kind of drawback, role-playing or mechanical. I'd leave it up to the DM, if only because I got enough on my plate right now that I can't come up with role-play requirements for every already-made Weapon of Legacy or a table suggesting one. If someone wants to take a crack at it, I'll helpfully give my advice but that's all I can manage at the moment.

Spoiler

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Oh, also, on a different note, Callos, is Mystic Cobra going to be an included discipline or were you gonna stick with Silver Crane? While a nifty discipline, it gives a good bent to Soheis, who aren't all necessarily good as written. I think there are other polearm disciplines out there to select, though the one I'm thinking of I can't for the life of me recall its name...

It is, I just haven't gotten around to including it on the discipline list yet cause I haven't had a good chance to sit down and really take a good hard look at it yet. It's worth pointing out though, that no discipline restricts it's user to using that discipline's preferred weapons. There's certainly bonuses (in some cases) for doing so, but it's never required.

Spoiler

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Well honestly, the penalties aren't that bad if you're smart about which table you pick. But for those who felt it was too much, in our group we commonly translated the penalties into a flat 10% XP cost. ...Which many would overwrite with a Item Familiar 10% bonus.

Gold-wise though, you have either got to be kidding at me or never have looked at the things.

Consider by 20th level you could get say, an effective +8 Weapon that also gives +5 to two skills and initiative, Immune to Disarm, can be called from 30 ft if you somehow don't have it, You can never be flat-footed as long as it is on your person, gives you Frightful Presence and also Pounce, for only 58,435 GP. And that's not even a well-built one.

A +8 weapon alone would normally cost you 128,000 GP, and that's not including all the extra features or the fact that they're crammed into one slot. Even with penalties, the things are literally a steal.

This, essentially. The ones in Weapons of Legacy and ToB may be a little lack-luster mechanically, but one that is built right can give you awesome bonuses and be a great tool for role-playing, which is why W&W is meant to include Legacy weapons and encourages PCs to found their own Legacies.

Something else I meant to link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168817

Ohhh, those are quite intriguing actually. I'm not sure how well they can transport over to W&W based on two things though.

Xefas seems to be using 'balanced against casters' as his measuring stick for how powerful to make the feats which, again, there are no casters. It makes some of his design choices a little dubious.

Second, they aren't finished. This isn't a huge critique mind, but those feats doesn't even cover all of the WotC ToB disciplines, let alone all of the homebrew ones here. If someone wants to continue that project though, I'll gladly look at adding them into W&W cause they look like fun!

You should check out the sublime classes and other material here. Some of it is pretty critical, in my opinion.

I'm...not entirely certain what you want me to look at. All of it? Only some of it? How he designed it? I'll admit the Wildheart looks very cool and I'm already thinking about how best to add it into the setting to fill a crucial niche.

I'll also second this. This Stone Dragon is much more interesting, and has none of the problems of the original.

Half of Stone Dragon's 'problems' are resolved by W&W simply not being your standard D&D setting. Being on solid ground (which is why my DMs, and myself, have always ruled it as, not just natural ground) is hardly an impediment when very few people are capable of true flight. I will admit that DM's should seriously consider removing the 'may only move 5-feet per round' clause from some Stone Dragon maneuvers because it just doesn't make sense for them but does for others. Aside from that though...I've never seen a problem with Stone Dragon, it has a great utility appeal to it, especially in a setting where armor equals DR and allows martial adepts to replicate some 'tried and true' wuxia tropes like punching through stone and the like. There's also a reason it's the only discipline available to EVERY class, it lacks a specific kind of flare that other's have. I'll include the link under optional though.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Half of Stone Dragon's 'problems' are resolved by W&W simply not being your standard D&D setting. Being on solid ground (which is why my DMs, and myself, have always ruled it as, not just natural ground) is hardly an impediment when very few people are capable of true flight. I will admit that DM's should seriously consider removing the 'may only move 5-feet per round' clause from some Stone Dragon maneuvers because it just doesn't make sense for them but does for others. Aside from that though...I've never seen a problem with Stone Dragon, it has a great utility appeal to it, especially in a setting where armor equals DR and allows martial adepts to replicate some 'tried and true' wuxia tropes like punching through stone and the like. There's also a reason it's the only discipline available to EVERY class, it lacks a specific kind of flare that other's have. I'll include the link under optional though.

Have you seen the X bones maneuvers? Or the ones that allow a fortitude save?

[Cieyrin]

Have you seen the X bones maneuvers? Or the ones that allow a fortitude save?

Stone Bones works fine at the level you get it at. The later Bones perhaps not so much. I also don't see a problem with the saves, as they're Strength-based, something that's fairly easy to pump even in W&W's low magic setting (Put a high score in it, found a legacy that gives Strength bonus, Blade Meditation, Guru, etc.). It uses the same formula that spells do and it seems like W&W will be mostly humans, so unless there's a large amount of multiclassing or people picking up Great Fortitude, I'm not seeing the major issue for our purposes.

[Callos_DeTerran]

What Cieyrin said, essentially. It's been said but it bears repeating that this is not a typical D&D setting. You can't just go and buy cloaks of resistance or rings of protection (or cast their spell equivalents) to boost your saves or AC, you'd have to get class features/feats/maneuvers/stances/counters that do those things. And if you're using up 3+ maneuvers on Diamond Mind's 'replace saves with Concentration checks) maneuvers or ones that boost AC and whatnot, then you're using resources for that cause that could be used for attacking, and vice versa. Someone who spends all their maneuvers on offense and attack won't have any to defend themselves which is just as important when things like magical healing and resurrection aren't around.

It's a key fact to keep in mind.

Also, in the course of creating more diverse equipment, I figured that using special materials is a good route. Does anyone know any good 'mythic' metals of eastern origin beyond 'star-metal'?

[Edge]

Also, in the course of creating more diverse equipment, I figured that using special materials is a good route. Does anyone know any good 'mythic' metals of eastern origin beyond 'star-metal'?

Damascus steel isn't far enough East for what you're thinking of, but maybe having something similar be imported from a mysterious nation far to the West of the Empire?

Interesting setting you've got here, Callos. Consider my interest piqued, if not captured.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Damascus steel isn't far enough East for what you're thinking of, but maybe having something similar be imported from a mysterious nation far to the West of the Empire?

Interesting setting you've got here, Callos. Consider my interest piqued, if not captured.

Thanks for the idea, it'd certainly make for at least one possible material. And I hope you like what you see, or even contribute Edge!


Calling all readers: I'm starting a collection of example NPCs in the setting, whom I'm also going to weave into W&W's history and fluff. So if you have an NPC idea you want to pitch, then just let it fly!

[Burnheart]

This looks awesome and something i'd definitely want to play in well done I'd like to see a gun toting swashbuckler who is a pirate captain but thats just me

[gkathellar]

Also, in the course of creating more diverse equipment, I figured that using special materials is a good route. Does anyone know any good 'mythic' metals of eastern origin beyond 'star-metal'?

If I'm recalling my Journey to the West correctly, golden armaments aren't out of the question — I think it and jade are supposed to lack an elemental nature. Jade, of course, is awesome, so I would go with that.

Otherwise ... pearl. Lustrous suits of pearl armor and gleaming pearl swords would be pretty great, and they have the right image to boot. And silver, possibly? The Chinese placed an extraordinarily high value on silver, to the point that silk road traders could make a profit by exploiting the exchange rates for gold and silver at either end of the trade route.

Still, I'd not stress out over cool materials too much. East-Asian cultures generally assumed a great sword was the result of its sometimes-divine-smith, not its metal content (especially in Japan, where the metal wasn't very good). There's also a tremendous focus on the value of antiquity in these cultures — anything worth doing is something the ancients did, so the greatest smiths are long-dead and their forging techniques have been lost.

[Cieyrin]

Also, in the course of creating more diverse equipment, I figured that using special materials is a good route. Does anyone know any good 'mythic' metals of eastern origin beyond 'star-metal'?

Do you just mean metals or would you be conducive to other materials, like minerals and woods? There are a good many martial arts weapons that use wood, which is why I ask. I could see Dark and Bronze Wood being of interest. Mineral-wise, I've always been partial to Obsidian. A lot of materials are planar fantastical but I could see refluffing them for the setting, like Ysgardian Heartwire, Baatorian Green Steel and Gehennan Morghuth Iron. Green Steel could become Jade Steel and Gehennan Iron could become Bleeding Iron.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Also, in the course of creating more diverse equipment, I figured that using special materials is a good route. Does anyone know any good 'mythic' metals of eastern origin beyond 'star-metal'?

Adamantine comes from fallen stars, according to PF (maybe 3.5 too, it's a shame the SRD doesn't include fluff) and if you're willing to take from books, Redwall too (in Mossflower, lord Boar forged Martin's sword from super hard metal that came from a meteor).

[DracoDei]

Just occurred to me...
Have you looked at my Sublime Form Master and/or True Master of Nine? They are pretty fluff-free, so should adapt to any setting well.

[Prime32]

For special materials, I would suggest iron from spiritually active regions which counts as ghost touch. Maybe a quarterstaff made from a tree that grew at the scene of a massacre would count as evil.

What Cieyrin said, essentially. It's been said but it bears repeating that this is not a typical D&D setting. You can't just go and buy cloaks of resistance or rings of protection (or cast their spell equivalents) to boost your saves or AC, you'd have to get class features/feats/maneuvers/stances/counters that do those things.

Well those maneuvers stack with the effects of the items, and boosting yourself from poor to mediocre isn't as worth it as mediocre to good. When you fight monsters (fluffed as burly humans?) who don't rely so much on items you'll end up below par.

I'd suggest the following:
+1 bonus to all ability scores per 4 levels (push the normal ability increases back so they start at lv2 rather than lv4)
+1 bonus to skill checks per 3 levels
+1 bonus to saves per 4 levels (AC is covered by defence bonus)
Any weapons you use become +1 per 4 levels, including natural weapons (otherwise DR/magic becomes the most powerful DR despite being the cheapest)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Well those maneuvers stack with the effects of the items, and boosting yourself from poor to mediocre isn't as worth it as mediocre to good. When you fight monsters (fluffed as burly humans?) who don't rely so much on items you'll end up below par.

I'd suggest the following:
+1 bonus to all ability scores per 4 levels (push the normal ability increases back so they start at lv2 rather than lv4)
+1 bonus to skill checks per 3 levels
+1 bonus to saves per 4 levels (AC is covered by defence bonus)
Any weapons you use become +1 per 4 levels, including natural weapons (otherwise DR/magic becomes the most powerful DR despite being the cheapest)

What monsters? I mean, a DM could very well decide to add monsters or refluff monsters as exceptional humans but that's the exception not the rule, the standard assumption for W&W is that your primary opponents are other human beings or dangerous animals. Legendary animals might appear now and then, but without magic items and no literal monsters, you don't need to be buffed to the extreme and back just to keep up. You need to keep up with other martial artists of a similar level (which relies on their maneuvers and whatnot more then equipment, and even then most NPCs are built with NPC wealth by level, not PC wealth by level which will put them behind PCs), hordes of mooks, or the occasional violent wild animal/legendary animal, not aberrations, dragons, outsiders, elementals, constructs, undead, etc. which don't exist for the large part.

I'll have to check again, but I don't believe many (if any) maneuvers give DR/magic (Stone Dragon gives DR/adamantine I know) and the most common DR well actually be from armor which can't be bypassed (except by Stone Dragon) anyway.

[gkathellar]

Huh ... this just occurred to me: what if learning maneuvers is what gives you most of the bonuses you would normally get from items?

Each discipline could have a set of associated bonuses, where if you knew X number of maneuvers from the discipline you would receive X scaling, passive bonuses. A character really specialized in one discipline will have some really standout stats and some mediocre ones, while flirting with a whole group of disciplines will give you a better-rounded bonus set.

Of course, pretty much everything would pump attack and AC, and then one or two saves. I'm not sure that this should provide anything other than numbers, though, since that may step too much on the territory of stances. But as far as numbers go, I think this would be a cool way to get them in there.

This also fits with the idea of self-cultivation and gongfu so key to Chinese martial arts: what you learn doesn't just change what you can do, but also fundamentally changes who you are.

[Cieyrin]

Huh ... this just occurred to me: what if learning maneuvers is what gives you most of the bonuses you would normally get from items?

Each discipline could have a set of associated bonuses, where if you knew X number of maneuvers from the discipline you would receive X scaling, passive bonuses. A character really specialized in one discipline will have some really standout stats and some mediocre ones, while flirting with a whole group of disciplines will give you a better-rounded bonus set.

Of course, pretty much everything would pump attack and AC, and then one or two saves. I'm not sure that this should provide anything other than numbers, though, since that may step too much on the territory of stances. But as far as numbers go, I think this would be a cool way to get them in there.

This also fits with the idea of self-cultivation and gongfu so key to Chinese martial arts: what you learn doesn't just change what you can do, but also fundamentally changes who you are.

What you're describing is kind of what the Blademaster class does, though you only get the one discipline when you enter Blademaster that you focus on.